Contradictions hurting team and players.....
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It's all been figured out. Pettine wants to lose. He loves answering questions on why the team sucks. He surely never wants to coach again. He's all in for submarining his coaches futures. Or wait maybe the guy who watches practice, the games and the game film may actually have a better grasp on the talent level on the team the say maybe a dude on the interweb.
The team is sooooo talented that the best player was being shopped for a first and a third
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It's all been figured out. Pettine wants to lose. He loves answering questions on why the team sucks. He surely never wants to coach again. He's all in for submarining his coaches futures. Or wait maybe the guy who watches practice, the games and the game film may actually have a better grasp on the talent level on the team the say maybe a dude on the interweb.
The team is sooooo talented that the best player was being shopped for a first and a third
It's all been figured out. Pettine wants to lose. He loves answering questions on why the team sucks. He surely never wants to coach again. He's all in for submarining his coaches futures. Or wait maybe the guy who watches practice, the games and the game film may actually have a better grasp on the talent level on the team the say maybe a dude on the interweb.
The team is sooooo talented that the best player was being shopped for a first and a third
Hey, look, its Mike Pettine.
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It's all been figured out. Pettine wants to lose. He loves answering questions on why the team sucks. He surely never wants to coach again. He's all in for submarining his coaches futures. Or wait maybe the guy who watches practice, the games and the game film may actually have a better grasp on the talent level on the team the say maybe a dude on the interweb.
The team is sooooo talented that the best player was being shopped for a first and a third
Hey, look, its Mike Pettine.
Hey, look, its Mike Pettine.
Say what you want. Chud stinks, Shanahan stinks, Mangini stinks....the constant the lack of fucking talent. Our O-Line is so awesome because PFF grades them that way until you watch the game and we can't run the ball. Then it's not the O-Lines fault it's Crow's. Then we play the great Duke Johnson with the same results. It's a constant blame the next guy instead of admitting we've drafted shit and we sign shit. Mingo was the 6th fucking pick in the draft and some are arguing that he should play more. The 6th pick in the 2013 draft should be dominate not worrying about playing time. Mingo should be so fucking good were asking why don't they give him rest. Are Raider fans saying Mack needs more of a look? Rhetorical. Justin Gilbert is a fucking waste. Tabor has to explain his "progress" as a special team player. So many making excuses last year about how hard it is to be a starting corner, when Gilbert plays he's outmatched but by all means let's blame Oneill for this clown. It never ends, god forbid as fans we accept the fact THE BROWNS FUCKING STINK and it's nobody's fault but the guys who put on the jerseys and get beat.
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Great posts and an even better finish Mudfly. It's true what you says Browns 52 which means we need to question who is hiring all these coaches. As Mudfly points out the current crop of 5 are all new.
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Hey, look, its Mike Pettine.
Say what you want. Chud stinks, Shanahan stinks, Mangini stinks....the constant the lack of fucking talent. Our O-Line is so awesome because PFF grades them that way until you watch the game and we can't run the ball. Then it's not the O-Lines fault it's Crow's. Then we play the great Duke Johnson with the same results. It's a constant blame the next guy instead of admitting we've drafted shit and we sign shit. Mingo was the 6th fucking pick in the draft and some are arguing that he should play more. The 6th pick in the 2013 draft should be dominate not worrying about playing time. Mingo should be so fucking good were asking why don't they give him rest. Are Raider fans saying Mack needs more of a look? Rhetorical. Justin Gilbert is a fucking waste. Tabor has to explain his "progress" as a special team player. So many making excuses last year about how hard it is to be a starting corner, when Gilbert plays he's outmatched but by all means let's blame Oneill for this clown. It never ends, god forbid as fans we accept the fact THE BROWNS FUCKING STINK and it's nobody's fault but the guys who put on the jerseys and get beat.
Say what you want. Chud stinks, Shanahan stinks, Mangini stinks....the constant the lack of fucking talent. Our O-Line is so awesome because PFF grades them that way until you watch the game and we can't run the ball. Then it's not the O-Lines fault it's Crow's. Then we play the great Duke Johnson with the same results. It's a constant blame the next guy instead of admitting we've drafted shit and we sign shit. Mingo was the 6th fucking pick in the draft and some are arguing that he should play more. The 6th pick in the 2013 draft should be dominate not worrying about playing time. Mingo should be so fucking good were asking why don't they give him rest. Are Raider fans saying Mack needs more of a look? Rhetorical. Justin Gilbert is a fucking waste. Tabor has to explain his "progress" as a special team player. So many making excuses last year about how hard it is to be a starting corner, when Gilbert plays he's outmatched but by all means let's blame Oneill for this clown. It never ends, god forbid as fans we accept the fact THE BROWNS FUCKING STINK and it's nobody's fault but the guys who put on the jerseys and get beat.
Thanks Mike Pettine.
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Here are some potential Pettine replacements...
Top-Tier Coaching candidates (who probably would refuse the Browns' job)
David Shaw - HC - Stanford
Josh McDaniels - OC - New England
Hue Jackson - OC - Cincinnati
Re-tread coaches (might have some interest)
Jim Schwartz - FA
Eric Mangini - DC - San Francisco
Mike Smith - FA
Mike Sherman - FA (basically retired and coaching HS football)
Doug Marrone - OL/Asst.HC - Jacksonville
College Wild Cards
Art Briles - HC - Baylor (Has a pretty impressive resume)
Kevin Sumlin - HC - Texas A&M (I have no interest in him)
Coordinators
Sean McDermott - DC - Carolina
Adam Gase - OC - Bears
Darrel Bevell - OC - Seattle
There are more, but these are the only ones I'd have some interest in..
The "Dark Horse"
Matt Patricia - DC - New England (doesn't really have enough experience to make the jump, and he seems too smart to ever leave New England; however, if you read up on this guy he will certainly gather some attention from teams in need of good coaches)
Anybody else out there would probably be equal or worse than Pettine; therefore, a move would not even be worth it... And please, get over the Gruden / Cowher idea... Those guys are NEVER going to coach again...
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Wow, seeing it written out like that is fucking pathetic . . .
I don't even know how it's possible for management / coaching to be this bad. When the announcers, media . . . guys at home on the couch . . . are constantly scratching their heads about so many decisions regarding personnel / scheme / game day decisions somethings not right.
Sometimes coaches make calls that don't work out but at least you can look back and say "I can see why he did that" but some of the things going on are seriously below high school coaching grade. It's been "what the fuck are you guys doing" more often than not . . . It's really a fucking crime these guys are getting paid more money than I'll likely earn in my entire lifetime for this travesty of a season.
This last game was the straw that broke the back . . . All day long our db's are getting toasted yet still no safety help, no increase in pass rush on a gimpy QB? It's this kind of "stick to the plan" (i.e. my scheme) even if Roethlisberger is raping it stubbornness that Pettine deserves to lose his job over. Great coaches have to have the ability to adapt . . . We have more talent than 2-8 for fuck's sake.
I would rather have the panel from the after show on 43 running this team. At least three of them go way back and could probably work together cohesively. If nothing else they all love Cleveland, the Browns and the fans. What's the worst that could possibly happen . . . We become the laughing stock of the NFL?
Dixon - GM
Kosar - HC
Golic - DC
Jurevicious - OC
We've tried just about everything else.
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Wow, seeing it written out like that is fucking pathetic . . .
I don't even know how it's possible for management / coaching to be this bad. When the announcers, media . . . guys at home on the couch . . . are constantly scratching their heads about so many decisions regarding personnel / scheme / game day decisions somethings not right.
Sometimes coaches make calls that don't work out but at least you can look back and say "I can see why he did that" but some of the things going on are seriously below high school coaching grade. It's been "what the fuck are you guys doing" more often than not . . . It's really a fucking crime these guys are getting paid more money than I'll likely earn in my entire lifetime for this travesty of a season.
This last game was the straw that broke the back . . . All day long our db's are getting toasted yet still no safety help, no increase in pass rush on a gimpy QB? It's this kind of "stick to the plan" (i.e. my scheme) even if Roethlisberger is raping it stubbornness that Pettine deserves to lose his job over. Great coaches have to have the ability to adapt . . . We have more talent than 2-8 for fuck's sake.
I would rather have the panel from the after show on 43 running this team. At least three of them go way back and could probably work together cohesively. If nothing else they all love Cleveland, the Browns and the fans. What's the worst that could possibly happen . . . We become the laughing stock of the NFL?
Dixon - GM
Kosar - HC
Golic - DC
Jurevicious - OC
We've tried just about everything else.
Wow, seeing it written out like that is fucking pathetic . . .
I don't even know how it's possible for management / coaching to be this bad. When the announcers, media . . . guys at home on the couch . . . are constantly scratching their heads about so many decisions regarding personnel / scheme / game day decisions somethings not right.
Sometimes coaches make calls that don't work out but at least you can look back and say "I can see why he did that" but some of the things going on are seriously below high school coaching grade. It's been "what the fuck are you guys doing" more often than not . . . It's really a fucking crime these guys are getting paid more money than I'll likely earn in my entire lifetime for this travesty of a season.
This last game was the straw that broke the back . . . All day long our db's are getting toasted yet still no safety help, no increase in pass rush on a gimpy QB? It's this kind of "stick to the plan" (i.e. my scheme) even if Roethlisberger is raping it stubbornness that Pettine deserves to lose his job over. Great coaches have to have the ability to adapt . . . We have more talent than 2-8 for fuck's sake.
I would rather have the panel from the after show on 43 running this team. At least three of them go way back and could probably work together cohesively. If nothing else they all love Cleveland, the Browns and the fans. What's the worst that could possibly happen . . . We become the laughing stock of the NFL?
Dixon - GM
Kosar - HC
Golic - DC
Jurevicious - OC
We've tried just about everything else.
The fans here might give them 2 years before running them out of town.
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This team needs a 3/4 fire sale.
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I think I kind of had that view in the back of my mind, that Pett makes his mind up on people early and doesn't sway from that, but to see it clear like that makes it obvious.
Why is Bademosi playing over Gilbert? I've not seen Bademosi break up a pass, get a pick, or even make an open field tackle. Is Gilbert really worse than that? Bademosi has hit his ceiling, and it's very low. Gilbert could be much better.
Why is Bowe not playing? We have such a lack of playmakers at the WR position, is he really much worse than Gabriel? We had to play Marlon Moore towards the end of the game because of injuries.
Everyone knows the Manziel story - Pett doesn't like him and seems reluctant to play him at all. When McCown was injured vs AZ, he was left in there, but JFF has a contact lens issue and Davis is rushed on to the field to cover for a snap?
I really, really, hope this view is wrong, because I like Pettine as a man, and he's clearly at least a solid DC. He could be the guy to turn it around, if only he gets *his* guys in place. That means he needs to get much more involved in the scouting and drafting process, which may not be a good thing.
I think I kind of had that view in the back of my mind, that Pett makes his mind up on people early and doesn't sway from that, but to see it clear like that makes it obvious.
Why is Bademosi playing over Gilbert? I've not seen Bademosi break up a pass, get a pick, or even make an open field tackle. Is Gilbert really worse than that? Bademosi has hit his ceiling, and it's very low. Gilbert could be much better.
But they had him covering Antonio Brown- with disastrous results.
Why is Bowe not playing? We have such a lack of playmakers at the WR position, is he really much worse than Gabriel? We had to play Marlon Moore towards the end of the game because of injuries.
I think a lot of Browns fans want to know the answer.
Everyone knows the Manziel story - Pett doesn't like him and seems reluctant to play him at all. When McCown was injured vs AZ, he was left in there, but JFF has a contact lens issue and Davis is rushed on to the field to cover for a snap?
We'll see what JFF can do over the last 6 games.
I really, really, hope this view is wrong, because I like Pettine as a man, and he's clearly at least a solid DC. He could be the guy to turn it around, if only he gets *his* guys in place. That means he needs to get much more involved in the scouting and drafting process, which may not be a good thing.
Even if Manziel plays well the last 6 games, 1-5 might not be enough to save Mike's job.
I hope the inability of our pass rush to even slightly perturb a gimped Roethlisberger helped everyone realize our scheme and player need revamped next year. And that we need to draft a pass rusher. No more small fgt speed rushers either. We need someone that can take the shortest line possible to the QB.
Another reason to question Pettine and Farmer. Improved pass rush was supposed to be a priority- it's regressed.
Managing personnel development and building a winning team, not from a week-to-week basis, is one of the primary jobs of a head coach. For whatever reason, Pettine is speaking like he's in a one week bubble with his only focus on the team's next opponent. That's isn't just weird, it's insane.
His personnel decisions are questionable as Mud laid out already, and has nothing to do with the players Farmer drafted -- since Pettine continues to say he was on board with and involved in every pick Farmer made.
If they're going to deflect blame to their "Groupthink" approach, and they can't work those players into their game plans after they reached consensus on them, then their process is broken and they both need to be fired. Immediately.
Being likable and having a shaved head don't excuse you from losing 13 of your last 15 games, and looking like an amateur in the process.
What has Mike Pettine shown anyone that says he has improved the organization or his players after 26 games as the head coach? -- I'll hang up and listen.
I agree with you Mike, especially the red. Why was he all fired up to give his sixth round guy a start, or put Bademosi in a situation where he was doomed to fail, (covering Brown) instead of Gilbert- he of sub 4.4 speed. If Justin is really that bad- he has to be one of the worst CB picks in recent memory. I've been to a few games, and it's obvious his Chinese Fire drill defense isn't working.
Mud,
You outdid yourself with this thread & post & I agree totally. Pettine has some GREAT resources inside AND outside the locker room that he has REFUSED to utilize. In fact, his failure to properly utilize talent & knowledge will be his undoing.
I am one who believes we have far more talent than it appears. Improper use of that talent is killing production & morale.
I'll ride this out, but Jimmy needs to make changes with some knowledgeable consultants giving input. We MUST get it right next time.
Mike
As they say- there's not that much difference in talent level between the top and bottom teams- so why are we playing like crap all of a sudden?
Finally someone was looking at coaching candidates should Pettine get axed. I'd be down with Kirk Ferentz, if we could get him to leave Iowa.
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I think I kind of had that view in the back of my mind, that Pett makes his mind up on people early and doesn't sway from that, but to see it clear like that makes it obvious.
Why is Bademosi playing over Gilbert? I've not seen Bademosi break up a pass, get a pick, or even make an open field tackle. Is Gilbert really worse than that? Bademosi has hit his ceiling, and it's very low. Gilbert could be much better.
But they had him covering Antonio Brown- with disastrous results.
Why is Bowe not playing? We have such a lack of playmakers at the WR position, is he really much worse than Gabriel? We had to play Marlon Moore towards the end of the game because of injuries.
I think a lot of Browns fans want to know the answer.
Everyone knows the Manziel story - Pett doesn't like him and seems reluctant to play him at all. When McCown was injured vs AZ, he was left in there, but JFF has a contact lens issue and Davis is rushed on to the field to cover for a snap?
We'll see what JFF can do over the last 6 games.
I really, really, hope this view is wrong, because I like Pettine as a man, and he's clearly at least a solid DC. He could be the guy to turn it around, if only he gets *his* guys in place. That means he needs to get much more involved in the scouting and drafting process, which may not be a good thing.
Even if Manziel plays well the last 6 games, 1-5 might not be enough to save Mike's job.
I hope the inability of our pass rush to even slightly perturb a gimped Roethlisberger helped everyone realize our scheme and player need revamped next year. And that we need to draft a pass rusher. No more small fgt speed rushers either. We need someone that can take the shortest line possible to the QB.
Another reason to question Pettine and Farmer. Improved pass rush was supposed to be a priority- it's regressed.
Managing personnel development and building a winning team, not from a week-to-week basis, is one of the primary jobs of a head coach. For whatever reason, Pettine is speaking like he's in a one week bubble with his only focus on the team's next opponent. That's isn't just weird, it's insane.
His personnel decisions are questionable as Mud laid out already, and has nothing to do with the players Farmer drafted -- since Pettine continues to say he was on board with and involved in every pick Farmer made.
If they're going to deflect blame to their "Groupthink" approach, and they can't work those players into their game plans after they reached consensus on them, then their process is broken and they both need to be fired. Immediately.
Being likable and having a shaved head don't excuse you from losing 13 of your last 15 games, and looking like an amateur in the process.
What has Mike Pettine shown anyone that says he has improved the organization or his players after 26 games as the head coach? -- I'll hang up and listen.
I agree with you Mike, especially the red. Why was he all fired up to give his sixth round guy a start, or put Bademosi in a situation where he was doomed to fail, (covering Brown) instead of Gilbert- he of sub 4.4 speed. If Justin is really that bad- he has to be one of the worst CB picks in recent memory. I've been to a few games, and it's obvious his Chinese Fire drill defense isn't working.
Mud,
You outdid yourself with this thread & post & I agree totally. Pettine has some GREAT resources inside AND outside the locker room that he has REFUSED to utilize. In fact, his failure to properly utilize talent & knowledge will be his undoing.
I am one who believes we have far more talent than it appears. Improper use of that talent is killing production & morale.
I'll ride this out, but Jimmy needs to make changes with some knowledgeable consultants giving input. We MUST get it right next time.
Mike
As they say- there's not that much difference in talent level between the top and bottom teams- so why are we playing like crap all of a sudden?
Finally someone was looking at coaching candidates should Pettine get axed. I'd be down with Kirk Ferentz, if we could get him to leave Iowa.
-
I think I kind of had that view in the back of my mind, that Pett makes his mind up on people early and doesn't sway from that, but to see it clear like that makes it obvious.
Why is Bademosi playing over Gilbert? I've not seen Bademosi break up a pass, get a pick, or even make an open field tackle. Is Gilbert really worse than that? Bademosi has hit his ceiling, and it's very low. Gilbert could be much better.
But they had him covering Antonio Brown- with disastrous results.
Why is Bowe not playing? We have such a lack of playmakers at the WR position, is he really much worse than Gabriel? We had to play Marlon Moore towards the end of the game because of injuries.
I think a lot of Browns fans want to know the answer.
Everyone knows the Manziel story - Pett doesn't like him and seems reluctant to play him at all. When McCown was injured vs AZ, he was left in there, but JFF has a contact lens issue and Davis is rushed on to the field to cover for a snap?
We'll see what JFF can do over the last 6 games.
I really, really, hope this view is wrong, because I like Pettine as a man, and he's clearly at least a solid DC. He could be the guy to turn it around, if only he gets *his* guys in place. That means he needs to get much more involved in the scouting and drafting process, which may not be a good thing.
Even if Manziel plays well the last 6 games, 1-5 might not be enough to save Mike's job.
I hope the inability of our pass rush to even slightly perturb a gimped Roethlisberger helped everyone realize our scheme and player need revamped next year. And that we need to draft a pass rusher. No more small fgt speed rushers either. We need someone that can take the shortest line possible to the QB.
Another reason to question Pettine and Farmer. Improved pass rush was supposed to be a priority- it's regressed.
Managing personnel development and building a winning team, not from a week-to-week basis, is one of the primary jobs of a head coach. For whatever reason, Pettine is speaking like he's in a one week bubble with his only focus on the team's next opponent. That's isn't just weird, it's insane.
His personnel decisions are questionable as Mud laid out already, and has nothing to do with the players Farmer drafted -- since Pettine continues to say he was on board with and involved in every pick Farmer made.
If they're going to deflect blame to their "Groupthink" approach, and they can't work those players into their game plans after they reached consensus on them, then their process is broken and they both need to be fired. Immediately.
Being likable and having a shaved head don't excuse you from losing 13 of your last 15 games, and looking like an amateur in the process.
What has Mike Pettine shown anyone that says he has improved the organization or his players after 26 games as the head coach? -- I'll hang up and listen.
I agree with you Mike, especially the red. Why was he all fired up to give his sixth round guy a start, or put Bademosi in a situation where he was doomed to fail, (covering Brown) instead of Gilbert- he of sub 4.4 speed. If Justin is really that bad- he has to be one of the worst CB picks in recent memory. I've been to a few games, and it's obvious his Chinese Fire drill defense isn't working.
Mud,
You outdid yourself with this thread & post & I agree totally. Pettine has some GREAT resources inside AND outside the locker room that he has REFUSED to utilize. In fact, his failure to properly utilize talent & knowledge will be his undoing.
I am one who believes we have far more talent than it appears. Improper use of that talent is killing production & morale.
I'll ride this out, but Jimmy needs to make changes with some knowledgeable consultants giving input. We MUST get it right next time.
Mike
As they say- there's not that much difference in talent level between the top and bottom teams- so why are we playing like crap all of a sudden?
Finally someone was looking at coaching candidates should Pettine get axed. I'd be down with Kirk Ferentz, if we could get him to leave Iowa.
Finally someone was looking at coaching candidates should Pettine get axed. I'd be down with Kirk Ferentz, if we could get him to leave Iowa.
Not dismissing him as a good candidate if we're looking but surprised that his record at Iowa isn't all that great...
Overall 137–106 Bowls 6–6 -
I think I kind of had that view in the back of my mind, that Pett makes his mind up on people early and doesn't sway from that, but to see it clear like that makes it obvious.
Why is Bademosi playing over Gilbert? I've not seen Bademosi break up a pass, get a pick, or even make an open field tackle. Is Gilbert really worse than that? Bademosi has hit his ceiling, and it's very low. Gilbert could be much better.
But they had him covering Antonio Brown- with disastrous results.
Why is Bowe not playing? We have such a lack of playmakers at the WR position, is he really much worse than Gabriel? We had to play Marlon Moore towards the end of the game because of injuries.
I think a lot of Browns fans want to know the answer.
Everyone knows the Manziel story - Pett doesn't like him and seems reluctant to play him at all. When McCown was injured vs AZ, he was left in there, but JFF has a contact lens issue and Davis is rushed on to the field to cover for a snap?
We'll see what JFF can do over the last 6 games.
I really, really, hope this view is wrong, because I like Pettine as a man, and he's clearly at least a solid DC. He could be the guy to turn it around, if only he gets *his* guys in place. That means he needs to get much more involved in the scouting and drafting process, which may not be a good thing.
Even if Manziel plays well the last 6 games, 1-5 might not be enough to save Mike's job.
I hope the inability of our pass rush to even slightly perturb a gimped Roethlisberger helped everyone realize our scheme and player need revamped next year. And that we need to draft a pass rusher. No more small fgt speed rushers either. We need someone that can take the shortest line possible to the QB.
Another reason to question Pettine and Farmer. Improved pass rush was supposed to be a priority- it's regressed.
Managing personnel development and building a winning team, not from a week-to-week basis, is one of the primary jobs of a head coach. For whatever reason, Pettine is speaking like he's in a one week bubble with his only focus on the team's next opponent. That's isn't just weird, it's insane.
His personnel decisions are questionable as Mud laid out already, and has nothing to do with the players Farmer drafted -- since Pettine continues to say he was on board with and involved in every pick Farmer made.
If they're going to deflect blame to their "Groupthink" approach, and they can't work those players into their game plans after they reached consensus on them, then their process is broken and they both need to be fired. Immediately.
Being likable and having a shaved head don't excuse you from losing 13 of your last 15 games, and looking like an amateur in the process.
What has Mike Pettine shown anyone that says he has improved the organization or his players after 26 games as the head coach? -- I'll hang up and listen.
I agree with you Mike, especially the red. Why was he all fired up to give his sixth round guy a start, or put Bademosi in a situation where he was doomed to fail, (covering Brown) instead of Gilbert- he of sub 4.4 speed. If Justin is really that bad- he has to be one of the worst CB picks in recent memory. I've been to a few games, and it's obvious his Chinese Fire drill defense isn't working.
Mud,
You outdid yourself with this thread & post & I agree totally. Pettine has some GREAT resources inside AND outside the locker room that he has REFUSED to utilize. In fact, his failure to properly utilize talent & knowledge will be his undoing.
I am one who believes we have far more talent than it appears. Improper use of that talent is killing production & morale.
I'll ride this out, but Jimmy needs to make changes with some knowledgeable consultants giving input. We MUST get it right next time.
Mike
As they say- there's not that much difference in talent level between the top and bottom teams- so why are we playing like crap all of a sudden?
Finally someone was looking at coaching candidates should Pettine get axed. I'd be down with Kirk Ferentz, if we could get him to leave Iowa.
I'd be down with Kirk Ferentz, if we could get him to leave Iowa.
you mean a guy that was an assistant under belichick while he was here? and saban as the DC under belichick?
i think i put my vote in for him 2 years ago.
everyone wants to bitch about belichick being a cheat but imagine if we had the whole staff here for at least 10 years w/o the move?
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This OP is phenomenal. How anyone reads it and concludes Farmer is the problem is beyond me. Farmer strikes me as a guy that knows exactly what his plan is and he's the smartest guy in the room. This guy probably pounds 3 books a week. He came in with a plan and is executing that plan on his end.
Very few of his draft picks/FA picks were horrible on paper, but a coach simply refusing to play them will of course make them look bad. Additionally, he's made the nice UDFA pick ups we're all aware of.
He giftwrapped Pettine the most expensive defense in the league (and you can't find enough examples of gross overpayment to say expectations of it shouldn't have been high) in addition to an offense that is plenty good. Yet we sit here at 2-8. And that's Ray freaking Farmer's fault? How? Good job Mud.
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This OP is phenomenal. How anyone reads it and concludes Farmer is the problem is beyond me. Farmer strikes me as a guy that knows exactly what his plan is and he's the smartest guy in the room. This guy probably pounds 3 books a week. He came in with a plan and is executing that plan on his end.
Very few of his draft picks/FA picks were horrible on paper, but a coach simply refusing to play them will of course make them look bad. Additionally, he's made the nice UDFA pick ups we're all aware of.
He giftwrapped Pettine the most expensive defense in the league (and you can't find enough examples of gross overpayment to say expectations of it shouldn't have been high) in addition to an offense that is plenty good. Yet we sit here at 2-8. And that's Ray freaking Farmer's fault? How? Good job Mud.
This OP is phenomenal. How anyone reads it and concludes Farmer is the problem is beyond me. Farmer strikes me as a guy that knows exactly what his plan is and he's the smartest guy in the room. This guy probably pounds 3 books a week. He came in with a plan and is executing that plan on his end.
Very few of his draft picks/FA picks were horrible on paper, but a coach simply refusing to play them will of course make them look bad. Additionally, he's made the nice UDFA pick ups we're all aware of.
He giftwrapped Pettine the most expensive defense in the league (and you can't find enough examples of gross overpayment to say expectations of it shouldn't have been high) in addition to an offense that is plenty good. Yet we sit here at 2-8. And that's Ray freaking Farmer's fault? How? Good job Mud.
Well, when your first round picks like Gilbert, JMZ, Erving, Shelton fail to produce right away, you will be in for criticism. But I agree that these guys all need time to prove themselves.
Its just that we have seen the Weeden's/Mingos/TRs/ etc. fail.....we are conditioned to think that the newer picks are going to be failures as well since they haven't clicked right away.
Bottom line: these guys need to step it up and perform according to their draft status for us to think that Farmer has made good choices.
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This OP is phenomenal. How anyone reads it and concludes Farmer is the problem is beyond me. Farmer strikes me as a guy that knows exactly what his plan is and he's the smartest guy in the room. This guy probably pounds 3 books a week. He came in with a plan and is executing that plan on his end.
Very few of his draft picks/FA picks were horrible on paper, but a coach simply refusing to play them will of course make them look bad. Additionally, he's made the nice UDFA pick ups we're all aware of.
He giftwrapped Pettine the most expensive defense in the league (and you can't find enough examples of gross overpayment to say expectations of it shouldn't have been high) in addition to an offense that is plenty good. Yet we sit here at 2-8. And that's Ray freaking Farmer's fault? How? Good job Mud.
Well, when your first round picks like Gilbert, JMZ, Erving, Shelton fail to produce right away, you will be in for criticism. But I agree that these guys all need time to prove themselves.
Its just that we have seen the Weeden's/Mingos/TRs/ etc. fail.....we are conditioned to think that the newer picks are going to be failures as well since they haven't clicked right away.
Bottom line: these guys need to step it up and perform according to their draft status for us to think that Farmer has made good choices.
Well, when your first round picks like Gilbert, JMZ, Erving, Shelton fail to produce right away, you will be in for criticism. But I agree that these guys all need time to prove themselves.
Its just that we have seen the Weeden's/Mingos/TRs/ etc. fail.....we are conditioned to think that the newer picks are going to be failures as well since they haven't clicked right away.
Bottom line: these guys need to step it up and perform according to their draft status for us to think that Farmer has made good choices.
I agree Gipper. And with that thought in mind they need to commit to the rest of the season for Gilbert and Erving as well if they really want to know what they can do going forward. Shelton at least plays as does Orchard now.
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Orchard will be a good player I think, he's flashing
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