I'm normally positive, but I want Pettine gone NOW!
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I agree with everything here except for the part about Gruden or for that matter Chip Kelly. Again...only 1 coach has won the super bowl with 2 different teams and that was Don Shula so the odds are stacked against Gruden coming in here and winning one again. I wanted Chip Kelly but I'm not sure he's act is going to work in the NFL but I could be wrong.
To add to your point about the schedule, lots of people were killing McCown for his play against Denver and that Denver "isn't that good" (as more than one person claimed). Any of you see that Denver defense hold the Packers to 10 points last night and Rodgers had less than 100 yards passing in the game? I think we'd all agree Rodgers is a damn good quarterback but Denvers defense made him look pretty average last night.
When you look at the records of the teams we've played, the only really bad team we've lost to is San Diego and they're a dead team walking, kinda like the Browns in 95. They're basically playing road games every single week. Every other team is very good to pretty good based on their records.
I mention them because I think those are the few coaches that would prompt a change in Haslam's eyes, not that I'd necessarily like them.
Although, yes... I personally would like either one of those coaches. Kelly's schtick might not work in the NFL as much as he thought, but I think getting his ass whipped in Philadelphia might humble him a bit. All things considered, he's still a wonderful offensive mind. With that said, I absolutely love the offense that Flip has installed and I'd like to see how well it performs with a confident OL and a dynamic QB.
I mention them because I think those are the few coaches that would prompt a change in Haslam's eyes, not that I'd necessarily like them.
Although, yes... I personally would like either one of those coaches. Kelly's schtick might not work in the NFL as much as he thought, but I think getting his ass whipped in Philadelphia might humble him a bit. All things considered, he's still a wonderful offensive mind. With that said, I absolutely love the offense that Flip has installed and I'd like to see how well it performs with a confident OL and a dynamic QB.
This is indeed the brightest spot so far, over-achieving offense despite little talent - Flip is a rookie coordinator but has done a nice job, much better than Shanahan IMO.
Keeping Pettine and dealing with the growing pains is fine with me, but I would hope to see a shake up of our defensive staff from O'Neil downwards.
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I agree with everything here except for the part about Gruden or for that matter Chip Kelly. Again...only 1 coach has won the super bowl with 2 different teams and that was Don Shula so the odds are stacked against Gruden coming in here and winning one again. I wanted Chip Kelly but I'm not sure he's act is going to work in the NFL but I could be wrong.
To add to your point about the schedule, lots of people were killing McCown for his play against Denver and that Denver "isn't that good" (as more than one person claimed). Any of you see that Denver defense hold the Packers to 10 points last night and Rodgers had less than 100 yards passing in the game? I think we'd all agree Rodgers is a damn good quarterback but Denvers defense made him look pretty average last night.
When you look at the records of the teams we've played, the only really bad team we've lost to is San Diego and they're a dead team walking, kinda like the Browns in 95. They're basically playing road games every single week. Every other team is very good to pretty good based on their records.
I mention them because I think those are the few coaches that would prompt a change in Haslam's eyes, not that I'd necessarily like them.
Although, yes... I personally would like either one of those coaches. Kelly's schtick might not work in the NFL as much as he thought, but I think getting his ass whipped in Philadelphia might humble him a bit. All things considered, he's still a wonderful offensive mind. With that said, I absolutely love the offense that Flip has installed and I'd like to see how well it performs with a confident OL and a dynamic QB.
I mention them because I think those are the few coaches that would prompt a change in Haslam's eyes, not that I'd necessarily like them.
Although, yes... I personally would like either one of those coaches. Kelly's schtick might not work in the NFL as much as he thought, but I think getting his ass whipped in Philadelphia might humble him a bit. All things considered, he's still a wonderful offensive mind. With that said, I absolutely love the offense that Flip has installed and I'd like to see how well it performs with a confident OL and a dynamic QB.
Fair enough...I could be sold on Kelly without too much work. As much as I like Gruden and think he's got a great football mind, I would always wonder if the fire is truly there or if this is just another Holmgren deal. From what I've heard (no inside info, just speculation), Gruden is one of, if not the highest paid ESPN employee so it would take a lot of chips to get him to give up that cushy job working 1 night a week vs. what it takes to be an NFL coach.
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Hey, no one can question McCown's courage Tour- but the bottom line is we still lost. I'll take another look at the tape, but MHO is that horrendous interception is all on Josh. That was truly a game changer.
The Bengals pass rush will be worse.
Yes.....McCown made a bad pass on the interception. He played an excellent game, consideriing all other factors. In fact....he played way above the level of any other player on that team. If you're suggesting Manziel would have done better...well.... I'm laughing my ass off.
Yes.....McCown made a bad pass on the interception. He played an excellent game, consideriing all other factors. In fact....he played way above the level of any other player on that team. If you're suggesting Manziel would have done better...well.... I'm laughing my ass off.
Not saying Manziel could have done any better- but as others have said Josh was hurt, and wasn't helping the team. Let's be realistic here- we're 1\2 through the schedule and we're 2-6. (Chalk up one of those wins to Manziel, BTW). So by all means, lets keep Josh in. The only remaining game I have any hope of the Browns winning, considering their current state of suckitude is the SF game. (We're 10 point dogs against the Bungles Thursday if you haven't looked yet) Maybe we somehow pull another game out of our ass and wind up 4-12. Is that enough justification to keep playing McCown? So we're going to have a top 10 pick, and have no idea If Johnny boy is worth keeping around. At this point does it really matter if we trot Manziel out for the rest of the season, lose out and go 2-14? At least we'll have conclusively proven Johnny sucks, and we can go for a top quarterback in 2016.
Pettine doesn't hate Manziel. McCown has given us some of the best QB play we've seen since 99' it makes sense to keep him as your starter. Call it a mistake keeping McC in the game, but I have a hard time seeing he did it because he hates Manziel.
Pettine trusted Josh too much to pull him. Manziel had his helmet on and was going on the field- he got waved off.
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Ive been a staunch Pettine defender the whole time and am starting to question a lot of things.....really liked his tough stance with rookies and such, but feel like its going a bit too far now........
Im seeing poor game time decisions, poor clock management and poor choices at the coordinator positions....I think the lack of experience, by having rookies & beginners making up the ENTIRE coaching staff and front office, is really starting to show.....
1) Stop with all the cute situational packages and just put the best players out there....let them get in the flow of the game dammit...
That means put one RB in and let him play....put your best DL in and leave them there......etc etc....when players come in and out and in and out and in and out, no one gets into the flow.....simple......
2) Stop punishing everybody who you dont like and play a few guys who might actually help out...Hey Mike, instead of sitting the guy who doesnt practice well, how about sitting the guys who SUCK DURING THE GAMES???.....eh?.....
3) And Mike, youve always been a straight shooter, so stop saying just a tweak here or there....the problems are bigger than that....man up, say we suck, take some drastic measures and get this train rolling again......
4) McCown should have been pulled....yes, I said that......look, NFL coaches switch QB's all the time.....sometimes a backup can spark the team.....and when your guy is literally broken?, sit him......we should have seen JF for most of the second half...
5) When your receiver is dropping everything, why not try another one?.....Bowe might have caught those Hartline drops....maybe maybe not.....but we will never know because he will never play.....is it Bowes decision to sit or Petts?....
6) And it was REALLY stupid to allow trade rumors to hit the street on a Sunday morning.....wtf is wrong with you guys?.....our FO has been a steel trap for keeping things secret, yet suddenly, rumors of a JT trade hit on the morning of a game?.......screw that.....
Honestly.....Im pretty disgusted with it all.....
Oh yeah.....I forgot.....when you have a guy like Duke Johnson, who is ripping ass in the short passing game, you DONT SIT HIS ASS DOWN RIGHT AFTER HE GETS 60 YARDS IN THE FIRST 1/2.....WTF ARE YOU DOING? TRYING TO TRICK THE OTHER TEAM?.....WHY, WHENEVER SOMEONE PLAYS WELL, DO WE SIT THEM???......
Ive been a staunch Pettine defender the whole time and am starting to question a lot of things.....really liked his tough stance with rookies and such, but feel like its going a bit too far now........
Im seeing poor game time decisions, poor clock management and poor choices at the coordinator positions....I think the lack of experience, by having rookies & beginners making up the ENTIRE coaching staff and front office, is really starting to show.....
1) Stop with all the cute situational packages and just put the best players out there....let them get in the flow of the game dammit...
That means put one RB in and let him play....put your best DL in and leave them there......etc etc....when players come in and out and in and out and in and out, no one gets into the flow.....simple......
2) Stop punishing everybody who you dont like and play a few guys who might actually help out...Hey Mike, instead of sitting the guy who doesnt practice well, how about sitting the guys who SUCK DURING THE GAMES???.....eh?.....
3) And Mike, you've always been a straight shooter, so stop saying just a tweak here or there....the problems are bigger than that....man up, say we suck, take some drastic measures and get this train rolling again......
4) McCown should have been pulled....yes, I said that......look, NFL coaches switch QB's all the time.....sometimes a backup can spark the team.....and when your guy is literally broken?, sit him......we should have seen JF for most of the second half...
5) When your receiver is dropping everything, why not try another one?.....Bowe might have caught those Hartline drops....maybe maybe not.....but we will never know because he will never play.....is it Bowes decision to sit or Petts?....
6) And it was REALLY stupid to allow trade rumors to hit the street on a Sunday morning.....wtf is wrong with you guys?.....our FO has been a steel trap for keeping things secret, yet suddenly, rumors of a JT trade hit on the morning of a game?.......screw that.....
Honestly.....Im pretty disgusted with it all.....
Oh yeah.....I forgot.....when you have a guy like Duke Johnson, who is ripping ass in the short passing game, you DONT SIT HIS ASS DOWN RIGHT AFTER HE GETS 60 YARDS IN THE FIRST 1/2.....WTF ARE YOU DOING? TRYING TO TRICK THE OTHER TEAM?.....WHY, WHENEVER SOMEONE PLAYS WELL, DO WE SIT THEM???......
Overall I nominate this for post of the year. What I bolded in your post is something that's honking me off royally too. It's not just Duke- Sheldon gets a sack of Palmer, so we have to pull him for the next play- can't get him overworked, ya know.
I've said it elsewhere- and it was painfully obvious being at the Rams game- this situational Chinese Fire Drill offense and defense isn't working. Get your best guys on the field and keep them there.
RE: #3 dead on. When your non quarterbacks post 20 yards rushing against the Cards, and you're DEAD LAST in the NFL in rushing defense (we gave up yet another hundred yard rusher in Chris Johnson Sunday). This isn't just time to say we need a "Tweak", "we're close", or "We're giving good effort".
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I mention them because I think those are the few coaches that would prompt a change in Haslam's eyes, not that I'd necessarily like them.
Although, yes... I personally would like either one of those coaches. Kelly's schtick might not work in the NFL as much as he thought, but I think getting his ass whipped in Philadelphia might humble him a bit. All things considered, he's still a wonderful offensive mind. With that said, I absolutely love the offense that Flip has installed and I'd like to see how well it performs with a confident OL and a dynamic QB.
This is indeed the brightest spot so far, over-achieving offense despite little talent - Flip is a rookie coordinator but has done a nice job, much better than Shanahan IMO.
Keeping Pettine and dealing with the growing pains is fine with me, but I would hope to see a shake up of our defensive staff from O'Neil downwards.
This is indeed the brightest spot so far, over-achieving offense despite little talent - Flip is a rookie coordinator but has done a nice job, much better than Shanahan IMO.
Keeping Pettine and dealing with the growing pains is fine with me, but I would hope to see a shake up of our defensive staff from O'Neil downwards.
I wholeheartedly agree with that. I am not very enthused with the defensive performance thus far. Part of me wants to believe that we are still implementing a complicated defense and that things will out soon enough, but another part of me is questioning the usage (or lack thereof) of our OLB's.
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This is indeed the brightest spot so far, over-achieving offense despite little talent - Flip is a rookie coordinator but has done a nice job, much better than Shanahan IMO.
Keeping Pettine and dealing with the growing pains is fine with me, but I would hope to see a shake up of our defensive staff from O'Neil downwards.
I wholeheartedly agree with that. I am not very enthused with the defensive performance thus far. Part of me wants to believe that we are still implementing a complicated defense and that things will out soon enough, but another part of me is questioning the usage (or lack thereof) of our OLB's.
I wholeheartedly agree with that. I am not very enthused with the defensive performance thus far. Part of me wants to believe that we are still implementing a complicated defense and that things will out soon enough, but another part of me is questioning the usage (or lack thereof) of our OLB's.
My 0.02- they're not using Sheldon enough, and Haden and Gipson have been hurt & ineffective. Kruger is being misused. Mingo is largely invisible.
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I wholeheartedly agree with that. I am not very enthused with the defensive performance thus far. Part of me wants to believe that we are still implementing a complicated defense and that things will out soon enough, but another part of me is questioning the usage (or lack thereof) of our OLB's.
My 0.02- they're not using Sheldon enough, and Haden and Gipson have been hurt & ineffective. Kruger is being misused. Mingo is largely invisible.
My 0.02- they're not using Sheldon enough, and Haden and Gipson have been hurt & ineffective. Kruger is being misused. Mingo is largely invisible.
I'm not a coach but I'd agree with pretty much all of that from an outsider perspective. Though I don't expect Kruger would be elite even if used properly. Mingo I think could be effective in pass coverage and occasional pass rusher but we barely use him for either (when we do use him in coverage he's been successful, which must be why we don't play him much)
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I wholeheartedly agree with that. I am not very enthused with the defensive performance thus far. Part of me wants to believe that we are still implementing a complicated defense and that things will out soon enough, but another part of me is questioning the usage (or lack thereof) of our OLB's.
My 0.02- they're not using Sheldon enough, and Haden and Gipson have been hurt & ineffective. Kruger is being misused. Mingo is largely invisible.
My 0.02- they're not using Sheldon enough, and Haden and Gipson have been hurt & ineffective. Kruger is being misused. Mingo is largely invisible.
I agree. I think they are trying to keep the defense fresh because there are were multiple times last season that the defense gassed out in the fourth quarter.
However, that is keeping our best players off of the field for 25% of the game, which is not ideal.
Kruger needs to be able to pin his ears back and get to the QB on every play. Mingo is athletic enough to drop back into zone coverage from time to time. Haden being injured has ruined us, but his play when he was actually active isn't very exciting either. We need two man cover corners, a roving free safety, a hybrid strong safety that can help in the run game, and two gap defensive linemen. We have the free safety, the strong safety and the defensive linemen. We are lacking at CB and LB.
Getting production out of one will help the other, either get LB's that can get to the QB or get CB's that can cover for days.
Personally, my money is on the former, since the latter is almost impossible.
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Ive been a staunch Pettine defender the whole time and am starting to question a lot of things.....really liked his tough stance with rookies and such, but feel like its going a bit too far now........
Im seeing poor game time decisions, poor clock management and poor choices at the coordinator positions....I think the lack of experience, by having rookies & beginners making up the ENTIRE coaching staff and front office, is really starting to show.....
1) Stop with all the cute situational packages and just put the best players out there....let them get in the flow of the game dammit...
That means put one RB in and let him play....put your best DL in and leave them there......etc etc....when players come in and out and in and out and in and out, no one gets into the flow.....simple......
2) Stop punishing everybody who you dont like and play a few guys who might actually help out...Hey Mike, instead of sitting the guy who doesnt practice well, how about sitting the guys who SUCK DURING THE GAMES???.....eh?.....
3) And Mike, youve always been a straight shooter, so stop saying just a tweak here or there....the problems are bigger than that....man up, say we suck, take some drastic measures and get this train rolling again......
4) McCown should have been pulled....yes, I said that......look, NFL coaches switch QB's all the time.....sometimes a backup can spark the team.....and when your guy is literally broken?, sit him......we should have seen JF for most of the second half...
5) When your receiver is dropping everything, why not try another one?.....Bowe might have caught those Hartline drops....maybe maybe not.....but we will never know because he will never play.....is it Bowes decision to sit or Petts?....
6) And it was REALLY stupid to allow trade rumors to hit the street on a Sunday morning.....wtf is wrong with you guys?.....our FO has been a steel trap for keeping things secret, yet suddenly, rumors of a JT trade hit on the morning of a game?.......screw that.....
Honestly.....Im pretty disgusted with it all.....
Oh yeah.....I forgot.....when you have a guy like Duke Johnson, who is ripping ass in the short passing game, you DONT SIT HIS ASS DOWN RIGHT AFTER HE GETS 60 YARDS IN THE FIRST 1/2.....WTF ARE YOU DOING? TRYING TO TRICK THE OTHER TEAM?.....WHY, WHENEVER SOMEONE PLAYS WELL, DO WE SIT THEM???......
Ive been a staunch Pettine defender the whole time and am starting to question a lot of things.....
You, sir, are on a roll...
Probably one of the finest points made in all this discussing of the game. That's inspiring...
Thanks, cal... I just wish we'd seen signs of McC's inspiration on the field.
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Lets see now.....Palmer, Davis, Robiskie, Crennel, Chud, Mangini, Shurmur and Pettine.....
7 changes in 14 years.....and no better results.....
So, to those who say "do it again".......why will it work this time?......and, if we do, who do you plan to get?
Same with GM......before you fire Farmer, Id like to know who you'd get and why?....(and How, ftm)
or is it just change for the sake of change....you know, addition by subtraction?.....cause that always works....
Lets see now.....Palmer, Davis, Robiskie, Crennel, Chud, Mangini, Shurmur and Pettine.....
7 changes in 14 years.....and no better results.....
So, to those who say "do it again".......why will it work this time?......and, if we do, who do you plan to get?
Same with GM......before you fire Farmer, Id like to know who you'd get and why?....(and How, ftm)
or is it just change for the sake of change....you know, addition by subtraction?.....cause that always works....
law of averages??????. who knows....
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We all love Josh but he was obviously hurt in the second half.
He was in pain... there's a difference. I, too, thought he was done after he went off the field in pain and more after he came back on it. But then I saw him rip a pass. Clearly his throwing was not impacted.
Stay the course and let the team work itself out. We're still going to finish with 7 wins, despite any sort of major injury to McCown or any other key offensive weapon. Evaluate the defensive performance at the end of the year and let O'Neil walk if it's not improving. But for God's sake, Pettine isn't the problem. Just because he's not running up and down the sidelines a la Harbaugh or having crazy post game rants doesn't mean he's not inspired. It just means he's controlled, which is a skill I value in a HC.
I don't see the win total you do, and not simply because I believe there are starts in JM's 2015 future... probably a Davis one as well, but agree with your approach.
I have been on this forum for about 5 years, but this is the first time I have felt compelled to post.
Welcome into the light... suck as it is. Post more...
To add to your point about the schedule, lots of people were killing McCown for his play against Denver and that Denver "isn't that good" (as more than one person claimed). Any of you see that Denver defense hold the Packers to 10 points last night and Rodgers had less than 100 yards passing in the game? I think we'd all agree Rodgers is a damn good quarterback but Denvers defense made him look pretty average last night.
Last nite actually started me rethinking my Hood Ornament stance...
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Yes.....McCown made a bad pass on the interception. He played an excellent game, consideriing all other factors. In fact....he played way above the level of any other player on that team. If you're suggesting Manziel would have done better...well.... I'm laughing my ass off.
Not saying Manziel could have done any better- but as others have said Josh was hurt, and wasn't helping the team. Let's be realistic here- we're 1\2 through the schedule and we're 2-6. (Chalk up one of those wins to Manziel, BTW). So by all means, lets keep Josh in. The only remaining game I have any hope of the Browns winning, considering their current state of suckitude is the SF game. (We're 10 point dogs against the Bungles Thursday if you haven't looked yet) Maybe we somehow pull another game out of our ass and wind up 4-12. Is that enough justification to keep playing McCown? So we're going to have a top 10 pick, and have no idea If Johnny boy is worth keeping around. At this point does it really matter if we trot Manziel out for the rest of the season, lose out and go 2-14? At least we'll have conclusively proven Johnny sucks, and we can go for a top quarterback in 2016.
Pettine doesn't hate Manziel. McCown has given us some of the best QB play we've seen since 99' it makes sense to keep him as your starter. Call it a mistake keeping McC in the game, but I have a hard time seeing he did it because he hates Manziel.
Pettine trusted Josh too much to pull him. Manziel had his helmet on and was going on the field- he got waved off.
Not saying Manziel could have done any better- but as others have said Josh was hurt, and wasn't helping the team. Let's be realistic here- we're 1\2 through the schedule and we're 2-6. (Chalk up one of those wins to Manziel, BTW). So by all means, lets keep Josh in. The only remaining game I have any hope of the Browns winning, considering their current state of suckitude is the SF game. (We're 10 point dogs against the Bungles Thursday if you haven't looked yet) Maybe we somehow pull another game out of our ass and wind up 4-12. Is that enough justification to keep playing McCown? So we're going to have a top 10 pick, and have no idea If Johnny boy is worth keeping around. At this point does it really matter if we trot Manziel out for the rest of the season, lose out and go 2-14? At least we'll have conclusively proven Johnny sucks, and we can go for a top quarterback in 2016.
Short week...
On the INT McC threw... I've rewatched the broadcast angles several times now. Without the all-22 I can't tell if AZ was in Cover 1 so my Centerfield comment may or may not stand.
What I did see though was very little effort to hold the Safety in the middle of the field and an underthrown ball.
Gabe had a step on the CB, but had to pull up for the underthrow. Even without the Safety coming over it is doubtful he would have been in any position to win a 50/50 ball. The INT was made only 3-yds deep in the endzone. A throw to the back pylon was about the only chance the play looked to have... about 5 more yards.
Ironically I saw in Texans highlights earlier that Hoyer made almost that exact throw, but dropped over his WR's shoulder in stride in a windless dome.
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Born and raised in Cleveland and have been watching since the early 1960s. Pettine is a stubborn man for sure. And not very bright. McCown looked like he was ready to keel over. I've never seen anything like this in all my years of watching Cleveland Sports. It's obvious Pettine doesn't like Manziel but he signed on with Farmer to draft Gilbert and Johnny Football.
Manziel was drafted for the future and the future is slipping away week by week.
I think Pettine needs to go and go soon before the whole team ends up in therapy.
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Born and raised in Cleveland and have been watching since the early 1960s. Pettine is a stubborn man for sure. And not very bright. McCown looked like he was ready to keel over. I've never seen anything like this in all my years of watching Cleveland Sports. It's obvious Pettine doesn't like Manziel but he signed on with Farmer to draft Gilbert and Johnny Football.
Manziel was drafted for the future and the future is slipping away week by week.
I think Pettine needs to go and go soon before the whole team ends up in therapy.
Born and raised in Cleveland and have been watching since the early 1960s. Pettine is a stubborn man for sure. And not very bright. McCown looked like he was ready to keel over. I've never seen anything like this in all my years of watching Cleveland Sports. It's obvious Pettine doesn't like Manziel but he signed on with Farmer to draft Gilbert and Johnny Football.
Manziel was drafted for the future and the future is slipping away week by week.
I think Pettine needs to go and go soon before the whole team ends up in therapy.
Likewise, born and raised - season holder from 1964 through 1972 when I started moving around the country. I liken Pettine to Forrest Gregg - a really really bad coach without a clue. I am glad I didn't get Sunday ticket.
I can watch a real football team on Saturdays with three real running backs one of which is leading the NCAA and playing 1 less game than everyone else.. God an injured McCown led the team in rushing? Is that really what I read?
Johnny can't help it if his girl is highspirited! I'd bet 1 in 3 Texas and Louisiana men had their drunk woman try to bail out of a moving car.How did Bill Murray put it? "So, she's a bitch" - oh I mean dog.
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