22 games under head coach Mike Pettine
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That all sounds good and positive, but in the end, the browns aren't good enough to win games, and no amount of positive spin can argue the score board or the win-loss total........ 2-9 over our last 11 games with these players on the field, and who is responsible for the talent on the field?
Again, I'm a very realistic fan. I don't claim we're going to the Super Bowl when we win, and I don't cry 'blow it all up' when we lose. I'm not calling for Farmer's head, but I also know enough to understand that his seat is getting warmer and warmer with every off the field headline our backup QB makes, every game that Blowe is inactive and every game we lose.............. The bottom line is that we are not winning, and no, close does not count.
O'Neil is far more responsible for the losses than the talent on the field IMO. If Farmer's seat is hot, his is on fire.
It doesn't take 2 years to turn a perrenial loser into a winner.
It doesn't take 2 years to turn a perrenial loser into a winner.
uh, that's a joke right?
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That all sounds good and positive, but in the end, the browns aren't good enough to win games, and no amount of positive spin can argue the score board or the win-loss total........ 2-9 over our last 11 games with these players on the field, and who is responsible for the talent on the field?
Again, I'm a very realistic fan. I don't claim we're going to the Super Bowl when we win, and I don't cry 'blow it all up' when we lose. I'm not calling for Farmer's head, but I also know enough to understand that his seat is getting warmer and warmer with every off the field headline our backup QB makes, every game that Blowe is inactive and every game we lose.............. The bottom line is that we are not winning, and no, close does not count.
O'Neil is far more responsible for the losses than the talent on the field IMO. If Farmer's seat is hot, his is on fire.
It doesn't take 2 years to turn a perrenial loser into a winner.
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Really happy with the offense being top 10 with a bunch of scrubs and has beens at playmaker positions. My evaluation is gonna rest with pettines ability to progress this defense by the end of the year. We were supposed to run the football and stop the run and we can't do either in epic fashion. Progression is important for Mike.
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Pettine makes the decision on O'Neil. Pettine was fired by his best friend Rex Ryan. Does Pettine have the Nads to do it to his friend O'Neil or he's the best for the job for now? Farmer with Trade deadline looming Nov. 3. Does he have a package deal that may help on this Defense? Tick Tock.. our trading block list is growing weekly imo. but who's the return is the ???'s Can we give Farmer a little love for signing Andy Lee? Pettine a little love on Pryor not signed anywhere & a nobody in Travis Coons? Mc Cown not a bad idea either over Hoyer?
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Pettine makes the decision on O'Neil. Pettine was fired by his best friend Rex Ryan. Does Pettine have the Nads to do it to his friend O'Neil or he's the best for the job for now? Farmer with Trade deadline looming Nov. 3. Does he have a package deal that may help on this Defense? Tick Tock.. our trading block list is growing weekly imo. but who's the return is the ???'s Can we give Farmer a little love for signing Andy Lee? Pettine a little love on Pryor not signed anywhere & a nobody in Travis Coons? Mc Cown not a bad idea either over Hoyer?
Can we give Farmer a little love for signing Andy Lee? Pettine a little love on Pryor not signed anywhere & a nobody in Travis Coons? Mc Cown not a bad idea either over Hoyer?
Yep, all good things there gumby, but his 1st rounds can't be ignored, especially when he's had back2back double picks in the 1st..... That's like 4yrs of 1st round picks. Hopefully he's a genius and I'm a moron (DieHardDickHead should run wild with that one) but only time will tell.
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I noted in the thread where Filbin got canned that the number one intangible quality a coach can have is being a leader of men. I know it sounds macho and cliche, but in the NFL the head coach is someone players are willing to go to war for. Pettine has this, at least IMO. I don't doubt the guys are playing hard out there and it can't be understated.
With that being said, he still makes some peculiar decisions that have a major impact on the game and needs to can his friend O'Neil in a hurry.
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If I had to choose between Pettine and Farmer, id keep the latter.
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Can we give Farmer a little love for signing Andy Lee? Pettine a little love on Pryor not signed anywhere & a nobody in Travis Coons? Mc Cown not a bad idea either over Hoyer?
Yep, all good things there gumby, but his 1st rounds can't be ignored, especially when he's had back2back double picks in the 1st..... That's like 4yrs of 1st round picks. Hopefully he's a genius and I'm a moron (DieHardDickHead should run wild with that one) but only time will tell.
Yep, all good things there gumby, but his 1st rounds can't be ignored, especially when he's had back2back double picks in the 1st..... That's like 4yrs of 1st round picks. Hopefully he's a genius and I'm a moron (DieHardDickHead should run wild with that one) but only time will tell.
1 owns the grocery's. 1 buys the grocery's. 1 coaches the grocery's. Never mix the 3 but damn get somebody good to scout the grocery's. That's on Jimmy & Farmer. (& a little parcells)
Browns & Buffett: Got to go fishin, Down to rock bottom again, with just a few Friends -
Close doesn't cut it, but I like the competitiveness I see with the team. We seem to hang in there even with the best teams. I honestly thought Denver would blow us out. We just have to take better advantage of opportunities.
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I'm not sure what to do, or if we're really showing that much improvement. I realize I'm still quite pissed about the recent heart breaking loss, but it just feels like the same crap, every year. Until we figure out how to CONSISTENTLY win close games, make the plays when we need them, and start stringing together 3 and 4 game winning streaks, we'll just forever stink. When we tied it up at the end of the game instead of getting into the endzone...I had a sinking feeling. We probably all did. Do you think Aaron Rodgers kicks a FG there? (his team, not him) Tom Brady? Big Ben?
Have we improved? Yeah, probably. But let's just say the bar wasn't set too high, ok? What concerns me more than anything is we have a defensive minded coach that can't seem to create a dominate defense. Heck, how about a DECENT defense? We've given a ton of resources to the defensive side of the ball, and we aren't really seeing it pay off. Can't stop the run, can't hit the quarterback. Oh, and our coach has the worst time management I've ever seen.
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And the teams record during that time is 9-13 or 0.409 in other NFL speak.
Thought I'd then look at the two previous blocks of a 22 game span after Mangini to see how he matches up....
1) A season under Chudzinski and some Shurmur, record of 7-15 or 0.318
2) All under Pat Shurmur, the record is 4-18 or 0.181
Other than boredom at work I'm not sure why I did it but it does show 'some' improvement.
But I guess you could look at it another way if you so wish, we are a poor 2-9 over our last 11 games.
And the teams record during that time is 9-13 or 0.409 in other NFL speak.
Thought I'd then look at the two previous blocks of a 22 game span after Mangini to see how he matches up....
1) A season under Chudzinski and some Shurmur, record of 7-15 or 0.318
2) All under Pat Shurmur, the record is 4-18 or 0.181
Other than boredom at work I'm not sure why I did it but it does show 'some' improvement.
But I guess you could look at it another way if you so wish, we are a poor 2-9 over our last 11 games.
To piggyback on your thought here:
In the 22 games we've had the new staff (Farmer/Pettine)
We've been outscored 495 (22.5 points per game) to 440 (20 points per game). A difference of 55 points.
In the 22 game previous?
We were outscored 540 (24.5 points per game) to 421 (19 points per game). A difference of 119 points.
I wanted to look this up as it feels as though the team is more competitive even though the results (W/L) are similar.
The deficit has been cut in half. It's progress. It's more gradual than we probably hoped it would be, but it's progress. And I hope the team stays with it and maintains stability while the coaching staff grows and matures.
I happen to agree with most everyone, even though there is a lot of conflict here. Those who say that moral victories, that a loss is a loss and I'm beyond sick of losing? I agree. Those who say that who are more forgiving and say that we've seen a hell of a lot worse and at least the team is playing in close contests? I agree as well.
But the issue isn't that we've seen a hell of a lot worse. It's that we have NOT seen a whole hell of a lot BETTER.
I think I've just come to the resignation that when the team is as broken as this one has been, it's going to take time and patience to fix it. We're on the right track, but it's not going to happen in one season or even two. If the course is stayed, I believe 2016 and especially 2017 is where we're going to finally see a competitive Browns team. If it's blown up again? Well, I have no idea.
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The biggest problem is O'Neil. Get that scrub out of here.
His defense needs pro bowlers across the entire front 7 in order to get QB pressure. We've had much better defenses over the years with worse talent.
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I will take a ton of flak on this for sure. In my opinion you cannot judge improvement or regression of a team strictly by the number of wins and losses. Strength of schedule is a major variable in that from year to year. I will certainly say there are areas where it seems we have regressed. I think O line play as it relates to run blocking is abysmal. Our ability to put pressure on QB's is literally non existent in most games. I do think on offense we have , in Mik's terms , uncovered a couple blue chippers. Both Travis Benjamin and Gary Barnidge seem to be legit weapons to me. Adding linebackers and more talent is certainly needed but the single biggest short term need is better coaching decisions. Clock management, 4th down decisions and most recently 2pt'ers have cost us games. I wants I like this staff (minus O'neil) but they need to improve in that area quickly. The next 4 games are pretty tough but I think this team can beat any of them. It's simply going to take consistent execution by the players and coaches. The framework to win is there. I am starting to think Pettine should bring in a consultant / assistant (veteran coach) to help him learn the finer points of clock management etc.
I do think on offense we have , in Mik's terms , uncovered a couple blue chippers. Both Travis Benjamin and Gary Barnidge seem to be legit weapons to me.
Agree, but it'd be nice if we could ID players on our roster for years a little sooner.
Erving was never going to start over JT, Bitonio, Mack, Greco, and Schwartz. 3 of which are potential pro bowlers (JT, Bito, Schwartz) and one of which is solid (Greco). Mack sucks mostly so far. But remember last year when we couldn't find OL depth? I do. Erving was necessary we're just sort of fortunate we don't need him yet.
Agree on the general take about Farmer's talent spotting team, but...
It's becoming obvious we've needed Erving this year. Sure you do not replace the All-Pro Mack, but that is not who is playing Center for us this year. Were Erving as close to displacing Greco as most here thought this pre-season, then he should be our starting Center now.
If I had to choose between Pettine and Farmer, id keep the latter.
Our roads diverge on this one. Fortunately we don't have to choose.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I do think on offense we have , in Mik's terms , uncovered a couple blue chippers. Both Travis Benjamin and Gary Barnidge seem to be legit weapons to me.
Agree, but it'd be nice if we could ID players on our roster for years a little sooner.
Erving was never going to start over JT, Bitonio, Mack, Greco, and Schwartz. 3 of which are potential pro bowlers (JT, Bito, Schwartz) and one of which is solid (Greco). Mack sucks mostly so far. But remember last year when we couldn't find OL depth? I do. Erving was necessary we're just sort of fortunate we don't need him yet.
Agree on the general take about Farmer's talent spotting team, but...
It's becoming obvious we've needed Erving this year. Sure you do not replace the All-Pro Mack, but that is not who is playing Center for us this year. Were Erving as close to displacing Greco as most here thought this pre-season, then he should be our starting Center now.
If I had to choose between Pettine and Farmer, id keep the latter.
Our roads diverge on this one. Fortunately we don't have to choose.
It's becoming obvious we've needed Erving this year. Sure you do not replace the All-Pro Mack, but that is not who is playing Center for us this year. Were Erving as close to displacing Greco as most here thought this pre-season, then he should be our starting Center now.
Seems like Mack will stay in for the loyalty, contract, etc.
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But we still lost, it couldn't be A LOT worse Mik, just two games worse
3-3 is a lot better than 2-4.
But we still have a chance to sweep the AFCN
3-3 is a lot better than 2-4.
But we still have a chance to sweep the AFCN
Mr. Reality here says- in the unlikely scenario to make the playoffs this year- we have to. Browns would need to go 8-2 the rest of the way out, and frankly- I don't see it happening.
I'm not sure what to do, or if we're really showing that much improvement. I realize I'm still quite pissed about the recent heart breaking loss, but it just feels like the same crap, every year. Until we figure out how to CONSISTENTLY win close games, make the plays when we need them, and start stringing together 3 and 4 game winning streaks, we'll just forever stink. When we tied it up at the end of the game instead of getting into the endzone...I had a sinking feeling. We probably all did. Do you think Aaron Rodgers kicks a FG there? (his team, not him) Tom Brady? Big Ben?
Have we improved? Yeah, probably. But let's just say the bar wasn't set too high, ok? What concerns me more than anything is we have a defensive minded coach that can't seem to create a dominate defense. Heck, how about a DECENT defense? We've given a ton of resources to the defensive side of the ball, and we aren't really seeing it pay off. Can't stop the run, can't hit the quarterback. Oh, and our coach has the worst time management I've ever seen.
We're not there yet.
I've posted several times that the defense stinking as bad as it has is very troubling- especially since it was supposed to be a point of emphasis.
I wanted to look this up as it feels as though the team is more competitive even though the results (W/L) are similar.
The deficit has been cut in half. It's progress. It's more gradual than we probably hoped it would be, but it's progress. And I hope the team stays with it and maintains stability while the coaching staff grows and matures.
I happen to agree with most everyone, even though there is a lot of conflict here. Those who say that moral victories, that a loss is a loss and I'm beyond sick of losing? I agree. Those who say that who are more forgiving and say that we've seen a hell of a lot worse and at least the team is playing in close contests? I agree as well.
But the issue isn't that we've seen a hell of a lot worse. It's that we have NOT seen a whole hell of a lot BETTER.
I think I've just come to the resignation that when the team is as broken as this one has been, it's going to take time and patience to fix it. We're on the right track, but it's not going to happen in one season or even two. If the course is stayed, I believe 2016 and especially 2017 is where we're going to finally see a competitive Browns team. If it's blown up again? Well, I have no idea.
I suppose it's progress that we're not getting blown out- but haven't we seen teams go from worst to first in one season? Another thing to keep in mind is the Browns have stayed relatively healthy this year. If this is supposed to be our core group of players- well- it's still not good enough.
As I said earlier in this post, the playoffs are probably an unrealistic goal this year- the math & schedule don't add up. Right now- 8-8 would be progress.
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Yep, all good things there gumby, but his 1st rounds can't be ignored, especially when he's had back2back double picks in the 1st..... That's like 4yrs of 1st round picks. Hopefully he's a genius and I'm a moron (DieHardDickHead should run wild with that one) but only time will tell.
1 owns the grocery's. 1 buys the grocery's. 1 coaches the grocery's. Never mix the 3 but damn get somebody good to scout the grocery's. That's on Jimmy & Farmer. (& a little parcells)
1 owns the grocery's. 1 buys the grocery's. 1 coaches the grocery's. Never mix the 3 but damn get somebody good to scout the grocery's. That's on Jimmy & Farmer. (& a little parcells)
Farmer was sent to the 1st round store to grab 4 filet mignons, and instead he picked up a bag of Totino's Pizza Rolls, a pound of ground liver, a New York strip steak and tube of Super Glue.
The pizza rolls look good, but are immature and ooze their filling under the slightest heat and pressure. The ground liver is just awful, it stinks up the whole house and nobody wants that, except the few weirdos that grew up on it, and in their case, they really love it.
The strip steak is pretty good, but we were promised filet mignon...... and the super glue may very well come in handy someday, but that's not what he was sent to get.
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3-3 is a lot better than 2-4.
But we still have a chance to sweep the AFCN
Mr. Reality here says- in the unlikely scenario to make the playoffs this year- we have to. Browns would need to go 8-2 the rest of the way out, and frankly- I don't see it happening.
I'm not sure what to do, or if we're really showing that much improvement. I realize I'm still quite pissed about the recent heart breaking loss, but it just feels like the same crap, every year. Until we figure out how to CONSISTENTLY win close games, make the plays when we need them, and start stringing together 3 and 4 game winning streaks, we'll just forever stink. When we tied it up at the end of the game instead of getting into the endzone...I had a sinking feeling. We probably all did. Do you think Aaron Rodgers kicks a FG there? (his team, not him) Tom Brady? Big Ben?
Have we improved? Yeah, probably. But let's just say the bar wasn't set too high, ok? What concerns me more than anything is we have a defensive minded coach that can't seem to create a dominate defense. Heck, how about a DECENT defense? We've given a ton of resources to the defensive side of the ball, and we aren't really seeing it pay off. Can't stop the run, can't hit the quarterback. Oh, and our coach has the worst time management I've ever seen.
We're not there yet.
I've posted several times that the defense stinking as bad as it has is very troubling- especially since it was supposed to be a point of emphasis.
I wanted to look this up as it feels as though the team is more competitive even though the results (W/L) are similar.
The deficit has been cut in half. It's progress. It's more gradual than we probably hoped it would be, but it's progress. And I hope the team stays with it and maintains stability while the coaching staff grows and matures.
I happen to agree with most everyone, even though there is a lot of conflict here. Those who say that moral victories, that a loss is a loss and I'm beyond sick of losing? I agree. Those who say that who are more forgiving and say that we've seen a hell of a lot worse and at least the team is playing in close contests? I agree as well.
But the issue isn't that we've seen a hell of a lot worse. It's that we have NOT seen a whole hell of a lot BETTER.
I think I've just come to the resignation that when the team is as broken as this one has been, it's going to take time and patience to fix it. We're on the right track, but it's not going to happen in one season or even two. If the course is stayed, I believe 2016 and especially 2017 is where we're going to finally see a competitive Browns team. If it's blown up again? Well, I have no idea.
I suppose it's progress that we're not getting blown out- but haven't we seen teams go from worst to first in one season? Another thing to keep in mind is the Browns have stayed relatively healthy this year. If this is supposed to be our core group of players- well- it's still not good enough.
As I said earlier in this post, the playoffs are probably an unrealistic goal this year- the math & schedule don't add up. Right now- 8-8 would be progress.
Mr. Reality here says- in the unlikely scenario to make the playoffs this year- we have to. Browns would need to go 8-2 the rest of the way out, and frankly- I don't see it happening.
Well you know, if we can go 2-0 against pitt and 2-0 against BLT then It'd be an OK consolation prize.
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Farmer assembled the highest paid defense in the league AND an offense capable of being in the top 10.
When our defense completely blows, it ain't his problem. Sure, Pettine seems to have the guys motivated. That's great, I give him credit for that.
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