I'm normally positive, but I want Pettine gone NOW!
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Yup... the pain and injury difference... I thought initially it was aggravation of his shoulder, but clearly was not the case. Sounds now like it was rib cartilage. Painful as hell... hurts to breathe let alone fall or get hit.
Probably the bravest effort by a Browns QB since Bernie played on his broken ankle...
I said in the tavern the rest of the team did not deserve McC's painful effort. It's likely that was an overstatement about the team, but it obviously goes for a chunk of the fanbase as well.
Yeah... lookin' at you again Walter...
Hey, no one can question McCown's courage Tour- but the bottom line is we still lost. I'll take another look at the tape, but MHO is that horrendous interception is all on Josh. That was truly a game changer.
The Bengals pass rush will be worse.
Hey, no one can question McCown's courage Tour- but the bottom line is we still lost. I'll take another look at the tape, but MHO is that horrendous interception is all on Josh. That was truly a game changer.
The Bengals pass rush will be worse.
First... we got the Bengals number.
Second... yes, bad pass, ugliest one McC threw all day. Wobbly with too much air under it. But it was not into double coverage as you claimed in the Tavern. It was into the wind from what I understood about the game conditions.
The Safety who made the interception was simply playing centerfield. Doesn't mean the pick wasn't on Josh, it was... just a different source of error. At least as I saw it...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Yup... the pain and injury difference... I thought initially it was aggravation of his shoulder, but clearly was not the case. Sounds now like it was rib cartilage. Painful as hell... hurts to breathe let alone fall or get hit.
Probably the bravest effort by a Browns QB since Bernie played on his broken ankle...
I said in the tavern the rest of the team did not deserve McC's painful effort. It's likely that was an overstatement about the team, but it obviously goes for a chunk of the fanbase as well.
Yeah... lookin' at you again Walter...
Hey, no one can question McCown's courage Tour- but the bottom line is we still lost. I'll take another look at the tape, but MHO is that horrendous interception is all on Josh. That was truly a game changer.
The Bengals pass rush will be worse.
Hey, no one can question McCown's courage Tour- but the bottom line is we still lost. I'll take another look at the tape, but MHO is that horrendous interception is all on Josh. That was truly a game changer.
The Bengals pass rush will be worse.
Yes.....McCown made a bad pass on the interception. He played an excellent game, consideriing all other factors. In fact....he played way above the level of any other player on that team. If you're suggesting Manziel would have done better...well.... I'm laughing my ass off.
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Manziel wasn't one hit away from having jagged rib bits jammed into his lungs. If it's clear we're not going to win why are you trying to get mccown killed?
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Every week we seem to have major issues with the way Pettine handles the in-game coaching. Whether it's time management, awful playcalling during crunch time, or personnel groupings...this guy just can't seem to get it right. This week, it's once again time management in my eyes. Right before the half, we needed ONE first down to prevent the Cards from getting the ball before halftime. Do you think we could get just ONE first down? Why no...no we can't. I understand running the ball on first and second down, I really do. But on 3rd and 5, we ran the ball yet again. Even the announcers liked the call, but I didn't. I completely understand that you don't want the clock to stop, but for the love of god, you have to get that first down! We're really lucky we didn't give up a freaking touchdown at the end of the game. We got bailed out by a silly penalty, but the WR made an incredible play. That's one thing, and here's the next:
Johnny Manziel. I believe our first five possessions of the second half went something like this: Punt, punt, punt, McCown pummled-punt, McCown pummled-punt. I know McCown is tough, and I have a TON of respect for the guy, but at some point the coach has to make a decision in the best interest of both the team and his player. Pettine refused to do this. Listen, I am NOT saying Manziel would've done ANY better, but McCown did NOT deserve to get his ass beaten to hell and back. I am certainly not putting this loss on McCown, as we had some killer drops (I'm talking to YOU Hartline).
And maybe Manziel DOES come in and do something. With absolutely ZERO threat of running the ball, the Cardinals could unleash their pass rush and come after us on EVERY play. Perhaps a more mobile QB could help offset this, no? We weren't going to win the damn game. Heck, we gave up 27 UNANSWERED POINTS for crying out loud. Why keep Josh in the game?
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Probably a mistake, I wouldn't be willing to crucify pettine over it though.
McCown really wanted to stay in, said he was fine. He put too much trust into him probably but it's something Pett could learn from.
Everybody saying he hates Manziel and has it out to get him is likely wrong, I think it's more like he trusts his starting quarterback a lot.
I have a hard time seeing McCown being able to go Thursday - so everybody will get their wish and be able to see Johnny. Then after the game everybody can load up the excuses about how pettine sucks and run game sucks and defense sucks - not Johnny's fault.
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Ive been a staunch Pettine defender the whole time and am starting to question a lot of things.....really liked his tough stance with rookies and such, but feel like its going a bit too far now........
Im seeing poor game time decisions, poor clock management and poor choices at the coordinator positions....I think the lack of experience, by having rookies & beginners making up the ENTIRE coaching staff and front office, is really starting to show.....
1) Stop with all the cute situational packages and just put the best players out there....let them get in the flow of the game dammit...
That means put one RB in and let him play....put your best DL in and leave them there......etc etc....when players come in and out and in and out and in and out, no one gets into the flow.....simple......
2) Stop punishing everybody who you dont like and play a few guys who might actually help out...Hey Mike, instead of sitting the guy who doesnt practice well, how about sitting the guys who SUCK DURING THE GAMES???.....eh?.....
3) And Mike, youve always been a straight shooter, so stop saying just a tweak here or there....the problems are bigger than that....man up, say we suck, take some drastic measures and get this train rolling again......
4) McCown should have been pulled....yes, I said that......look, NFL coaches switch QB's all the time.....sometimes a backup can spark the team.....and when your guy is literally broken?, sit him......we should have seen JF for most of the second half...
5) When your receiver is dropping everything, why not try another one?.....Bowe might have caught those Hartline drops....maybe maybe not.....but we will never know because he will never play.....is it Bowes decision to sit or Petts?....
6) And it was REALLY stupid to allow trade rumors to hit the street on a Sunday morning.....wtf is wrong with you guys?.....our FO has been a steel trap for keeping things secret, yet suddenly, rumors of a JT trade hit on the morning of a game?.......screw that.....
Honestly.....Im pretty disgusted with it all.....
Oh yeah.....I forgot.....when you have a guy like Duke Johnson, who is ripping ass in the short passing game, you DONT SIT HIS ASS DOWN RIGHT AFTER HE GETS 60 YARDS IN THE FIRST 1/2.....WTF ARE YOU DOING? TRYING TO TRICK THE OTHER TEAM?.....WHY, WHENEVER SOMEONE PLAYS WELL, DO WE SIT THEM???......
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Ive been a staunch Pettine defender the whole time and am starting to question a lot of things.....really liked his tough stance with rookies and such, but feel like its going a bit too far now........
Im seeing poor game time decisions, poor clock management and poor choices at the coordinator positions....I think the lack of experience, by having rookies & beginners making up the ENTIRE coaching staff and front office, is really starting to show.....
1) Stop with all the cute situational packages and just put the best players out there....let them get in the flow of the game dammit...
That means put one RB in and let him play....put your best DL in and leave them there......etc etc....when players come in and out and in and out and in and out, no one gets into the flow.....simple......
2) Stop punishing everybody who you dont like and play a few guys who might actually help out...Hey Mike, instead of sitting the guy who doesnt practice well, how about sitting the guys who SUCK DURING THE GAMES???.....eh?.....
3) And Mike, youve always been a straight shooter, so stop saying just a tweak here or there....the problems are bigger than that....man up, say we suck, take some drastic measures and get this train rolling again......
4) McCown should have been pulled....yes, I said that......look, NFL coaches switch QB's all the time.....sometimes a backup can spark the team.....and when your guy is literally broken?, sit him......we should have seen JF for most of the second half...
5) When your receiver is dropping everything, why not try another one?.....Bowe might have caught those Hartline drops....maybe maybe not.....but we will never know because he will never play.....is it Bowes decision to sit or Petts?....
6) And it was REALLY stupid to allow trade rumors to hit the street on a Sunday morning.....wtf is wrong with you guys?.....our FO has been a steel trap for keeping things secret, yet suddenly, rumors of a JT trade hit on the morning of a game?.......screw that.....
Honestly.....Im pretty disgusted with it all.....
Oh yeah.....I forgot.....when you have a guy like Duke Johnson, who is ripping ass in the short passing game, you DONT SIT HIS ASS DOWN RIGHT AFTER HE GETS 60 YARDS IN THE FIRST 1/2.....WTF ARE YOU DOING? TRYING TO TRICK THE OTHER TEAM?.....WHY, WHENEVER SOMEONE PLAYS WELL, DO WE SIT THEM???......
Ive been a staunch Pettine defender the whole time and am starting to question a lot of things.....really liked his tough stance with rookies and such, but feel like its going a bit too far now........
Im seeing poor game time decisions, poor clock management and poor choices at the coordinator positions....I think the lack of experience, by having rookies & beginners making up the ENTIRE coaching staff and front office, is really starting to show.....
1) Stop with all the cute situational packages and just put the best players out there....let them get in the flow of the game dammit...
That means put one RB in and let him play....put your best DL in and leave them there......etc etc....when players come in and out and in and out and in and out, no one gets into the flow.....simple......
2) Stop punishing everybody who you dont like and play a few guys who might actually help out...Hey Mike, instead of sitting the guy who doesnt practice well, how about sitting the guys who SUCK DURING THE GAMES???.....eh?.....
3) And Mike, youve always been a straight shooter, so stop saying just a tweak here or there....the problems are bigger than that....man up, say we suck, take some drastic measures and get this train rolling again......
4) McCown should have been pulled....yes, I said that......look, NFL coaches switch QB's all the time.....sometimes a backup can spark the team.....and when your guy is literally broken?, sit him......we should have seen JF for most of the second half...
5) When your receiver is dropping everything, why not try another one?.....Bowe might have caught those Hartline drops....maybe maybe not.....but we will never know because he will never play.....is it Bowes decision to sit or Petts?....
6) And it was REALLY stupid to allow trade rumors to hit the street on a Sunday morning.....wtf is wrong with you guys?.....our FO has been a steel trap for keeping things secret, yet suddenly, rumors of a JT trade hit on the morning of a game?.......screw that.....
Honestly.....Im pretty disgusted with it all.....
Very well rounded post here. My opinion of the McCown situation is simple-if we were in the heart of the playoff race and McCown was the dude then yeah, let it ride. But we're not and he's not, so swallow your damn pride and get a guy who has been all but murdered off the field in a game where the wheels have fallen off. Pettine's hubris is showing strong and is a considerable factor to why we're losing. As Mud notes we leave players with potential on the bench to see the garbage on the field, because they are your guys? Just saying overall that's the stuff that gets you fired and quick, but jesus another coach sounds awful at the same time.
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To me...I guess the head coach can stay...Pettine does have some good attributes and I do like him better than Shurmur and Chud.....
But ......BUT.....what I would give to have guys like Ray Horton and Norv Turner still on the sideline.....
I think just Turner alone has more years in than our entire staff......
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Yup... the pain and injury difference... I thought initially it was aggravation of his shoulder, but clearly was not the case. Sounds now like it was rib cartilage. Painful as hell... hurts to breathe let alone fall or get hit.
Probably the bravest effort by a Browns QB since Bernie played on his broken ankle... Tour*********************************************
Probably one of the finest points made in all this discussing of the game. That's inspiring, and so was Mud's previous post,
as well.
I don't want to see Pettine fired - McCown's performance makes him even more a hero to the players around him,
even to the entire team. With the cast of wr's the Browns have - their offense is incomplete. Bowe was supposed to
have been a major figure in that - forget that. I supposed he could have put JM in at halftime, I sure as hell would have....
a lot of us would have...
but maybe even a spark of running by JM, and a few throws into tight windows, wouldn't have made that much difference,
and if he got hurt... the next game, the Browns would be faced with starting whats-his-name.
Teams are going after the run, and the qb, and the Browns don't have the wr's to make them pay but rarely. Barnidge
is the one guy who is kicking their ass. but that is tough when he's doubled, and the defense has a cb who can cover
Travis, at least most of the time.
The defense had a tough day - but that's against one of the top two? offenses in the NFL ? They DO have the wr's.
Maybe by now, Pettine knows changes have to be made, the wr's are not up to par...and Oneil should be an assistant
to somebody who knows more about being a DC than he does.
It's the constant running on first down. I don't understand it. Seems to me, you're just setting your offense up to
have third and long. It's like most of the time, they have only two downs to get a first down. Due to their heroics
and how often that ends up being the case, no wonder they are so highly rated on success on third down. They
have had a ton of practice at it.
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To me...I guess the head coach can stay...Pettine does have some good attributes and I do like him better than Shurmur and Chud.....
But ......BUT.....what I would give to have guys like Ray Horton and Norv Turner still on the sideline.....
I think just Turner alone has more years in than our entire staff......
To me...I guess the head coach can stay...Pettine does have some good attributes and I do like him better than Shurmur and Chud.....
But ......BUT.....what I would give to have guys like Ray Horton and Norv Turner still on the sideline.....
I think just Turner alone has more years in than our entire staff......
I'm happier with Flip than Turner, but I would LOVE to have Horton back over O'Neil...and Horton wasn't even that good.
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Yup... the pain and injury difference... I thought initially it was aggravation of his shoulder, but clearly was not the case. Sounds now like it was rib cartilage. Painful as hell... hurts to breathe let alone fall or get hit.
Probably the bravest effort by a Browns QB since Bernie played on his broken ankle... Tour*********************************************
Probably one of the finest points made in all this discussing of the game. That's inspiring, and so was Mud's previous post,
as well.
I don't want to see Pettine fired - McCown's performance makes him even more a hero to the players around him,
even to the entire team. With the cast of wr's the Browns have - their offense is incomplete. Bowe was supposed to
have been a major figure in that - forget that. I supposed he could have put JM in at halftime, I sure as hell would have....
a lot of us would have...
but maybe even a spark of running by JM, and a few throws into tight windows, wouldn't have made that much difference,
and if he got hurt... the next game, the Browns would be faced with starting whats-his-name.
Teams are going after the run, and the qb, and the Browns don't have the wr's to make them pay but rarely. Barnidge
is the one guy who is kicking their ass. but that is tough when he's doubled, and the defense has a cb who can cover
Travis, at least most of the time.
The defense had a tough day - but that's against one of the top two? offenses in the NFL ? They DO have the wr's.
Maybe by now, Pettine knows changes have to be made, the wr's are not up to par...and Oneil should be an assistant
to somebody who knows more about being a DC than he does.
It's the constant running on first down. I don't understand it. Seems to me, you're just setting your offense up to
have third and long. It's like most of the time, they have only two downs to get a first down. Due to their heroics
and how often that ends up being the case, no wonder they are so highly rated on success on third down. They
have had a ton of practice at it.
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I don't know... my concern about firing anybody is "Who's next?" It seems that every time we fire somebody, we get somebody in here with even less talent and experience than the last guy, and so on...
I would like to give Farmer, Pettine, and Co. 2 more years to do their jobs; however, this team seems to have gotten worse... and I'm not so sure it's not all on Farmer... Play calling has been pretty bad, and that's on the coordinators (combined 1 year of exp), and there have certainly been some head-scratchers on Pettine's part; however, the lack of improvement in the talent department (especially with having as many draft picks as we had this past year) is where I see the biggest problem...
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I want to keep both Pettine and Farmer. But they really need to come to Jesus in the offseason. We're giving you a chance to learn on the job but by gosh actually LEARN. We need some improvement.
The whole best players play mentality is great. Truly, it is. But it can be taken overboard and it has here. My prime example is not Johnny but actually Gilbert and yeah I agree with Mud, we should be seeing more Dwayne Bowe. Like he said, practice performance means nothing if you suck in games. Great post by Mud all around.
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We all know he doesn't like Johnny, but today he took it to a new level. He further endangered an obviously injured QB (McCown) by leaving him in rather than putting Johnny in. I don't give a damn WHO he might have put in, but McCown was clearly hurting & should have come out. Pettine's Hatred for Manziel is obvious & totally unprofessional. I have never screamed for a coaches head in mid season but, by God, I'm doing so now. Pettine has no business coaching the Browns & today absolutely proved that. I worked most all my adult life in management & am DISGUSTED by what I observed from an ALLEGED manager today.
Mike
We all know he doesn't like Johnny, but today he took it to a new level. He further endangered an obviously injured QB (McCown) by leaving him in rather than putting Johnny in. I don't give a damn WHO he might have put in, but McCown was clearly hurting & should have come out. Pettine's Hatred for Manziel is obvious & totally unprofessional. I have never screamed for a coaches head in mid season but, by God, I'm doing so now. Pettine has no business coaching the Browns & today absolutely proved that. I worked most all my adult life in management & am DISGUSTED by what I observed from an ALLEGED manager today.
Mike
Agree 100 percent. Add Farmer also.
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if Pettine truly hated Manziel, he would let him play and get destroyed behind this offensive line. I think Pettine did try to play Manziel, there was a point where Manziel stepped on to the field but McCown waved him off. At some point the coach has to override Josh's decision. Yes, it's admirable, he wanted to "stay out there with his guys", but he was doing nobody any favors by playing hurt. If everyone was putting forth the same effort as Josh than it would be different, but why should Josh kill himself for guys unwilling to play and improve?
Dropped passes, stupid penalties, inability to stop the run, it's the same problems week after week. Nothing is changing. No progress is being made. There is a complete lack of second half adjustments with the Browns that you always see other teams doing, week after week. If I was Haslem I would bring in some coordinators with experience, at least to act as consultants while the new guys are learning how things are done in the NFL. Especially O'Niel, the guy is in way over his head.
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Pettine doesn't hate Manziel. McCown has given us some of the best QB play we've seen since 99' it makes sense to keep him as your starter. Call it a mistake keeping McC in the game, but I have a hard time seeing he did it because he hates Manziel.
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His starting quarterback wanted to stay in and told him he was good to go. I don't think it's that bad of a thing.
His starting quarterback wanted to stay in and told him he was good to go. I don't think it's that bad of a thing.
No it was a great thing it was a wonderful victory.
We all love Josh but he was obviously hurt in the second half.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
We can argue McC toughness, whether it's Pettine's fault or not and concedeing to McCown. Truth is we aren't going to the playoffs. The truth is McCown was hurt and wasn't helping. You might as well put Johnny in and let him play the game. Hell, who knows. Maybe he dominates and he scores some points and does something creating trade value at least. The obvious disdain for JM, despite leading us to one of our 2 wins is very off putting.
I know JM may not be the one long term, and I am by no means a strong advocate. But God Damn, you spent a friggin' first round pick on the kid... Let him play the god damn game.But also, let's remember, that the rushing game absolutely blows and our Oline isn't helping. Listening to 92.3 The Fan, they had Pruitt on and he spoke about the number of carries and the lack thereof that lead to inconsistencies and not getting into the flow of a game as a runner. He says RB's who get carries see things that the D does and learns to adjust (or at least should) to the defenese.
Were a hot mess.
But where do you go. The front office is a fucking mess. You can't blow that up. The team has no talent, but were not letting some guys even play that probably should. And I think we have some talent, and perhaps the coaches aren't playing to those talents.I don't know... Were stuck in a tight place as an organization and it's frustrating as hell as a life long fan of the team.
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Gee, it's funny that all you guys can focus on is the misspelling.
Pettine. Mike Pettine. Our head coach. Isn't going anywhere. So, once again, sack up everyone and get ready for Thursday.
Or go root for Buffalo, no skin off my balls. We could do with some of these "fans" going away.(Not you, specifically, of course.)
TC do you really, really believe Haslam is going to stick with Pettine regardless? I was just having fun- and I rarely do- with a mis-spell.
I'm losing confidence fast in Mike's ability to be a HC. Year two you're supposed to see progress- I see serious regression in almost every area. We've upgraded the punting and placekicking- and very little else. Considering we have around the same core group of players- it's troubling to say the least.
TC do you really, really believe Haslam is going to stick with Pettine regardless? I was just having fun- and I rarely do- with a mis-spell.
I'm losing confidence fast in Mike's ability to be a HC. Year two you're supposed to see progress- I see serious regression in almost every area. We've upgraded the punting and placekicking- and very little else. Considering we have around the same core group of players- it's troubling to say the least.
I really, honestly do - unless Gruden decides he wants to coach, Peyton retires and ask to be a HC, or Chip Kelly gets fired from the Eagles.
To me, it's all a wash. Look at it this way - last year around this time, we were 5-3 and talking about the playoffs, right? We were saying how great our offense looked under Shanahan and how we were contenders for the AFC North title. At this exact point last year, we were scoring 23 PPG. Right now, we are scoring 21.75. So why are we suddenly talking about how we have no future, this team is so much worse than last year, blah blah blah?
Further, look at the teams we played in the first 8 games of last season. Three of our five wins came from Tennessee (2-14), Oakland (3-13) and Tampa Bay (2-14). Further, we also lost to a very bad Jacksonville team. This year, we've had to face New York, Arizona, Denver, Arizona and St. Louis - who all have top ten ranked defenses and winning records. We're not exactly comparing apples to apples here.
So, we're playing much tougher teams, with an older QB who is doing remarkably better than anyone anticipated and with a rookie NFL OC who is supposed to be replacing some "great" offensive mind, and we're scoring one point less per game....and everyone wants to blow it up? No offense, but the people calling for Pettine's head in here are, for the most part, not the most rational posters.
A smart, athletic interior linebacker, a pass rushing OLB/DE, and time are what we need. That's all.
Stay the course and let the team work itself out. We're still going to finish with 7 wins, despite any sort of major injury to McCown or any other key offensive weapon. Evaluate the defensive performance at the end of the year and let O'Neil walk if it's not improving. But for God's sake, Pettine isn't the problem. Just because he's not running up and down the sidelines a la Harbaugh or having crazy post game rants doesn't mean he's not inspired. It just means he's controlled, which is a skill I value in a HC.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride
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