You can't defend this circus anymore.
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What do you mean, you can't trust Saban?
I mean you can't trust him.
He bailed on LSU when it started to get hard there. He bailed on the Dolphins because it was hard there. If he left BAMA now, just as the luster begins fading, then the pattern of not facing adversity would be perpetuated.
Does not sound like the perfect Browns HC candidate to me...
I mean you can't trust him.
He bailed on LSU when it started to get hard there. He bailed on the Dolphins because it was hard there. If he left BAMA now, just as the luster begins fading, then the pattern of not facing adversity would be perpetuated.
Does not sound like the perfect Browns HC candidate to me...
And he bailed out on Michigan State for a place named after it's Academic Standards: The Big Easy.
For all the ribbing the Big 10 took over the years about the competition (and rightfully so); Nick Saban never dominated the Big 10 when he coached there like he did the SEC. I'm far more impressed with Michigan State's program today than I was when Saban was there.
Not for nothing, but our former Offensive Line Coach (Kirk Ferentz) has a bunch of recruits out in the cornfields of Iowa playing undefeated football as recently as last week. I don't know if anyone remembers the last time we won a playoff game; but Ferentz's line put Leroy Hoard in the Pro Bowl that year. We ran the ball through some impressive fronts like Philly (Reggie White, Jerome Brown, Clyde Simmons) and Dallas beating both teams. He's put some good linemen in the Pros like Eric Steinbach, Brian Bulaga, as well as TE Dallas Clark, Safety Bob Sanders. Chris Kirksey was a team Captain for him. The point is - Iowa isn't an ideal recruiting attraction and this guy wins despite it. I'm not sure if he'd want this gig here at his age; but he seems like a forgotten man who's very well respected which would come in handy when it's time to find Assistants.
The reality is Harbaugh wasn't interested in this place the last time he was an ideal HC Candidate. The more we keep firing Head Coaches every 1-2 years - the more the list of interested candidates shrinks down to the Uh-Oh Candidates. We've watched history repeat itself so many times that we know exactly where this is going. For example, Whisenhunt was one of the most interested candidates last time. He won something 1 of his last 8 games in Arizona before going 2-14 last year and 1-5 this year w/ TN.
Even worse, every time this happens - you know what goes viral around the league "you don't want to go to Cleveland." Not only does the recruiting of a decent/experienced Head Coach get tougher but so does recruiting the right kind of FAs.
Our biggest problem over the years has been the cumulative effect of bad drafting. Except for Travis Benjamin, our WR Corps is an absolute joke in a passing era. The little jockeys that are supposed to be so elusive never score TDs. I see more yuck than yac. And we try a bubble screen with that? Oh yeah, the alternative is to ask our QB to throw slant passes downward for little fellers. I like that they try hard and all but this is pro football.
I also read someone in a thread saying our coaches need to TEACH players how to tackle. If professionals don't know how to tackle - you're drafting the wrong guys; and the problem ain't coaching. You don't teach Dick Butkus, Lawrence Taylor or Ronnie Lott how to tackle. That's like drafting Greg Little thinking you can teach him how to catch a football. Is this youth football or pro football? Unfortunately, this is the franchise that kicked the work ethic of Julio Jones off it's doorstep, just so they could show us what they're really capable of in round 1. THAT's the shit that has to change before we head hunt the guy sentenced to playing gridiron chess with pawns.
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TCPO is high. We can't beat Oakland or San Diego but rattle off 4 straight against Arizona, Cincy, Pittsburgh and Baltimore....
Well isn't your boy Manziel likely going to get the start with McCown's shoulder injured?
So wait...you're telling me that Manziel can't win with this team? I could have sworn you were just saying the opposite only a few days ago.
Oh man, what a conundrum.
Well isn't your boy Manziel likely going to get the start with McCown's shoulder injured?
So wait...you're telling me that Manziel can't win with this team? I could have sworn you were just saying the opposite only a few days ago.
Oh man, what a conundrum.
Not a Manziel fan, actually the opposite. I want him to play sooner rather than later so the team can finally move past the Johnny Football Era
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"Whatever, you'll pay to go see it. Fuck you!"
-The Cleveland Browns
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How did it get hard at LSU? He did the equivalent of win a Super Bowl then follow it up by going 12-4.
Miami was likely going to fire him, he just got out ahead. That's what smart people do. He's also got the best agent in the business (save maybe Dwayne Bowe's) in Jimmy Sexton.
He's got a top 5 squad and 5 straight #1 recruiting classes. That's the most blinding fading luster I've ever seen.
Oh, and if he wins us a Super Bowl, goes 0-16 the following year, then retires, he'll still have been the perfect candidate.
Compared to undefeated or once defeated national championships, two-loss seasons are hard. Barring a miracle, 2015 will be the first year Bama has not been ranked #1 at some point in the season. After 7 years of achieving that ranking, that's an early sign of fading.
By contrast his final 9-3 season at LSU ending in a bowl loss had to be torture.
Ask any LSU fan if he bailed on them...
Ask any Fins fan if he bailed on them... and follow up with how much they relish the SB he brought them.
As for his age... you yourself said he's a young 62. Plenty of time for a couple more job hops. Look at what Spurrier has done in his 60's...
Compared to undefeated or once defeated national championships, two-loss seasons are hard. Barring a miracle, 2015 will be the first year Bama has not been ranked #1 at some point in the season. After 7 years of achieving that ranking, that's an early sign of fading.
By contrast his final 9-3 season at LSU ending in a bowl loss had to be torture.
Ask any LSU fan if he bailed on them...
Ask any Fins fan if he bailed on them... and follow up with how much they relish the SB he brought them.
As for his age... you yourself said he's a young 62. Plenty of time for a couple more job hops. Look at what Spurrier has done in his 60's...
I specifically said he does not have a couple more job hops.
He was going to be fired in Miami. I don't care what their fans would tell me. That's a fact.
I also never denied LSU fans are pissed at him. But he did bring them a championship. He earned the right to do whatever he wants.
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At This point I would be happy with 5 wins
At This point I would be happy with 5 wins
At this point in that case our record would be 5-2... works for me.
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Compared to undefeated or once defeated national championships, two-loss seasons are hard. Barring a miracle, 2015 will be the first year Bama has not been ranked #1 at some point in the season. After 7 years of achieving that ranking, that's an early sign of fading.
By contrast his final 9-3 season at LSU ending in a bowl loss had to be torture.
Ask any LSU fan if he bailed on them...
Ask any Fins fan if he bailed on them... and follow up with how much they relish the SB he brought them.
As for his age... you yourself said he's a young 62. Plenty of time for a couple more job hops. Look at what Spurrier has done in his 60's...
I specifically said he does not have a couple more job hops.
He was going to be fired in Miami. I don't care what their fans would tell me. That's a fact.
I also never denied LSU fans are pissed at him. But he did bring them a championship. He earned the right to do whatever he wants.
I specifically said he does not have a couple more job hops.
He was going to be fired in Miami. I don't care what their fans would tell me. That's a fact.
I also never denied LSU fans are pissed at him. But he did bring them a championship. He earned the right to do whatever he wants.
Back to the topic.
Parcells once said if I'm gonna be graded on how I cook the meal - you better let me buy the groceries. Who else besides Walter looks at a WR Corps that rarely ever scores TDs in the red zone and thinks - it's the damn coach not the GM.
Whether one wanted Manziel here or not - who thinks it was a fabulous idea to draft a QB that many of our scouts and coaches didn't want?
Who thinks Josh Gordon is REALLY going to be worth waiting for this time he screws up? "He's gonna" as it pertains to its tradition in Cleveland always means "he still hasn't." How many different colleges did he fool before our front office learned history repeats itself? Who saw a football soul in this guy?
These are first round draft picks in recent years:
Phil Taylor
Bark Mingo (let me guess - all he needed was to be taught how to tackle? Super, we can use him in coverage on passing downs)
Trent Richardson
Brandon Weeden
Cam Erving
Justin Gilbert
Johnny Manziel
Danny Shelton (first year he's been asked to run wind sprints between snaps so I'll wait this one out)
In a passing era we don't consider drafting WRs like Julio Jones, O'Dell Beckham, Allen Robinson, Mike Evans, Jarvis Landry, Keenan Allen especially when we can either wait until round 2 to draft Greg Little (so we can TEACH him how to catch a football) or sign a has-been FA like Dwayne Bowe that has no reason to care about suiting up. Anyone really think our only problem is the Head Coach?
Our WR Corps only caught 8 TD passes in 2014:
Benjamin 3
Austin 2
Hawkins 2
Gabriel 1
Great reason for Farmer to be way too cool to try to help the QB position out in the red zone. COACHING is actually getting the ball to our best play makers (Barnidge & Benjamin) in the game plans; but teams can load up on them. We're stuck with 2 knee high slot receivers (trying to pawn one off as something different) that can't ever score TDs, break tackles or hurdle grass blades. Elusive?
Want to know what it's like playing gridiron chess in Cleveland? Challenge someone to a game of chess and let your opponent use all his attack pieces while you just use pawns. Let me know how smart you look at the end of that one. It's like being in the SEC and choosing to waste your scholarships on kids that should be playing Division III football while the competition is recruiting kids like Julio Jones, Amari Cooper, O'Dell Beckham, Jarvis Landry, AJ Green and Patrick's Peter's-son. Is this really that tough when I see Oakland drafting Khalil Mack and Derek Carr in 1 draft before drafting Amari Cooper and adding Michael Crabtree a year later. What do we do? We draft Justin Gilbert and a QB that creates another Armaggedon in the front office to the extent the coaching staff never wants to see what they have in him. That sucks for a lot more than 1 guy's future here. 1 coach hated it so much - he's now in an environment in Atlanta that will make him a Head Coaching Candidate with Julio Jones outside, Matt Ryan at QB and a RB capitalizing on all the Safety attention Julio steals as well as the zbs.
Since 1999, ownership in Cleveland hasn't quite figured out the difference between the illness killing this team and the inevitable symptoms of that. That's prolly why guys like AL Golden and Ken Whisenhunt are going to be the only ones interested in a Head Coaching vacancy here. We've watched countless Head Coaches get fired here since 1999; and yet it's never led to the upgrade worth keeping. What cracks me up is that guys like Walter White who HATE every single Head Coach the ownership selection criteria chooses - can't wait to get right back to the process they don't trust whatsoever. Make sense? It shouldn't...
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
@douche-nozzle said:
Pettine is not the problem.
Manziel is not the answer.
So, despite the "fire the coach and start my guy" having "NEVER" worked in the history of the NFL........ AND......despite the fact that the Browns have been the team most guilty of trying it; you want to try it one more time?
"I know it's a two headed coin, but I'm sick of heads, flip it one more time to see if it comes up tails"
I wish it was that easy but every time it's heads - we clean house and it's still 1999. No matter how many times one needs to re-watch Old Yellar - the ending never changes. Watching it 1 more time isn't the solution. Time for different strategy than firing a Head Coach just so we can choose between Ken Whisenhunt and Al Golden (most likely to be the only resumes interested in this situation). Time to correct the person in charge of personnel so whoever IS coaching stands a chance this time around.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
@douche-nozzle said:
Pettine is not the problem.
Manziel is not the answer.
So, despite the "fire the coach and start my guy" having "NEVER" worked in the history of the NFL........ AND......despite the fact that the Browns have been the team most guilty of trying it; you want to try it one more time?
"I know it's a two headed coin, but I'm sick of heads, flip it one more time to see if it comes up tails"
I don't want to see firings but I am disappointed in the mental mistakes by this team. I disagree with those who say they quit on Pettine because I think Pettine does get them to play hard but do they play smart? Shooting themselves in the foot too many times is not playing smart football. Having only 10 men on the field when the Rams scored their TD is not excusable. Week after week Pettine talks about the mistakes and penalties but they don't get them cleaned up and that is troubling. The Browns always seem to miss the opportunity to get momentum in a game. They don't seize the opportunity like in the Denver game getting an interception at the 39 in OT and not scoring, or not scoring in the red zone and settling for field goals and if the offense does score and we get a momentum shift the defense lets down quickly.
I have seen spurts of a much better team than 2-5 but we just can't get complete games on offense and defense without the breakdowns, mistakes and penalties.
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@douche-nozzle said:
Pettine is not the problem.
Manziel is not the answer.
OK, so the Great and Mighty Wizard of Oz, What in your opinion is/are the problems......and what are the answers?
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@douche-nozzle said:
Pettine is not the problem.
Manziel is not the answer.
OK, so the Great and Mighty Wizard of Oz, What in your opinion is/are the problems......and what are the answers?
@douche-nozzle said:
Pettine is not the problem.
Manziel is not the answer.
OK, so the Great and Mighty Wizard of Oz, What in your opinion is/are the problems......and what are the answers?
I'll take a crack at this one.
Problems:
We're a team with a brand new offensive coordinator, a stable of unproven WR's, a journeyman QB, an offensive line learning a new system, and a defensive coordinator who is implementing a confusing system.
Answers:
Shut the fuck up and wait. No team that turns it around in one season is built for sustained success. No team that drafts a QB every two years is built for sustained success. No team that fires their head coach every other season is built for sustained success. So shut the fuck up and wait.
There's such a thing as firing a coordinator and not firing a head coach. Ask Baltimore, ask San Francisco...they did it a bunch of times. The only project that needs scrapped at this point in time is O'Neil, he's proven to be over his head. Pettine needs to relieve O'Neil of his playcalling duties and take control of his defense. Flip can handle the offense just fine on his own.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
@douche-nozzle said:
Pettine is not the problem.
Manziel is not the answer.
OK, so the Great and Mighty Wizard of Oz, What in your opinion is/are the problems......and what are the answers?
I'll take a crack at this one.
Problems:
We're a team with a brand new offensive coordinator, a stable of unproven WR's, a journeyman QB, an offensive line learning a new system, and a defensive coordinator who is implementing a confusing system.
Answers:
Shut the fuck up and wait. No team that turns it around in one season is built for sustained success. No team that drafts a QB every two years is built for sustained success. No team that fires their head coach every other season is built for sustained success. So shut the fuck up and wait.
There's such a thing as firing a coordinator and not firing a head coach. Ask Baltimore, ask San Francisco...they did it a bunch of times. The only project that needs scrapped at this point in time is O'Neil, he's proven to be over his head. Pettine needs to relieve O'Neil of his playcalling duties and take control of his defense. Flip can handle the offense just fine on his own.
I'll take a crack at this one.
Problems:
We're a team with a brand new offensive coordinator, a stable of unproven WR's, a journeyman QB, an offensive line learning a new system, and a defensive coordinator who is implementing a confusing system.
Answers:
Shut the fuck up and wait. No team that turns it around in one season is built for sustained success. No team that drafts a QB every two years is built for sustained success. No team that fires their head coach every other season is built for sustained success. So shut the fuck up and wait.
There's such a thing as firing a coordinator and not firing a head coach. Ask Baltimore, ask San Francisco...they did it a bunch of times. The only project that needs scrapped at this point in time is O'Neil, he's proven to be over his head. Pettine needs to relieve O'Neil of his playcalling duties and take control of his defense. Flip can handle the offense just find on his own.
All fair enough. What about Farmer?
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@douche-nozzle said:
Pettine is not the problem.
Manziel is not the answer.
So, despite the "fire the coach and start my guy" having "NEVER" worked in the history of the NFL........ AND......despite the fact that the Browns have been the team most guilty of trying it; you want to try it one more time?
"I know it's a two headed coin, but I'm sick of heads, flip it one more time to see if it comes up tails"
I wish it was that easy but every time it's heads - we clean house and it's still 1999. No matter how many times one needs to re-watch Old Yellar - the ending never changes. Watching it 1 more time isn't the solution. Time for different strategy than firing a Head Coach just so we can choose between Ken Whisenhunt and Al Golden (most likely to be the only resumes interested in this situation). Time to correct the person in charge of personnel so whoever IS coaching stands a chance this time around.
I wish it was that easy but every time it's heads - we clean house and it's still 1999. No matter how many times one needs to re-watch Old Yellar - the ending never changes. Watching it 1 more time isn't the solution. Time for different strategy than firing a Head Coach just so we can choose between Ken Whisenhunt and Al Golden (most likely to be the only resumes interested in this situation). Time to correct the person in charge of personnel so whoever IS coaching stands a chance this time around.
Great Post!
While listening to Bull & Fox yesterday, Adam "The Bull" did some research over the players drafted from 2010-2013 in the AFCN.
The Ratbirds still have 33% of those players on their roster.
The Stoolers still have 43% of those players on their roster.
The Bungholes still have 49% of those players on their roster.
The Browns only 18% of those players still on the roster.
It doesn't take a Rhodes Scholar to figure out that Cleveland can't fucking draft good players.
It's not a knock on Farmer because the 2014-2015 weren't included, but my gut feeling is he can't draft worth a shit either.
Haslam really needs to get a personnel guy that CAN evaluate talent.
Until he does, it's going to be Groundhog day all over again.
Two things that will define you: Your determination when you have nothing. Your attitude when you have everything. - Mike McCartney -
I specifically said he does not have a couple more job hops.
He was going to be fired in Miami. I don't care what their fans would tell me. That's a fact.
I also never denied LSU fans are pissed at him. But he did bring them a championship. He earned the right to do whatever he wants.
Back to the topic.
Parcells once said if I'm gonna be graded on how I cook the meal - you better let me buy the groceries. Who else besides Walter looks at a WR Corps that rarely ever scores TDs in the red zone and thinks - it's the damn coach not the GM.
Whether one wanted Manziel here or not - who thinks it was a fabulous idea to draft a QB that many of our scouts and coaches didn't want?
Who thinks Josh Gordon is REALLY going to be worth waiting for this time he screws up? "He's gonna" as it pertains to its tradition in Cleveland always means "he still hasn't." How many different colleges did he fool before our front office learned history repeats itself? Who saw a football soul in this guy?
These are first round draft picks in recent years:
Phil Taylor
Bark Mingo (let me guess - all he needed was to be taught how to tackle? Super, we can use him in coverage on passing downs)
Trent Richardson
Brandon Weeden
Cam Erving
Justin Gilbert
Johnny Manziel
Danny Shelton (first year he's been asked to run wind sprints between snaps so I'll wait this one out)
In a passing era we don't consider drafting WRs like Julio Jones, O'Dell Beckham, Allen Robinson, Mike Evans, Jarvis Landry, Keenan Allen especially when we can either wait until round 2 to draft Greg Little (so we can TEACH him how to catch a football) or sign a has-been FA like Dwayne Bowe that has no reason to care about suiting up. Anyone really think our only problem is the Head Coach?
Our WR Corps only caught 8 TD passes in 2014:
Benjamin 3
Austin 2
Hawkins 2
Gabriel 1
Great reason for Farmer to be way too cool to try to help the QB position out in the red zone. COACHING is actually getting the ball to our best play makers (Barnidge & Benjamin) in the game plans; but teams can load up on them. We're stuck with 2 knee high slot receivers (trying to pawn one off as something different) that can't ever score TDs, break tackles or hurdle grass blades. Elusive?
Want to know what it's like playing gridiron chess in Cleveland? Challenge someone to a game of chess and let your opponent use all his attack pieces while you just use pawns. Let me know how smart you look at the end of that one. It's like being in the SEC and choosing to waste your scholarships on kids that should be playing Division III football while the competition is recruiting kids like Julio Jones, Amari Cooper, O'Dell Beckham, Jarvis Landry, AJ Green and Patrick's Peter's-son. Is this really that tough when I see Oakland drafting Khalil Mack and Derek Carr in 1 draft before drafting Amari Cooper and adding Michael Crabtree a year later. What do we do? We draft Justin Gilbert and a QB that creates another Armaggedon in the front office to the extent the coaching staff never wants to see what they have in him. That sucks for a lot more than 1 guy's future here. 1 coach hated it so much - he's now in an environment in Atlanta that will make him a Head Coaching Candidate with Julio Jones outside, Matt Ryan at QB and a RB capitalizing on all the Safety attention Julio steals as well as the zbs.
Since 1999, ownership in Cleveland hasn't quite figured out the difference between the illness killing this team and the inevitable symptoms of that. That's prolly why guys like AL Golden and Ken Whisenhunt are going to be the only ones interested in a Head Coaching vacancy here. We've watched countless Head Coaches get fired here since 1999; and yet it's never led to the upgrade worth keeping. What cracks me up is that guys like Walter White who HATE every single Head Coach the ownership selection criteria chooses - can't wait to get right back to the process they don't trust whatsoever. Make sense? It shouldn't...
That Farmer seems to have "the touch" on Days 2 and 3 is perplexing. Could be he overcomplicates Day 1 by looking for the value no one else sees.
What cracks me up is that guys like Walter White who HATE every single Head Coach the ownership selection criteria chooses - can't wait to get right back to the process they don't trust whatsoever. Make sense? It shouldn't...
... and now it cracks me up. Great observation...
There's such a thing as firing a coordinator and not firing a head coach. Ask Baltimore, ask San Francisco...they did it a bunch of times. The only project that needs scrapped at this point in time is O'Neil, he's proven to be over his head. Pettine needs to relieve O'Neil of his playcalling duties and take control of his defense. Flip can handle the offense just find on his own.
Add Detroit to your list of Coordinator pruners...
I'd have thought Pet would have refocused on his D by now, but his presser comments indicate he's still focused on the O, e.g., being in the QB room "a lot".
So far in my Rams' game-tape sessions, Pet has been more chatty than usual on his headset during sideline shots. I might be wrong, but I'd think prolonged conversations would be around the group not on the field at the time... and that would mean with the D staff.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Pettine isn't getting fired. Saban isn't coming to Cleveland. We're still going to win 8 games. O'Neil will be fired. Manziel will be our QB. We will take a DE/LB in the first round of next year's draft.
Calm the fuck down, it was our worst game of the year but it's not the end of the world. Manziel will start next week if McCown can't, he'll probably throw for about 275 yards and two touchdowns, may throw an interception but will more likely fumble at least once, and we'll put together another relatively strong offensive performance but ultimately lose because of our defense.
Then we'll fire O'Neil.
Pettine isn't getting fired. Saban isn't coming to Cleveland. We're still going to win 8 games. O'Neil will be fired. Manziel will be our QB. We will take a DE/LB in the first round of next year's draft.
Calm the fuck down, it was our worst game of the year but it's not the end of the world. Manziel will start next week if McCown can't, he'll probably throw for about 275 yards and two touchdowns, may throw an interception but will more likely fumble at least once, and we'll put together another relatively strong offensive performance but ultimately lose because of our defense.
Then we'll fire O'Neil.
TCPO- this is what bothers me about Pettine- he was ragging on Manziel about "ball security"- but McCown gets a pass when he coughs up the ball twice in one game? Just a vague "we made plenty of mistakes". Well, no shit Sherlock. So what you going to do about it?
Back to the topic.
Parcells once said if I'm gonna be graded on how I cook the meal - you better let me buy the groceries. Who else besides Walter looks at a WR Corps that rarely ever scores TDs in the red zone and thinks - it's the damn coach not the GM.
Whether one wanted Manziel here or not - who thinks it was a fabulous idea to draft a QB that many of our scouts and coaches didn't want?
Who thinks Josh Gordon is REALLY going to be worth waiting for this time he screws up? "He's gonna" as it pertains to its tradition in Cleveland always means "he still hasn't." How many different colleges did he fool before our front office learned history repeats itself? Who saw a football soul in this guy?
These are first round draft picks in recent years:
Phil Taylor
Bark Mingo (let me guess - all he needed was to be taught how to tackle? Super, we can use him in coverage on passing downs)
Trent Richardson
Brandon Weeden
Cam Erving
Justin Gilbert
Johnny Manziel
Danny Shelton (first year he's been asked to run wind sprints between snaps so I'll wait this one out)
In a passing era we don't consider drafting WRs like Julio Jones, O'Dell Beckham, Allen Robinson, Mike Evans, Jarvis Landry, Keenan Allen especially when we can either wait until round 2 to draft Greg Little (so we can TEACH him how to catch a football) or sign a has-been FA like Dwayne Bowe that has no reason to care about suiting up. Anyone really think our only problem is the Head Coach?
Our WR Corps only caught 8 TD passes in 2014:
Benjamin 3
Austin 2
Hawkins 2
Gabriel 1
Great reason for Farmer to be way too cool to try to help the QB position out in the red zone. COACHING is actually getting the ball to our best play makers (Barnidge & Benjamin) in the game plans; but teams can load up on them. We're stuck with 2 knee high slot receivers (trying to pawn one off as something different) that can't ever score TDs, break tackles or hurdle grass blades. Elusive?
Want to know what it's like playing gridiron chess in Cleveland? Challenge someone to a game of chess and let your opponent use all his attack pieces while you just use pawns. Let me know how smart you look at the end of that one. It's like being in the SEC and choosing to waste your scholarships on kids that should be playing Division III football while the competition is recruiting kids like Julio Jones, Amari Cooper, O'Dell Beckham, Jarvis Landry, AJ Green and Patrick's Peter's-son. Is this really that tough when I see Oakland drafting Khalil Mack and Derek Carr in 1 draft before drafting Amari Cooper and adding Michael Crabtree a year later. What do we do? We draft Justin Gilbert and a QB that creates another Armaggedon in the front office to the extent the coaching staff never wants to see what they have in him. That sucks for a lot more than 1 guy's future here. 1 coach hated it so much - he's now in an environment in Atlanta that will make him a Head Coaching Candidate with Julio Jones outside, Matt Ryan at QB and a RB capitalizing on all the Safety attention Julio steals as well as the zbs.
Since 1999, ownership in Cleveland hasn't quite figured out the difference between the illness killing this team and the inevitable symptoms of that. That's prolly why guys like AL Golden and Ken Whisenhunt are going to be the only ones interested in a Head Coaching vacancy here. We've watched countless Head Coaches get fired here since 1999; and yet it's never led to the upgrade worth keeping. What cracks me up is that guys like Walter White who HATE every single Head Coach the ownership selection criteria chooses - can't wait to get right back to the process they don't trust whatsoever. Make sense? It shouldn't...
Excellent, excellent analysis Tom. I still have hope that Josh Gordon has finally cleaned up his act- but I'm not counting on it. We need some big stud wrs that actually can take a pounding over the middle. Blowe is happy to be inactive and collect his big paychecks. Time after time in the Rams game I saw our smurfs run crossing routes over the middle- and get killed for trying.
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I wish it was that easy but every time it's heads - we clean house and it's still 1999. No matter how many times one needs to re-watch Old Yellar - the ending never changes. Watching it 1 more time isn't the solution. Time for different strategy than firing a Head Coach just so we can choose between Ken Whisenhunt and Al Golden (most likely to be the only resumes interested in this situation). Time to correct the person in charge of personnel so whoever IS coaching stands a chance this time around.
Great Post!
While listening to Bull & Fox yesterday, Adam "The Bull" did some research over the players drafted from 2010-2013 in the AFCN.
The Ratbirds still have 33% of those players on their roster.
The Stoolers still have 43% of those players on their roster.
The Bungholes still have 49% of those players on their roster.
The Browns only 18% of those players still on the roster.
It doesn't take a Rhodes Scholar to figure out that Cleveland can't fucking draft good players.
It's not a knock on Farmer because the 2014-2015 weren't included, but my gut feeling is he can't draft worth a shit either.
Haslam really needs to get a personnel guy that CAN evaluate talent.
Until he does, it's going to be Groundhog day all over again.
Great Post!
While listening to Bull & Fox yesterday, Adam "The Bull" did some research over the players drafted from 2010-2013 in the AFCN.
The Ratbirds still have 33% of those players on their roster.
The Stoolers still have 43% of those players on their roster.
The Bungholes still have 49% of those players on their roster.
The Browns only 18% of those players still on the roster.
It doesn't take a Rhodes Scholar to figure out that Cleveland can't fucking draft good players.
It's not a knock on Farmer because the 2014-2015 weren't included, but my gut feeling is he can't draft worth a shit either.
Haslam really needs to get a personnel guy that CAN evaluate talent.
Until he does, it's going to be Groundhog day all over again.
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@douche-nozzle said:
Pettine is not the problem.
Manziel is not the answer.
OK, so the Great and Mighty Wizard of Oz, What in your opinion is/are the problems......and what are the answers?
I'll take a crack at this one.
Problems:
We're a team with a brand new offensive coordinator, a stable of unproven WR's, a journeyman QB, an offensive line learning a new system, and a defensive coordinator who is implementing a confusing system.
Answers:
Shut the fuck up and wait. No team that turns it around in one season is built for sustained success. No team that drafts a QB every two years is built for sustained success. No team that fires their head coach every other season is built for sustained success. So shut the fuck up and wait.
There's such a thing as firing a coordinator and not firing a head coach. Ask Baltimore, ask San Francisco...they did it a bunch of times. The only project that needs scrapped at this point in time is O'Neil, he's proven to be over his head. Pettine needs to relieve O'Neil of his playcalling duties and take control of his defense. Flip can handle the offense just fine on his own.
I'll take a crack at this one.
Problems:
We're a team with a brand new offensive coordinator, a stable of unproven WR's, a journeyman QB, an offensive line learning a new system, and a defensive coordinator who is implementing a confusing system.
Answers:
Shut the fuck up and wait. No team that turns it around in one season is built for sustained success. No team that drafts a QB every two years is built for sustained success. No team that fires their head coach every other season is built for sustained success. So shut the fuck up and wait.
There's such a thing as firing a coordinator and not firing a head coach. Ask Baltimore, ask San Francisco...they did it a bunch of times. The only project that needs scrapped at this point in time is O'Neil, he's proven to be over his head. Pettine needs to relieve O'Neil of his playcalling duties and take control of his defense. Flip can handle the offense just fine on his own.
The problem with your "fire the coordinator, not the head coach" argument is that that is usually done with a head coach who has a PROVEN TRACK RECORD or is otherwise so highly thought of that more time and another chance is needed. We saw this with Baltimore and Harbaugh's offensive coordinator a few years ago for example. John Harbaugh had a proven record as a good head coach then. We also just saw it with detroit and a head coach who definately sucks(caldwell), and all indications are that he will be fired at the end of the year too. Jim Caldwell isnt going to get another season with detroit.
Mike Pettine doesn't have any such track record. He isn't on anyones radar as a promising head coach. What he is on his way to is getting shitcanned....and hopefully it happens at the end of this year and not later.
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I'll take a crack at this one.
Problems:
We're a team with a brand new offensive coordinator, a stable of unproven WR's, a journeyman QB, an offensive line learning a new system, and a defensive coordinator who is implementing a confusing system.
Answers:
Shut the fuck up and wait. No team that turns it around in one season is built for sustained success. No team that drafts a QB every two years is built for sustained success. No team that fires their head coach every other season is built for sustained success. So shut the fuck up and wait.
There's such a thing as firing a coordinator and not firing a head coach. Ask Baltimore, ask San Francisco...they did it a bunch of times. The only project that needs scrapped at this point in time is O'Neil, he's proven to be over his head. Pettine needs to relieve O'Neil of his playcalling duties and take control of his defense. Flip can handle the offense just fine on his own.
The problem with your "fire the coordinator, not the head coach" argument is that that is usually done with a head coach who has a PROVEN TRACK RECORD or is otherwise so highly thought of that more time and another chance is needed. We saw this with Baltimore and Harbaugh's offensive coordinator a few years ago for example. John Harbaugh had a proven record as a good head coach then. We also just saw it with detroit and a head coach who definately sucks(caldwell), and all indications are that he will be fired at the end of the year too. Jim Caldwell isnt going to get another season with detroit.
Mike Pettine doesn't have any such track record. He isn't on anyones radar as a promising head coach. What he is on his way to is getting shitcanned....and hopefully it happens at the end of this year and not later.
Mike Pettine doesn't have any such track record. He isn't on anyones radar as a promising head coach. What he is on his way to is getting shitcanned....and hopefully it happens at the end of this year and not later.
And hire who? And how long does this guy get to turn everything around? It better not be very long before this new savior you propose we bring in turns the franchise around because its going to be a tough sell to the fans who buy the tickets to be patient while we "rebuild" once again.
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Mike Pettine doesn't have any such track record. He isn't on anyones radar as a promising head coach. What he is on his way to is getting shitcanned....and hopefully it happens at the end of this year and not later.
And hire who? And how long does this guy get to turn everything around? It better not be very long before this new savior you propose we bring in turns the franchise around because its going to be a tough sell to the fans who buy the tickets to be patient while we "rebuild" once again.
And hire who? And how long does this guy get to turn everything around? It better not be very long before this new savior you propose we bring in turns the franchise around because its going to be a tough sell to the fans who buy the tickets to be patient while we "rebuild" once again.
How about this guy......or his clone:
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And hire who? And how long does this guy get to turn everything around? It better not be very long before this new savior you propose we bring in turns the franchise around because its going to be a tough sell to the fans who buy the tickets to be patient while we "rebuild" once again.
How about this guy......or his clone:
How about this guy......or his clone:
Interesting topic... not sure how many of yesteryears' "tyrannical" HCs would be successful in today's NFL.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
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