Titans fire Wisenhunt
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Surely the Pettine/Farmer regime needs to be given longer than a season and a half? You can't turn around a franchise that has been in the doldrums since a long time ago in that short space of time.
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Players win and lose games. Period. Problem is you can't fire the 53 of them, so the captain of the ship takes the fall.
Talent on the field wins games.
So why did the now 6-2 Falcons suck last year? Most of the talent is the same. The Browns on talent alone aren't great, but they are better than 2-6. Look at our coaches:
Flip: Explains in detail why things went wrong and adapts his scheme to the talent he has, hence all the spread-style plays where he tries to put the little shifty guys in space. Result: the better of the two main units on this team.
O'Neil: Gets fiery and defensive in press conferences when he can't explain why they suck. Plays to his players weaknesses (i.e. Kruger), doing the opposite of what Flip does on offense.
Pettine: Has a cliche excuse for every question, has no problem getting his QB killed. Looks like a beaten man and won't hold his players accountable.
Don't get me wrong, I don't want Pettine fired (yet), but that's mostly because hitting the reset button repeatedly hasn't worked in the past, and because I like Flip and we'd lose him if Pettine got fired, and also because there isn't really anyone better who would come here (though we could've waited for Quinn). The Browns suck this year because of the coaching, and it began in training camp. Listen to the people who watched it, all of them say how low-energy the camp was and how all these players were getting a lot of time off for minor things.
The Browns suck this year because of the coaching, and it began in training camp.
Please. We all talk about "our talented roster", again please. A lot of our starters on defense would never see the field for the Broncos, and most of our "depth" (lol) players wouldn't make the Bronco's 53.......... If you think Bill Walsh would've still been the Genius without Montana, Rice, Taylor, ect... then you are sadly mistaken.
I'm not saying coaching isn't important, but I have never seen a coach throw a pick, drop a pass, blow an assignment, miss a tackle or make a tackle (OK, maybe one coach made a tackle - looking at you Tomlin). Ask any coach, in any sport at any level and he/she will tell you players win games.
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Surely the Pettine/Farmer regime needs to be given longer than a season and a half? You can't turn around a franchise that has been in the doldrums since a long time ago in that short space of time.
Surely the Pettine/Farmer regime needs to be given longer than a season and a half? You can't turn around a franchise that has been in the doldrums since a long time ago in that short space of time.
yes, yes you can. two years is actually the ideal window(to see major improvements at least)
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Players win and lose games. Period. Problem is you can't fire the 53 of them, so the captain of the ship takes the fall.
Talent on the field wins games.
So why did the now 6-2 Falcons suck last year? Most of the talent is the same. The Browns on talent alone aren't great, but they are better than 2-6. Look at our coaches:
Flip: Explains in detail why things went wrong and adapts his scheme to the talent he has, hence all the spread-style plays where he tries to put the little shifty guys in space. Result: the better of the two main units on this team.
O'Neil: Gets fiery and defensive in press conferences when he can't explain why they suck. Plays to his players weaknesses (i.e. Kruger), doing the opposite of what Flip does on offense.
Pettine: Has a cliche excuse for every question, has no problem getting his QB killed. Looks like a beaten man and won't hold his players accountable.
Don't get me wrong, I don't want Pettine fired (yet), but that's mostly because hitting the reset button repeatedly hasn't worked in the past, and because I like Flip and we'd lose him if Pettine got fired, and also because there isn't really anyone better who would come here (though we could've waited for Quinn). The Browns suck this year because of the coaching, and it began in training camp. Listen to the people who watched it, all of them say how low-energy the camp was and how all these players were getting a lot of time off for minor things.
Whisenhunt will end up as someone's OC and he'll do well again. It can be as simple as that is his level of competence.
So why did the now 6-2 Falcons suck last year? Most of the talent is the same. The Browns on talent alone aren't great, but they are better than 2-6.
And last year we were the overachieving team early. Take another look and you'll see the Falcons have been returning to Earth recently.
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The Browns suck this year because of the coaching, and it began in training camp.
Please. We all talk about "our talented roster", again please. A lot of our starters on defense would never see the field for the Broncos, and most of our "depth" (lol) players wouldn't make the Bronco's 53.......... If you think Bill Walsh would've still been the Genius without Montana, Rice, Taylor, ect... then you are sadly mistaken.
I'm not saying coaching isn't important, but I have never seen a coach throw a pick, drop a pass, blow an assignment, miss a tackle or make a tackle (OK, maybe one coach made a tackle - looking at you Tomlin). Ask any coach, in any sport at any level and he/she will tell you players win games.
Please. We all talk about "our talented roster", again please. A lot of our starters on defense would never see the field for the Broncos, and most of our "depth" (lol) players wouldn't make the Bronco's 53.......... If you think Bill Walsh would've still been the Genius without Montana, Rice, Taylor, ect... then you are sadly mistaken.
I'm not saying coaching isn't important, but I have never seen a coach throw a pick, drop a pass, blow an assignment, miss a tackle or make a tackle (OK, maybe one coach made a tackle - looking at you Tomlin). Ask any coach, in any sport at any level and he/she will tell you players win games.
I didn't say our roster is talented, I said they aren't as bad as 2-6 without some other factors. Coaches don't make tackles, but they decide how much time is spent in practice tackling, which when people don't practice tackling, they start sucking at it. Same for blowing assignments. When you don't work your players in training camp, which is what happened this year, go ask Nathan Zigura and Jim Donovan who both said as much on CBD and RBS, you end up with guys who are not where they need to be when the games start to matter.
Coaching, players, it ALL matters and it impacts the wins and losses. Seattle won the Super Bowl with a bunch of late round and undrafted picks. Outside of Tom Brady and Gronk, who do the Patriots have on offense? Why is Dion Lewis so effective in New England when he got cut in Cleveland? Our. Coaches. Suck. They can't motivate. They can't scheme. If you think otherwise, you're the one who is mistaken.
"I said, 'I need someone who's going to want to get on the roller coaster with me knowing that it's not always going to be fun,'" -Paul DePodesta -
From Whisenhunt to Mularkey.....(replace your retread with a retread)......hahahaha!......
This is why firing Pettine isnt a good idea.....only retreads are available.....
AND, when firing during the season, all teams usually tap an existing coach to act as interim.....so we'd be firing pettine and inserting who?.....Oneill?....Flip?.....some other coach none of us even have heard of?.....
HEY, wait just a minute!!!...maybe we can get Whisenhunt....?!?!
Hahhahaaaaaaaa.......way to go Titans!!!
Biggest reason why firing Pettine before year's end doesn't make sense. Seriously, who on this staff would you want as a HC even at an interim level? That's what we would be looking at if we let Pettine go before year's end. Although the trend appears to be to hire tight end coaches which would be Brian Angelichio?
Although the trend appears to be to hire tight end coaches...
And there it is... Whisenhunt was once our TE coach...
Feels like there has to be more "behind the scenes" with this firing. As others said above the circumstances in Nashville would seem to have called for more patience than this.
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Please. We all talk about "our talented roster", again please. A lot of our starters on defense would never see the field for the Broncos, and most of our "depth" (lol) players wouldn't make the Bronco's 53.......... If you think Bill Walsh would've still been the Genius without Montana, Rice, Taylor, ect... then you are sadly mistaken.
I'm not saying coaching isn't important, but I have never seen a coach throw a pick, drop a pass, blow an assignment, miss a tackle or make a tackle (OK, maybe one coach made a tackle - looking at you Tomlin). Ask any coach, in any sport at any level and he/she will tell you players win games.
I didn't say our roster is talented, I said they aren't as bad as 2-6 without some other factors. Coaches don't make tackles, but they decide how much time is spent in practice tackling, which when people don't practice tackling, they start sucking at it. Same for blowing assignments. When you don't work your players in training camp, which is what happened this year, go ask Nathan Zigura and Jim Donovan who both said as much on CBD and RBS, you end up with guys who are not where they need to be when the games start to matter.
Coaching, players, it ALL matters and it impacts the wins and losses. Seattle won the Super Bowl with a bunch of late round and undrafted picks. Outside of Tom Brady and Gronk, who do the Patriots have on offense? Why is Dion Lewis so effective in New England when he got cut in Cleveland? Our. Coaches. Suck. They can't motivate. They can't scheme. If you think otherwise, you're the one who is mistaken.
Coaching, players, it ALL matters and it impacts the wins and losses. Seattle won the Super Bowl with a bunch of late round and undrafted picks. Outside of Tom Brady and Gronk, who do the Patriots have on offense? Why is Dion Lewis so effective in New England when he got cut in Cleveland? Our. Coaches. Suck. They can't motivate. They can't scheme. If you think otherwise, you're the one who is mistaken.
Totally agree, "coaching, players it ALL matters", throw in ownership, GM, scouting, strength and conditioning coaches. it does all matter. The Pats WRs always seem to be open... Is that because some coach has the mystical, magical Xs and Os? Of course not, it's because they are freakin' good. Brady is the motor that makes that elite machine purr, no doubt, but don't be fooled - he has talent all around him.
Yes, you hit on Lewis being released by us and scooped up by the Pats, as well as Seattle's success. Anyone who watched Lewis run for us in pre-season saw what I saw, and thought "wow, there is our RB of the future"..... Well, apparently the Browns' GM didn't watch pre-season, and foolishly let yet another football player walk out the door.
In Seattle, the GM/scouts are obviously on top of their game, because they are drafting quality football players in all rounds of the draft, while the Browns draft 3, maybe 4 busts in the first round, and in only two years no less. The Browns go after the shinny, sparkly trinket, while Seattle goes after the iron hammer.
Pettine has made more than his fair share of mistakes, and he doesn't seem to be learning from them and that is troubling, but if we fire him on Friday morning, nothing will change, and the round-about will be reset yet again.
Farmer on the other hand, I could give 2 craps if he's fired today............ ooooohhhhhhhh he drafted Desir in the 35th round and he's a "quality NFL db" (LMAO - only for the 32nd ranked D is he a quality DB) big fucking deal. I'm sure Jimmy loves signing Bowe's check twice per month.
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Surely the Pettine/Farmer regime needs to be given longer than a season and a half? You can't turn around a franchise that has been in the doldrums since a long time ago in that short space of time.
yes, yes you can. two years is actually the ideal window(to see major improvements at least)
yes, yes you can. two years is actually the ideal window(to see major improvements at least)
Where are you getting this two years is the ideal window from? Whos been saying this in the nfl?
I mean i guess youd ideally like to see major improvement in year 2, but if you dont, it doesnt mean that eventually you wont.
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Coaching, players, it ALL matters and it impacts the wins and losses. Seattle won the Super Bowl with a bunch of late round and undrafted picks. Outside of Tom Brady and Gronk, who do the Patriots have on offense? Why is Dion Lewis so effective in New England when he got cut in Cleveland? Our. Coaches. Suck. They can't motivate. They can't scheme. If you think otherwise, you're the one who is mistaken.
Totally agree, "coaching, players it ALL matters", throw in ownership, GM, scouting, strength and conditioning coaches. it does all matter. The Pats WRs always seem to be open... Is that because some coach has the mystical, magical Xs and Os? Of course not, it's because they are freakin' good. Brady is the motor that makes that elite machine purr, no doubt, but don't be fooled - he has talent all around him.
Yes, you hit on Lewis being released by us and scooped up by the Pats, as well as Seattle's success. Anyone who watched Lewis run for us in pre-season saw what I saw, and thought "wow, there is our RB of the future"..... Well, apparently the Browns' GM didn't watch pre-season, and foolishly let yet another football player walk out the door.
In Seattle, the GM/scouts are obviously on top of their game, because they are drafting quality football players in all rounds of the draft, while the Browns draft 3, maybe 4 busts in the first round, and in only two years no less. The Browns go after the shinny, sparkly trinket, while Seattle goes after the iron hammer.
Pettine has made more than his fair share of mistakes, and he doesn't seem to be learning from them and that is troubling, but if we fire him on Friday morning, nothing will change, and the round-about will be reset yet again.
Farmer on the other hand, I could give 2 craps if he's fired today............ ooooohhhhhhhh he drafted Desir in the 35th round and he's a "quality NFL db" (LMAO - only for the 32nd ranked D is he a quality DB) big fucking deal. I'm sure Jimmy loves signing Bowe's check twice per month.
The Pats WRs always seem to be open... Is that because some coach has the mystical, magical Xs and Os? Of course not, it's because they are freakin' good.
Actually...
Saw an analysis on ESPN a week or so ago by, I think, Tim Hasselbeck where he said the Pats run as many as ten pick plays a game with the philosophy of "if we get caught and have a penalty called on a couple, then that means 8 were successful."
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
The Pats WRs always seem to be open... Is that because some coach has the mystical, magical Xs and Os? Of course not, it's because they are freakin' good.
Actually...
Saw an analysis on ESPN a week or so ago by, I think, Tim Hasselbeck where he said the Pats run as many as ten pick plays a game with the philosophy of "if we get caught and have a penalty called on a couple, then that means 8 were successful."
Actually...
Saw an analysis on ESPN a week or so ago by, I think, Tim Hasselbeck where he said the Pats run as many as ten pick plays a game with the philosophy of "if we get caught and have a penalty called on a couple, then that means 8 were successful."
This is 100% true. Literally why Tom Brady can play for 5+ more years because the pick plays allow him to find open receivers on short routes. He rarely throws down the field.. I just wish they called those penalties more consistently..
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The Pats WRs always seem to be open... Is that because some coach has the mystical, magical Xs and Os? Of course not, it's because they are freakin' good.
Actually...
Saw an analysis on ESPN a week or so ago by, I think, Tim Hasselbeck where he said the Pats run as many as ten pick plays a game with the philosophy of "if we get caught and have a penalty called on a couple, then that means 8 were successful."
Actually...
Saw an analysis on ESPN a week or so ago by, I think, Tim Hasselbeck where he said the Pats run as many as ten pick plays a game with the philosophy of "if we get caught and have a penalty called on a couple, then that means 8 were successful."
You mean the Patriots cheat? What an astounding revelation!
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They went 2-14, drafted a QB everyone knew would take time to develop, and a WR in DGB who every knew would take time to develop. What did they seriously expect?
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Coaching, players, it ALL matters and it impacts the wins and losses. Seattle won the Super Bowl with a bunch of late round and undrafted picks. Outside of Tom Brady and Gronk, who do the Patriots have on offense? Why is Dion Lewis so effective in New England when he got cut in Cleveland? Our. Coaches. Suck. They can't motivate. They can't scheme. If you think otherwise, you're the one who is mistaken.
Totally agree, "coaching, players it ALL matters", throw in ownership, GM, scouting, strength and conditioning coaches. it does all matter. The Pats WRs always seem to be open... Is that because some coach has the mystical, magical Xs and Os? Of course not, it's because they are freakin' good. Brady is the motor that makes that elite machine purr, no doubt, but don't be fooled - he has talent all around him.
Yes, you hit on Lewis being released by us and scooped up by the Pats, as well as Seattle's success. Anyone who watched Lewis run for us in pre-season saw what I saw, and thought "wow, there is our RB of the future"..... Well, apparently the Browns' GM didn't watch pre-season, and foolishly let yet another football player walk out the door.
In Seattle, the GM/scouts are obviously on top of their game, because they are drafting quality football players in all rounds of the draft, while the Browns draft 3, maybe 4 busts in the first round, and in only two years no less. The Browns go after the shinny, sparkly trinket, while Seattle goes after the iron hammer.
Pettine has made more than his fair share of mistakes, and he doesn't seem to be learning from them and that is troubling, but if we fire him on Friday morning, nothing will change, and the round-about will be reset yet again.
Farmer on the other hand, I could give 2 craps if he's fired today............ ooooohhhhhhhh he drafted Desir in the 35th round and he's a "quality NFL db" (LMAO - only for the 32nd ranked D is he a quality DB) big fucking deal. I'm sure Jimmy loves signing Bowe's check twice per month.
Totally agree, "coaching, players it ALL matters", throw in ownership, GM, scouting, strength and conditioning coaches. it does all matter. The Pats WRs always seem to be open... Is that because some coach has the mystical, magical Xs and Os? Of course not, it's because they are freakin' good. Brady is the motor that makes that elite machine purr, no doubt, but don't be fooled - he has talent all around him.
Welker is fantastic right now. So is Kenbrell Thompkins. You know, New England's leading receivers not named Gronk only a few short years ago.
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Totally agree, "coaching, players it ALL matters", throw in ownership, GM, scouting, strength and conditioning coaches. it does all matter. The Pats WRs always seem to be open... Is that because some coach has the mystical, magical Xs and Os? Of course not, it's because they are freakin' good. Brady is the motor that makes that elite machine purr, no doubt, but don't be fooled - he has talent all around him.
Welker is fantastic right now. So is Kenbrell Thompkins. You know, New England's leading receivers not named Gronk only a few short years ago.
Welker is fantastic right now. So is Kenbrell Thompkins. You know, New England's leading receivers not named Gronk only a few short years ago.
"a few short years ago" is a lifetime in the NFL, where the average career is only 3+ years long. That's why it's helpful to not miss on draft picks, especially 3-4 1st rounders in two years. That way when one of your talented vets moves on, you can replace him with a talented young guy...... You know, like we did with Gilbert.
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Welker is fantastic right now. So is Kenbrell Thompkins. You know, New England's leading receivers not named Gronk only a few short years ago.
"a few short years ago" is a lifetime in the NFL, where the average career is only 3+ years long. That's why it's helpful to not miss on draft picks, especially 3-4 1st rounders in two years. That way when one of your talented vets moves on, you can replace him with a talented young guy...... You know, like we did with Gilbert.
"a few short years ago" is a lifetime in the NFL, where the average career is only 3+ years long. That's why it's helpful to not miss on draft picks, especially 3-4 1st rounders in two years. That way when one of your talented vets moves on, you can replace him with a talented young guy...... You know, like we did with Gilbert.
The point is that these so called great receivers for the Patriots don't find the same success anywhere else, not how long ago they were great.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
We should fire Pettine and get him while we can.
We should fire Pettine and get him while we can.
You mean the guy who is 6-44 in his last 50 games? That's the guy you "fire the coach" morons want??? Jesus... Pettine won more games that this assclown in one year than he has in the last 3+ seasons.
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"a few short years ago" is a lifetime in the NFL, where the average career is only 3+ years long. That's why it's helpful to not miss on draft picks, especially 3-4 1st rounders in two years. That way when one of your talented vets moves on, you can replace him with a talented young guy...... You know, like we did with Gilbert.
The point is that these so called great receivers for the Patriots don't find the same success anywhere else, not how long ago they were great.
The point is that these so called great receivers for the Patriots don't find the same success anywhere else, not how long ago they were great.
Couldn't tell what your point was, but that isn't unusual.
And if you don't think Edelman is talented, then I don't know what to tell you.
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I wonder if the sports talk down there is wee wee wee no free agent for coaching candidate will ever come here again!
But it does seem like a pretty quick trigger for a guy in his situation.
(wasn't somebody here bitching that we should have hired him?)
WSS
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The point is that these so called great receivers for the Patriots don't find the same success anywhere else, not how long ago they were great.
Couldn't tell what your point was, but that isn't unusual.
And if you don't think Edelman is talented, then I don't know what to tell you.
Couldn't tell what your point was, but that isn't unusual.
And if you don't think Edelman is talented, then I don't know what to tell you.
Edelman is talented, but no moreso than Benjamin. Patriots don't break the bank for WR talent, because a smart QB makes any WR good.
On any given play that lasts four seconds, there's at least two instances of a WR being open, if even for a split second...it's just recognizing when and not forcing the issue. Theres multiple variations of "open", and it's not always just having a 5+ yard cushion on the nearest defender. Brady is adept at hitting receivers out of breaks, placing the ball in seams and throwing the ball just out of reach of trailing defenders. That's why New England experiences success with smaller, shiftier, no name receivers just as much as they do with Gronk, Moss, etc.
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