Crabtree at #4
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Sorry.. I meant at #5.. my fingers are not cooperating..
Crabtree at #5 is looking a whole lot different to us right now with Donte going to be officially out of football forever real soon. I don't want to rush to judgment..but 1.4.blood alch. level... his football days are over.. Crabree may be the way to go now.. I have not really belived andy of LB's or DL guys were worthy of the #5 spot anyway.. I believe crabtree is.. The guy can flat out play..
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I wouldn't mind it. The kid is a baller and god knows we are going to need help at WR with the crapshoot we got going on now. Donte is probably out of the league and who knows what the hell will happen with Braylon. That leaves us with who? Steptoe and Hubbard... yea I'd take crabtree. Plus who knows how many more picks we can get by trading w/e QB we decide to and possibly Rogers if he keeps acting like a tool b/c Mangini didn't say hi. I hear a lot about lb's and de's being deep in this draft so I'd be open for this if we keep adding picks by trading more players.
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When you are picking #5 you need to get a difference maker. You have to come away with an impact player. Crabtree is a difference maker. He is an impact player.
You can't take a #5 pick and spend it on a DE you need to convert to OLB.
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Wait... what happened to Stallworth?
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When you are picking #5 you need to get a difference maker. You have to come away with an impact player. Crabtree is a difference maker. He is an impact player.
You can't take a #5 pick and spend it on a DE you need to convert to OLB.
When you are picking #5 you need to get a difference maker. You have to come away with an impact player. Crabtree is a difference maker. He is an impact player.
You can't take a #5 pick and spend it on a DE you need to convert to OLB.
I'm all for taking Crabtree, but I don't think the argument based on position holds water. The same argument could have been made in '05 to justify taking BE over DeMarcus Ware, something that most of us now think was a mistake.
It's more about Crabtree being a better, less risky receiving prospect than Orakpo is at rush linebacker. But if Crabtree is already off the board at #5, I don't think you pass up on Orakpo simply because he'd play 3-4 OLB for us.
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When you are picking #5 you need to get a difference maker. You have to come away with an impact player. Crabtree is a difference maker. He is an impact player.
You can't take a #5 pick and spend it on a DE you need to convert to OLB.
I'm all for taking Crabtree, but I don't think the argument based on position holds water. The same argument could have been made in '05 to justify taking BE over DeMarcus Ware, something that most of us now think was a mistake.
It's more about Crabtree being a better, less risky receiving prospect than Orakpo is at rush linebacker. But if Crabtree is already off the board at #5, I don't think you pass up on Orakpo simply because he'd play 3-4 OLB for us.
Aloysius said:
I'm all for taking Crabtree, but I don't think the argument based on position holds water. The same argument could have been made in '05 to justify taking BE over DeMarcus Ware, something that most of us now think was a mistake.It's more about Crabtree being a better, less risky receiving prospect than Orakpo is at rush linebacker. But if Crabtree is already off the board at #5, I don't think you pass up on Orakpo simply because he'd play 3-4 OLB for us.
well played sir...
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There are just too many worries for me with taking Crabtree. I know many of you don't like looking at past players and comparing them to a guy coming out now, but I can't help but think of WR's that have been 1st round picks the last 5 or 6 years...I think 7 or 8 of these were top ten picks. Not many game changers in this goup.
Mike Williams, Braylon Edwards, Michael Jenkins, Andre Johnson, Lee Evans, Bryant Johnson, Charles Rogers,
Reggie Williams, Larry Fitzgerald, Dwayne Bowe, Calvin Johnson, Ted Ginn, Robert Meachum,Santonio Holmes, Craig Davis, Anthony Gonzalaz, Matt Jones, Mark Clayton, Roddy White, Reshaun Woods, Michael Clayton.
21 first round picks there. The jury is still out on a few. But of this group right now you may have 2 or 3 game changers? Maybe only 1 real game changer in Fitzgerald.
Maybe Crabtree would be different. But I'm an odds guy and the odds don't seem to be good when going WR in round one.
Boy, a trade down would be great but it probably won't happen.
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The other thing to consider is that Seattle may still be taking Crabtree at #4. Everyone seems to have forgotten that TJ Housh is going to be 32 next season, and they've got a bunch of castoffs after that.
As bad as our WR situation is, Seattle's is equally bad, and that's with TJ.
So I think Orapko is probably going to be the guy there if Crabtree isn't available, or even if he is. The other choices would have to be Raji, and maybe Maualuga. I can't think of going in another direction other than those four unless you're able to get out of the pick.
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The other thing to consider is that Seattle may still be taking Crabtree at #4. Everyone seems to have forgotten that TJ Housh is going to be 32 next season, and they've got a bunch of castoffs after that.
As bad as our WR situation is, Seattle's is equally bad, and that's with TJ.
So I think Orapko is probably going to be the guy there if Crabtree isn't available, or even if he is. The other choices would have to be Raji, and maybe Maualuga. I can't think of going in another direction other than those four unless you're able to get out of the pick.
So I think Orapko is probably going to be the guy there if Crabtree isn't available, or even if he is. The other choices would have to be Raji, and maybe Maualuga. I can't think of going in another direction other than those four unless you're able to get out of the pick.
I think you are exactly right. Everything really points to two guys. Anything else would be considered a big reach.
I like Raji but I imagine they'll think he's not a 3-4 DE and Rey may be just too big of a stretch for the Browns front office.
Plus he didn't have a good combine at all.
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The other thing to consider is that Seattle may still be taking Crabtree at #4. Everyone seems to have forgotten that TJ Housh is going to be 32 next season, and they've got a bunch of castoffs after that.
As bad as our WR situation is, Seattle's is equally bad, and that's with TJ.
So I think Orapko is probably going to be the guy there if Crabtree isn't available, or even if he is. The other choices would have to be Raji, and maybe Maualuga. I can't think of going in another direction other than those four unless you're able to get out of the pick.
The other thing to consider is that Seattle may still be taking Crabtree at #4. Everyone seems to have forgotten that TJ Housh is going to be 32 next season, and they've got a bunch of castoffs after that.
As bad as our WR situation is, Seattle's is equally bad, and that's with TJ.
So I think Orapko is probably going to be the guy there if Crabtree isn't available, or even if he is. The other choices would have to be Raji, and maybe Maualuga. I can't think of going in another direction other than those four unless you're able to get out of the pick.
the other thing is that WR is really the last link in the offensive chain, and without a QB that mankok has faith in or a RB to carry the load, a WR isn't the most useful player.
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We've got to get Quinn someone to throw to. Got to.
Right now it's Edwards, Cribbs, Rucker, and guys who've never mattered like Steptoe and Hubbard. That's pretty weak tea.
Then you've got to factor in that most rookie WRs take a year or two to adjust to the pro game. So I'd say we need a vet and a rookie added. The rookie now - Crabtree - and the vet later after cap and camp cutdowns.
Think Mike McKenzie, but a WR.
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There are just too many worries for me with taking Crabtree. I know many of you don't like looking at past players and comparing them to a guy coming out now, but I can't help but think of WR's that have been 1st round picks the last 5 or 6 years...I think 7 or 8 of these were top ten picks. Not many game changers in this goup.
Mike Williams, Braylon Edwards, Michael Jenkins, Andre Johnson, Lee Evans, Bryant Johnson, Charles Rogers,
Reggie Williams, Larry Fitzgerald, Dwayne Bowe, Calvin Johnson, Ted Ginn, Robert Meachum,Santonio Holmes, Craig Davis, Anthony Gonzalaz, Matt Jones, Mark Clayton, Roddy White, Reshaun Woods, Michael Clayton.
21 first round picks there. The jury is still out on a few. But of this group right now you may have 2 or 3 game changers? Maybe only 1 real game changer in Fitzgerald.
Maybe Crabtree would be different. But I'm an odds guy and the odds don't seem to be good when going WR in round one.
Boy, a trade down would be great but it probably won't happen.
There are just too many worries for me with taking Crabtree. I know many of you don't like looking at past players and comparing them to a guy coming out now, but I can't help but think of WR's that have been 1st round picks the last 5 or 6 years...I think 7 or 8 of these were top ten picks. Not many game changers in this goup.
Mike Williams, Braylon Edwards, Michael Jenkins, Andre Johnson, Lee Evans, Bryant Johnson, Charles Rogers,
Reggie Williams, Larry Fitzgerald, Dwayne Bowe, Calvin Johnson, Ted Ginn, Robert Meachum,Santonio Holmes, Craig Davis, Anthony Gonzalaz, Matt Jones, Mark Clayton, Roddy White, Reshaun Woods, Michael Clayton.
21 first round picks there. The jury is still out on a few. But of this group right now you may have 2 or 3 game changers? Maybe only 1 real game changer in Fitzgerald.
Maybe Crabtree would be different. But I'm an odds guy and the odds don't seem to be good when going WR in round one.
Boy, a trade down would be great but it probably won't happen.
Andre Johnson isn't a game changer?
I seem to remember Santonio Holmes changing a few games this year too, namely the SUPERBOWL.
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As you see, things can change in the blink of an eye. This is why nobody tips there hand until draft day. I would expect being a browns fan for a few more 'unexpected' twists before draft day, hence changing your pick all over again.
Put yourself in the mindset of what would NE do, or what would Pittsburg do or any stable, established FO. You have to think like a winner to be a winner.
Just sayin.
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When you are picking #5 you need to get a difference maker. You have to come away with an impact player. Crabtree is a difference maker. He is an impact player.
You can't take a #5 pick and spend it on a DE you need to convert to OLB.
I'm all for taking Crabtree, but I don't think the argument based on position holds water. The same argument could have been made in '05 to justify taking BE over DeMarcus Ware, something that most of us now think was a mistake.
It's more about Crabtree being a better, less risky receiving prospect than Orakpo is at rush linebacker. But if Crabtree is already off the board at #5, I don't think you pass up on Orakpo simply because he'd play 3-4 OLB for us.
Aloysius said:
I'm all for taking Crabtree, but I don't think the argument based on position holds water. The same argument could have been made in '05 to justify taking BE over DeMarcus Ware, something that most of us now think was a mistake.It's more about Crabtree being a better, less risky receiving prospect than Orakpo is at rush linebacker. But if Crabtree is already off the board at #5, I don't think you pass up on Orakpo simply because he'd play 3-4 OLB for us.
First I try to trade down before I do anything. Then, I would take the best player available. Personally, even if Crabtree is gone it wouldn't be orakpo. Too many ifs to chance a #5 on him. I'm talking injury and performance ifs, not changing from DE to OLB ifs.
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The other thing to consider is that Seattle may still be taking Crabtree at #4. Everyone seems to have forgotten that TJ Housh is going to be 32 next season, and they've got a bunch of castoffs after that.
As bad as our WR situation is, Seattle's is equally bad, and that's with TJ.
So I think Orapko is probably going to be the guy there if Crabtree isn't available, or even if he is. The other choices would have to be Raji, and maybe Maualuga. I can't think of going in another direction other than those four unless you're able to get out of the pick.
the other thing is that WR is really the last link in the offensive chain, and without a QB that mankok has faith in or a RB to carry the load, a WR isn't the most useful player.
the other thing is that WR is really the last link in the offensive chain, and without a QB that mankok has faith in or a RB to carry the load, a WR isn't the most useful player.
What would make you think Mangini doesn't have a QB he has faith in? You are reading too many dumb trade posts on here. The media here can't stand that there is no information coming out of Berea so we get BS speculation that comes from some forum from another city.
Maybe a clue here is the fact that Quinn has been in Berea for months and has been working with Dabol and the QB coach a few times every week. And, that isn't speculation, he told our group that personally when we met him at the Kelly Pavlik fight in Youngstown in Feb. He had a lot of good things to say about Dabol, his approach to what they will be doing on offense and what he has gone over in the play book.
So, when talking about anybodies "KOK" you should have some basis to justify making your statement.
Also, I believe you have been on here blowing Harrison's horn and hoping we draft Jennings. We have started to fix the offensive line to help the running game, so what would be the problem with the running game.
The last link on the chain? What is that all about. You are saying that every other position of offense is more important then WR.
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When you are picking #5 you need to get a difference maker. You have to come away with an impact player. Crabtree is a difference maker. He is an impact player.
You can't take a #5 pick and spend it on a DE you need to convert to OLB.
When you are picking #5 you need to get a difference maker. You have to come away with an impact player. Crabtree is a difference maker. He is an impact player.
You can't take a #5 pick and spend it on a DE you need to convert to OLB.
I agree with that.
Not so much on Crabtree as in pimping the guy.....but we can't be looking at a project.
There will be 2-3 legit players.....Crabtree included....who could be selected and would have immediate impact without running some experiment.
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There are just too many worries for me with taking Crabtree. I know many of you don't like looking at past players and comparing them to a guy coming out now, but I can't help but think of WR's that have been 1st round picks the last 5 or 6 years...I think 7 or 8 of these were top ten picks. Not many game changers in this goup.
Mike Williams, Braylon Edwards, Michael Jenkins, Andre Johnson, Lee Evans, Bryant Johnson, Charles Rogers,
Reggie Williams, Larry Fitzgerald, Dwayne Bowe, Calvin Johnson, Ted Ginn, Robert Meachum,Santonio Holmes, Craig Davis, Anthony Gonzalaz, Matt Jones, Mark Clayton, Roddy White, Reshaun Woods, Michael Clayton.
21 first round picks there. The jury is still out on a few. But of this group right now you may have 2 or 3 game changers? Maybe only 1 real game changer in Fitzgerald.
Maybe Crabtree would be different. But I'm an odds guy and the odds don't seem to be good when going WR in round one.
Boy, a trade down would be great but it probably won't happen.
There are just too many worries for me with taking Crabtree. I know many of you don't like looking at past players and comparing them to a guy coming out now, but I can't help but think of WR's that have been 1st round picks the last 5 or 6 years...I think 7 or 8 of these were top ten picks. Not many game changers in this goup.
Mike Williams, Braylon Edwards, Michael Jenkins, Andre Johnson, Lee Evans, Bryant Johnson, Charles Rogers,
Reggie Williams, Larry Fitzgerald, Dwayne Bowe, Calvin Johnson, Ted Ginn, Robert Meachum,Santonio Holmes, Craig Davis, Anthony Gonzalaz, Matt Jones, Mark Clayton, Roddy White, Reshaun Woods, Michael Clayton.
21 first round picks there. The jury is still out on a few. But of this group right now you may have 2 or 3 game changers? Maybe only 1 real game changer in Fitzgerald.
Maybe Crabtree would be different. But I'm an odds guy and the odds don't seem to be good when going WR in round one.
Boy, a trade down would be great but it probably won't happen.
Let's don't say first round picks because there is a big difference between a guy being picked at #5 and a guy being picked at #30. Look at top of the draft picks and I see some receivers that are leading their teams and have been to the pro bowl.
Now you should post all the top of the draft Wimbley's that have been impact players as a comparison. Most of your 3-4 impact OLBs are middle or bottom of the round picks, including Ware and Merriman.
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When you are picking #5 you need to get a difference maker. You have to come away with an impact player. Crabtree is a difference maker. He is an impact player.
You can't take a #5 pick and spend it on a DE you need to convert to OLB.
I agree with that.
Not so much on Crabtree as in pimping the guy.....but we can't be looking at a project.
There will be 2-3 legit players.....Crabtree included....who could be selected and would have immediate impact without running some experiment.
I agree with that.
Not so much on Crabtree as in pimping the guy.....but we can't be looking at a project.
There will be 2-3 legit players.....Crabtree included....who could be selected and would have immediate impact without running some experiment.
Yes, I'm not just saying Crabtree, I'm saying take the best player available that is reasonable, considering needs. I wouldn't take a QB that was going to sit for a year. I just don't see Orakpo as that impact guy. The guy a team would have to scheme for when they play us. That's what I mean by game changer and impact player.
You would have to change your defensive scheme up when playing the Browns if you had Edwards and Crabtree spread wide. You couldn't play eight in the box and you would have to cover our TE with a LB. Harrison or even Cribbs coming out of the backfield would get single coverage by a LB usually.
That's a game changer.
There is value to be had, close to Orakpo, at the top of the second round that could have the same impact.
Now, let me qualify this by saying I am for trading down because of the value picks I see between 20 and 60 and the needs we have. I am only saying Crabtree over Orakpo if we are forced to stay at #5.
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