The Latest on "The Trade"
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Here's the problem with this scenario:
The Browns traded a 2nd round pick and used a 1st round pick to select Quinn and all they'd be getting for him now according to the original post in this thread is...a 1st and a 2nd round pick.
Which would mean that we'd have drafted Brady Quinn, who many saw as the best QB in that draft class, never played him for any significant time, and then got ZERO return for him.
Unless ManKok thinks Quinn is the biggest bust since Ryan Leaf, this isn't a step forward. It would be a lateral, 100% rebuild type of move.
And we'd still be without a franchise QB with no franchise QB in this draft.
So though I love the idea of FIVE day one picks in this draft, I can't quite get past the notion that we'd be not only throwing in the towel on this year completely but also flushing completely away the last 2 years of "development" of Quinn.
Again, WITHOUT EVER PLAYING HIM.
This type of thing would be unprecedented to say the least.
Here's the problem with this scenario:
The Browns traded a 2nd round pick and used a 1st round pick to select Quinn and all they'd be getting for him now according to the original post in this thread is...a 1st and a 2nd round pick.
Which would mean that we'd have drafted Brady Quinn, who many saw as the best QB in that draft class, never played him for any significant time, and then got ZERO return for him.
Unless ManKok thinks Quinn is the biggest bust since Ryan Leaf, this isn't a step forward. It would be a lateral, 100% rebuild type of move.
And we'd still be without a franchise QB with no franchise QB in this draft.
So though I love the idea of FIVE day one picks in this draft, I can't quite get past the notion that we'd be not only throwing in the towel on this year completely but also flushing completely away the last 2 years of "development" of Quinn.
Again, WITHOUT EVER PLAYING HIM.
This type of thing would be unprecedented to say the least.
I don't think that many saw Quinn as the best QB in that draft class. He was passed over and embarrassed on National TV as he sat their with the other "favorites" of that draft. I think he is overrated by many in here as some future HOF. I think he may be traded before Anderson. We need to get a Quarterback in here regardless. If it's him, then let him play, lets see what he can do. If not, trade him for the best we can get.
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This trade with Quinn going to Denver is interesting. Seriously, it may be a valid thought...but I have a few things about it that don't make sense:
1. The reason Denver is supposedly interested in Quinn is that they are going to run a 'New England' offense....but the Browns are rumored to be doing the same thing...so wouldn't the BROWNS want Quinn?
2. The Browns reportedly turned down a deal with Minnesota for 2 1sts last year...and NOW they take a 1st and a 2nd?
However, there are also reasons for this to make sense:
1. If the Browns are really in rebuild..AND like one of the QB's in the draft (or like DA)...this is a PERFECT way for the new FO to put their stamp on this team and get optimum picks to rebuild.
2. It ends the QB debate and gets the team behind the QB of choice
3. The Browns have been clearing cap space and spending petty cash in FA...so they must be saving the cash for draft picks (or maybe a late big name FA???)
Basically, I think that this COULD be valid...and as we are NOT going to compete this year anyway...if the team is sold on either DA or one of the QB's in the draft...we will have a couple of years for them to develop into the leader we need...and have a lot more pieces to help them get there.
Right now the Browns have the following picks:
#5
#36
#50
This trade is likely to bring in at least:
#17
#53
and possibly one of the following:
#76
#79
Thereby giving the Browns 5 picks in the top 53 (1st and 2nd rounds) and possible a 3rd rounder. That could go a long way to filling all the needs of this team...and make life a TON easier for whatever QB we put behind center.
Not saying this is the BEST idea...but it sure doesn't look BAD to me.
John, I am happy that you posted this, many people need to realize when new coaching staffs are hired they want there own players, and just maybe Mangini & Co. are not convinced that BQ or DA is the QB they want and as you say if we are not going anywhere this season what better way to improve this team for 2010 and beyond but to make a trade like this where the Browns could walk away with 4/5 picks in the 1st 2 rounds.
John there was a rumor I just heard that had the Browns moving out of the #5 spot in this trade and swapping picks with Denver.
Denver Receives: Brady Quinn, #5 pick 1st round, Jets 2nd round pick
Cleveland Receives: Denvers #12 pick 1st round, Jets #17 1st round
NY Jets Receives: Jay Cutler
John, I am happy that you posted this, many people need to realize when new coaching staffs are hired they want there own players, and just maybe Mangini & Co. are not convinced that BQ or DA is the QB they want and as you say if we are not going anywhere this season what better way to improve this team for 2010 and beyond but to make a trade like this where the Browns could walk away with 4/5 picks in the 1st 2 rounds.
John there was a rumor I just heard that had the Browns moving out of the #5 spot in this trade and swapping picks with Denver.
Denver Receives: Brady Quinn, #5 pick 1st round, Jets 2nd round pick
Cleveland Receives: Denvers #12 pick 1st round, Jets #17 1st round
NY Jets Receives: Jay Cutler
This actually makes a lot more sense...as I thought Denver was getting the short end in the last one. Not only that, but with #12 and #17 we would be in a position to draft a number of guys we could really use. It opens up the discussions for players like this:
ILB Maualuga
ILB Maybin
WR Maclin
I/O LB Cushing
RB Wells/Moreno
S Chris Jenkins (yes...I know he is listed as CB)
DE Tyson Jackson
QB Sanchez
probably more...but those come to mind
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This trade with Quinn going to Denver is interesting. Seriously, it may be a valid thought...but I have a few things about it that don't make sense:
1. The reason Denver is supposedly interested in Quinn is that they are going to run a 'New England' offense....but the Browns are rumored to be doing the same thing...so wouldn't the BROWNS want Quinn?
2. The Browns reportedly turned down a deal with Minnesota for 2 1sts last year...and NOW they take a 1st and a 2nd?
However, there are also reasons for this to make sense:
1. If the Browns are really in rebuild..AND like one of the QB's in the draft (or like DA)...this is a PERFECT way for the new FO to put their stamp on this team and get optimum picks to rebuild.
2. It ends the QB debate and gets the team behind the QB of choice
3. The Browns have been clearing cap space and spending petty cash in FA...so they must be saving the cash for draft picks (or maybe a late big name FA???)
Basically, I think that this COULD be valid...and as we are NOT going to compete this year anyway...if the team is sold on either DA or one of the QB's in the draft...we will have a couple of years for them to develop into the leader we need...and have a lot more pieces to help them get there.
Right now the Browns have the following picks:
#5
#36
#50
This trade is likely to bring in at least:
#17
#53
and possibly one of the following:
#76
#79
Thereby giving the Browns 5 picks in the top 53 (1st and 2nd rounds) and possible a 3rd rounder. That could go a long way to filling all the needs of this team...and make life a TON easier for whatever QB we put behind center.
Not saying this is the BEST idea...but it sure doesn't look BAD to me.
John, I am happy that you posted this, many people need to realize when new coaching staffs are hired they want there own players, and just maybe Mangini & Co. are not convinced that BQ or DA is the QB they want and as you say if we are not going anywhere this season what better way to improve this team for 2010 and beyond but to make a trade like this where the Browns could walk away with 4/5 picks in the 1st 2 rounds.
John there was a rumor I just heard that had the Browns moving out of the #5 spot in this trade and swapping picks with Denver.
Denver Receives: Brady Quinn, #5 pick 1st round, Jets 2nd round pick
Cleveland Receives: Denvers #12 pick 1st round, Jets #17 1st round
NY Jets Receives: Jay Cutler
John, I am happy that you posted this, many people need to realize when new coaching staffs are hired they want there own players, and just maybe Mangini & Co. are not convinced that BQ or DA is the QB they want and as you say if we are not going anywhere this season what better way to improve this team for 2010 and beyond but to make a trade like this where the Browns could walk away with 4/5 picks in the 1st 2 rounds.
John there was a rumor I just heard that had the Browns moving out of the #5 spot in this trade and swapping picks with Denver.
Denver Receives: Brady Quinn, #5 pick 1st round, Jets 2nd round pick
Cleveland Receives: Denvers #12 pick 1st round, Jets #17 1st round
NY Jets Receives: Jay Cutler
One more late round pick is what i thought was included. If you add a 5th round either this year or next the the numbers add up in our favor.
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John, I am happy that you posted this, many people need to realize when new coaching staffs are hired they want there own players, and just maybe Mangini & Co. are not convinced that BQ or DA is the QB they want and as you say if we are not going anywhere this season what better way to improve this team for 2010 and beyond but to make a trade like this where the Browns could walk away with 4/5 picks in the 1st 2 rounds.
John there was a rumor I just heard that had the Browns moving out of the #5 spot in this trade and swapping picks with Denver.
Denver Receives: Brady Quinn, #5 pick 1st round, Jets 2nd round pick
Cleveland Receives: Denvers #12 pick 1st round, Jets #17 1st round
NY Jets Receives: Jay Cutler
One more late round pick is what i thought was included. If you add a 5th round either this year or next the the numbers add up in our favor.
One more late round pick is what i thought was included. If you add a 5th round either this year or next the the numbers add up in our favor.
Just thinking the same thing..the Jets need to ante up a little more in either scenario. A 4th or 5th....or a 3rd next year...to the Browns to even it up.
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One more late round pick is what i thought was included. If you add a 5th round either this year or next the the numbers add up in our favor.
Just thinking the same thing..the Jets need to ante up a little more in either scenario. A 4th or 5th....or a 3rd next year...to the Browns to even it up.
Just thinking the same thing..the Jets need to ante up a little more in either scenario. A 4th or 5th....or a 3rd next year...to the Browns to even it up.
John I would think the Browns would be getting pretty good value here, we get out of the #5 selection and trade a unproven QB and we move down which is what everyone wanted and we get 2 1st round picks, so we get back the number 1 we traded to get Brady and we don't have to pay a #5 pick the dollars he would get now if we could get a 4th or 5th this year that would be good. The Browns could come out of this with a ILB, OLB, SS, C. I would be happy if we could get Rey, Everette Brown, Delmas and Mack or maybe we draft Sanchez as our future QB with Rey at ILB, Delmas at safety and Mack at center or do you think we go outside LB since we acquired Barton.
Looking at it from the Jets side they get a better QB than they could draft and the give up a 1st and 2nd round pick
The Broncos get a QB in Brady, the #5 pick in the draft and a 2nd round choice......not bad return for Cutler
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That would equate to us giving Quinn and a 2nd rounder for the jets #17 pick, you guys are insane to like that trade
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That would equate to us giving Quinn and a 2nd rounder for the jets #17 pick, you guys are insane to like that trade
nmills said:
That would equate to us giving Quinn and a 2nd rounder for the jets #17 pick, you guys are insane to like that tradeNot sure I follow you. We give up Quinn and #5 and get the 12th and 17th pick in the draft in one scenario...and in the other we give up Quinn and get the 17th and 53rd. Either way, we don't give up a 2nd rounder....
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nmills said:
That would equate to us giving Quinn and a 2nd rounder for the jets #17 pick, you guys are insane to like that tradeNot sure I follow you. We give up Quinn and #5 and get the 12th and 17th pick in the draft in one scenario...and in the other we give up Quinn and get the 17th and 53rd. Either way, we don't give up a 2nd rounder....
Not sure I follow you. We give up Quinn and #5 and get the 12th and 17th pick in the draft in one scenario...and in the other we give up Quinn and get the 17th and 53rd. Either way, we don't give up a 2nd rounder....
dropping from #5 to #12 is worth a 2nd rounder
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Not sure I follow you. We give up Quinn and #5 and get the 12th and 17th pick in the draft in one scenario...and in the other we give up Quinn and get the 17th and 53rd. Either way, we don't give up a 2nd rounder....
dropping from #5 to #12 is worth a 2nd rounder
nmills said:
dropping from #5 to #12 is worth a 2nd rounderwhich is why I thought the Jets needed to sweeten the pot a little. They were getting Cutler too cheap with a 1st and 2nd rounder (mid rounders at that). I would expect the Browns to get a 2010 pick in this situation.
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nmills said:
dropping from #5 to #12 is worth a 2nd rounderwhich is why I thought the Jets needed to sweeten the pot a little. They were getting Cutler too cheap with a 1st and 2nd rounder (mid rounders at that). I would expect the Browns to get a 2010 pick in this situation.
which is why I thought the Jets needed to sweeten the pot a little. They were getting Cutler too cheap with a 1st and 2nd rounder (mid rounders at that). I would expect the Browns to get a 2010 pick in this situation.
The Jets would have to add a 1st rounder next year before even thinking about considering that trade scenerio.
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which is why I thought the Jets needed to sweeten the pot a little. They were getting Cutler too cheap with a 1st and 2nd rounder (mid rounders at that). I would expect the Browns to get a 2010 pick in this situation.
The Jets would have to add a 1st rounder next year before even thinking about considering that trade scenerio.
nmills said:
The Jets would have to add a 1st rounder next year before even thinking about considering that trade scenerio.Quinn was a #22 pick...and you want 2 1sts for him? Really?
Quinn has 1 good game under his belt and 2 injury games. I don't see that worth two 1st round picks. In fact, I doubt Cutler draws that price. So, trading Quinn and our #5 for the #12 and #17 picks and a 2nd or 3rd next year is not a bad trade at all.
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nmills said:
The Jets would have to add a 1st rounder next year before even thinking about considering that trade scenerio.Quinn was a #22 pick...and you want 2 1sts for him? Really?
Quinn has 1 good game under his belt and 2 injury games. I don't see that worth two 1st round picks. In fact, I doubt Cutler draws that price. So, trading Quinn and our #5 for the #12 and #17 picks and a 2nd or 3rd next year is not a bad trade at all.
Quinn was a #22 pick...and you want 2 1sts for him? Really?
Quinn has 1 good game under his belt and 2 injury games. I don't see that worth two 1st round picks. In fact, I doubt Cutler draws that price. So, trading Quinn and our #5 for the #12 and #17 picks and a 2nd or 3rd next year is not a bad trade at all.
Minnesota already offered us two first rounders, so yea
dropping 5 to 12 cancels out your 2nd or 3rd next year, so your giving up Quinn for a #17 when we gave a 1st and 2nd to get him and he hasnt had a chance to play yet. Thats insane to me
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Quinn was a #22 pick...and you want 2 1sts for him? Really?
Quinn has 1 good game under his belt and 2 injury games. I don't see that worth two 1st round picks. In fact, I doubt Cutler draws that price. So, trading Quinn and our #5 for the #12 and #17 picks and a 2nd or 3rd next year is not a bad trade at all.
Minnesota already offered us two first rounders, so yea
dropping 5 to 12 cancels out your 2nd or 3rd next year, so your giving up Quinn for a #17 when we gave a 1st and 2nd to get him and he hasnt had a chance to play yet. Thats insane to me
nmills said:
Minnesota already offered us two first rounders, so yeadropping 5 to 12 cancels out your 2nd or 3rd next year, so your giving up Quinn for a #17 when we gave a 1st and 2nd to get him and he hasnt had a chance to play yet. Thats insane to me
By your logic we shouldn't consider anything less than a 1st and a 2nd for DA because we already turned down that offer...
The fact is, THIS FO hasn't turned down anything.
THIS FO is NOT the previous FO...and they value players differently. What the previous FO traded to get BQ has nothing to do with anything at this point. They will do what they feel is best...and if that includes trading BQ...then they will do it.
Add into that equation the financial climate and you can see the value of players dropping considerably. Just look at the Cassel trade and you will get a better idea of how good this trade is.
Personally, I would prefer keeping Quinn as I don't like DA's style of QBing...and I don't think Sanchez is going to be as good as BQ....but my opinion isn't worth squat.
This FO is rebuilding...and new pieces are required to do that. BQ is one of our pieces worth even a little...so this trade has merit. However, OVER-valuing BQ just because the previous FO liked him makes no difference TODAY.
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Makes entertaining reading but Quinn isn't going anywhere...................................
Entertaining but not not reality.
Makes entertaining reading but Quinn isn't going anywhere...................................
Entertaining but not not reality.
Aren't you the king of asking for links? Along those lines..... you got a link? Got a quote? Have you heard anything that says "Quinn isn't going anywhere"? Has MANKOK said he isn't going anywhere?!?!?
Haha! Hey you sure get a change in philosophy when we're talking about your purdy boy.
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nmills said:
Minnesota already offered us two first rounders, so yeadropping 5 to 12 cancels out your 2nd or 3rd next year, so your giving up Quinn for a #17 when we gave a 1st and 2nd to get him and he hasnt had a chance to play yet. Thats insane to me
By your logic we shouldn't consider anything less than a 1st and a 2nd for DA because we already turned down that offer...
The fact is, THIS FO hasn't turned down anything.
THIS FO is NOT the previous FO...and they value players differently. What the previous FO traded to get BQ has nothing to do with anything at this point. They will do what they feel is best...and if that includes trading BQ...then they will do it.
Add into that equation the financial climate and you can see the value of players dropping considerably. Just look at the Cassel trade and you will get a better idea of how good this trade is.
Personally, I would prefer keeping Quinn as I don't like DA's style of QBing...and I don't think Sanchez is going to be as good as BQ....but my opinion isn't worth squat.
This FO is rebuilding...and new pieces are required to do that. BQ is one of our pieces worth even a little...so this trade has merit. However, OVER-valuing BQ just because the previous FO liked him makes no difference TODAY.
By your logic we shouldn't consider anything less than a 1st and a 2nd for DA because we already turned down that offer...
The fact is, THIS FO hasn't turned down anything.
THIS FO is NOT the previous FO...and they value players differently. What the previous FO traded to get BQ has nothing to do with anything at this point. They will do what they feel is best...and if that includes trading BQ...then they will do it.
Add into that equation the financial climate and you can see the value of players dropping considerably. Just look at the Cassel trade and you will get a better idea of how good this trade is.
Personally, I would prefer keeping Quinn as I don't like DA's style of QBing...and I don't think Sanchez is going to be as good as BQ....but my opinion isn't worth squat.
This FO is rebuilding...and new pieces are required to do that. BQ is one of our pieces worth even a little...so this trade has merit. However, OVER-valuing BQ just because the previous FO liked him makes no difference TODAY.
I've never heard anywhere where we turned down a 1st and 2nd for DA. But if we did I would still expect DA's value to go down some because he had a horrible season, comparing that to Quinn doesnt make sense what has Quinn done to lose trade value, if anything I would say he bolsterd his value with how he performed against denver in his first start.
It has nothing to do with the previous FO or how the current FO values players, although I'm sure they would both try to get as much as possible for any player so really there's not much defference. It has to do with what the market is for your players, and if the market has already offered two 1st rounders why would you take one 1st rounder, that doesnt seem like it would be in the best interest of your team to me
1st Ezekiel Ansah, DE, BYU 3rd Darius Slay, CB, Mississippi State4th Landry Jones, QB, Oklahoma5th Earl Wolff, S, N.C. State6th Lucas Reed, TE, New Mexico -
nmills said:
Minnesota already offered us two first rounders, so yeadropping 5 to 12 cancels out your 2nd or 3rd next year, so your giving up Quinn for a #17 when we gave a 1st and 2nd to get him and he hasnt had a chance to play yet. Thats insane to me
By your logic we shouldn't consider anything less than a 1st and a 2nd for DA because we already turned down that offer...
The fact is, THIS FO hasn't turned down anything.
THIS FO is NOT the previous FO...and they value players differently. What the previous FO traded to get BQ has nothing to do with anything at this point. They will do what they feel is best...and if that includes trading BQ...then they will do it.
Add into that equation the financial climate and you can see the value of players dropping considerably. Just look at the Cassel trade and you will get a better idea of how good this trade is.
Personally, I would prefer keeping Quinn as I don't like DA's style of QBing...and I don't think Sanchez is going to be as good as BQ....but my opinion isn't worth squat.
This FO is rebuilding...and new pieces are required to do that. BQ is one of our pieces worth even a little...so this trade has merit. However, OVER-valuing BQ just because the previous FO liked him makes no difference TODAY.
Personally, I would prefer keeping Quinn as I don't like DA's style of QBing...
Seriously? What a revelation. No wonder you spent the last 4 months coming up with fantasy scenarios for shipping DA to Detroilet and such...
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Makes entertaining reading but Quinn isn't going anywhere...................................
Entertaining but not not reality.
Aren't you the king of asking for links? Along those lines..... you got a link? Got a quote? Have you heard anything that says "Quinn isn't going anywhere"? Has MANKOK said he isn't going anywhere?!?!?
Haha! Hey you sure get a change in philosophy when we're talking about your purdy boy.
Aren't you the king of asking for links? Along those lines..... you got a link? Got a quote? Have you heard anything that says "Quinn isn't going anywhere"? Has MANKOK said he isn't going anywhere?!?!?
Haha! Hey you sure get a change in philosophy when we're talking about your purdy boy.
And I noticed that you combed through this entire thread to find one of a vast minority that said that instead of commenting on 4 pages of Browns fans discussing the overall MERITS of the trade...and NOT slobbering all over BQ (the way you do DA).
No, you can't even come in this thread where we discuss trading BQ and ADD to the thread...just mock one guy for not seeing it happen.
Typical!!!
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By your logic we shouldn't consider anything less than a 1st and a 2nd for DA because we already turned down that offer...
The fact is, THIS FO hasn't turned down anything.
THIS FO is NOT the previous FO...and they value players differently. What the previous FO traded to get BQ has nothing to do with anything at this point. They will do what they feel is best...and if that includes trading BQ...then they will do it.
Add into that equation the financial climate and you can see the value of players dropping considerably. Just look at the Cassel trade and you will get a better idea of how good this trade is.
Personally, I would prefer keeping Quinn as I don't like DA's style of QBing...and I don't think Sanchez is going to be as good as BQ....but my opinion isn't worth squat.
This FO is rebuilding...and new pieces are required to do that. BQ is one of our pieces worth even a little...so this trade has merit. However, OVER-valuing BQ just because the previous FO liked him makes no difference TODAY.
I've never heard anywhere where we turned down a 1st and 2nd for DA. But if we did I would still expect DA's value to go down some because he had a horrible season, comparing that to Quinn doesnt make sense what has Quinn done to lose trade value, if anything I would say he bolsterd his value with how he performed against denver in his first start.
It has nothing to do with the previous FO or how the current FO values players, although I'm sure they would both try to get as much as possible for any player so really there's not much defference. It has to do with what the market is for your players, and if the market has already offered two 1st rounders why would you take one 1st rounder, that doesnt seem like it would be in the best interest of your team to me
nmills said:
I've never heard anywhere where we turned down a 1st and 2nd for DA. But if we did I would still expect DA's value to go down some because he had a horrible season, comparing that to Quinn doesnt make sense what has Quinn done to lose trade value, if anything I would say he bolsterd his value with how he performed against denver in his first start.It has nothing to do with the previous FO or how the current FO values players, although I'm sure they would both try to get as much as possible for any player so really there's not much defference. It has to do with what the market is for your players, and if the market has already offered two 1st rounders why would you take one 1st rounder, that doesnt seem like it would be in the best interest of your team to me
Maybe because the Cassel trade diminished the trade value?
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Personally, I would prefer keeping Quinn as I don't like DA's style of QBing...
Seriously? What a revelation. No wonder you spent the last 4 months coming up with fantasy scenarios for shipping DA to Detroilet and such...
Seriously? What a revelation. No wonder you spent the last 4 months coming up with fantasy scenarios for shipping DA to Detroilet and such...
Again...I say this one tiny little blurb among a TON of comments about how the trade makes sense...and all you can comment on is this blurb. You are truly myopic!!!
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nmills said:
I've never heard anywhere where we turned down a 1st and 2nd for DA. But if we did I would still expect DA's value to go down some because he had a horrible season, comparing that to Quinn doesnt make sense what has Quinn done to lose trade value, if anything I would say he bolsterd his value with how he performed against denver in his first start.It has nothing to do with the previous FO or how the current FO values players, although I'm sure they would both try to get as much as possible for any player so really there's not much defference. It has to do with what the market is for your players, and if the market has already offered two 1st rounders why would you take one 1st rounder, that doesnt seem like it would be in the best interest of your team to me
Maybe because the Cassel trade diminished the trade value?
Maybe because the Cassel trade diminished the trade value?
how? they were offered a 1st for cassel and for some reason they took a high 2nd instead from his ex GM, maybe a favor or maybe he had something worked out for Peppers who knows
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