Jonathan Paul Manziel
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Okay, If Johnny lied to his coach and staff about the video being old, then this makes a lot of sense.
I bet that if that's really the true reason for his benching, I completely understand and agree with it.
You can't lie to your bosses, and bullshit around questions. That kills their trust in you, plus you're not being accountable for your actions.
I don't know if you can teach somebody to be accountable for there actions or do what they say they're going to do.
Okay, If Johnny lied to his coach and staff about the video being old, then this makes a lot of sense.
Lied to the coaches, then told his friends to lie for him according to these reports.
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Matt Hasselbeck upon being named starter, rearranged his already planned bye week vacation and got together with Coby Fleener to play catch.
Johnny Boy flew home, partied with his boyz, and when asked about it by his bosses, he lied to their faces.
One is a boy, the other is a man. Men lead NFL teams, not spoiled boys. You can't teach someone honor and accountability.... You either have it or you don't.
Matt Hasselbeck upon being named starter, rearranged his already planned bye week vacation and got together with Coby Fleener to play catch.
Johnny Boy flew home, partied with his boyz, and when asked about it by his bosses, he lied to their faces.
One is a boy, the other is a man. Men lead NFL teams, not spoiled boys. You can't teach someone honor and accountability.... You either have it or you don't.
This^
Zombo
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Matt Hasselbeck upon being named starter, rearranged his already planned bye week vacation and got together with Coby Fleener to play catch.
Johnny Boy flew home, partied with his boyz, and when asked about it by his bosses, he lied to their faces.
One is a boy, the other is a man. Men lead NFL teams, not spoiled boys. You can't teach someone honor and accountability.... You either have it or you don't.
Exactly what DBone said here. Hasselbeck is so much like McCown - they are still around
because they LOVE the game. Johnny Boy just doesn't get it.
Matt Hasselbeck upon being named starter, rearranged his already planned bye week vacation and got together with Coby Fleener to play catch.
Johnny Boy flew home, partied with his boyz, and when asked about it by his bosses, he lied to their faces.
One is a boy, the other is a man. Men lead NFL teams, not spoiled boys. You can't teach someone honor and accountability.... You either have it or you don't.
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Just to inject a little humor, how funny would it be if McCown and Davis got hurt somehow and Manziel had to come in? That would be such a Cleveland Browns event to occur.
If they deactivate him for MNF, Hartline is the qb in that scenario.
hey stupid, He admits he is an alcoholic. Hey stupid, he was in rehab that you the taxpayer paid for. Hey dumbo, when you get out of rehab, not only are you not supposed to drink anymore, you are not supposed to hang out with people that do drink, go to bars that you once attended while still drinking and you are supposed to get a sponsor..I'll bet he has no sponsor and hangs with folks that party and goes to the same bars and nightclubs prior to his rehab.
Other than the taxpayer thing, Largely correct. Alcoholics have a big problem admitting to being one, and Johnny has never done so publicly. It takes many, many years for anyone who's in AA to safely hang out at a party where alcohol is being used- some avoid those situations like the plague, because they know they can't control themselves in that situation. BTW, NFL players probably have the best and most comprehensive health insurance in the country.
One of the things that I heard most from many former clients who were also substance abusers is that the entire thing was just totally baffling to them They could never understand that promises they made were absolutely sincere when they made them, but were broken by them at almost the first opportunity no matter what the personal cost or the loss of trust in them by persons they so wanted to have trust in them. It's a baffling, self destructive disease which the abuser himself cannot understand other than that it continues to destroy what they want the most despite all desire to the contrary. JM is in this trap. It has nothing to do whatsoever with whether he wants to be a Brown or a good NFL QB. It has to do with something that right now he has no control of nor understanding of why it is happening. It would be easy to just call him stupid. But that isn't it at all. He is in fine company with many highly intelligent and highly talented people who have traveled this exact same path.
And yes, he is still totally responsible for the outcome. This one is on him, not Pettine or anyone else. Pettine is doing exactly what he should. It's called tough love. You reluctantly and sadly follow through with exactly what you said you would do if he could not control his off the field behavior. Have a seat JM and get professional help again. It didn't take.
By the way my definition of an alcohol problem is that if alcohol is causing you a problem, then you have an alcohol problem. Using that well known definition to AA members, if you lose your starting job as an NFL QB to a video of yourself gone viral with a bottle in your hand, then you have an alcohol problem because it just caused you to lose your dream in less than a minute. Find a sponsor and lose all those enablers including the "friends" in Austin and the drunk girlfriend. That is just the first step. Not one of them has your best interest at heart JM. Not one!
@BenVolin: Jay Glazer says on Fox that Manziel was demoted to No. 3 QB not just bc of that video but bc he lied to #Browns and said it was an old video
I can't add much to what AG said- he's preaching the Gospel truth. But that he lied is telling. I'm sure AG will ditto that's routine with guys who have a serious drinking problem and want to cover it up. And this is serious, guys. PG- anyone that still wants to say he went to rehab for anything but booze has their head in the sand. His heavy drinking since high school is well documented. It took him around 2 months out of rehab to fall back into the same bad habits. The rumors he was spotted in Cleveland bars on numerous occasions. The the admission he had been drinking with drunk GF. EDIT: Recent report he was spotted in a Columbus Nightclub until really late after the OSU- MSU game. The the latest in Texas. Reports it wasn't just "a few" over two days. I haven't seen the video, but the one picture I saw of him- he looks pretty shit faced. If he's thinking "I can control my drinking"- you're already out of control.
A guy on another board made an excellent comment. 50 years ago quarterbacks like Namath, Stabler and Meredith could get away with partying their asses off, and still compete. The league has changed, and those days are long gone.
That the Browns have been willing to work with him given the circumstances is pretty amazing. Fer sure, either Johnny gets his act together, or he's going to be out of football in a year or two. Chris Carter said way back the Browns should have cut him- for a real serious wake up call.
I can't add much to what AG said- he's preaching the Gospel truth. But that he lied is telling. I'm sure AG will ditto that's routine with guys who have a serious drinking problem and want to cover it up. And this is serious, guys.
The first casualty of an substance problem is your word. It's lost quite quickly and usually well before that person is aware it's even at risk. And to paraphrase Pettine, much easier to lose than to gain back. It's a hellofa problem to carry in life. The devil incarnate because the first person you lie to is yourself. I feel sorry for those who truly love him for himself, because right now they feel absolutely helpless to do anything to stop this crash and burn.
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Just my opinion... there are plenty of success stories out there, about
those who have dealt with alcoholism, and broken away from it, and
saved themselves and had a great life afterwards...
Some who fail to break with alcholism (as well as other drugs), surely don't need anyone enabling them to fail again.
But it seems that football is an enabler to JM, he can hit bottom, but then
bounce right back up again because he's "famous", and a qb in the limelight.
It apparently worked well in college. But the pro game is a big step up.
Now, he has pogo sticked while with the Browns, even after rehab. It won't be the first time, surely,
that it takes at least two rehab visits..... whatever the reason for his rehab... he has failed again.
He may need some tough love from the NFL game to save himself once and for all.
But the Browns players deserve much, much better than all this. So do us fans.
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One thing that may come up is whether or not he is in the NFL substance abuse program......and I think there is a very good chance that he is.....
Reading the policy, he meets ALL the criteria for the program. With his college issues and very visible drinking habits, then a public admission followed by rehab.....he "should" be at minimum, stage one in the program.....My guess is he could be stage 2.....we will soon find out....
One of the interesting aspects to the new policy is that you can avoid your first suspension by obtaining "treatment"(ala rehab) for your problem. But continued use of that or ANY substance(including alcohol, ask Josh) will get you fined and or suspended.....
So, I would not be surprised to hear he has an upcoming suspension...4 games?....10 games?.....
And I could be 100% wrong......but if you read the policy....its all there in black and white....
And, before anyone says "we would know"... the fine for leaking any info is $500,000
One thing that may come up is whether or not he is in the NFL substance abuse program......and I think there is a very good chance that he is.....
Reading the policy, he meets ALL the criteria for the program.
Interesting speculation...
I thought Josh was under an alcohol prohibition due to a DWI that occurred apart from his "substance" transgressions.
You're probably right on Josh.....forgot bout that DUI.....
Here is my theory on why Johnny could be in the program.....and there are actually 2 different ways he could get there.....
1) The obvious way to get in the program is to fail a test. BUT you can get in a number of other ways too....and those ways include things you did in college(as Josh knows all too well)......such as....
- Being arrested while intoxicated and/or receiving treatment for any kind of substance abuse(which Johnny DID both in college)(and AGAIN this past spring).....so, this alone should be enough....
- Just Conduct that suggests you have a problem with substance abuse is enough....of which there are many instances...getting thrown out of the Manning camp, drunk swan, money phone, etc etc etce....(though I doubt these things are enough on their own).....
Now, these instances "could" have got him in the program....BUT, since he was not held accountable following the roadside incident, Im going to guess this isnt it......though, in reading, just the admission that he drank isnt enough. So they would have had to fly to Cleveland and test him(just like they did with Josh, after that flight) and we dont know if that happened.....(if it did, then we will hear soon enough....these things take time though)
2) The second way he would be in the program(and MY guess) is following the rolled up bill event. YEP....Im guessing THAT picture triggered an immediate drug test from the league. If it did, and he failed, then he would be in the program too....BUT NOT FOR ALCOHOL. Considering how high profile he is, I cant believe the league would just let that pic slide. So, lets assume he got tested immediately following the pic being posted....
- If he failed, no one but HIM and the league would know...(not even the team)....
- And, here's the caveat, this can be negated and the offender can avoid fines AND suspension by seeking and completing treatment
- Now, we all know Johnny said(many times) that he didnt have a problem and wasnt gonna change for anybody....and then, SUDDENLY, during the off season(and just a few months after the ole rolled up bill incident) he seeks out treatment and does an extended stay......WOW....(I dont believe it and I dont think he did it on his own)(esp based upon how he's acting now)
So.....which is more likely......he suddenly decided he had a problem and sought treatment on his own???(cause he sure isnt acting like it)........OR......he opted for treatment to avoid discipline from the league (which is more how he's acting now, as if he doesnt take it seriously).......
And , if he went into treatment for the bill incident, then alcohol might still be allowed and no one would be aware he was in the program.....
3) The third way to get into the program is simply to ADMIT you have a problem. And by entering rehab, he did just that. You KNOW the league took note of his rehab and, I'm sure, had some discussions with him about it. So, my moneys says that if he wasnt already in ti for the previous 2 reasons, then this is enough on its own.
Finally.....if you're already in the program and show signs of continued addictive behaviors and such, THEN alcohol could be added to the banned list for that player.....and Id expect this to become a possibility for Johnny.....because, in addition to embarrassing himself, he is also embarrassing his team AND the league.......
So....we shall see......but that's my thinking on the whole drug program and why I think theres a strong argument for Johnny to be in it......and league discipline takes quite a while to happen, so there is still an outside chance that his roadside incident might still be followed with some kind of discipline.....or a second rehab stint......
I kind of see johnny as the next Chris Carter.....he's gonna have to fall real far before he gets it......
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Mudfly-".he's gonna have to fall real far before he gets it......"
Think you are right. Someone has always been there to catch him in the past, but now he's in freefall. I'm not sure anyone knows yet where his bottom is. Some have to lose everything. Others wake up with the first real slapdown.
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I will admit honestly, I'm a little upset at the situation.
I was actually rather excited to see Johnny play. He showed some good things against the Steelers and my hope is that perhaps I may have been wrong about him. I wanted to see reasons for the Browns to 'not' have to draft a QB high. I still think he has talent and he might one day grow into it. However that is clearly up to him.
I pray these next couple of weeks he may get his chance. Of course not at the cost of Josh or Austin being injured, but through his own merits.
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I honestly feel for the kid. Its so easy to forget in all this hustle bustle that johnny is actually a person, so I empathize with him. I've struggle with self destructiveness at times as well, and it leads to many other mental health issues if left unchecked. I find it unsettling how many fans forget this is just entertainment, and real world issues like this are trivialized by how fuckng good the football team is.
So many people are losing their humanity in all this...
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Mudfly-".he's gonna have to fall real far before he gets it......"
Think you are right. Someone has always been there to catch him in the past, but now he's in freefall. I'm not sure anyone knows yet where his bottom is. Some have to lose everything. Others wake up with the first real slapdown.
Mudfly-".he's gonna have to fall real far before he gets it......"
Think you are right. Someone has always been there to catch him in the past, but now he's in freefall. I'm not sure anyone knows yet where his bottom is. Some have to lose everything. Others wake up with the first real slapdown.
Think I said earlier, if\when the Browns cut him, he can sit on the porch with Justin Blackmon and knock back some brews & shots complaining how life just isn't fair to them. I'm serious, and it's not funny either.
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You guys are being soooo ridiculous. We are talking about some bullshit, we aren't even talking about PRACTICE. We are not talking about Playing. We are debating whether or not Johnny can have a life outside of football. As long as he's not breaking the law or getting suspended by the NFL, as long as he produces on the field, you can't tell him how to spend his FREE TIME. It's ridiculous. Some of you should go and watch, days of our lives or some shit to get your drama fix.
They need to fire Pettine for mishandling of the team, Gilbert, Manziel, Erving, Bowe, The FB position, Housler, the Defense and the DC. He's so far removed from reality that he's a detriment to this team, the franchise and the fanbase. This micromanaging of a QB's personal life when Pettine's team plays like shit, plays undisciplined, without heart and in essence, plays just like the coach coaches. He's too wrapped up in his jealousy for Manziel's attention that he can't focus on his job, it is showing a clear and decisive indicator that the Head Coaching job is just too big for him. He's a bum. He's not Paul Brown. This is not the 1950's. Pettine is a hypocrite. Benching Johnny made almost made Pettine giggle, you could see it in his presser... could barely stop himself from smiling about the situation.
All you Pettine apologists need to check your priorities. Last time I checked, the NFL was about winning football games. If we are not winning the Superbowl this year then we need to see how Manziel handles the starting QB job. Drink, party or whatever, if he fucks up ON THE FIELD then ship his ass out. BUT! Benching him because of reasons that have nothing to do with playing on the football field or reasons beyond the x's and o's is childish and a worse crime than whatever Manziel did or said.
The secret of getting ahead is getting started. The secret of getting started is breaking your complex overwhelming tasks into small manageable tasks, and then starting on the first one. -Mark Twain- "It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." -Mark Twain- -
Johnny needs to start. Pettine needs to go. I didn't realize we had all sober bible thumpers in the Browns board.
"You planning on having a long relationship with that glass or are you going to drink it? Drink up, man. Maybe we can get another.” - Janis Joplin, 1970. -
He shouldn't of lied, and i understand why they benched him, but Pettine handled the presser like a fucking pussy as well.
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You guys are being soooo ridiculous. We are talking about some bullshit, we aren't even talking about PRACTICE. We are not talking about Playing. We are debating whether or not Johnny can have a life outside of football. As long as he's not breaking the law or getting suspended by the NFL, as long as he produces on the field, you can't tell him how to spend his FREE TIME. It's ridiculous. Some of you should go and watch, days of our lives or some shit to get your drama fix.
They need to fire Pettine for mishandling of the team, Gilbert, Manziel, Erving, Bowe, The FB position, Housler, the Defense and the DC. He's so far removed from reality that he's a detriment to this team, the franchise and the fanbase. This micromanaging of a QB's personal life when Pettine's team plays like shit, plays undisciplined, without heart and in essence, plays just like the coach coaches. He's too wrapped up in his jealousy for Manziel's attention that he can't focus on his job, it is showing a clear and decisive indicator that the Head Coaching job is just too big for him. He's a bum. He's not Paul Brown. This is not the 1950's. Pettine is a hypocrite. Benching Johnny made almost made Pettine giggle, you could see it in his presser... could barely stop himself from smiling about the situation.
All you Pettine apologists need to check your priorities. Last time I checked, the NFL was about winning football games. If we are not winning the Superbowl this year then we need to see how Manziel handles the starting QB job. Drink, party or whatever, if he fucks up ON THE FIELD then ship his ass out. BUT! Benching him because of reasons that have nothing to do with playing on the football field or reasons beyond the x's and o's is childish and a worse crime than whatever Manziel did or said.
Drink, party or whatever, if he fucks up ON THE FIELD
So his debut against Cincy wasn't bad enough last year? How about the Carolina game? No? Cincy this year perhaps?
Self admittedly not being anywhere near as prepared his rookie year. Promising to improve upon that his sophomore season. Saying he would put his nose to the grindstone when named the starter, getting in extra reps with his receivers and possibly his center. Film time off hours. Was the Hasselbeck reference above not enough for you? Kid was in rehab before before he was in his first pro bowl, for Christ sake.
Sit down, adults are talking.
edit: Basically the same for DieHard, as well.
double edit: ONE game. He's had one good game. It wasn't even a win. You don't go out and party when you're 2 and fucking 8. Some of you have never played team sports before on bad teams, that's for damn certain.
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The guys that are defending all this based on hypocrisy are exactly the kinds of people Johnny has been associating himself with. The folks who will make excuses for him, and won't tell him "no" or set any kind of boundaries. It doesn't help him...at all. I've been really, really hard on him. I didn't want to draft him. I knew from the start that the Johnny Football persona is bigger than the team. And I still feel he's his own worst enemy, but I am beginning to have some sympathy for him. This dude has been allowed to manipulate and do whatever he wants his whole life because he could ply football. Of course he's going to push the boundaries as far as he can until someone stops him. That simple. He needs someone around him that doesn't have a financial reason to be around him. Someone he can't control or fire. Haslam has given Johnny more power than his head coach. It's really too late, IMO, to change that now with any kind of credibility. I've heard the Eddie Haskell comparison and I do think its applicable, but what I see moreso is an out of control child star that's never been reigned in. And the sad part of it is the exploitation of him in the process.
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He shouldn't of lied, and i understand why they benched him, but Pettine handled the presser like a fucking pussy as well.
He shouldn't of lied, and i understand why they benched him, but Pettine handled the presser like a fucking pussy as well.
Fucking pussy? How so?
I will admit honestly, I'm a little upset at the situation.
I was actually rather excited to see Johnny play. He showed some good things against the Steelers and my hope is that perhaps I may have been wrong about him.
Substitute "saddened by" for "upset at" and pretty much nails my sentiments.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
He shouldn't of lied, and i understand why they benched him, but Pettine handled the presser like a fucking pussy as well.
Fucking pussy? How so?
I will admit honestly, I'm a little upset at the situation.
I was actually rather excited to see Johnny play. He showed some good things against the Steelers and my hope is that perhaps I may have been wrong about him.
Substitute "saddened by" for "upset at" and pretty much nails my sentiments.
Fucking pussy? How so?
Substitute "saddened by" for "upset at" and pretty much nails my sentiments.
John Belushi was a huge talent that often rendered himself too impossible to work with. Johnny Manziel is the football version of this. The only person he can blame for his own actions is himself.
The only question left to answer is how much rope is Jerry Jones going to give him?
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Fucking pussy? How so?
Substitute "saddened by" for "upset at" and pretty much nails my sentiments.
John Belushi was a huge talent that often rendered himself too impossible to work with. Johnny Manziel is the football version of this. The only person he can blame for his own actions is himself.
The only question left to answer is how much rope is Jerry Jones going to give him?
Absolutely Retard comparisonJohn Belushi was a huge talent that often rendered himself too impossible to work with. Johnny Manziel is the football version of this. The only person he can blame for his own actions is himself.
The only question left to answer is how much rope is Jerry Jones going to give him?
LOL Retard
"You see the Rams are still thinking that they are playing Tony Dorsett" -Jim Brown 1978 -
Seriously, come this off season the team needs to finally cut their losses with these fuck ups like Josh and Johnny and actually start doing something about changing the culture instead of just talking about it every year. Get rid of these bad apples and set the bar high. Make sure the players know that only a 100% commitment to excellence will be tolerated and we might actually start seeing things improve... Or we can keep going down the same road waiting for these same players to fuck the team over once again. Does anyone actually think JM is going to not fuck up again?
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