18-38.......
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Also, wtf are all these wonderful josh starts this year? I count two he was good in- the chargers loss and the ravens win.
He was TERRIBLE in the Denver game. He threw a horrid pick six(-7 points right there) and besides that consistently wasted a great defensive effort. the defense set him up twice late in the game in Denver territory only needing a field goal and he blew it both times(bad sack, terrible interception). Oh yeah and our defense pick 6'd manning as well, so besides all his horrible mistakes in that game he didn't score > 20. He scored 17 and gave up 7 himself on the pick to talib. not to mention all the missed opportunities off the other turnovers our defense forced......
We got way behind in the Oakland game because he was bad for 2/3rds of it. Yeah he played well late, but too little too late and his poor play(in addition to some blown coverages) put us in a bad spot. That wasn't a complete F game like the Denver game, but it was below average.
The Rams game he was of course not good. led the offense to 6 pts and had two lost fumbles. There is no good way to spin that.
So to contrast the two good performances(chargers and ravens, where he was admittedly very good in Baltimore) I see two very bad performances and one below average performance......that's not good.
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While I don't think QB is our biggest problem, the QB spot isn't really helping us win games either
McCown is 2-15 in his last 17 starts.
The season is over now, so put Johnny in and let him prove if he can play.( I think he will flame out and not play well at all)
Then move on next year with a high drafted QB and start over
Although if Farmer is doing the draft next year, I have serious doubts we will get a QB that will be good
While I don't think QB is our biggest problem, the QB spot isn't really helping us win games either
McCown is 2-15 in his last 17 starts.
The season is over now, so put Johnny in and let him prove if he can play.( I think he will flame out and not play well at all)
Then move on next year with a high drafted QB and start over
Although if Farmer is doing the draft next year, I have serious doubts we will get a QB that will be good
Fair deal.
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While I don't think QB is our biggest problem, the QB spot isn't really helping us win games either
McCown is 2-15 in his last 17 starts.
The season is over now, so put Johnny in and let him prove if he can play.( I think he will flame out and not play well at all)
Then move on next year with a high drafted QB and start over
Although if Farmer is doing the draft next year, I have serious doubts we will get a QB that will be good
While I don't think QB is our biggest problem, the QB spot isn't really helping us win games either
McCown is 2-15 in his last 17 starts.
The season is over now, so put Johnny in and let him prove if he can play.( I think he will flame out and not play well at all)
Then move on next year with a high drafted QB and start over
Although if Farmer is doing the draft next year, I have serious doubts we will get a QB that will be good
This is a reasonable and coherent argument.
well if you did well in all those math classes it seems one would instantly know that a record of 18-38 is nowhere remotely close to 47%....regardless of what number one is plugging in. And regardless of whether Josh's winning percentage is above Johnny's as a starter(it isn't), that's not relevant because Johnny's sample size is a few games and Josh has a sample size > 50. IOW, We *KNOW* Josh mccown is a proven loser.....biggest loser in the nfl today(or possibly even recent history?) of any qb with that volume of starts. Whereas obviously with just a few starts under his belt we don't know for sure that Johnny is a proven loser or not......
This is not.
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sorry to bring actual hard numbers(18-38 as a starter across a 14 year career with several different teams) into the mix....but hey at least I could provide a little math refresher......Josh mccown has been with four or five different organizations and had countless different combinations of coaches, offensive coordinators, offensive lines, wideouts, etc.....the one constant thing in all that is he LOSES FOOTBALL GAMES.
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18 career wins for a guy who has been in the league 13 years. Josh mccown wins 1.4 games per year.....so he's a little ahead of pace this year as he is on pace for 2, maybe even 3 wins!!
Look, I know this forum could practically be renamed "excusesforjosh" rather than brownsboard, but it's more than just inconsistent starts throughout his career or bad offensive lines or bad teams/defenses or whatever. The guy is just a loser. He knows how to lose football games that are seemingly there for the taking.
There are other guys out there who are journeyman qbs over the course of his career who also have some of the same issues and team problems.....and you know what? They don't lose more than two games throughout their career for every game they win!!! That's just a cold hard fact.
In fact, I just searched the database and amongst all active qbs with more than 50 career starts, Josh Mccown is DEAD LAST. He has a lower winning percentage than every single guy. Even guys like chad freaking henne and josh freeman come out better. He would be above blaine gabbert, but gabbert only has 27 career starts. Josh Mccown is a L-O-S-E-R. It's that simple.
And now the broncos game makes sense......how the ^#$* did we lose that game? TWICE(not once, but twice) our defense handed the ball to our offense(once with a great pick and once with a sack and forced punt deep in their territory) in Denver territory, and either time all we had to do was pick up ONE MEASLY FIRST DOWN or gain 10-15 yards total and get in field goal range and the game is over.......and BOTH times Mccown somewhow manages to avoid that. Once he took a terrible sack to put us out of fg range and once he threw a terrible interception. Our defense won that game for us.....and Mccown took that win and threw it in the toilet.
And the thing is....that's been a theme throughout his career. Yes Tampa was a bad team last year, but in a few of those losses they were playing other bad teams(every team was below .500 in that division after all) and were in great position to win the game but.....something always seemed to happen. A bad pick in the 4th qtr. A terrible sack where he takes the team out of field position where a fg seals the game. Again and again and again......
This is not a coincidence. This is not random bad luck. This is a qb who KNOWS HOW TO LOSE, and has proven it year after year after year.
Look, I don't know if johnny will be good or not. But throwing a 36 year old journey PROVEN LOSER out there again and again in yet another season already in the toilet is just pointless. It's the worst thing you could possibly do.
Josh Mccown is a L-O-S-E-R
18 career wins for a guy who has been in the league 13 years. Josh mccown wins 1.4 games per year.....so he's a little ahead of pace this year as he is on pace for 2, maybe even 3 wins!!
Look, I know this forum could practically be renamed "excusesforjosh" rather than brownsboard, but it's more than just inconsistent starts throughout his career or bad offensive lines or bad teams/defenses or whatever. The guy is just a loser. He knows how to lose football games that are seemingly there for the taking.
There are other guys out there who are journeyman qbs over the course of his career who also have some of the same issues and team problems.....and you know what? They don't lose more than two games throughout their career for every game they win!!! That's just a cold hard fact.
In fact, I just searched the database and amongst all active qbs with more than 50 career starts, Josh Mccown is DEAD LAST. He has a lower winning percentage than every single guy. Even guys like chad freaking henne and josh freeman come out better. He would be above blaine gabbert, but gabbert only has 27 career starts. Josh Mccown is a L-O-S-E-R. It's that simple.
And now the broncos game makes sense......how the ^#$* did we lose that game? TWICE(not once, but twice) our defense handed the ball to our offense(once with a great pick and once with a sack and forced punt deep in their territory) in Denver territory, and either time all we had to do was pick up ONE MEASLY FIRST DOWN or gain 10-15 yards total and get in field goal range and the game is over.......and BOTH times Mccown somewhow manages to avoid that. Once he took a terrible sack to put us out of fg range and once he threw a terrible interception. Our defense won that game for us.....and Mccown took that win and threw it in the toilet.
And the thing is....that's been a theme throughout his career. Yes Tampa was a bad team last year, but in a few of those losses they were playing other bad teams(every team was below .500 in that division after all) and were in great position to win the game but.....something always seemed to happen. A bad pick in the 4th qtr. A terrible sack where he takes the team out of field position where a fg seals the game. Again and again and again......
This is not a coincidence. This is not random bad luck. This is a qb who KNOWS HOW TO LOSE, and has proven it year after year after year.
Look, I don't know if johnny will be good or not. But throwing a 36 year old journey PROVEN LOSER out there again and again in yet another season already in the toilet is just pointless. It's the worst thing you could possibly do.
Josh Mccown is a L-O-S-E-R
I agree. I don't think anyone thought mccown was going to be the long term solution anyway and who knows what is going to happen with manziel. We are in qb hell, again. I have to disagree with you on the bronco game. The play that lost the game there after the mingo int, was the stupid play call to run turbin on a sweep putting us at 2nd and 14. From there the broncos knew the browns were going to throw and the rest is history...saw several other posters say the same thing. I really wish i knew who our qb of the future is going to be. I wonder if even this organization knows at this point...That's scary...
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Dwayne bowe has done zero yes.....but did anyone expect him to do anything but zero? He was a moderate to low risk player(it's not like we gave him Jeremy maclin money, which is the guy kc upgraded him with).....Dwayne Bowe did zero for about 85% of his chiefs career(he had a like 5 week spell 4 years ago where he caught fire....other than that he hasn't done much), so the idea that he was going to come in here and produce bigtime was foolish. I don't think anyone expected that which is why interest was so low.
Dwayne bowe has done zero yes.....but did anyone expect him to do anything but zero? He was a moderate to low risk player(it's not like we gave him Jeremy maclin money, which is the guy kc upgraded him with).....Dwayne Bowe did zero for about 85% of his chiefs career(he had a like 5 week spell 4 years ago where he caught fire....other than that he hasn't done much), so the idea that he was going to come in here and produce bigtime was foolish. I don't think anyone expected that which is why interest was so low.
couple that with hartline. get rid of this idiot farmer....
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News to you, Taco -
all fumbles are not the qb's fault. When a wr or rb, say,... catches a pass and takes off running downfield....
and gets hit and looses the ball out of their grip
and it gets recovered by the other team....
the qb did not make it happen.
News to you, Taco -
all fumbles are not the qb's fault. When a wr or rb, say,... catches a pass and takes off running downfield....
and gets hit and looses the ball out of their grip
and it gets recovered by the other team....
the qb did not make it happen.
excellent point...we always seem to have these little dweeb rb's or wr's who are weak...gabriel, hawkins, etc etc...i could go on throughout the yrs.. they get squashed like a waterbug. This is now a league where you need the strong tall wideouts ala jefferies, gronk, bryant, etc.
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Johnny Manziel has won 33% of the games he's started. McCown has won 47%.
I don't think you needed to create another Manziel thread. We know you love him, he's all you talk about, all you dream about. We get it.
Johnny Manziel has won 33% of the games he's started. McCown has won 47%.
I don't think you needed to create another Manziel thread. We know you love him, he's all you talk about, all you dream about. We get it.
I think you need to go back to school and learn how to calculate simple percentages. You don't divide 18/38.. you divide 18/(38+18) which gives you a career winning percentage of.... 32.1%.
And that is the guy you want leading the Browns. Mr 32%.
"The purpose of the military is to kill people and break things " - mike huckabee -
Johnny Manziel has won 33% of the games he's started. McCown has won 47%.
I don't think you needed to create another Manziel thread. We know you love him, he's all you talk about, all you dream about. We get it.
I think you need to go back to school and learn how to calculate simple percentages. You don't divide 18/38.. you divide 18/(38+18) which gives you a career winning percentage of.... 32.1%.
And that is the guy you want leading the Browns. Mr 32%.
I think you need to go back to school and learn how to calculate simple percentages. You don't divide 18/38.. you divide 18/(38+18) which gives you a career winning percentage of.... 32.1%.
And that is the guy you want leading the Browns. Mr 32%.
I like Cleveland Browns who were associated with 32:
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Johnny Manziel has won 33% of the games he's started. McCown has won 47%.
I don't think you needed to create another Manziel thread. We know you love him, he's all you talk about, all you dream about. We get it.
I think you need to go back to school and learn how to calculate simple percentages. You don't divide 18/38.. you divide 18/(38+18) which gives you a career winning percentage of.... 32.1%.
And that is the guy you want leading the Browns. Mr 32%.
I think you need to go back to school and learn how to calculate simple percentages. You don't divide 18/38.. you divide 18/(38+18) which gives you a career winning percentage of.... 32.1%.
And that is the guy you want leading the Browns. Mr 32%.
Just the other day I was accused of being a Manziel fanboy. I really can't win on here. Mr 25% is the alternative then.
It's Monday and I was operating hungover from first season Christmas ale - cut me some slack I'm actually really proficient at mathematics (graduated with an engineering degree)
I've generally been agreeing that I'd prefer Manziel to start, but McCown hasn't had that bad of a season so far and he's been playing his balls off for us which I respect - while Johnny couldn't care less he'd rather be having a drink and swerving through traffic.
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Austin Davis had a career 3-5 win pct. .375. And that was all just last year with those same Rams we just played.
With 12 TDs and 9 Ints. in those 8 games.
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no Johnny is someone who has made a few career starts....we don't know what johnny's career winning percentage will turn out to be with a sufficient number of starts. Because they haven't happened yet. But when you have 56 career starts....that's different.
It's the difference between saying a 13-1 nfl team is 'really good' vs a 1-0 team. The 13-1 nfl team we know is really good that year. The 1-0 team? Not enough information yet.
This is also a very elementary math concept that my 5th grade niece would get.....of course if simple fractions and percentages proved too much, perhaps that concept is a challenge as well.
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no Johnny is someone who has made a few career starts....we don't know what johnny's career winning percentage will turn out to be with a sufficient number of starts. Because they haven't happened yet. But when you have 56 career starts....that's different.
It's the difference between saying a 13-1 nfl team is 'really good' vs a 1-0 team. The 13-1 nfl team we know is really good that year. The 1-0 team? Not enough information yet.
This is also a very elementary math concept that my 5th grade niece would get.....of course if simple fractions and percentages proved too much, perhaps that concept is a challenge as well.
This is also a very elementary math concept that my 5th grade niece would get.....of course if simple fractions and percentages proved too much, perhaps that concept is a challenge as well.
I understand you're only here because of Johnny and not really a Browns fan, but why don't you stop hurling the personal insults.
What do you do all day, flip burgers and use the left over grease to wank it to the Johnny posters throughout your house?
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no Johnny is someone who has made a few career starts....we don't know what johnny's career winning percentage will turn out to be with a sufficient number of starts. Because they haven't happened yet. But when you have 56 career starts....that's different.
It's the difference between saying a 13-1 nfl team is 'really good' vs a 1-0 team. The 13-1 nfl team we know is really good that year. The 1-0 team? Not enough information yet.
This is also a very elementary math concept that my 5th grade niece would get.....of course if simple fractions and percentages proved too much, perhaps that concept is a challenge as well.
no Johnny is someone who has made a few career starts....we don't know what johnny's career winning percentage will turn out to be with a sufficient number of starts. Because they haven't happened yet. But when you have 56 career starts....that's different.
It's the difference between saying a 13-1 nfl team is 'really good' vs a 1-0 team. The 13-1 nfl team we know is really good that year. The 1-0 team? Not enough information yet.
This is also a very elementary math concept that my 5th grade niece would get.....of course if simple fractions and percentages proved too much, perhaps that concept is a challenge as well.
Except that you're considering a multivariate comparison, which rarely ever determines anything with any sort of consistency. To get a truer comparison, you have to eliminate as many variables as possible.
If you want to get technical with math and stats, I can get technical. I don't think you'll like where the conversation ends up.
Don't belittle people because they made a simple computational error when your point is already fucking stupid.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
no Johnny is someone who has made a few career starts....we don't know what johnny's career winning percentage will turn out to be with a sufficient number of starts. Because they haven't happened yet. But when you have 56 career starts....that's different.
It's the difference between saying a 13-1 nfl team is 'really good' vs a 1-0 team. The 13-1 nfl team we know is really good that year. The 1-0 team? Not enough information yet.
This is also a very elementary math concept that my 5th grade niece would get.....of course if simple fractions and percentages proved too much, perhaps that concept is a challenge as well.
Except that you're considering a multivariate comparison, which rarely ever determines anything with any sort of consistency. To get a truer comparison, you have to eliminate as many variables as possible.
If you want to get technical with math and stats, I can get technical. I don't think you'll like where the conversation ends up.
Don't belittle people because they made a simple computational error when your point is already fucking stupid.
Except that you're considering a multivariate comparison, which rarely ever determines anything with any sort of consistency. To get a truer comparison, you have to eliminate as many variables as possible.
If you want to get technical with math and stats, I can get technical. I don't think you'll like where the conversation ends up.
Don't belittle people because they made a simple computational error when your point is already fucking stupid.
I think it is a stupid point since none of those teams were the team he's currently on. If he was 2 for his last 15 with the Browns team, I'd lead the charge that the backup needs to play. But he's 1-5 (although hard to pin him for the Jets loss imho) in the only games he's played that I give a shit about and has hardly been the reason for the losses. Denver is the only game he played poorly and it wasn't really all that bad. He's playing his ass off for the Browns and I still think he gives the team the best chance to win.
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Except that you're considering a multivariate comparison, which rarely ever determines anything with any sort of consistency. To get a truer comparison, you have to eliminate as many variables as possible.
If you want to get technical with math and stats, I can get technical. I don't think you'll like where the conversation ends up.
Don't belittle people because they made a simple computational error when your point is already fucking stupid.
I think it is a stupid point since none of those teams were the team he's currently on. If he was 2 for his last 15 with the Browns team, I'd lead the charge that the backup needs to play. But he's 1-5 (although hard to pin him for the Jets loss imho) in the only games he's played that I give a shit about and has hardly been the reason for the losses. Denver is the only game he played poorly and it wasn't really all that bad. He's playing his ass off for the Browns and I still think he gives the team the best chance to win.
I think it is a stupid point since none of those teams were the team he's currently on. If he was 2 for his last 15 with the Browns team, I'd lead the charge that the backup needs to play. But he's 1-5 (although hard to pin him for the Jets loss imho) in the only games he's played that I give a shit about and has hardly been the reason for the losses. Denver is the only game he played poorly and it wasn't really all that bad. He's playing his ass off for the Browns and I still think he gives the team the best chance to win.
That's my exact point. What he did for other teams is naught. Granted, he's got a .166667 win percentage with the Browns, so it's not necessarily like he's crushing it here.
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I think it is a stupid point since none of those teams were the team he's currently on. If he was 2 for his last 15 with the Browns team, I'd lead the charge that the backup needs to play. But he's 1-5 (although hard to pin him for the Jets loss imho) in the only games he's played that I give a shit about and has hardly been the reason for the losses. Denver is the only game he played poorly and it wasn't really all that bad. He's playing his ass off for the Browns and I still think he gives the team the best chance to win.
That's my exact point. What he did for other teams is naught. Granted, he's got a .166667 win percentage with the Browns, so it's not necessarily like he's crushing it here.
That's my exact point. What he did for other teams is naught. Granted, he's got a .166667 win percentage with the Browns, so it's not necessarily like he's crushing it here.
And anyone with an objective bone in his/her body can see he's hardly in the top 5 biggest problems this team currently has.
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medicineman- that's a silly attitude to take. The nfl is not college football- there is no reason that we cant be winning shortly. Because of the draft and the MASSIVE player turnover in this league(and the small talent diff from team to team to begin with), a losing team can become a winning team in short time.
medicineman- that's a silly attitude to take. The nfl is not college football- there is no reason that we cant be winning shortly. Because of the draft and the MASSIVE player turnover in this league(and the small talent diff from team to team to begin with), a losing team can become a winning team in short time.
His is not a silly attitude, it's a justified one. You've been saying since '99 that "there's no reason we can't be winning shortly"...to continue saying that going on 17 seasons is what's silly.
As far as McCown, had you known preseason that your QB through 6 games would throw for 8 TD's, 1,686 YDS., 96.1 RTG, and only 3 INT's, you would have takin it in a heartbeat.
McClown sucks because every team he has been on sucked. The browns O line were pushed around by the Rams front like a bunch of sissies. That's not McCowns fault.
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That's my exact point. What he did for other teams is naught. Granted, he's got a .166667 win percentage with the Browns, so it's not necessarily like he's crushing it here.
And anyone with an objective bone in his/her body can see he's hardly in the top 5 biggest problems this team currently has.
And anyone with an objective bone in his/her body can see he's hardly in the top 5 biggest problems this team currently has.
Tacosman is not exactly the most objective person when it comes to discussing the QB position.
McCown has played his balls off and hasn't played too bad while doing it, and it's not like his backup is Aaron Rodgers or anything - it's a little person with a drinking problem.
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