Jonathan Paul Manziel
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That's exactly it Mark.
Let's look at the the possibilities I've come up with.
1) the "Conspiracy " scenario. Manziel did this on purpose, because he can't stand Pettine, and wants to buy his ticket out of town. In that case, mission accomplished. But why bother to go to rehab for 11 weeks? You could have just continued to be a jerk, and got booted before Training Camp.
2) the corollary to that would be he doesn't respect authority- and hasn't "grown up" yet.
3) (Most likely) he's a serious alky- and can't control himself. As my Counselor friend has on the blackboard in letters a foot high "YET"
Yo, TCPO I'm old- but not old enough to remember Otto playing. A I see it- the coaching staff was trying to protect Manziel from himself. They know why Johnny went to rehab. They (meaning Haslam) sign his paychecks. Sure as hell they can set conditions as to what he can or can't do- especially if (to them) he has a known booze problem. If you watch the initial Pettine interview- he was obviously distraught, and disappointed about the situation.
You're as good as your word- and Manziel "promised" he wouldn't be a distraction. Whoops, wrong.
If I had a million dollar a year job, and my boss told me stay out of bars- or else, you think I wouldn't get the message? Apparently Johnny either doesn't give a damn, or can't help himself.
Pettine != Haslam. Pettine has zero say on what Manziel can do, he can only choose to bench him...at the risk of losing his own job.
Pettine has already admitted to making the change without acknowledging Haslam - he only did so after the fact.
There was no "sit down and come to Jesus" at the beginning of the week. It was probably like "hey, don't fuck up this weekend." and Johnny said "okay, man. Sure. I'll relax." And that's exactly what he did. He didn't do anything out of the ordinary. He did what 75% of the league does on their bye.
Pettine is fired. He knows it. He's going out his way - with the guy he wants at QB. That's all there is to it.
And if you don't think other QB's go out during the season - you're insanely naive. I've seen Cam out on a Friday night two days before a game...and he's not the only one.
And if you don't think other QB's go out during the season - you're insanely naive. I've seen Cam out on a Friday night two days before a game...and he's not the only one.
but cam doesn't routinely fuck up. I too don't necessarily think what Manziel did was all that bad, but because of his past it was asked of him if he could "sacrifice" one off week and just chill with folks and family. If that video had been taken of him drinking and having fun in his folks backyard or something like that, no issues. It's the "out and about", can you bench Money Manziel for one weekend....and he couldn't. Pettine is right on this one as much as I hate it.
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I think Charlie Frye Brady Quinn and Colt McCoy studied really hard.
And a lot of you guys hated them.
WSS
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Funny how we don't see pictures of any other QB's out during the season do we? Not any of them. Forget the great QB's... You don't see pictures of Derek Carr or Ryan Tannehill or Blake Bortles out partying on their bye week do we? But according to you they all do it. Maybe they're all just not fucking idiots and don't pose for fucking pictures when "they're keeping a low profile."
The dude is a fucking moron and he brought this one on himself. He was told what was expected of him by his employer and he said yeah ok....and walked out the door and flipped both middle fingers at the organization who employs him. Fuck him and all the idiots supporting this assclown.
And Pettine isn't getting fired. Get used to it.
You know why we don't see pictures? Because nobody gives a fuck. It's not news. It's only news with Manziel, because WE think it's news. Because Cleveland fans are like children, they don't quite understand how the rest of the world works.
Pettine's gone. Get the fuck used to it. He'a a useless fucking chump and anyone hitching his wagon to him is stupid.
This franchise is a fucking joke.
Pettine's gone. Get the fuck used to it.
You're basing that assertion on the fact he didn't pass by Jimmey his decision to bench Manziel, which isn't really news. It's the coach's call, it's what boss Haslem hired him to do. Do you want a stoolie for a coach that calls the owner, who's not a football guy, before every major personnel decision? makes no sense bro.
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I think Charlie Frye Brady Quinn and Colt McCoy studied really hard.
And a lot of you guys hated them.
WSS
I think Charlie Frye Brady Quinn and Colt McCoy studied really hard.
And a lot of you guys hated them.
WSS
Are we supposed to accept sub-standard QBs because they work hard?
I like Colt McCoy a lot. He wasn't good enough.
Zombo
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I think Charlie Frye Brady Quinn and Colt McCoy studied really hard.
And a lot of you guys hated them.
WSS
Are we supposed to accept sub-standard QBs because they work hard?
I like Colt McCoy a lot. He wasn't good enough.
Zombo
Zombo said:
Are we supposed to accept sub-standard QBs because they work hard?
I like Colt McCoy a lot. He wasn't good enough.
Zombo
Accept or don't accept. Just don't make your decisions based on bullshit like going out on your weekend off. If he had a game against Pittsburgh like he did against Cincinnati last year, that would be a valid reason.
Its either making progress that shows on the field or it's not.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
Pettine just bought himself another year by actually holding players accountable for their actions. Good to see a coach that is actually trying to change this dismal culture in Cleveland.
Cleveland has always tried their hardest to avoid character guys: crabtree, dez, honey badger, and burfict to name a few.
And then they always end up with them anyways" winslow, Edwards, JM, Groves, stallworth
"We are Americans. We don't quit doing something because it's wrong. We just keep doing the wrong thing till it turns out right." Browns maybe the most American Football team ever. -
Zombo said:
Are we supposed to accept sub-standard QBs because they work hard?
I like Colt McCoy a lot. He wasn't good enough.
Zombo
Accept or don't accept. Just don't make your decisions based on bullshit like going out on your weekend off. If he had a game against Pittsburgh like he did against Cincinnati last year, that would be a valid reason.
Its either making progress that shows on the field or it's not.
WSS
Accept or don't accept. Just don't make your decisions based on bullshit like going out on your weekend off. If he had a game against Pittsburgh like he did against Cincinnati last year, that would be a valid reason.
Its either making progress that shows on the field or it's not.
WSS
If he didn't have a history of flushing a season due to being on booze/drugs/whatever then no one would have given a shit about what he did in the bye. Hell the coaches wouldn't have given a fuck. But he has a history of making bad decisions so the coaches told him not to do it.
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Watching First Take on ESPN. Skip Bayliss just insinuated that "maybe" Johnny is doing this ON PURPOSE so Cleveland will cut him, and he can get out of here and go somewhere else. Skip thinks Jerry Jones still wants him.
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I think Pettine has mishandled Manziel since day 1. WWBBD?-What would Bill Belichek do? He would NEVER have talked about anything "off the field" with Manziel from day 1. He would have never even uttered the words "off the field," and certainly would have never admitted that Manziel may have a weakness...
Right now, Belichek would say something like:
"It's my job to play the guys who give us the best chance to win. As long as you do your job, you play."
Maybe the Owner and GM have been unfair to Pettine from day 1 by trotting him out to handle all the questions about Manziel all this time, but he sure as hell hasn't handled them well. Trying to be too much of a "dad" and not just a football coach... He should leave it up to the owner, GM, and player development coordinator to manage whether or not Manziel is "eligible" to play... based on his off-field stuff. If you're the HC, you have to play him b/c he has looked good, and he might be the QB of the future for your team. To shove him down to 3rd string... not a good "coaching move," BUT a good "Non-enabling" move... unfortunately that is NOT Pettine's job...
Having said all that...
I think there is more to the story than we have heard, and most of us are abreacting b/c we are missing the critical piece of information that probably explains what's happening. I find it hard to believe Haslam would let Manziel sit on a Monday Night Football game without having some ammo to tell his fellow owners when they start complaining about ruining the ratings for that unwatchable game...
#Justsayin' -
I think Pettine has mishandled Manziel since day 1. WWBBD?-What would Bill Belichek do? He would NEVER have talked about anything "off the field" with Manziel from day 1. He would have never even uttered the words "off the field," and certainly would have never admitted that Manziel may have a weakness...
Right now, Belichek would say something like:
"It's my job to play the guys who give us the best chance to win. As long as you do your job, you play."
Maybe the Owner and GM have been unfair to Pettine from day 1 by trotting him out to handle all the questions about Manziel all this time, but he sure as hell hasn't handled them well. Trying to be too much of a "dad" and not just a football coach... He should leave it up to the owner, GM, and player development coordinator to manage whether or not Manziel is "eligible" to play... based on his off-field stuff. If you're the HC, you have to play him b/c he has looked good, and he might be the QB of the future for your team. To shove him down to 3rd string... not a good "coaching move," BUT a good "Non-enabling" move... unfortunately that is NOT Pettine's job...
Having said all that...
I think there is more to the story than we have heard, and most of us are abreacting b/c we are missing the critical piece of information that probably explains what's happening. I find it hard to believe Haslam would let Manziel sit on a Monday Night Football game without having some ammo to tell his fellow owners when they start complaining about ruining the ratings for that unwatchable game...
I think Pettine has mishandled Manziel since day 1. WWBBD?-What would Bill Belichek do? He would NEVER have talked about anything "off the field" with Manziel from day 1. He would have never even uttered the words "off the field," and certainly would have never admitted that Manziel may have a weakness...
Fair enough....but I would also counter with BB doesn't have these kinds of players on his roster. Which running back was it just a year or two ago that ran for like 150 and a couple TDs and then over slept and missed a meeting during the week and he was inactive the next week and cut the following week. There's no bullshit in the patriots organization. He doesn't have to talk about off the field stuff because they don't have any of it.
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Pettine just bought himself another year by actually holding players accountable for their actions. Good to see a coach that is actually trying to change this dismal culture in Cleveland.
Cleveland has always tried their hardest to avoid character guys: crabtree, dez, honey badger, and burfict to name a few.
And then they always end up with them anyways" winslow, Edwards, JM, Groves, stallworth
Pettine just bought himself another year by actually holding players accountable for their actions. Good to see a coach that is actually trying to change this dismal culture in Cleveland.
Cleveland has always tried their hardest to avoid character guys: crabtree, dez, honey badger, and burfict to name a few.
And then they always end up with them anyways" winslow, Edwards, JM, Groves, stallworth
Great. Maybe someday he will start holding them accountable for playing like shit.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
I think Pettine has mishandled Manziel since day 1. WWBBD?-What would Bill Belichek do? He would NEVER have talked about anything "off the field" with Manziel from day 1. He would have never even uttered the words "off the field," and certainly would have never admitted that Manziel may have a weakness...
Fair enough....but I would also counter with BB doesn't have these kinds of players on his roster. Which running back was it just a year or two ago that ran for like 150 and a couple TDs and then over slept and missed a meeting during the week and he was inactive the next week and cut the following week. There's no bullshit in the patriots organization. He doesn't have to talk about off the field stuff because they don't have any of it.
Fair enough....but I would also counter with BB doesn't have these kinds of players on his roster. Which running back was it just a year or two ago that ran for like 150 and a couple TDs and then over slept and missed a meeting during the week and he was inactive the next week and cut the following week. There's no bullshit in the patriots organization. He doesn't have to talk about off the field stuff because they don't have any of it.
So the pictures of Rob Gronkowski partying all the time don't count? Or the fact he had someone who was well known to have serious anger problems and eventually killed someone? Give me a break. Jonas Grey, the guy you are talking about, broke a patent team rule that applied to situation of game planning. There's no team rule that says you can't have fun on your free time. If there actually is then this is the worst run organization in the history of sports.
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Pettine just bought himself another year by actually holding players accountable for their actions. Good to see a coach that is actually trying to change this dismal culture in Cleveland.
Cleveland has always tried their hardest to avoid character guys: crabtree, dez, honey badger, and burfict to name a few.
And then they always end up with them anyways" winslow, Edwards, JM, Groves, stallworth
Great. Maybe someday he will start holding them accountable for playing like shit.
WSS
Great. Maybe someday he will start holding them accountable for playing like shit.
WSS
Hello?.......I think they are....
I know Krugers snaps have been cut in half....Gilbert hasnt even sniffed the field.....Bowe doesnt play......Housler just got cut.....Turbin lasted all of 2 fumbles worth..
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Fair enough....but I would also counter with BB doesn't have these kinds of players on his roster. Which running back was it just a year or two ago that ran for like 150 and a couple TDs and then over slept and missed a meeting during the week and he was inactive the next week and cut the following week. There's no bullshit in the patriots organization. He doesn't have to talk about off the field stuff because they don't have any of it.
So the pictures of Rob Gronkowski partying all the time don't count? Or the fact he had someone who was well known to have serious anger problems and eventually killed someone? Give me a break. Jonas Grey, the guy you are talking about, broke a patent team rule that applied to situation of game planning. There's no team rule that says you can't have fun on your free time. If there actually is then this is the worst run organization in the history of sports.
So the pictures of Rob Gronkowski partying all the time don't count?
Was Gronk in rehab?
Two things that will define you: Your determination when you have nothing. Your attitude when you have everything. - Mike McCartney -
Great. Maybe someday he will start holding them accountable for playing like shit.
WSS
Hello?.......I think they are....
I know Krugers snaps have been cut in half....Gilbert hasnt even sniffed the field.....Bowe doesnt play......Housler just got cut.....Turbin lasted all of 2 fumbles worth..
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Mark, the reason we don't see it all over the news is that TMZ doesn't give a shit and doesn't pay people for footage of any other football players. Johnny is a cottage industry. So he goes out and drink some champagne and sings karaoke and you guys shit your fucking pants.Funny how we don't see pictures of any other QB's out during the season do we? Not any of them. Forget the great QB's... You don't see pictures of Derek Carr or Ryan Tannehill or Blake Bortles out partying on their bye week do we? But according to you they all do it. Maybe they're all just not fucking idiots and don't pose for fucking pictures when "they're keeping a low profile."
The dude is a fucking moron and he brought this one on himself. He was told what was expected of him by his employer and he said yeah ok....and walked out the door and flipped both middle fingers at the organization who employs him. Fuck him and all the idiots supporting this assclown.
And Pettine isn't getting fired. Get used to it.
I would bet dollars to dog turds that if there were a $300 bounty for pictures of any of our defensive players at a nightclub over that weekend... You think all of these underperforming hoodrats stayed home and read the Bible all
weekend?
Hey maybe Jim O'Neill took his wife to Morton's of Chicago... Instead of studying the playbook.
And let me ask you all, haters included, of the three, Johnny the coach and the GM, which one has performed at a higher level this year than last? How many games has the quarterback position lost for us? And how many the defense under the direction of a defensive coach and his handpicked coordinator? And on who's shoulders would dropped balls false starts offsides illegal formations etc etc etc fall upon?
That, Tour (from our previous conversation) is why I would question Mike Pettine and his leadership.)
I don't know what the conversation was and like I told her to if Johnny was ordered not to go out in public and still did I can imagine the coach being upset. But just going to a club? Karaoke is stupid no matter who's doing it and Johnny is a squirrelly looking little fucker but...
(on a side note I think it's hilarious the fans that want to bring drunk ass Bernie Kosar back to straighten up this mess)
But I will repeat as I said in the thread that got the kibosh you bet a guy for non performance on the field right? Unless giving the team the best chance to win is not your goal.
WSS
That, Tour (from our previous conversation) is why I would question Mike Pettine and his leadership.)
Thanks for something to quote in the new thread. I asked in the old one so I could get a sense of your definition of leadership... and I got it... or should I say "them". Best I could tell for JM it was "effort + results" and for Pet it was "W/L".
I remember a time when Pet still had that new coach smell. He was touting this principle of "competition" and "players earn their playing time". Seemed to be a pretty popular form of accountability as I recall. But somehow sticking to this principle has earned Pet a one-way ticket in many minds.
Losing can do that... I get it. I also get questions about Pet's rigid love of his system and seemingly misplaced loyalty to O'Neil. Hell... I've questioned the former. But I simply do not get the questioning of Pet's "leadership".
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Great. Maybe someday he will start holding them accountable for playing like shit.
WSS
Hello?.......I think they are....
I know Krugers snaps have been cut in half....Gilbert hasnt even sniffed the field.....Bowe doesnt play......Housler just got cut.....Turbin lasted all of 2 fumbles worth..
Hello? They aren't utilizing Krueger very well he's pissed off about it. Yes Bowe doesn't play neither does hustler how many snaps did Turbin take Gilbert had plenty of starts. Joe Haden sucked, got hurt and took the rest of the season off.Hello?.......I think they are....
I know Krugers snaps have been cut in half....Gilbert hasnt even sniffed the field.....Bowe doesnt play......Housler just got cut.....Turbin lasted all of 2 fumbles worth..
Johnny didn't get the boot because he sucked on the field.
WSS
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Pettine's gone. Get the fuck used to it.
You're basing that assertion on the fact he didn't pass by Jimmey his decision to bench Manziel, which isn't really news. It's the coach's call, it's what boss Haslem hired him to do. Do you want a stoolie for a coach that calls the owner, who's not a football guy, before every major personnel decision? makes no sense bro.
You're basing that assertion on the fact he didn't pass by Jimmey his decision to bench Manziel, which isn't really news. It's the coach's call, it's what boss Haslem hired him to do. Do you want a stoolie for a coach that calls the owner, who's not a football guy, before every major personnel decision? makes no sense bro.
No, I'm basing that assertion on the fact that he has .346 win percentage, AND he just benched Haslam's shiny first round pick without even running it by him first in a season that is lost.
Makes a lot of sense, bro.
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Was Gronk in rehab?
There's two camps here right, so I'll state my case one more time and let it go. While I hope Johnny the man got help he needed in rehab, I literally could not care the fuck less about how it aids in his image or the image of the Browns. The reason the Browns suck is because they have zero impact players. Seriously, our best player is a LT who while important to a franchise is a sad statement to make. I'm here to tell you that outside of patent illegal activities I could not care less about what the guys do. Manziel could go on a 6 day bender, wake up Sunday and light it up, and then go hit the club for all I care.
I'm so tired of people caring about how players actions make the Browns look. You know how the Browns look? Like the worst franchise in all professional sports except maybe the 76ers. Manziel has the ability to be the impact player but because he got his picture taken with champagne he's benched. That's so much worse than trotting out squeaky clean McCown who will put up decent numbers just to take bad sacks in the 2nd half and make a costly turnover to blow the game. I'm 26 years old almost and have been alive for two playoff seasons and 3 winning records. Let that sink in while we discuss benching a potential impact player cause it cuts me like a damn knife.
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