Jonathan Paul Manziel
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I think the real heart of the issue with this football team, is that they do not operate by one of the primary principles of success. I don't know about any of you, but where I grew up, if somebody was your fuckin' guy, you backed him right or wrong. Did Bill Bellicheater hang Brady out o dry during deflate gate? Did Brady turn on Bill and say "he told me to do it!" HELL F'in NO! Because Brady if Bill's fuckin' guy, and he may kick his ass in private, but never in public. We need a lot less pansy ass finger pointing around here and a lot more loyalty. Pettine's problem is he has no fuckin' guy; how do I know you ask? Because if Manziel was his guy he would of told reporters to stick those photos, videos, tweets and any other inflammatory media bullshit, where the sun don't shine and leave his boy alone! So clearly Manziel ain't it, and if McCown was his guy then he would have had the balls to say "Look, I don't give a rats ass what you fans want, as soon as this old fart is healthy again I am gonna play him, because he is my FUCKIN' GUY!" Pettine better hope he is someone's guy, and if he is maybe he can learn some loyalty from that fuckin' guy. Oh, and by the way if your on a team, your fuckin' guy is the person standing next to you. That's my take... I am sick of these Browns impostors ruining the legacy of a once proud team that made our hearts swell with pride. I have not forgotten, and impostors or not these are our fuckin' guys and while they are here lets defend them.
Pettine, your an ass, but your our coach and if you say your benching Johnny, right or wrong I am with you.
These are our guys, and I know I just called them impostors, but that was said in our house, this is our team and if don't respect them no one will.
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That's actually a pretty interesting, possibly good, and if nothing else original, take, Carlsbad. (One of you grammar nazis let me know how I did with the commas.)
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That's actually a pretty interesting, possibly good, and if nothing else original, take, Carlsbad. (One of you grammar nazis let me know how I did with the commas.)
That's actually a pretty interesting, possibly good, and if nothing else original, take, Carlsbad. (One of you grammar nazis let me know how I did with the commas.)
She's still asleep. But when she awakes I'll put her right on it with explanations that, after 45+ years, I still don't understand. Or is it, "...with explanations, that after 45+ years, I still don't understand." Got me.
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That's actually a pretty interesting, possibly good, and if nothing else original, take, Carlsbad. (One of you grammar nazis let me know how I did with the commas.)
That's actually a pretty interesting, possibly good, and, if nothing else, original take, Carlsbad. (One of you grammar nazis let me know how I did with the commas.)
FIFY...
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The media and fans in Cleveland are so comfortable with failure, that we not only expect it, we demand it. Example: We bitch about Pettine, being too easy on players ( easy training camp, millions of stupid penalties, laughing / joking on the side lines while we are losing big, etc. ). Then...when Pettine makes a decision, and disciplines Manziel, we want to fire his ass, he's an idiot, get him out of here. This is a scenario that has been played out here repeatedly, since 1999. I'm not saying Pettine is some great coach, but simple laws of averages would dictate success, just randomly picking players, coaches, and all other variables, at some point. The only common denominator, that hasn't been replaced is the fans. Well...that's not entirely true. It's been proven, that moving the team to a new location was effective. The team that moved to Baltimore turned things around, and won a Superbowl in a fairly short time. The only questionable point is...was it the different location, or different fans that changed the team into a winner? My solution: if you want this team to win, move it to another city. It's simply not possible to have a winning, successful NFL team in Cleveland. Blame it on us, the fans, or the location...either one...but it has to be one of them. Yes..... maybe I am drinking a little too early.
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The media and fans in Cleveland are so comfortable with failure, that we not only expect it, we demand it. Example: We bitch about Pettine, being too easy on players ( easy training camp, millions of stupid penalties, laughing / joking on the side lines while we are losing big, etc. ). Then...when Pettine makes a decision, and disciplines Manziel, we want to fire his ass, he's an idiot, get him out of here. This is a scenario that has been played out here repeatedly, since 1999. I'm not saying Pettine is some great coach, but simple laws of averages would dictate success, just randomly picking players, coaches, and all other variables, at some point. The only common denominator, that hasn't been replaced is the fans. Well...that's not entirely true. It's been proven, that moving the team to a new location was effective. The team that moved to Baltimore turned things around, and won a Superbowl in a fairly short time. The only questionable point is...was it the different location, or different fans that changed the team into a winner? My solution: if you want this team to win, move it to another city. It's simply not possible to have a winning, successful NFL team in Cleveland. Blame it on us, the fans, or the location...either one...but it has to be one of them. Yes..... maybe I am drinking a little too early.
The media and fans in Cleveland are so comfortable with failure, that we not only expect it, we demand it. Example: We bitch about Pettine, being too easy on players ( easy training camp, millions of stupid penalties, laughing / joking on the side lines while we are losing big, etc. ). Then...when Pettine makes a decision, and disciplines Manziel, we want to fire his ass, he's an idiot, get him out of here. This is a scenario that has been played out here repeatedly, since 1999. I'm not saying Pettine is some great coach, but simple laws of averages would dictate success, just randomly picking players, coaches, and all other variables, at some point. The only common denominator, that hasn't been replaced is the fans. Well...that's not entirely true. It's been proven, that moving the team to a new location was effective. The team that moved to Baltimore turned things around, and won a Superbowl in a fairly short time. The only questionable point is...was it the different location, or different fans that changed the team into a winner? My solution: if you want this team to win, move it to another city. It's simply not possible to have a winning, successful NFL team in Cleveland. Blame it on us, the fans, or the location...either one...but it has to be one of them. Yes..... maybe I am drinking a little too early.
It's mostly not the same people complaining about lack of discipline/too much discipline. People disagree on the best way to treat these players - big shock.
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I'll make this brief as the issue is so black and white its not even funny. Johnny is named the starter but with certain conditions.
The difference between what you are prepared to tolerate from a 2nd string apprentice and the QB you hand the keys to the franchise to are great.
It's not a fucking personal agenda for some people. Some of us actually just want to see us win and understand that there are bigger things than "oh this guy lied to me this week, boo the fuck hoo."
Manziel's trade value has never been lower, we still have no idea what he could become, he showed just enough against Pittsburgh for us to still have faith in him...
... and he just showed us over the weekend that that faith is not well placed.
There's is nothing, abso-fucking-lutely nothing more foundationally imperative to a relationship than trust.
And yes, he is still totally responsible for the outcome. This one is on him, not Pettine or anyone else. Pettine is doing exactly what he should. It's called tough love. You reluctantly and sadly follow through with exactly what you said you would do if he could not control his off the field behavior. Have a seat JM and get professional help again. It didn't take.
Good stuff, Ag. I know this is killing you...
Good stuff, Ag. I know this is killing you...
I had two choices on how to handle this Tour
1. Pull out my bottle of Deaver Vineyard Syrah Port or
2. Just enjoy the good news of the day-- http://www.12thman.com/news/2015/11/25/MBB_1125150338.aspx
I made the wiser choice of #2 because I have friends, not enablers. LOL
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I think the real heart of the issue with this football team, is that they do not operate by one of the primary principles of success. I don't know about any of you, but where I grew up, if somebody was your fuckin' guy, you backed him right or wrong. Did Bill Bellicheater hang Brady out o dry during deflate gate? Did Brady turn on Bill and say "he told me to do it!" HELL F'in NO! Because Brady if Bill's fuckin' guy, and he may kick his ass in private, but never in public. We need a lot less pansy ass finger pointing around here and a lot more loyalty. Pettine's problem is he has no fuckin' guy; how do I know you ask? Because if Manziel was his guy he would of told reporters to stick those photos, videos, tweets and any other inflammatory media bullshit, where the sun don't shine and leave his boy alone! So clearly Manziel ain't it, and if McCown was his guy then he would have had the balls to say "Look, I don't give a rats ass what you fans want, as soon as this old fart is healthy again I am gonna play him, because he is my FUCKIN' GUY!" Pettine better hope he is someone's guy, and if he is maybe he can learn some loyalty from that fuckin' guy. Oh, and by the way if your on a team, your fuckin' guy is the person standing next to you. That's my take... I am sick of these Browns impostors ruining the legacy of a once proud team that made our hearts swell with pride. I have not forgotten, and impostors or not these are our fuckin' guys and while they are here lets defend them.
Pettine, your an ass, but your our coach and if you say your benching Johnny, right or wrong I am with you.
These are our guys, and I know I just called them impostors, but that was said in our house, this is our team and if don't respect them no one will.
I think the real heart of the issue with this football team, is that they do not operate by one of the primary principles of success. I don't know about any of you, but where I grew up, if somebody was your fuckin' guy, you backed him right or wrong. Did Bill Bellicheater hang Brady out o dry during deflate gate? Did Brady turn on Bill and say "he told me to do it!" HELL F'in NO! Because Brady if Bill's fuckin' guy, and he may kick his ass in private, but never in public. We need a lot less pansy ass finger pointing around here and a lot more loyalty. Pettine's problem is he has no fuckin' guy; how do I know you ask? Because if Manziel was his guy he would of told reporters to stick those photos, videos, tweets and any other inflammatory media bullshit, where the sun don't shine and leave his boy alone! So clearly Manziel ain't it, and if McCown was his guy then he would have had the balls to say "Look, I don't give a rats ass what you fans want, as soon as this old fart is healthy again I am gonna play him, because he is my FUCKIN' GUY!" Pettine better hope he is someone's guy, and if he is maybe he can learn some loyalty from that fuckin' guy. Oh, and by the way if your on a team, your fuckin' guy is the person standing next to you. That's my take... I am sick of these Browns impostors ruining the legacy of a once proud team that made our hearts swell with pride. I have not forgotten, and impostors or not these are our fuckin' guys and while they are here lets defend them.
Pettine, your an ass, but your our coach and if you say your benching Johnny, right or wrong I am with you.
These are our guys, and I know I just called them impostors, but that was said in our house, this is our team and if don't respect them no one will.
Really good post!
While the masses warned the 21 year old redshirt JR QB had a little too much Johnny Blutarsky frat boy in him - I thought the millisecond the guy got the starting job he would embrace what he once said was a life-long dream. Unfortunately this dumb blowhard wasn't smart enough realize the second I saw the money symbol - we were dealing with a brat that's been more trained to be entitled at every level. You can get away with sheer talent alone all the way up until you get drafted into the NFL where defensive complexities have rendered countless bionic armed QBs deaf, dumb and blind as well as the out of pocket passers like Vince Young, RG3, Michael Vick, etc. Add alcoholic tendencies to this and it's like giving a box of matches to a pyromaniac and expecting integrity (an ability to do the right thing when nobody is looking).
What gets lost in all this, was we had 2 first round draft choices where they could have investigated character and work ethic better. What's impressive about about seeing Mike Pettine ground 2 different first round picks we so desperately needed at the expense of having 2 other first round picks we could be celebrating today? Like others are mentioning, we're watching Bademosi forfeit coverage like a flying friendly skies airline advertises while a guy Pettine had a big say in drafting remains punished/grounded. Who is this regime to come in here and flush important picks down the toilet like that? It makes ZERO sense to draft a QB there allegedly wasn't close to a consensus. I'd rather have our Head Coach sport the biggest gonads in the room when it was time to prevent bringing a player here he was certain would unfold this way rather than hearing his passive aggressive today. While Manziel fooled me in terms of the lifelong dream and maturing once he would realize what is at stake, I'm not impressed with Pettine and those that didn't draft us a better first round player/QB.
Speaking of sobriety, I'm all for defensive schemes that look far more coherent than those that have solidified our 32nd ranking on defense. That requires an honest self evaluation too. While O'Neil is getting most of the credit for the flaws in design and execution, Pettine escapes credit for this being HIS defense (being puppeted through a 1st time DC). Criteria? O'Neil went to the right high school so he was trained to say "yes sir" to the Pettine family. Super! This wasn't like an experienced Wade Phillips coming to us with his own defense. It was basically Rex Ryan's Defense with a couple Pettine wrinkles. Buffalo has more front 7 talent than we have and they still have a tendency to get gashed off tackle. In fact, if Buffalo is where Pettine came to us from - it's now their 3rd year in this scheme that's supposed to be our future. His defense in Buffalo was the only one that couldn't get Weeden to self destruct in the only win he'd participate in. I hate firing Coaching staffs every other year too especially when I mistrust the hiring criteria up at the top. That said, when I'm looking at a defense that competes like our 1999 defense - I can't find any reasons I want to see this scheme here again. Nobody is playing faster than they did in 2014, which means it is not only working but it also means nobody buys into it because of how little it works. None of this excuses bad tackling; but when guys aren't often in good position to square up for a good text book tackle - arm tackling and grabbing get pretty symptomatic. The other part of that is working on weaknesses our opponents see on film or simply starting/playing better tacklers than those that can't. That might be the only reason Bademosi is getting way more trust than his cover skills deserve. Maybe we should have re-signed Skrine if not for continuity but more for an ability to tackle (even tackled well when he had a separated shoulder).
Our offensive line as a run-blocking group has continued to regress since we got off to a 7-4 start in 2014. At one point around 8-9 weeks into things last year, Crow had a 5.4 yards per carry average while West seemed to be increasing his up to about 4.4 yards per carry when we reached 7-4. Then we closed with 5 consecutive losses before starting 2015 only winning 2 of our first 10 games with our running game recently ranked 31st. The pass protection has been good considering; but putting a 36 year old QB in too many 3rd and long situations means he's going to be asked to take a pounding during and after the throws.
Maybe it's time Mike Pettine JR stops sending game tapes home to SR in PA - because we look like a high school team playing against pro teams. How about our Head Coach evaluating that? There's a reason Travis Benjamin made the comment he made about staying if the right staff is here. It's prolly not going to be printed in the papers anytime soon; but it's clear he's not the only guy that thinks the plans for the future in Cleveland have to get sober real quick. Selling tickets to home games at preseason prices as early as week 10 says all it that it has to.
In the end, Manziel has nobody to blame but himself for where he parked his NFL career. The idea to start him again for better trade value holds no weight because it will entice some guys to go through the motions between cashing paychecks, which is already a challenge considering the way the players look like they stopped buying into the schemes. Are Haden and Whitner really seriously injured or is there more to the story we'll learn about once the regular season is over?
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By the way my definition of an alcohol problem is that if alcohol is causing you a problem, then you have an alcohol problem. Using that well known definition to AA members, if you lose your starting job as an NFL QB to a video of yourself gone viral with a bottle in your hand, then you have an alcohol problem because it just caused you to lose your dream in less than a minute. Find a sponsor and lose all those enablers including the "friends" in Austin and the drunk girlfriend. That is just the first step. Not one of them has your best interest at heart JM. Not one!
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You keep coming up with great points Flugel. I'm starting to have my doubts about Pettine, but still hoping he comes good. The recent Manziel incident has made me wonder whether our coaches are looking after the players (especially the young ones) outside the building. Young, lots of money, plenty of attention= lots of potential trouble.
We also have to remember that our coaches are new at this too, and that's all of them. Who appointed all our coaches with no previous coaching experience? That was a bad call.
Loyaultie me Lie. If I hadn't seen such riches I could live with being poor! -
@BenVolin: Jay Glazer says on Fox that Manziel was demoted to No. 3 QB not just bc of that video but bc he lied to #Browns and said it was an old video
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Brian Hartline said there is more to it than any of us - fans or media - know:
"No one said [Pettine] couldn't do that. That's the thing you don't understand, you're talking about things that are in the locker room that you don't know all the facts to and you're making a lot of assumptions. How we handle our business and go about things is on us and we stand behind the coach."
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The more that comes out the more I have to agree with the decision. Johnny Football needs to be micro managed from now on or he will fail himself and throw his career away.
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Okay, If Johnny lied to his coach and staff about the video being old, then this makes a lot of sense.
I bet that if that's really the true reason for his benching, I completely understand and agree with it.
You can't lie to your bosses, and bullshit around questions. That kills their trust in you, plus you're not being accountable for your actions.
I don't know if you can teach somebody to be accountable for there actions or do what they say they're going to do.
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Matt Hasselbeck upon being named starter, rearranged his already planned bye week vacation and got together with Coby Fleener to play catch.
Johnny Boy flew home, partied with his boyz, and when asked about it by his bosses, he lied to their faces.
One is a boy, the other is a man. Men lead NFL teams, not spoiled boys. You can't teach someone honor and accountability.... You either have it or you don't.
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Matt Hasselbeck upon being named starter, rearranged his already planned bye week vacation and got together with Coby Fleener to play catch.
Johnny Boy flew home, partied with his boyz, and when asked about it by his bosses, he lied to their faces.
One is a boy, the other is a man. Men lead NFL teams, not spoiled boys. You can't teach someone honor and accountability.... You either have it or you don't.
Matt Hasselbeck upon being named starter, rearranged his already planned bye week vacation and got together with Coby Fleener to play catch.
Johnny Boy flew home, partied with his boyz, and when asked about it by his bosses, he lied to their faces.
One is a boy, the other is a man. Men lead NFL teams, not spoiled boys. You can't teach someone honor and accountability.... You either have it or you don't.
Good points. This definitely isn't the same "when Johnny comes marching home again hurrah" song many of us grew up listening to.
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You keep coming up with great points Flugel. I'm starting to have my doubts about Pettine, but still hoping he comes good. The recent Manziel incident has made me wonder whether our coaches are looking after the players (especially the young ones) outside the building. Young, lots of money, plenty of attention= lots of potential trouble.
We also have to remember that our coaches are new at this too, and that's all of them. Who appointed all our coaches with no previous coaching experience? That was a bad call.
You keep coming up with great points Flugel. I'm starting to have my doubts about Pettine, but still hoping he comes good. The recent Manziel incident has made me wonder whether our coaches are looking after the players (especially the young ones) outside the building. Young, lots of money, plenty of attention= lots of potential trouble.
We also have to remember that our coaches are new at this too, and that's all of them. Who appointed all our coaches with no previous coaching experience? That was a bad call.
Thanks DD! With so many talented players on our door step in that first round, I just wished they went after somebody they ALL felt good about on and off the field.
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Matt Hasselbeck upon being named starter, rearranged his already planned bye week vacation and got together with Coby Fleener to play catch.
Johnny Boy flew home, partied with his boyz, and when asked about it by his bosses, he lied to their faces.
One is a boy, the other is a man. Men lead NFL teams, not spoiled boys. You can't teach someone honor and accountability.... You either have it or you don't.
Oh no you didn't!!!Matt Hasselbeck upon being named starter, rearranged his already planned bye week vacation and got together with Coby Fleener to play catch.
Johnny Boy flew home, partied with his boyz, and when asked about it by his bosses, he lied to their faces.
One is a boy, the other is a man. Men lead NFL teams, not spoiled boys. You can't teach someone honor and accountability.... You either have it or you don't.
JFF is the savior of the Browns!!
Dudes been a party animal all his life. Only the front office of this organization fell for the "lets wreck the league" phone calls.
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Oh no you didn't!!!Matt Hasselbeck upon being named starter, rearranged his already planned bye week vacation and got together with Coby Fleener to play catch.
Johnny Boy flew home, partied with his boyz, and when asked about it by his bosses, he lied to their faces.
One is a boy, the other is a man. Men lead NFL teams, not spoiled boys. You can't teach someone honor and accountability.... You either have it or you don't.
JFF is the savior of the Browns!!
Dudes been a party animal all his life. Only the front office of this organization fell for the "lets wreck the league" phone calls.
Oh no you didn't!!!
JFF is the savior of the Browns!!
Dudes been a party animal all his life. Only the front office of this organization fell for the "lets wreck the league" phone calls.
I think he said "lets wreck this team" but there was static and he thought he said league.
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Look who's at this party. . .
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