Is it Ray Farmer or Mike Pettine who's responsible for this dumpster fire?
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Great article! I never thought of it that way. It makes a ton of sense when you have injuries to the secondary and Gilbert not playing. What are they saving Gilbert and Manziel for? For what? McCown said he couldn't sleep or breathe but Pettine keeps saying if he's healthy he'll play.
I might be wrong about Farmer. We will wait and see in the next few weeks if they play these guys.
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Wow... article's author outdoes the "on the rag" thread.
There are legitimate criticisms of Pet to be sure, but failure to hold players accountable? Throwing them under the bus? Doing nothing to help Josh Gordon succeed?
Worst of all is where he criticizes Pet for not pulling McC after his rib injury in one paragraph and then in the next criticizes him for putting in JM late.
Wow...
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Maybe Pettine will look like a genius someday for sitting guys who aren't ready for the NFL yet like Erving, JM, and Gilbert?
Maybe it's not a coincidence that the JM we saw last year that clearly wasn't ready for the NFL, has looked better and more NFL ready (as if he's made progress in camp/practice) in his 1 and 3/4 games so far this year? Pettine may have the right idea with JM so far.
Maybe the Gilbert we saw last year who pretty much sucked is also making progress this year? He looks to be a pretty decent tackler and quick on special teams anyway.
Maybe Erving isn't playing because we have 4 potential pro bowler O-lineman starting and another who is pretty decent.
Idk, enough being reasonable LoL
Pettine obviously doesn’t like Manziel, doesn’t want him on his team, and will do whatever he can to bury the young quarterback in the Cleveland quarterback graveyard.
Agreed!
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Maybe Pettine will look like a genius someday for sitting guys who aren't ready for the NFL yet like Erving, JM, and Gilbert?
Maybe it's not a coincidence that the JM we saw last year that clearly wasn't ready for the NFL, has looked better and more NFL ready (as if he's made progress in camp/practice) in his 1 and 3/4 games so far this year? Pettine may have the right idea with JM so far.
Maybe the Gilbert we saw last year who pretty much sucked is also making progress this year? He looks to be a pretty decent tackler and quick on special teams anyway.
Maybe Erving isn't playing because we have 4 potential pro bowler O-lineman starting and another who is pretty decent.
Idk, enough being reasonable LoL
Pettine obviously doesn’t like Manziel, doesn’t want him on his team, and will do whatever he can to bury the young quarterback in the Cleveland quarterback graveyard.
Agreed!
Maybe the Gilbert we saw last year who pretty much sucked is also making progress this year? He looks to be a pretty decent tackler and quick on special teams anyway.
Exactly.......and right now, Gilbert is our #1 rated special teams player....AND leads the team in ST tackles, even though he hasn't played as much as others....
And tackling is something some people said he couldnt do....and, let me tell you, head hunting on ST takes big balls and a lot of effort.....something else people have implied he doesnt have.....
So......???.......play him.....he's doing what he's supposed to do.....and is excelling.....play.....him.......NOW......
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It's a fair question that article poses and something that will flesh itself out in time, that's for sure. I keep going back and forth on the idea personally because while Gilbert and Manziel appear to have been "bad" picks, it's awfully hard to know without actually seeing them on game day in full on roles. But, are they actually practicing that bad or is Pettine's hubris and/or dislike of the guys the cause?
It's hard for me to think the guys that are playing above them are that much better when we're looking down the barrel of another 3-4 win season overall. IF those guys are actually worse though, yikes.
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Maybe the Gilbert we saw last year who pretty much sucked is also making progress this year? He looks to be a pretty decent tackler and quick on special teams anyway.
Exactly.......and right now, Gilbert is our #1 rated special teams player....AND leads the team in ST tackles, even though he hasn't played as much as others....
And tackling is something some people said he couldnt do....and, let me tell you, head hunting on ST takes big balls and a lot of effort.....something else people have implied he doesnt have.....
So......???.......play him.....he's doing what he's supposed to do.....and is excelling.....play.....him.......NOW......
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Good question MD. I think some of the responsibility falls on a few players as well. Josh Gordon's discarded "blunt" started the dumpster smoldering and then Johnny spilled his 150 proof and some rolled up twenties in there that started the blaze. Pettine and Farmer started a bucket brigade and have been trying to put the fire out now for a year and a half , but maybe going about it the wrong way. The Dwayne Bowe acquisition just added expensive garbage to the fire. There are too many holes in this bucket. Sometimes you just have to let it flame out and sift through the ashes and see what can be saved. I don't know if Pettine really hates Manziel or not , but it's time to put egos aside and once and for all put the Qb questions to rest. If Johnny burns up in the fire, so be it. Who knows, maybe he can make it rain W's and a rainbow shoots out of his ass and all is well in Cleveland........... but I doubt it.
GO BROWNS!!!
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I couldnt' make it past the accusation that Pettine isn't helping Josh Gordon succeed. You can just stop reading right there because some mail room chimp typed that up by banging on the keyboard lots. Someone should be fired from life for having that opinion. There's only one person in this world who's getting in Josh Gordons way..............3 guesses everyone, 3 guesses.
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free agency is the trump card when it comes to farmer. i think he's good at finding valuable players in low rankings but might need to go back to night school when it comes to the first rounders (even though i loved the gilbert and shelton picks).
we always sign some fucked up old retread in FA.....never fails.
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I couldnt' make it past the accusation that Pettine isn't helping Josh Gordon succeed. You can just stop reading right there because some mail room chimp typed that up by banging on the keyboard lots. Someone should be fired from life for having that opinion. There's only one person in this world who's getting in Josh Gordons way..............3 guesses everyone, 3 guesses.
I couldnt' make it past the accusation that Pettine isn't helping Josh Gordon succeed. You can just stop reading right there because some mail room chimp typed that up by banging on the keyboard lots. Someone should be fired from life for having that opinion. There's only one person in this world who's getting in Josh Gordons way..............3 guesses everyone, 3 guesses.
1. the pope
2. samuel l. jackson
3. josh gordon. maybe?
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Don't agree with everything in the article but this an alternative analysis of the difficulties the Browns have encountered this season. The media (looking at you Rizzo and Grossi) are placing the blame disproportionately on Farmer and glossing over Pettine's numerous mistakes. They're both new and inexperienced in their positions and will obviously make mistakes but blame needs to be spread equally.
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Don't agree with everything in the article but this an alternative analysis of the difficulties the Browns have encountered this season. The media (looking at you Rizzo and Grossi) are placing the blame disproportionately on Farmer and glossing over Pettine's numerous mistakes. They're both new and inexperienced in their positions and will obviously make mistakes but blame needs to be spread equally.
Don't agree with everything in the article but this an alternative analysis of the difficulties the Browns have encountered this season. The media (looking at you Rizzo and Grossi) are placing the blame disproportionately on Farmer and glossing over Pettine's numerous mistakes. They're both new and inexperienced in their positions and will obviously make mistakes but blame needs to be spread equally.
but everyone needs a chance to learn as they grow into these positions.
hell if they hired you and expected no mistakes and got canned after a year and a half you'd say you got a raw deal.
cinci doesn't do it. pitt doesn't do it. and even the ravens for how many years now? let's keep firing and hiring and show those other teams that consistently knock us down the basement steps that we know better than them!!!!
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I couldnt' make it past the accusation that Pettine isn't helping Josh Gordon succeed. You can just stop reading right there because some mail room chimp typed that up by banging on the keyboard lots. Someone should be fired from life for having that opinion. There's only one person in this world who's getting in Josh Gordons way..............3 guesses everyone, 3 guesses.
1. the pope
2. samuel l. jackson
3. josh gordon. maybe?
1. the pope
2. samuel l. jackson
3. josh gordon. maybe?
1)nope
2)uh uh
3) how's it go? winner winner something dinner?
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Don't agree with everything in the article but this an alternative analysis of the difficulties the Browns have encountered this season. The media (looking at you Rizzo and Grossi) are placing the blame disproportionately on Farmer and glossing over Pettine's numerous mistakes. They're both new and inexperienced in their positions and will obviously make mistakes but blame needs to be spread equally.
but everyone needs a chance to learn as they grow into these positions.
hell if they hired you and expected no mistakes and got canned after a year and a half you'd say you got a raw deal.
cinci doesn't do it. pitt doesn't do it. and even the ravens for how many years now? let's keep firing and hiring and show those other teams that consistently knock us down the basement steps that we know better than them!!!!
but everyone needs a chance to learn as they grow into these positions.
hell if they hired you and expected no mistakes and got canned after a year and a half you'd say you got a raw deal.
cinci doesn't do it. pitt doesn't do it. and even the ravens for how many years now? let's keep firing and hiring and show those other teams that consistently knock us down the basement steps that we know better than them!!!!
Agree that impulsive firing isn't the way to go but it appears to me that Farmer has the upper hand in that building ( Joe Thomas doesn't go on the trading block, without even informing Pettine is all the evidence you need) and he'll say he needs to appoint his own coach to prove his methods work (or fail).
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I do agree somewhat that Pettine hasn't exactly "been kind" to the guys with high talent levels, but less-than-ideal attitudes, while also being overly kind to the less talented guys who work hard...
There are guys who do not excel at practice, but are absolute gamers when it counts. It just happens... Gordon being our most recent example...
IF Farmer is supplying the talent, which is still arguable, and Pettine refuses to focus on developing those guys then it is fully on Pettine. Which may be true...
The other side of the coin is Farmer is supplying garbage, and Pettine is doing his best to work with what he has...
I honestly have heard too much from Pettine singing high praises of undrafted guys and glorified nobodys for their hard work and effort, while not praising the high draft picks and FAs. Maybe he has a "little man complex" and would rather give those "nobodys" a shot b/c they "earned it."
I don't know, but if I have guys like Gilbert or Manziel, I would be trying to squeeze every bit of talent out of them rather than sticking them at the bottom of the depth chart and telling them they need to "work harder." Why?... Because talent wins in the NFL... Having a good attitude doesn't... or to put it another way, I'd rather have a group of guys who practice like sh** and win on Sundays, than a bunch of hard-working blue-collar guys who can't get the job done... any day...
I'm not around the team everyday so I don't know what's true, but hopefully our owner is around enough to see what's going on and is able to get some good advice about what changes need to / should be made...
#Justsayin' -
1)nope
2)uh uh
3) how's it go? winner winner something dinner?
Sushi.....sushi dinner.
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I do agree somewhat that Pettine hasn't exactly "been kind" to the guys with high talent levels, but less-than-ideal attitudes, while also being overly kind to the less talented guys who work hard...
There are guys who do not excel at practice, but are absolute gamers when it counts. It just happens... Gordon being our most recent example...
IF Farmer is supplying the talent, which is still arguable, and Pettine refuses to focus on developing those guys then it is fully on Pettine. Which may be true...
The other side of the coin is Farmer is supplying garbage, and Pettine is doing his best to work with what he has...
I honestly have heard too much from Pettine singing high praises of undrafted guys and glorified nobodys for their hard work and effort, while not praising the high draft picks and FAs. Maybe he has a "little man complex" and would rather give those "nobodys" a shot b/c they "earned it."
I don't know, but if I have guys like Gilbert or Manziel, I would be trying to squeeze every bit of talent out of them rather than sticking them at the bottom of the depth chart and telling them they need to "work harder." Why?... Because talent wins in the NFL... Having a good attitude doesn't... or to put it another way, I'd rather have a group of guys who practice like sh** and win on Sundays, than a bunch of hard-working blue-collar guys who can't get the job done... any day...
I'm not around the team everyday so I don't know what's true, but hopefully our owner is around enough to see what's going on and is able to get some good advice about what changes need to / should be made...
I honestly have heard too much from Pettine singing high praises of undrafted guys and glorified nobodys for their hard work and effort, while not praising the high draft picks and FAs. Maybe he has a "little man complex" and would rather give those "nobodys" a shot b/c they "earned it."
And right there is a deeper, more thoughtful paragraph than any in that so-called article...
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Just a thought after reading that article...
At the Cards' game, season ticket holders were given Browns' Yearbooks. As I browsed through it (will have to look at it more closely), our coaching staff as a group is VERY inexperienced at the NFL level. I wonder if it might be a thought to bring in a Whisenhunt & a similar "NFL experienced" guy on the D side to "assist" our current Coordinators with planning & in teaching & developing all these young players. That way, both the players AND our young coordinators might accelerate their learning curves. Sort of OJT with mentors. Just more of an old man's out of the box thoughts.
Mike
IN DORSEY I TRUST -
Just a thought after reading that article...
At the Cards' game, season ticket holders were given Browns' Yearbooks. As I browsed through it (will have to look at it more closely), our coaching staff as a group is VERY inexperienced at the NFL level. I wonder if it might be a thought to bring in a Whisenhunt & a similar "NFL experienced" guy on the D side to "assist" our current Coordinators with planning & in teaching & developing all these young players. That way, both the players AND our young coordinators might accelerate their learning curves. Sort of OJT with mentors. Just more of an old man's out of the box thoughts.
Mike
Gotta say, Pettine seems to REALLY promote and compliment guys like Carder, Meder, D Winn & Solomon.....
While not having much good to say about the silver spoons of a Manziel, Gilbert or Bowe....
Just a thought after reading that article.... I wonder if it might be a thought to bring in a Whisenhunt & a similar "NFL experienced" guy on the D side to "assist" our current Coordinators
Good thought Mike......Chud was brought into Indy as an "Asst HC"....and now has stepped into the OC role.....
Maybe we could use a similar guy here.....though Flip seems to be doing ok(now) and, Id think, Pet should be considered Oneils mentor.....(would be kinda weird to bring in another defensive mind, no?)
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I do agree somewhat that Pettine hasn't exactly "been kind" to the guys with high talent levels, but less-than-ideal attitudes, while also being overly kind to the less talented guys who work hard...
There are guys who do not excel at practice, but are absolute gamers when it counts. It just happens... Gordon being our most recent example...
IF Farmer is supplying the talent, which is still arguable, and Pettine refuses to focus on developing those guys then it is fully on Pettine. Which may be true...
The other side of the coin is Farmer is supplying garbage, and Pettine is doing his best to work with what he has...
I honestly have heard too much from Pettine singing high praises of undrafted guys and glorified nobodys for their hard work and effort, while not praising the high draft picks and FAs. Maybe he has a "little man complex" and would rather give those "nobodys" a shot b/c they "earned it."
I don't know, but if I have guys like Gilbert or Manziel, I would be trying to squeeze every bit of talent out of them rather than sticking them at the bottom of the depth chart and telling them they need to "work harder." Why?... Because talent wins in the NFL... Having a good attitude doesn't... or to put it another way, I'd rather have a group of guys who practice like sh** and win on Sundays, than a bunch of hard-working blue-collar guys who can't get the job done... any day...
I'm not around the team everyday so I don't know what's true, but hopefully our owner is around enough to see what's going on and is able to get some good advice about what changes need to / should be made...
That is certainly a plausible theory.I honestly have heard too much from Pettine singing high praises of undrafted guys and glorified nobodys for their hard work and effort, while not praising the high draft picks and FAs. Maybe he has a "little man complex" and would rather give those "nobodys" a shot b/c they "earned it."
Another theory is the high draft picks just flat out suck, and Pettine has to rely on the nobody's.
Two things that will define you: Your determination when you have nothing. Your attitude when you have everything. - Mike McCartney
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