Anonymous Players Complain to SI Reporter about Defensive Scheme
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One thing is sure for any team coming against the defense, is that they will watch tape and do what was successful by other teams against it....Expect a heavy dose of TNT- Tavon and Todd...Since we (the rams) have a weakness in the passing game, we can expect the Browns D. to try and exploit that, which will be lessened if the team can pound the ball for 4 quarters......
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IMO, the biggest disappointment is O'Neil's lack of game time adjustments.
Think about the D at the beginning of the SD game, and what happened to the D after the Bolts went to the spread.
The Browns couldn't adjust.
My bitch about the "anonymous" defensive players is they should grow a pair and speak out.
In Buffalo, Mario Williams & Marcel Dareus didn't criticize the coaching staff anonymously.
Two things that will define you: Your determination when you have nothing. Your attitude when you have everything. - Mike McCartney -
IMO, the biggest disappointment is O'Neil's lack of game time adjustments.
Think about the D at the beginning of the SD game, and what happened to the D after the Bolts went to the spread.
The Browns couldn't adjust.
My bitch about the "anonymous" defensive players is they should grow a pair and speak out.
In Buffalo, Mario Williams & Marcel Dareus didn't criticize the coaching staff anonymously.
IMO, the biggest disappointment is O'Neil's lack of game time adjustments.
Think about the D at the beginning of the SD game, and what happened to the D after the Bolts went to the spread.
The Browns couldn't adjust.
My bitch about the "anonymous" defensive players is they should grow a pair and speak out.
In Buffalo, Mario Williams & Marcel Dareus didn't criticize the coaching staff anonymously.
Yep and in Buffalo Pettine couldn't stop the run there either.
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Anonymous = Pussy. Don't care what they have to say.
Our team hasn't tackled well this year and get physically pushed around, don't bitch about scheme when their guy is knocking you on your ass.
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Anonymous = Pussy. Don't care what they have to say.
Our team hasn't tackled well this year and get physically pushed around, don't bitch about scheme when their guy is knocking you on your ass.
Anonymous = Pussy. Don't care what they have to say.
Our team hasn't tackled well this year and get physically pushed around, don't bitch about scheme when their guy is knocking you on your ass.
I agree with this too. Like I said, not really a fan of read and react, but it has won big NFL games before. It's about execution.
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One thing is sure for any team coming against the defense, is that they will watch tape and do what was successful by other teams against it....Expect a heavy dose of TNT- Tavon and Todd...Since we (the rams) have a weakness in the passing game, we can expect the Browns D. to try and exploit that, which will be lessened if the team can pound the ball for 4 quarters......
I expect Gurley will get his 150 and maybe a score. Offensively its all you have. Josh, Travis and Big Gary will airmail this win for us. Book it. I think our D Is good for at least one D score as well.One thing is sure for any team coming against the defense, is that they will watch tape and do what was successful by other teams against it....Expect a heavy dose of TNT- Tavon and Todd...Since we (the rams) have a weakness in the passing game, we can expect the Browns D. to try and exploit that, which will be lessened if the team can pound the ball for 4 quarters......
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This is interesting stuff. Potentially explains a lot. I suppose a system like this takes time. If so we should see improvement. Hopefully soon.
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I expect Gurley will get his 150 and maybe a score. Offensively its all you have. Josh, Travis and Big Gary will airmail this win for us. Book it. I think our D Is good for at least one D score as well.One thing is sure for any team coming against the defense, is that they will watch tape and do what was successful by other teams against it....Expect a heavy dose of TNT- Tavon and Todd...Since we (the rams) have a weakness in the passing game, we can expect the Browns D. to try and exploit that, which will be lessened if the team can pound the ball for 4 quarters......
I expect Gurley will get his 150 and maybe a score. Offensively its all you have. Josh, Travis and Big Gary will airmail this win for us. Book it. I think our D Is good for at least one D score as well.
Gurley will get his 150-200 yards, and Tavon Austin will be a huge factor....Our D will probably get a score or two after Donald and Quinn pressure McNown into a few INTS...There is no way we should lose this game in St Louis, but stranger things have happened. so..
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Both teams have talent but neither likes to win games. The rams only like beating really good teams so I'm taking the browns 24 - 20.
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Kevin Jones, formerly of clevelandbrowns.com, filed the report Friday.
"Recently, a number of players have told me what they believe is the main impetus behind the continual running-back beatings: The Browns have issues with gap integrity - football speak for jamming the holes between the offensive linemen - at all.
Rather than being assigned specific gaps, Cleveland's defensive linemen play different techniques based on how their offensive counterparts are blocking them. The linebackers, then, are expected to guess what technique their teammates are using, scrape through the resulting mess and make the play. Opposing offenses have identified this flaw on film and are repeatedly, week-after-week, gashing the edge of Cleveland's defense. Its a completely chaotic approach to stopping the run, and players have said - off the record - they're spending way too much time thinking, and not nearly enough time reacting.
'Its an entire guessing game,' said one source. 'Imagine trying to define mud.'
Indeed, the defense may be too complicated for its own good - something the players have largely failed to address head on. Coordinator Jim O'Neil comes from the Pettine-Rex Ryan lineage, whereby part of the defensive philosophy is to cause pre-snap identification problems for quarterbacks and offensive linemen. It's a scheme that flourished with the Ravens, Jets and Bills but has so far failed to yield reliable results in Cleveland.
Simply put, the Browns are spending so much time figuring out ways to trick the offense, they're leaving themselves little to no margin for error. If it means dropping linebacker Paul Kruger in coverage to fool Peyton Manning, despite the latter being a scheme-identifying genius, Cleveland will do it. In other words, the Browns are so worried about you figuring out their cards, they wind up putting certain players in the wrong position."
http://www.si.com/thecauldron/2015/10/21/mike-pettine-cleveland-browns-defense-problems-afc-north
Most troubling to me is the line "... something the players have largely failed to address head on." Players, at least the leaders on D, have to be communicating with the staff and the staff should be asking for input.
I don't like what i'm reading "at all". If I would guess, Dansby might be one of these anonymous sources. This kind of shit has to be hell on a middle linebacker. He's got to do a pre snap read and set his line infront of him so he knows roughly where those gaps are gonna be...but if the line is basically a wild card and can go wherever they feel like, maybe now that explains why i'm seeing him constantly not where the ball is or scraping over there sideways only to get easily washed out. When you watch the best linebackers in football play, they're coming forward into the ball carrier more often than not because they move laterally at the snap and then react upfield when the RB commits to a gap. That's how you're supposed to run a defense. Our guys kind of soft cock it up to the line and now I think I know why, cause they can't see the gaps developing.
Kevin Jones, formerly of clevelandbrowns.com, filed the report Friday.
"Recently, a number of players have told me what they believe is the main impetus behind the continual running-back beatings: The Browns have issues with gap integrity - football speak for jamming the holes between the offensive linemen - at all.
Rather than being assigned specific gaps, Cleveland's defensive linemen play different techniques based on how their offensive counterparts are blocking them. The linebackers, then, are expected to guess what technique their teammates are using, scrape through the resulting mess and make the play. Opposing offenses have identified this flaw on film and are repeatedly, week-after-week, gashing the edge of Cleveland's defense. Its a completely chaotic approach to stopping the run, and players have said - off the record - they're spending way too much time thinking, and not nearly enough time reacting.
'Its an entire guessing game,' said one source. 'Imagine trying to define mud.'
Indeed, the defense may be too complicated for its own good - something the players have largely failed to address head on. Coordinator Jim O'Neil comes from the Pettine-Rex Ryan lineage, whereby part of the defensive philosophy is to cause pre-snap identification problems for quarterbacks and offensive linemen. It's a scheme that flourished with the Ravens, Jets and Bills but has so far failed to yield reliable results in Cleveland.
Simply put, the Browns are spending so much time figuring out ways to trick the offense, they're leaving themselves little to no margin for error. If it means dropping linebacker Paul Kruger in coverage to fool Peyton Manning, despite the latter being a scheme-identifying genius, Cleveland will do it. In other words, the Browns are so worried about you figuring out their cards, they wind up putting certain players in the wrong position."
http://www.si.com/thecauldron/2015/10/21/mike-pettine-cleveland-browns-defense-problems-afc-north
Most troubling to me is the line "... something the players have largely failed to address head on." Players, at least the leaders on D, have to be communicating with the staff and the staff should be asking for input. -
Yeah, I saw this a couple days ago.
Don't know if it's Players looking for an excuse, or the Writer having a case of Sour Grapes - so I'm not sure how much stock I put in it.
Defense sucks plan and simple.
Same D they ran last year, so now it's worse?
Sadly, I'm at the point where I don't believe anything coming out of Berea anymore, they've just shoveled too much shit for me to buy anything they put out anymore.
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IMO, the biggest disappointment is O'Neil's lack of game time adjustments.
Think about the D at the beginning of the SD game, and what happened to the D after the Bolts went to the spread.
The Browns couldn't adjust.
My bitch about the "anonymous" defensive players is they should grow a pair and speak out.
In Buffalo, Mario Williams & Marcel Dareus didn't criticize the coaching staff anonymously.
My bitch about the "anonymous" defensive players is they should grow a pair and speak out up.
In Buffalo, Mario Williams & Marcel Dareus didn't criticize the coaching staff anonymously.
Fixed point #1...
As for two... in BUF they just followed their HC's lead. Talking through the media is dysfunctional whether it's anonymous or not.
I agree with this too. Like I said, not really a fan of read and react, but it has won big NFL games before. It's about execution.
Attack mode... dictate to the Offense... loose the hounds...
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I guess my main question is, where did this whole defensive scheme idea come from? Some team somewhere must've had success with it, right?
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Maybe, but they didn't just put in this system overnight and
teach it in six weeks.
Teams generally have systems installed for years.
It's stupid to throw that much complication at the Browns defense
and expect them to be successful right out of the gate.
If it's Pettine's defense he got from wherever, it hasn't been successful where he's been.
You'd think he would make changes.
And, btw, he MUST stop all the constant micromanaging of the defense with substitutions.
It's signalling to the offense what they do with different packages.
My solution - bring Bill Parcells in, and either install him as defensive coordinator and make
Oneil his assistant, or at least make Bill Parcells a major advisor to help Oneil grow into a
SMART defensive coordinator.
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Same with the offense like even the comms said last week as soon as you put Dray on the field you know it's going to be a run play
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This defensive coaching staff is definitely not very good. However...one of the most frustrating things I see every week is poor tackling and missed tackles. That's on these lazy, complaining players....not the coaches.
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Kevin Jones, formerly of clevelandbrowns.com, filed the report Friday.
"Recently, a number of players have told me what they believe is the main impetus behind the continual running-back beatings: The Browns have issues with gap integrity - football speak for jamming the holes between the offensive linemen - at all.
Rather than being assigned specific gaps, Cleveland's defensive linemen play different techniques based on how their offensive counterparts are blocking them. The linebackers, then, are expected to guess what technique their teammates are using, scrape through the resulting mess and make the play. Opposing offenses have identified this flaw on film and are repeatedly, week-after-week, gashing the edge of Cleveland's defense. Its a completely chaotic approach to stopping the run, and players have said - off the record - they're spending way too much time thinking, and not nearly enough time reacting.
'Its an entire guessing game,' said one source. 'Imagine trying to define mud.'
Indeed, the defense may be too complicated for its own good - something the players have largely failed to address head on. Coordinator Jim O'Neil comes from the Pettine-Rex Ryan lineage, whereby part of the defensive philosophy is to cause pre-snap identification problems for quarterbacks and offensive linemen. It's a scheme that flourished with the Ravens, Jets and Bills but has so far failed to yield reliable results in Cleveland.
Simply put, the Browns are spending so much time figuring out ways to trick the offense, they're leaving themselves little to no margin for error. If it means dropping linebacker Paul Kruger in coverage to fool Peyton Manning, despite the latter being a scheme-identifying genius, Cleveland will do it. In other words, the Browns are so worried about you figuring out their cards, they wind up putting certain players in the wrong position."
http://www.si.com/thecauldron/2015/10/21/mike-pettine-cleveland-browns-defense-problems-afc-north
Most troubling to me is the line "... something the players have largely failed to address head on." Players, at least the leaders on D, have to be communicating with the staff and the staff should be asking for input.
Kevin Jones, formerly of clevelandbrowns.com, filed the report Friday.
"Recently, a number of players have told me what they believe is the main impetus behind the continual running-back beatings: The Browns have issues with gap integrity - football speak for jamming the holes between the offensive linemen - at all.
Rather than being assigned specific gaps, Cleveland's defensive linemen play different techniques based on how their offensive counterparts are blocking them. The linebackers, then, are expected to guess what technique their teammates are using, scrape through the resulting mess and make the play. Opposing offenses have identified this flaw on film and are repeatedly, week-after-week, gashing the edge of Cleveland's defense. Its a completely chaotic approach to stopping the run, and players have said - off the record - they're spending way too much time thinking, and not nearly enough time reacting.
'Its an entire guessing game,' said one source. 'Imagine trying to define mud.'
Indeed, the defense may be too complicated for its own good - something the players have largely failed to address head on. Coordinator Jim O'Neil comes from the Pettine-Rex Ryan lineage, whereby part of the defensive philosophy is to cause pre-snap identification problems for quarterbacks and offensive linemen. It's a scheme that flourished with the Ravens, Jets and Bills but has so far failed to yield reliable results in Cleveland.
Simply put, the Browns are spending so much time figuring out ways to trick the offense, they're leaving themselves little to no margin for error. If it means dropping linebacker Paul Kruger in coverage to fool Peyton Manning, despite the latter being a scheme-identifying genius, Cleveland will do it. In other words, the Browns are so worried about you figuring out their cards, they wind up putting certain players in the wrong position."
http://www.si.com/thecauldron/2015/10/21/mike-pettine-cleveland-browns-defense-problems-afc-north
Most troubling to me is the line "... something the players have largely failed to address head on." Players, at least the leaders on D, have to be communicating with the staff and the staff should be asking for input.
When did it succeed in Buffalo? Weren't they one of the 4 teams we beat in 2013 on a night Weeden had to replace an injured Brian Hoyer. That seemed like the only opponent that couldn't get Weeden to cooperate with beating the Cleveland Browns that year.
Totally agree with the last 3 sentences above. Ranking 32nd vrs the run in Cleveland says all that it has to. This comes from a guy that wears rose colored glasses as often as possible.
I was once told by a coach the difference between winning and losing resides in your ability to evaluate. If you can't acknowledge the truth, the garbage continuing to be swept under the rug stinks more while it recruits more noses. What goes on film is your vulnerabilities and which opponent hasn't found them this year?
Here's the 1 thing I do know - our Head Coach got his NFL potty training in Baltimore where Team Leaders (Ray Lewis & Ed Reed) meant way more to winning than B.Billick or any DC they had. I also read that they hosted get togethers where they chowed & studied film of tendencies, pre-snap keys and all those little intangibles that perpetuated them playing faster than their opponents most of the time. That was above and beyond what they might have had to do with their position coaches/teammates at the Rathouse. I never get the impression they were too terrified to tell their Head Coach if something seemed too confusing or appeared square peg-round hole. That built-in leadership at there got a lot of former DCs/Defensive Staff some Head Coaching jobs.
If we had ideal team leaders today - they wouldn't be bitching to the papers. They'd man up and take the truth to Pettine unless it's already happened and he gave them a great big F--- you (which I doubt). The frustrating thing is this is fixable stuff at least to an extent it's not preventing us from winning really close games.
It feels like we're walking a fine line between going on a run and rolling over and playing dead.
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This defensive coaching staff is definitely not very good. However...one of the most frustrating things I see every week is poor tackling and missed tackles. That's on these lazy, complaining players....not the coaches.
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I guess my main question is, where did this whole defensive scheme idea come from? Some team somewhere must've had success with it, right?
I guess my main question is, where did this whole defensive scheme idea come from? Some team somewhere must've had success with it, right?
Legit question. It's important to understand there is no Haloti Ngata in front of Ray Lewis inside or T. Suggs dominating 1 edge here. And there's definitely no Ed Reed intercepting everything in sight at the back end. Meatball on spaghetti, beating an opponent to their own tendency/area comes from being extremely well prepared.
Come game time, those bastards always knew our offensive playbook better than half the rent-a-squids we were going with. It seemed like every RB on the Houston Texans practice squad used to get pumped knowing he'd have a chance to start in Cleveland by the end of the year. Good Lord!
Prepare well and you play fast. Going into Sundays with too many questions - doesn't reward the church mice for staying silent. Waiting for passive aggressive opportunities in the press to scapegoat 1 coach after the fact doesn't impress me at all.
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