Jonathan Paul Manziel
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I can't get over people still defending this clown.
Of course others players drink, but Johnny clearly has a problem with self control. He went to rehab for piss sake.
This was his shot. All he had to do was lay low for a few days. If he really wanted to impress the organization and give them reason to believe they could finally rely on him, he could have done so many other things to kick back on his off time. This dumbass does the one thing he absolutely knows could bite him in the ass and blow his opportunity. Then he comes up with some lame ass non denial-denial about the video "could be" old. What the fuck ever, Johnny. He knew it wasn't old. Lies and cover ups. He's really good at that.
Why is it so fucking hard to stay out of the limelight for four to six months out of the year? He makes millions of dollars for working half a year. The other six months he can do whatever the hell he wants. Is that really too much to ask? Act like a pro for half the year and get paid an exorbitant amount of money to do it. How many people would fuck that up because they can't control themselves that long?
This is no ones fault but Johnny. He wasn't being filmed on the down low by a fan. His stupid ass was mugging for the camera. THAT is what Johnny loves. More than he loved his chance at being a starting NFL QB.
I can't get over people still defending this clown.
Of course others players drink, but Johnny clearly has a problem with self control. He went to rehab for piss sake.
This was his shot. All he had to do was lay low for a few days. If he really wanted to impress the organization and give them reason to believe they could finally rely on him, he could have done so many other things to kick back on his off time. This dumbass does the one thing he absolutely knows could bite him in the ass and blow his opportunity. Then he comes up with some lame ass non denial-denial about the video "could be" old. What the fuck ever, Johnny. He knew it wasn't old. Lies and cover ups. He's really good at that.
Why is it so fucking hard to stay out of the limelight for four to six months out of the year? He makes millions of dollars for working half a year. The other six months he can do whatever the hell he wants. Is that really too much to ask? Act like a pro for half the year and get paid an exorbitant amount of money to do it. How many people would fuck that up because they can't control themselves that long?
This is no ones fault but Johnny. He wasn't being filmed on the down low by a fan. His stupid ass was mugging for the camera. THAT is what Johnny loves. More than he loved his chance at being a starting NFL QB.
This is a pretty good take here ^
He just doesn't want it enough ... or something he can't control is pulling him away from it.
It's not more complicated than this: The organization said "After all we have been through, we are going to trust you and are giving you the keys to the franchise, show us, in return, that you are committed to the franchise."
The hungry guy is going to do the gym rat thing. Hoyer, McCown, etc. Use the world class training facility, spend time with the coaches (they stick around for most of the bye), study film. Have dinner out with some wine, or be seen at a bar in Cleveland talking to people like an adult ... no one cares.
Fly to Texas, be seen in a club two nights in a row, drunk, singing in a douchebag video holding a bottle of champagne ... C'mon, man!
I'm sure he loves the game, and I'm sure he wants to be a starting QB in the NFL ... but he is not committed to the Cleveland Browns ... something is pulling him away ... and Pettine made the right call.
Zombo
--I got the same talk when I was in my twenties ... a couple times. "We think you are really talented, and we want you to be a part of what we are doing here, but we're not sure if you are committed to your job, and you need to decide that." They were right, I wasn't committed. Johnny is on a much bigger platform, but he needs to decide whether he wants to follow his dream of being an NFL star or being a lot of "fun" and making commercials with Matt Leinart, Brian Bosworth and Heath Shuler.
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It's not like Manziel is a gem. Who cares if he's dumb on purpose because he wants to leave - ship him out, we have 2 quarterbacks on the roster who are better than him anyway.
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And IMO, a professional NFL quarterback should be expected to be held to higher standards off the field than an average guy - unless you want to have a Kyle Orton type of career.
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I can't get over people still defending this clown.
Of course others players drink, but Johnny clearly has a problem with self control. He went to rehab for piss sake.
This was his shot. All he had to do was lay low for a few days. If he really wanted to impress the organization and give them reason to believe they could finally rely on him, he could have done so many other things to kick back on his off time. This dumbass does the one thing he absolutely knows could bite him in the ass and blow his opportunity. Then he comes up with some lame ass non denial-denial about the video "could be" old. What the fuck ever, Johnny. He knew it wasn't old. Lies and cover ups. He's really good at that.
Why is it so fucking hard to stay out of the limelight for four to six months out of the year? He makes millions of dollars for working half a year. The other six months he can do whatever the hell he wants. Is that really too much to ask? Act like a pro for half the year and get paid an exorbitant amount of money to do it. How many people would fuck that up because they can't control themselves that long?
This is no ones fault but Johnny. He wasn't being filmed on the down low by a fan. His stupid ass was mugging for the camera. THAT is what Johnny loves. More than he loved his chance at being a starting NFL QB.
This is a pretty good take here ^
He just doesn't want it enough ... or something he can't control is pulling him away from it.
It's not more complicated than this: The organization said "After all we have been through, we are going to trust you and are giving you the keys to the franchise, show us, in return, that you are committed to the franchise."
The hungry guy is going to do the gym rat thing. Hoyer, McCown, etc. Use the world class training facility, spend time with the coaches (they stick around for most of the bye), study film. Have dinner out with some wine, or be seen at a bar in Cleveland talking to people like an adult ... no one cares.
Fly to Texas, be seen in a club two nights in a row, drunk, singing in a douchebag video holding a bottle of champagne ... C'mon, man!
I'm sure he loves the game, and I'm sure he wants to be a starting QB in the NFL ... but he is not committed to the Cleveland Browns ... something is pulling him away ... and Pettine made the right call.
Zombo
--I got the same talk when I was in my twenties ... a couple times. "We think you are really talented, and we want you to be a part of what we are doing here, but we're not sure if you are committed to your job, and you need to decide that." They were right, I wasn't committed. Johnny is on a much bigger platform, but he needs to decide whether he wants to follow his dream of being an NFL star or being a lot of "fun" and making commercials with Matt Leinart, Brian Bosworth and Heath Shuler.
Zombo said:
This is a pretty good take here ^
He just doesn't want it enough ... or something he can't control is pulling him away from it.
It's not more complicated than this: The organization said "After all we have been through, we are going to trust you and are giving you the keys to the franchise, show us, in return, that you are committed to the franchise."
The hungry guy is going to do the gym rat thing. Hoyer, McCown, etc. Use the world class training facility, spend time with the coaches (they stick around for most of the bye), study film. Have dinner out with some wine, or be seen at a bar in Cleveland talking to people like an adult ... no one cares.
Fly to Texas, be seen in a club two nights in a row, drunk, singing in a douchebag video holding a bottle of champagne ... C'mon, man!
I'm sure he loves the game, and I'm sure he wants to be a starting QB in the NFL ... but he is not committed to the Cleveland Browns ... something is pulling him away ... and Pettine made the right call.
Zombo
--I got the same talk when I was in my twenties ... a couple times. "We think you are really talented, and we want you to be a part of what we are doing here, but we're not sure if you are committed to your job, and you need to decide that." They were right, I wasn't committed. Johnny is on a much bigger platform, but he needs to decide whether he wants to follow his dream of being an NFL star or being a lot of "fun" and making commercials with Matt Leinart, Brian Bosworth and Heath Shuler.
Z, my argument to you is what do you consider "commitment" in a true sense? By all accounts he's done everything you said. Multiple people have said this too that he's in the locker room, studying film and learning under McCown and the coaches. Do you want to be at your job 24/7 with no down time? People gotta relax no matter the job. How many other players were doing that during the bye week do you think? Just my opinion, commitment is doing whatever it takes to play well on the field barring illegal activities (Ray Rice, Gordan, Hardy etc). No one here can deny Johnny on the field has gotten a lot better and in many ways looked like the makings of a franchise dude on Sunday.
So, I'd argue he is committed to the Browns by showing it on the field. The argument of "being the face of the franchise" is laughable to me at best. The "face" of the Browns right now is being the literal laughing stock of the entire NFL. We trot the guys with squeaky clean images out there and they suck, flat out garbage football. That's the only way anyone sees the Browns in the league, and Johnny singing along in a club can't make that worse.
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And IMO, a professional NFL quarterback should be expected to be held to higher standards off the field than an average guy - unless you want to have a Kyle Orton type of career.
And IMO, a professional NFL quarterback should be expected to be held to higher standards off the field than an average guy - unless you want to have a Kyle Orton type of career.
I would love to disagree with you and say the guy did nothing wrong...but you are absolutely right. Manziel HAD TO KNOW that his partying would be caught on someone's cell phone, and he still chose to put himself in that situation. Many of us know friends and family that have struggled with addiction, and the people I know battling that horror NEVER got it right during their first year. I find myself wanting to give him the benefit of the doubt, but how many chances can a guy get? Addiction is a complicated issue, and we really don't know what he received treatment for. Regardless of what substance he had a problem with, I don't know of ANY treatment plan that allows an addict to drink alcohol. Again, I obviously don't have access to any of his treatment guidelines, and that's very personal, but I can't imagine that "going to the club and getting hammered" was part of the plan. Manziel literally JUST said he wouldn't be an embarrassment or distraction, and two days later...BOOM.
That being said, his story follows the same script as many people I've been in contact with that struggle with addiction. They take three steps forward, and then a few backwards. Problem is, that doesn't appear to be good enough when you're an NFL QB. On one hand, one could argue that the guy isn't getting arrested, doing drugs, failing PED tests, or anything else that gets him in trouble with the league...but he's held to a higher standard. He knew that. And there's simply no excuse.
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And IMO, a professional NFL quarterback should be expected to be held to higher standards off the field than an average guy - unless you want to have a Kyle Orton type of career.
I would love to disagree with you and say the guy did nothing wrong...but you are absolutely right. Manziel HAD TO KNOW that his partying would be caught on someone's cell phone, and he still chose to put himself in that situation. Many of us know friends and family that have struggled with addiction, and the people I know battling that horror NEVER got it right during their first year. I find myself wanting to give him the benefit of the doubt, but how many chances can a guy get? Addiction is a complicated issue, and we really don't know what he received treatment for. Regardless of what substance he had a problem with, I don't know of ANY treatment plan that allows an addict to drink alcohol. Again, I obviously don't have access to any of his treatment guidelines, and that's very personal, but I can't imagine that "going to the club and getting hammered" was part of the plan. Manziel literally JUST said he wouldn't be an embarrassment or distraction, and two days later...BOOM.
That being said, his story follows the same script as many people I've been in contact with that struggle with addiction. They take three steps forward, and then a few backwards. Problem is, that doesn't appear to be good enough when you're an NFL QB. On one hand, one could argue that the guy isn't getting arrested, doing drugs, failing PED tests, or anything else that gets him in trouble with the league...but he's held to a higher standard. He knew that. And there's simply no excuse.
sooooo right! When they found out that he lied to them about the bye week, they have to figure it's just some time before he does get arrested, fail drug screens etc. Now they know that it's just throwing good money at badI would love to disagree with you and say the guy did nothing wrong...but you are absolutely right. Manziel HAD TO KNOW that his partying would be caught on someone's cell phone, and he still chose to put himself in that situation. Many of us know friends and family that have struggled with addiction, and the people I know battling that horror NEVER got it right during their first year. I find myself wanting to give him the benefit of the doubt, but how many chances can a guy get? Addiction is a complicated issue, and we really don't know what he received treatment for. Regardless of what substance he had a problem with, I don't know of ANY treatment plan that allows an addict to drink alcohol. Again, I obviously don't have access to any of his treatment guidelines, and that's very personal, but I can't imagine that "going to the club and getting hammered" was part of the plan. Manziel literally JUST said he wouldn't be an embarrassment or distraction, and two days later...BOOM.
That being said, his story follows the same script as many people I've been in contact with that struggle with addiction. They take three steps forward, and then a few backwards. Problem is, that doesn't appear to be good enough when you're an NFL QB. On one hand, one could argue that the guy isn't getting arrested, doing drugs, failing PED tests, or anything else that gets him in trouble with the league...but he's held to a higher standard. He knew that. And there's simply no excuse.
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So when exactly did you get off the Pettine train, TCPO? Just curious because I know you were supporting him most of the season.
On this one, I respect your position but I can't agree with it. There's a quote from Nick Saban out there that I think is relevant:
"Somebody tells you to do something. Somebody sets a standard of how you're gonna do it. You understand it. It's defined. And then you show that you have the ability, and the accountability, to do it that way."
I don't think Johnny should be done as a Brown because of this (though I would never cut a player due strictly to off the field stuff), but I think the benching was deserved. I would have given him a one or two game suspension though. Total suspension. Don't show up at the facility. We'll mail you game plans and you can decide whether to look at them just for your own edification or not. This gives Johnny the perfect opportunity to either accept it and move on, or go drink yet again. If he takes the first tack, he can come back and start.
So when exactly did you get off the Pettine train, TCPO? Just curious because I know you were supporting him most of the season.
On this one, I respect your position but I can't agree with it. There's a quote from Nick Saban out there that I think is relevant:
"Somebody tells you to do something. Somebody sets a standard of how you're gonna do it. You understand it. It's defined. And then you show that you have the ability, and the accountability, to do it that way."
I don't think Johnny should be done as a Brown because of this (though I would never cut a player due strictly to off the field stuff), but I think the benching was deserved. I would have given him a one or two game suspension though. Total suspension. Don't show up at the facility. We'll mail you game plans and you can decide whether to look at them just for your own edification or not. This gives Johnny the perfect opportunity to either accept it and move on, or go drink yet again. If he takes the first tack, he can come back and start.
I jumped off the Pettine train about two weeks ago, when reports about how he handles roster decisions emerged. Since then, more than one player has voiced concern over this organization, either in Twitter or in interviews. Team on Williams, Duke Johnson, unnamed sources - all have said one thing or another about this team.
And it shows - Pettine has been hesitant over the QB situation since he started here, the situation with Gilbert, the situation with Bowe, the situation with our running backs. There's a rift between Farmer and Pettine and it's pretty obvious.
Pettine's motto is that its next man up, but when Gaines is being beaten like he stole something - he doesn't replace him with Gilbert. Pettine says that we're going to run the ball and have a solid defense - yet those are our two worst aspects. Pettine flounders back and forth, then eventually names Johnny the starter, then pulls it away only a few days later for some moral violation of Pettine's power. Pettine says everyone is he accountable, then deflects questions about his defense or O'Neil's performance.
Farmer signs Terrelle Pryor as a project WR, then Farmer goes on suspension and we release TP for Robert Turbin. Farmer comes back, we wait weeks for Turbin's unveiling, then he comes in and essentially loses us a game in his limited time, so Farmer cuts him. Turbin was never a Farmer guy.
For my money, I'd rather have Farmer. On paper, he has stocked this team with needed talent at required positions, yet the coaching staff is flat out refusing to play some of these guys. We draft a top physical corner with confidence issues and what does Pettine do? He benched him immediately, questions his motivation and says he needs to mature. We draft a utility lineman to spot fill in for a year or two and develop, and Pettine doesn't practice him at every position.
He's just a disingenuous asshole who is in way over his head. He's so stuck to "his system" that he doesn't even care that it's losing us games. If it were the player's fault, you wouldn't have a consummate pro like Tramon Williams saying "just let the player's play, man!"
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I have a problem with the whole ultimatum thing to begin with. Guy didn't get arrested, beat up his girlfriend etc etc, so who the fuck cares what he did? Oh yeah TMZ and the mindless sheep who soak that shit up.
By all accounts Johnny has been doing what he's been supposed to be doing as far as football operations are concerned. How would you all feel if your boss told you "Thanks you're doing well!! You show up early, stay late and do everything we ask . . . BTW over break you can't go out and have some drinks and blow of some steam singing at a club"
The rules are the rules and you shouldn't go making them up as you go along. You shouldn't be holding one guy to a standard different from another guy. As others have said it's bad management.
Johnny should have told Pettine that day "look man I do everything you ask, but my time is my time." Instead of making promises he never planned on keeping. I'll give Pettine that.
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Zombo said:
This is a pretty good take here ^
He just doesn't want it enough ... or something he can't control is pulling him away from it.
It's not more complicated than this: The organization said "After all we have been through, we are going to trust you and are giving you the keys to the franchise, show us, in return, that you are committed to the franchise."
The hungry guy is going to do the gym rat thing. Hoyer, McCown, etc. Use the world class training facility, spend time with the coaches (they stick around for most of the bye), study film. Have dinner out with some wine, or be seen at a bar in Cleveland talking to people like an adult ... no one cares.
Fly to Texas, be seen in a club two nights in a row, drunk, singing in a douchebag video holding a bottle of champagne ... C'mon, man!
I'm sure he loves the game, and I'm sure he wants to be a starting QB in the NFL ... but he is not committed to the Cleveland Browns ... something is pulling him away ... and Pettine made the right call.
Zombo
--I got the same talk when I was in my twenties ... a couple times. "We think you are really talented, and we want you to be a part of what we are doing here, but we're not sure if you are committed to your job, and you need to decide that." They were right, I wasn't committed. Johnny is on a much bigger platform, but he needs to decide whether he wants to follow his dream of being an NFL star or being a lot of "fun" and making commercials with Matt Leinart, Brian Bosworth and Heath Shuler.
Z, my argument to you is what do you consider "commitment" in a true sense? By all accounts he's done everything you said. Multiple people have said this too that he's in the locker room, studying film and learning under McCown and the coaches. Do you want to be at your job 24/7 with no down time? People gotta relax no matter the job. How many other players were doing that during the bye week do you think? Just my opinion, commitment is doing whatever it takes to play well on the field barring illegal activities (Ray Rice, Gordan, Hardy etc). No one here can deny Johnny on the field has gotten a lot better and in many ways looked like the makings of a franchise dude on Sunday.
So, I'd argue he is committed to the Browns by showing it on the field. The argument of "being the face of the franchise" is laughable to me at best. The "face" of the Browns right now is being the literal laughing stock of the entire NFL. We trot the guys with squeaky clean images out there and they suck, flat out garbage football. That's the only way anyone sees the Browns in the league, and Johnny singing along in a club can't make that worse.
Z, my argument to you is what do you consider "commitment" in a true sense? By all accounts he's done everything you said. Multiple people have said this too that he's in the locker room, studying film and learning under McCown and the coaches. Do you want to be at your job 24/7 with no down time? People gotta relax no matter the job. How many other players were doing that during the bye week do you think? Just my opinion, commitment is doing whatever it takes to play well on the field barring illegal activities (Ray Rice, Gordan, Hardy etc). No one here can deny Johnny on the field has gotten a lot better and in many ways looked like the makings of a franchise dude on Sunday.
So, I'd argue he is committed to the Browns by showing it on the field. The argument of "being the face of the franchise" is laughable to me at best. The "face" of the Browns right now is being the literal laughing stock of the entire NFL. We trot the guys with squeaky clean images out there and they suck, flat out garbage football. That's the only way anyone sees the Browns in the league, and Johnny singing along in a club can't make that worse.
Well, none of us have all the facts, that is why our opinions can run the full gamut.
My feeling is that he was told, in certain terms, that part of the deal going forward is X,Y, and Z. And he fucked up on Z within less than a week of being named starter.
He's playing by different rules for two reasons:
1. Last year. He admitted last year was a total fail, and vowed to be a different perseon. That invites further scrutiny. Then this year he got a pass on the drunken psycho girlfriend thing, but that got him a seat face-to-face with NFL reps, Farmer and Pet. Less rope ... more expected. More, as in, don't be the typical 22 year old and go back to your college town and party with the boys ... show us you are ALL IN. Stay. Learn. Get better. That's the "commitment" that was apparently missing.
2. Starting QB. Pet said it best ... To whom much is given, much is expected. 6 weeks on the clock. Text your friends and tell them you'll catch up in January. They may have heard about your promotion at work. Go all in for 6 weeks, and if you prove yourself on the field, you will have a lot more leeway off of it. Biggest opportunity of your life. You just escaped NFL punishment, you just re-committed yourself verbally to your employer ... you have it all right in front of you ... your buds can wait six weeks.
Zombo
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Z, my argument to you is what do you consider "commitment" in a true sense? By all accounts he's done everything you said. Multiple people have said this too that he's in the locker room, studying film and learning under McCown and the coaches. Do you want to be at your job 24/7 with no down time? People gotta relax no matter the job. How many other players were doing that during the bye week do you think? Just my opinion, commitment is doing whatever it takes to play well on the field barring illegal activities (Ray Rice, Gordan, Hardy etc). No one here can deny Johnny on the field has gotten a lot better and in many ways looked like the makings of a franchise dude on Sunday.
So, I'd argue he is committed to the Browns by showing it on the field. The argument of "being the face of the franchise" is laughable to me at best. The "face" of the Browns right now is being the literal laughing stock of the entire NFL. We trot the guys with squeaky clean images out there and they suck, flat out garbage football. That's the only way anyone sees the Browns in the league, and Johnny singing along in a club can't make that worse.
Well, none of us have all the facts, that is why our opinions can run the full gamut.
My feeling is that he was told, in certain terms, that part of the deal going forward is X,Y, and Z. And he fucked up on Z within less than a week of being named starter.
He's playing by different rules for two reasons:
1. Last year. He admitted last year was a total fail, and vowed to be a different perseon. That invites further scrutiny. Then this year he got a pass on the drunken psycho girlfriend thing, but that got him a seat face-to-face with NFL reps, Farmer and Pet. Less rope ... more expected. More, as in, don't be the typical 22 year old and go back to your college town and party with the boys ... show us you are ALL IN. Stay. Learn. Get better. That's the "commitment" that was apparently missing.
2. Starting QB. Pet said it best ... To whom much is given, much is expected. 6 weeks on the clock. Text your friends and tell them you'll catch up in January. They may have heard about your promotion at work. Go all in for 6 weeks, and if you prove yourself on the field, you will have a lot more leeway off of it. Biggest opportunity of your life. You just escaped NFL punishment, you just re-committed yourself verbally to your employer ... you have it all right in front of you ... your buds can wait six weeks.
Zombo
Zombo said:
Well, none of us have all the facts, that is why our opinions can run the full gamut.
My feeling is that he was told, in certain terms, that part of the deal going forward is X,Y, and Z. And he fucked up on Z within less than a week of being named starter.
He's playing by different rules for two reasons:
1. Last year. He admitted last year was a total fail, and vowed to be a different perseon. That invites further scrutiny. Then this year he got a pass on the drunken psycho girlfriend thing, but that got him a seat face-to-face with NFL reps, Farmer and Pet. Less rope ... more expected. More, as in, don't be the typical 22 year old and go back to your college town and party with the boys ... show us you are ALL IN. Stay. Learn. Get better. That's the "commitment" that was apparently missing.
2. Starting QB. Pet said it best ... To whom much is given, much is expected. 6 weeks on the clock. Text your friends and tell them you'll catch up in January. They may have heard about your promotion at work. Go all in for 6 weeks, and if you prove yourself on the field, you will have a lot more leeway off of it. Biggest opportunity of your life. You just escaped NFL punishment, you just re-committed yourself verbally to your employer ... you have it all right in front of you ... your buds can wait six weeks.
Zombo
And he could not wait those 6 weeks! Sounds just like all the addicts I have ever spent time around. I for one want a friggin QB! Not some fool. It may sound sad but fuck him
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So when exactly did you get off the Pettine train, TCPO? Just curious because I know you were supporting him most of the season.
On this one, I respect your position but I can't agree with it. There's a quote from Nick Saban out there that I think is relevant:
"Somebody tells you to do something. Somebody sets a standard of how you're gonna do it. You understand it. It's defined. And then you show that you have the ability, and the accountability, to do it that way."
I don't think Johnny should be done as a Brown because of this (though I would never cut a player due strictly to off the field stuff), but I think the benching was deserved. I would have given him a one or two game suspension though. Total suspension. Don't show up at the facility. We'll mail you game plans and you can decide whether to look at them just for your own edification or not. This gives Johnny the perfect opportunity to either accept it and move on, or go drink yet again. If he takes the first tack, he can come back and start.
I jumped off the Pettine train about two weeks ago, when reports about how he handles roster decisions emerged. Since then, more than one player has voiced concern over this organization, either in Twitter or in interviews. Team on Williams, Duke Johnson, unnamed sources - all have said one thing or another about this team.
And it shows - Pettine has been hesitant over the QB situation since he started here, the situation with Gilbert, the situation with Bowe, the situation with our running backs. There's a rift between Farmer and Pettine and it's pretty obvious.
Pettine's motto is that its next man up, but when Gaines is being beaten like he stole something - he doesn't replace him with Gilbert. Pettine says that we're going to run the ball and have a solid defense - yet those are our two worst aspects. Pettine flounders back and forth, then eventually names Johnny the starter, then pulls it away only a few days later for some moral violation of Pettine's power. Pettine says everyone is he accountable, then deflects questions about his defense or O'Neil's performance.
Farmer signs Terrelle Pryor as a project WR, then Farmer goes on suspension and we release TP for Robert Turbin. Farmer comes back, we wait weeks for Turbin's unveiling, then he comes in and essentially loses us a game in his limited time, so Farmer cuts him. Turbin was never a Farmer guy.
For my money, I'd rather have Farmer. On paper, he has stocked this team with needed talent at required positions, yet the coaching staff is flat out refusing to play some of these guys. We draft a top physical corner with confidence issues and what does Pettine do? He benched him immediately, questions his motivation and says he needs to mature. We draft a utility lineman to spot fill in for a year or two and develop, and Pettine doesn't practice him at every position.
He's just a disingenuous asshole who is in way over his head. He's so stuck to "his system" that he doesn't even care that it's losing us games. If it were the player's fault, you wouldn't have a consummate pro like Tramon Williams saying "just let the player's play, man!"
I jumped off the Pettine train about two weeks ago, when reports about how he handles roster decisions emerged. Since then, more than one player has voiced concern over this organization, either in Twitter or in interviews. Team on Williams, Duke Johnson, unnamed sources - all have said one thing or another about this team.
And it shows - Pettine has been hesitant over the QB situation since he started here, the situation with Gilbert, the situation with Bowe, the situation with our running backs. There's a rift between Farmer and Pettine and it's pretty obvious.
Pettine's motto is that its next man up, but when Gaines is being beaten like he stole something - he doesn't replace him with Gilbert. Pettine says that we're going to run the ball and have a solid defense - yet those are our two worst aspects. Pettine flounders back and forth, then eventually names Johnny the starter, then pulls it away only a few days later for some moral violation of Pettine's power. Pettine says everyone is he accountable, then deflects questions about his defense or O'Neil's performance.
Farmer signs Terrelle Pryor as a project WR, then Farmer goes on suspension and we release TP for Robert Turbin. Farmer comes back, we wait weeks for Turbin's unveiling, then he comes in and essentially loses us a game in his limited time, so Farmer cuts him. Turbin was never a Farmer guy.
For my money, I'd rather have Farmer. On paper, he has stocked this team with needed talent at required positions, yet the coaching staff is flat out refusing to play some of these guys. We draft a top physical corner with confidence issues and what does Pettine do? He benched him immediately, questions his motivation and says he needs to mature. We draft a utility lineman to spot fill in for a year or two and develop, and Pettine doesn't practice him at every position.
He's just a disingenuous asshole who is in way over his head. He's so stuck to "his system" that he doesn't even care that it's losing us games. If it were the player's fault, you wouldn't have a consummate pro like Tramon Williams saying "just let the player's play, man!"
Agree with all that. I also like Farmer quite a bit.
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Because he did nothing wrong. And I'm not a fanboy, I could give a shit less who starts.
But a coaching staff that tries to coach players on what they are allowed to do on their own time, during a bye week, is no coaching staff that I would ever fucking want in this city.
The only disgrace here is how Pettine handles adult, professional football players. And I'm not the only one who feels that way.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Mr_KevinJones/status/669256341396054017
And for those that claim the front office was "in" on this decision - this is from Pettine's own mouth:
"GM and the owner are certainly 2 people I want to keep in the loop but it was simply to inform them of what we had decided"
Pettine KNOWS he's fired. So he was looking for any and all reason to bench Manziel. This was a complete non-story, ask Duke Johnson, ask Peter King - they've all voiced their opinion on this story.
Mike Pettine has absolutely no fucking say whatsoever on what a player does in their down time - he is not their employer. He doesn't sign their checks, nor does he have the ability to release them carte blanche. Pettine is nothing more than a supervisor, and a bad one at that. The only control Pettine has is whether or not to play Manziel, and he's executed that right - to the dismay of the fanbase and likely the owner as well. Regardless of what was said Manziel "promised" he would do, he's a free adult with a essentially a 14 day vacation. He volunteered, he took photos with fans at the Ohio State game, and he went to a nightclub. Hardly a fucking distraction - yet now it's blown entirely out of proportion because the only fans left of this shithole franchise are old enough to have watched Otto Graham play in person.
If you want to call this a violation of team rules - so be it. But don't act like Manziel did anything wrong, because he didn't.
I absolutely cannot wait for Mike Pettine to be fired. I think I'll relish that day more than when we beat Pittsburgh. The dude is a monumental fuckup with absolutely zero clue of how to be a professional head coach.
Man, talk about taking the words straight out of my mouth, bravo.
First, let's talk about rehab. None of you mofos including me know the real reason he went. Yes, the lowest common denominator is that he went for alcohol but to outright say that is naive and stupid. Before he went to rehab, he didn't give a shit and it showed on the field. He wanted to be Johnny playboy and got embarrassed, and I mean embarrassed, by the Bengals. This was the turning point for Pettine and Manziel, IMO. He had every right to be angry with him at that point. But he's clearly started to turn his life around. Players talk about this all the time too, AND it's shown on the field this season. The narrative wasn't "Johnny gets hammered in club, punches prostitute and steals lamp". A young man went to a night club to enjoy himself with his time off. He also took the time to volunteer in the community, but no one seems to tell that story.
What Pettine is doing is acting like a grumpy father who can't control his kid so he's putting him in timeout. You go down the line on his personnel decisions and it's a fucking nightmare from start to finish. The NFL is a grown ass man game where you put players in who perform. Yes, obviously people like Greg Hardy and Ray Rice are a different story but that's apples to oranges to what Manziel is doing. Instead, you got drunk papa Pettine picking favorites and literally shitting on the team we all love.
So when exactly did you get off the Pettine train, TCPO? Just curious because I know you were supporting him most of the season.
On this one, I respect your position but I can't agree with it. There's a quote from Nick Saban out there that I think is relevant:
"Somebody tells you to do something. Somebody sets a standard of how you're gonna do it. You understand it. It's defined. And then you show that you have the ability, and the accountability, to do it that way."
The HUGE difference is Saban coaches college KIDS (technically adults but we know what I'm saying here). the NFL are grown men who are the best in the world at what they do.
Man, talk about taking the words straight out of my mouth, bravo.
First, let's talk about rehab. None of you mofos including me know the real reason he went. Yes, the lowest common denominator is that he went for alcohol but to outright say that is naive and stupid. Before he went to rehab, he didn't give a shit and it showed on the field. He wanted to be Johnny playboy and got embarrassed, and I mean embarrassed, by the Bengals. This was the turning point for Pettine and Manziel, IMO. He had every right to be angry with him at that point. But he's clearly started to turn his life around. Players talk about this all the time too, AND it's shown on the field this season. The narrative wasn't "Johnny gets hammered in club, punches prostitute and steals lamp". A young man went to a night club to enjoy himself with his time off. He also took the time to volunteer in the community, but no one seems to tell that story.
What Pettine is doing is acting like a grumpy father who can't control his kid so he's putting him in timeout. You go down the line on his personnel decisions and it's a fucking nightmare from start to finish. The NFL is a grown ass man game where you put players in who perform. Yes, obviously people like Greg Hardy and Ray Rice are a different story but that's apples to oranges to what Manziel is doing. Instead, you got drunk papa Pettine picking favorites and literally shitting on the team we all love.
The HUGE difference is Saban coaches college KIDS (technically adults but we know what I'm saying here). the NFL are grown men who are the best in the world at what they do.
Got nothing to do with college. It's a life principle.
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That's exactly it Mark.
Let's look at the the possibilities I've come up with.
1) the "Conspiracy " scenario. Manziel did this on purpose, because he can't stand Pettine, and wants to buy his ticket out of town. In that case, mission accomplished. But why bother to go to rehab for 11 weeks? You could have just continued to be a jerk, and got booted before Training Camp.
2) the corollary to that would be he doesn't respect authority- and hasn't "grown up" yet.
3) (Most likely) he's a serious alky- and can't control himself. As my Counselor friend has on the blackboard in letters a foot high "YET"
Yo, TCPO I'm old- but not old enough to remember Otto playing. A I see it- the coaching staff was trying to protect Manziel from himself. They know why Johnny went to rehab. They (meaning Haslam) sign his paychecks. Sure as hell they can set conditions as to what he can or can't do- especially if (to them) he has a known booze problem. If you watch the initial Pettine interview- he was obviously distraught, and disappointed about the situation.
You're as good as your word- and Manziel "promised" he wouldn't be a distraction. Whoops, wrong.
If I had a million dollar a year job, and my boss told me stay out of bars- or else, you think I wouldn't get the message? Apparently Johnny either doesn't give a damn, or can't help himself.
Pettine != Haslam. Pettine has zero say on what Manziel can do, he can only choose to bench him...at the risk of losing his own job.
Pettine has already admitted to making the change without acknowledging Haslam - he only did so after the fact.
There was no "sit down and come to Jesus" at the beginning of the week. It was probably like "hey, don't fuck up this weekend." and Johnny said "okay, man. Sure. I'll relax." And that's exactly what he did. He didn't do anything out of the ordinary. He did what 75% of the league does on their bye.
Pettine is fired. He knows it. He's going out his way - with the guy he wants at QB. That's all there is to it.
And if you don't think other QB's go out during the season - you're insanely naive. I've seen Cam out on a Friday night two days before a game...and he's not the only one.
And if you don't think other QB's go out during the season - you're insanely naive. I've seen Cam out on a Friday night two days before a game...and he's not the only one.
but cam doesn't routinely fuck up. I too don't necessarily think what Manziel did was all that bad, but because of his past it was asked of him if he could "sacrifice" one off week and just chill with folks and family. If that video had been taken of him drinking and having fun in his folks backyard or something like that, no issues. It's the "out and about", can you bench Money Manziel for one weekend....and he couldn't. Pettine is right on this one as much as I hate it.
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I think Charlie Frye Brady Quinn and Colt McCoy studied really hard.
And a lot of you guys hated them.
WSS
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Funny how we don't see pictures of any other QB's out during the season do we? Not any of them. Forget the great QB's... You don't see pictures of Derek Carr or Ryan Tannehill or Blake Bortles out partying on their bye week do we? But according to you they all do it. Maybe they're all just not fucking idiots and don't pose for fucking pictures when "they're keeping a low profile."
The dude is a fucking moron and he brought this one on himself. He was told what was expected of him by his employer and he said yeah ok....and walked out the door and flipped both middle fingers at the organization who employs him. Fuck him and all the idiots supporting this assclown.
And Pettine isn't getting fired. Get used to it.
You know why we don't see pictures? Because nobody gives a fuck. It's not news. It's only news with Manziel, because WE think it's news. Because Cleveland fans are like children, they don't quite understand how the rest of the world works.
Pettine's gone. Get the fuck used to it. He'a a useless fucking chump and anyone hitching his wagon to him is stupid.
This franchise is a fucking joke.
Pettine's gone. Get the fuck used to it.
You're basing that assertion on the fact he didn't pass by Jimmey his decision to bench Manziel, which isn't really news. It's the coach's call, it's what boss Haslem hired him to do. Do you want a stoolie for a coach that calls the owner, who's not a football guy, before every major personnel decision? makes no sense bro.
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I think Charlie Frye Brady Quinn and Colt McCoy studied really hard.
And a lot of you guys hated them.
WSS
I think Charlie Frye Brady Quinn and Colt McCoy studied really hard.
And a lot of you guys hated them.
WSS
Are we supposed to accept sub-standard QBs because they work hard?
I like Colt McCoy a lot. He wasn't good enough.
Zombo
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I think Charlie Frye Brady Quinn and Colt McCoy studied really hard.
And a lot of you guys hated them.
WSS
Are we supposed to accept sub-standard QBs because they work hard?
I like Colt McCoy a lot. He wasn't good enough.
Zombo
Zombo said:
Are we supposed to accept sub-standard QBs because they work hard?
I like Colt McCoy a lot. He wasn't good enough.
Zombo
Accept or don't accept. Just don't make your decisions based on bullshit like going out on your weekend off. If he had a game against Pittsburgh like he did against Cincinnati last year, that would be a valid reason.
Its either making progress that shows on the field or it's not.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons
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