Jonathan Paul Manziel
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You forgot to add NOT GOING TO WIN YOU ANY GAMES!
I'd agree with that....cause I dont see either of them as franchise QB's or the answer here....
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So Mud, as to the leader of men bit.
1 do you think Joe or Carlos or any other veteran is going to play poorly because Johnny went out and got drunk? Or do you think they will do their best?
2 how many of the other 20 somethings, all athletes all millionaires, care one way or the other about a night out?
Or are you projecting your dissatisfaction on others?
3 if the rumors are true, and that's all we are dealing with here, there are plenty of guys on the team that wish he was the starter. So by your own logic will they slack off on the field because Josh or the mighty Austin is under center?
WSS
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So Mud, as to the leader of men bit.
1 do you think Joe or Carlos or any other veteran is going to play poorly because Johnny went out and got drunk? Or do you think they will do their best?
2 how many of the other 20 somethings, all athletes all millionaires, care one way or the other about a night out?
Or are you projecting your dissatisfaction on others?
3 if the rumors are true, and that's all we are dealing with here, there are plenty of guys on the team that wish he was the starter. So by your own logic will they slack off on the field because Josh or the mighty Austin is under center?
WSS
So Mud, as to the leader of men bit.
1 do you think Joe or Carlos or any other veteran is going to play poorly because Johnny went out and got drunk? Or do you think they will do their best?
I think, on the field, those guys would play their best. Yes. But I also think if players who dont do the work are rewarded with starters jobs(when they haven't earned it) then players WOULD slack off and not buy into working hard....after all, why work hard, when thats not what it takes to get the job? And if players are allowed to do whatever they want, whenever they want....and there are NO repercussions, then the whole team could turn to shit pretty fast...
2 how many of the other 20 somethings, all athletes all millionaires, care one way or the other about a night out?
Or are you projecting your dissatisfaction on others?
Anyone that still thinks this is about "a night out" is either willfully ignorant or clueless.....how many people can lie to their boss(eye to eye) and keep their jobs?>......not too many....just the entitled ones
3 if the rumors are true, and that's all we are dealing with here, there are plenty of guys on the team that wish he was the starter. So by your own logic will they slack off on the field because Josh or the mighty Austin is under center?
And, according to "fact", there are plenty of guys on the team that are supporting the Coaches ad backing McCown. Why should McC lose his job to Manziel? There are plenty of pros that see it that way too.....
Steve...I dont honestly think you'll give this a fair answer, but lets try......
What if you hired a new lead guitar....and paid him in advance for a year.....and then he didnt show up to practice on time.....and didnt bother to learn the songs.....and, then, at the first few gigs, totally screwed up your set.....THEN, you talked to him and he PROMISED he'd learn the songs and get it right.....and the next week you see him out at the bars partying and getting wasted....then he shows up to practice late(and hungover) and still doesnt know the songs......(but rest assured, he will....and when he does, he;ll be great).....and gig after gig he still aint getting it done....and people are laughing at you, because you're dumb enough to keep paying him......then you have a huge gig coming up and you BEG him, please dont mess this up...and he looks you in the eye and says THIS weekend Im staying in, learning the songs and will commit 100% to the band......and then he doesnt, he gets wasted instead....and when you ask him about it, he lies to you....
So.....How many bad gigs, lies or years would you deal with that????
WSS
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According to the facts, as you call it, I can't imagine any player on any team badmouthing whichever quarterback might start. I don't doubt for a minute that almost all the guys like Josh and support him. And who is going to say they don't support the coach? And did any of them say they didn't support Johnny when he was named the starter?
That's a fair question. Still I think it refers more to last season.
Because that guitar player has apparently changed his ways as far as preparing to play the show. He's no longer missing rehearsals, or showing up hungover for gigs. He has at the very least work hard learn the songs and has played well whatever we are on stage. And the fans love him, or many of them do.
So if I give him the boot because I catch him making out with some chick I was hitting on is that good for the band or not
And I have repeatedly said the insubordination is a bad thing and I can't support it. But punishing the team and the fans for a transcription that had nothing to do with his ability to play or his game preparation... Well I know you've made your decision.
WSS
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According to the facts, as you call it, I can't imagine any player on any team badmouthing whichever quarterback might start. I don't doubt for a minute that almost all the guys like Josh and support him. And who is going to say they don't support the coach? And did any of them say they didn't support Johnny when he was named the starter?
That's a fair question. Still I think it refers more to last season.
Because that guitar player has apparently changed his ways as far as preparing to play the show. He's no longer missing rehearsals, or showing up hungover for gigs. He has at the very least work hard learn the songs and has played well whatever we are on stage. And the fans love him, or many of them do.
So if I give him the boot because I catch him making out with some chick I was hitting on is that good for the band or not
And I have repeatedly said the insubordination is a bad thing and I can't support it. But punishing the team and the fans for a transcription that had nothing to do with his ability to play or his game preparation... Well I know you've made your decision.
WSS
And I have repeatedly said the insubordination is a bad thing and I can't support it. But punishing the team and the fans for a transcription that had nothing to do with his ability to play or his game preparation... Well I know you've made your decision.
WSS
Yeah..I have....I think we all have really......
There are those that think it's just a few drinky poos, no big deal.....nothing more, nothing less....(and if it was just that, then I dont understand why Johnny went to rehab for 11 weeks....do you???....)
And there are others(me) who think its more than that...its professional ethics....and a team "trying" to get away from being a disfunctional laughing stock, while their QB makes them look just that way......
If they just let Johnny do whatever he wants and then lie about....then just put him out there, ahead of other guys working harder(and PLAYING better)....then that sends a terrible message to the other 52 players.....
Pettine did the right thing.....
Now.....I think its funny that Johnny himself can say he has a problem....Johnny himself can go to rehab......Johnny himself stands up(repeatedly) and says he's fucking up and will stop doing what he's doing.....but so many fans dont see that.....Just Johnny, his coaches and us "squares" who dont get it.....
And lemme tell ya....I partied my ass off, but also knew when to take care of business and knew I had to make some personal sacrifices to get ahead in my career.......
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And I have repeatedly said the insubordination is a bad thing and I can't support it. But punishing the team and the fans for a transcription that had nothing to do with his ability to play or his game preparation... Well I know you've made your decision.
WSS
Yeah..I have....I think we all have really......
There are those that think it's just a few drinky poos, no big deal.....nothing more, nothing less....(and if it was just that, then I dont understand why Johnny went to rehab for 11 weeks....do you???....)
And there are others(me) who think its more than that...its professional ethics....and a team "trying" to get away from being a disfunctional laughing stock, while their QB makes them look just that way......
If they just let Johnny do whatever he wants and then lie about....then just put him out there, ahead of other guys working harder(and PLAYING better)....then that sends a terrible message to the other 52 players.....
Pettine did the right thing.....
Now.....I think its funny that Johnny himself can say he has a problem....Johnny himself can go to rehab......Johnny himself stands up(repeatedly) and says he's fucking up and will stop doing what he's doing.....but so many fans dont see that.....Just Johnny, his coaches and us "squares" who dont get it.....
And lemme tell ya....I partied my ass off, but also knew when to take care of business and knew I had to make some personal sacrifices to get ahead in my career.......
WSSYeah..I have....I think we all have really......
There are those that think it's just a few drinky poos, no big deal.....nothing more, nothing less....(and if it was just that, then I dont understand why Johnny went to rehab for 11 weeks....do you???....)
☆ no I don't. Apparently neither does anyone. According to the HIPAA laws we're not allowed to know anything. Not you not me Tony fucking Grossi.
Was it even alcohol? Was it blow? Was it gambling? And did he check himself in or go in through a Browns sponsored or league sponsored session? Are there any restrictions? We have no idea.☆
And there are others(me) who think its more than that...its professional ethics....and a team "trying" to get away from being a disfunctional laughing stock, while their QB makes them look just that way......
☆ we look even more dysfunctional because of the way we handle it.☆
If they just let Johnny do whatever he wants and then lie about....then just put him out there, ahead of other guys working harder(and PLAYING better)....then that sends a terrible message to the other 52 players.....
☆ but he is working harder and playing better.☆
Pettine did the right thing.....
☆ if you were a high school coach that might be true. Maybe his hands were tied by his own restrictions. Too late to change that now.
What is the best interest of the team were the focus, we've blown two things. First we will be sitting with a top 5 pick probably no matter what. Do we get Joey Bosa or are we stuck spending hey hi pic on another quarterback roll of the dice?
Or if the plan is to trade him at the end of the season you let him play hope he looks good enough for Jerry Jones to part with a usable draft pick. Then you could use that to draft Lynch, because he is, like, really tall.
☆Now.....I think its funny that Johnny himself can say he has a problem....Johnny himself can go to rehab......Johnny himself stands up(repeatedly) and says he's fucking up and will stop doing what he's doing.....but so many fans dont see that.....Just Johnny, his coaches and us "squares" who dont get it.....
☆ and yet they admit he's made great strides and improved by leaps and bounds and now we know he can play in the NFL. We didn't know that last year. Something has actually changed☆
And lemme tell ya....I partied my ass off, but also knew when to take care of business and knew I had to make some personal sacrifices to get ahead in my career.......
☆ again last year's news. This year nothing he has done has affected his practice or play.☆
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On the other hand hoping he will look good enough to trade and he goes like 5 and 1 or 4 and 2 then coach looks like a dick head for cutting him or trading him at the end of the year.
WSS
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Pettine is an asshole who will be fired at the end of the year. His leadership ability sucks.
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And I have repeatedly said the insubordination is a bad thing and I can't support it. But punishing the team and the fans for a transcription that had nothing to do with his ability to play or his game preparation... Well I know you've made your decision.
WSS
Yeah..I have....I think we all have really......
There are those that think it's just a few drinky poos, no big deal.....nothing more, nothing less....(and if it was just that, then I dont understand why Johnny went to rehab for 11 weeks....do you???....)
And there are others(me) who think its more than that...its professional ethics....and a team "trying" to get away from being a disfunctional laughing stock, while their QB makes them look just that way......
If they just let Johnny do whatever he wants and then lie about....then just put him out there, ahead of other guys working harder(and PLAYING better)....then that sends a terrible message to the other 52 players.....
Pettine did the right thing.....
Now.....I think its funny that Johnny himself can say he has a problem....Johnny himself can go to rehab......Johnny himself stands up(repeatedly) and says he's fucking up and will stop doing what he's doing.....but so many fans dont see that.....Just Johnny, his coaches and us "squares" who dont get it.....
And lemme tell ya....I partied my ass off, but also knew when to take care of business and knew I had to make some personal sacrifices to get ahead in my career.......
Yeah..I have....I think we all have really......
There are those that think it's just a few drinky poos, no big deal.....nothing more, nothing less....(and if it was just that, then I dont understand why Johnny went to rehab for 11 weeks....do you???....)
And there are others(me) who think its more than that...its professional ethics....and a team "trying" to get away from being a disfunctional laughing stock, while their QB makes them look just that way......
If they just let Johnny do whatever he wants and then lie about....then just put him out there, ahead of other guys working harder(and PLAYING better)....then that sends a terrible message to the other 52 players.....
Pettine did the right thing.....
Now.....I think its funny that Johnny himself can say he has a problem....Johnny himself can go to rehab......Johnny himself stands up(repeatedly) and says he's fucking up and will stop doing what he's doing.....but so many fans dont see that.....Just Johnny, his coaches and us "squares" who dont get it.....
And lemme tell ya....I partied my ass off, but also knew when to take care of business and knew I had to make some personal sacrifices to get ahead in my career.......
Hope everyone had a good thanksgiving! I drank more than Manziel in a Houston nightclub that's for sure. Here's the thing to include what you're saying here, just my opinion here.
-The Browns ARE the biggest laughing stock in the NFL. IMO there is nothing that can make the reputation of this franchise worse, to include the decision of playing or not playing Manziel.
-If he lied (has that been confirmed btw?) that makes the more tricky I'll admit. But again, a coach and organizations job isn't to babysit players. According to everything we've heard, he shows up when he's supposed to. He practices well, and was beginning to show it on the field.
So the question becomes, how much does his reputation really matter? Dez Bryant yells at reporters and is a total douche but brings it on Sunday. Jerome Harrison has made a potential HOF career while being a hated man. The point is here, who the fuck cares about reputation over performance? Joe Thomas is a class act, how is that helping us? The Browns need play makers on the field and Manziel can easily be that dude. I love you mofos but McCown isn't that type of talent and never will be. So here we are, playing the guys who "work harder" but we literally are the worst team in the NFL and the joke of the professional sports world.
Honest question: Would you rather have a QB that snaps pictures at a nightclub but wins or have guys who try hard and suck it up? The NFL is a performance based league, not a "who is the nicest" league. Instead of seeing what we have, Pettine is sticking to his guns and will bury this franchise another 2-3 years. But I'll be damned if that isn't with good dudes!
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The sad fact is, he's got an substance addition problem. It's not going to go away and I think it would be even a tougher battle to fight as a NFL player. He's no Farve, by a long-shot. He drinks, or whatever, and makes disasterous decisions. He could've/should've stayed home for the bye-week, studied film, had some friends over...whatever, and showed the Browns that he was taking his opportunity seriously and was going to put in as much work as he could to succeed. He didn't. He can't drink socially. He lies to cover up his behavior and says/does what's needed to get another chance. I feel bad for him, but not for the Browns. They knew they were taking a risk when they couldn't afford to take a risk.
Just try to imaging how alcohol effects this kid. With everything that has already happened, he has a few drinks and decides that going down to party in Austin and Columbus is a good idea.
I hated drafting him for all of the other reasons....too small, too inclined to run, etc. But I never expected this type of behavior. It's sad to see.
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Yeah..I have....I think we all have really......
There are those that think it's just a few drinky poos, no big deal.....nothing more, nothing less....(and if it was just that, then I dont understand why Johnny went to rehab for 11 weeks....do you???....)
And there are others(me) who think its more than that...its professional ethics....and a team "trying" to get away from being a disfunctional laughing stock, while their QB makes them look just that way......
If they just let Johnny do whatever he wants and then lie about....then just put him out there, ahead of other guys working harder(and PLAYING better)....then that sends a terrible message to the other 52 players.....
Pettine did the right thing.....
Now.....I think its funny that Johnny himself can say he has a problem....Johnny himself can go to rehab......Johnny himself stands up(repeatedly) and says he's fucking up and will stop doing what he's doing.....but so many fans dont see that.....Just Johnny, his coaches and us "squares" who dont get it.....
And lemme tell ya....I partied my ass off, but also knew when to take care of business and knew I had to make some personal sacrifices to get ahead in my career.......
Hope everyone had a good thanksgiving! I drank more than Manziel in a Houston nightclub that's for sure. Here's the thing to include what you're saying here, just my opinion here.
-The Browns ARE the biggest laughing stock in the NFL. IMO there is nothing that can make the reputation of this franchise worse, to include the decision of playing or not playing Manziel.
-If he lied (has that been confirmed btw?) that makes the more tricky I'll admit. But again, a coach and organizations job isn't to babysit players. According to everything we've heard, he shows up when he's supposed to. He practices well, and was beginning to show it on the field.
So the question becomes, how much does his reputation really matter? Dez Bryant yells at reporters and is a total douche but brings it on Sunday. Jerome Harrison has made a potential HOF career while being a hated man. The point is here, who the fuck cares about reputation over performance? Joe Thomas is a class act, how is that helping us? The Browns need play makers on the field and Manziel can easily be that dude. I love you mofos but McCown isn't that type of talent and never will be. So here we are, playing the guys who "work harder" but we literally are the worst team in the NFL and the joke of the professional sports world.
Honest question: Would you rather have a QB that snaps pictures at a nightclub but wins or have guys who try hard and suck it up? The NFL is a performance based league, not a "who is the nicest" league. Instead of seeing what we have, Pettine is sticking to his guns and will bury this franchise another 2-3 years. But I'll be damned if that isn't with good dudes!
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Jay Glazer just tweeted ''Browns not giving up on Johnny Manziel ''
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If they said otherwise, would anyone give them anything for Johnny? I mean if they said fuck this guy, than anybody interested in JM realizes we're cutting him and will just wait.
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If they said otherwise, would anyone give them anything for Johnny? I mean if they said fuck this guy, than anybody interested in JM realizes we're cutting him and will just wait.
If they said otherwise, would anyone give them anything for Johnny? I mean if they said fuck this guy, than anybody interested in JM realizes we're cutting him and will just wait.
Bingo!
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That's exactly it Mark.
Let's look at the the possibilities I've come up with.
1) the "Conspiracy " scenario. Manziel did this on purpose, because he can't stand Pettine, and wants to buy his ticket out of town. In that case, mission accomplished. But why bother to go to rehab for 11 weeks? You could have just continued to be a jerk, and got booted before Training Camp.
2) the corollary to that would be he doesn't respect authority- and hasn't "grown up" yet.
3) (Most likely) he's a serious alky- and can't control himself. As my Counselor friend has on the blackboard in letters a foot high "YET"
Yo, TCPO I'm old- but not old enough to remember Otto playing. A I see it- the coaching staff was trying to protect Manziel from himself. They know why Johnny went to rehab. They (meaning Haslam) sign his paychecks. Sure as hell they can set conditions as to what he can or can't do- especially if (to them) he has a known booze problem. If you watch the initial Pettine interview- he was obviously distraught, and disappointed about the situation.
You're as good as your word- and Manziel "promised" he wouldn't be a distraction. Whoops, wrong.
If I had a million dollar a year job, and my boss told me stay out of bars- or else, you think I wouldn't get the message? Apparently Johnny either doesn't give a damn, or can't help himself.
Pettine != Haslam. Pettine has zero say on what Manziel can do, he can only choose to bench him...at the risk of losing his own job.
Pettine has already admitted to making the change without acknowledging Haslam - he only did so after the fact.
There was no "sit down and come to Jesus" at the beginning of the week. It was probably like "hey, don't fuck up this weekend." and Johnny said "okay, man. Sure. I'll relax." And that's exactly what he did. He didn't do anything out of the ordinary. He did what 75% of the league does on their bye.
Pettine is fired. He knows it. He's going out his way - with the guy he wants at QB. That's all there is to it.
And if you don't think other QB's go out during the season - you're insanely naive. I've seen Cam out on a Friday night two days before a game...and he's not the only one.
I think there are plenty of QB's who have a few drinks more than once a week. I am unaware of any of them needing 11 weeks in rehab though. If he worked for me and I saw him headed down the path that already hurt my business in the prior year I'd discipline him too. They are essentially having to raise a substance abusing childPettine != Haslam. Pettine has zero say on what Manziel can do, he can only choose to bench him...at the risk of losing his own job.
Pettine has already admitted to making the change without acknowledging Haslam - he only did so after the fact.
There was no "sit down and come to Jesus" at the beginning of the week. It was probably like "hey, don't fuck up this weekend." and Johnny said "okay, man. Sure. I'll relax." And that's exactly what he did. He didn't do anything out of the ordinary. He did what 75% of the league does on their bye.
Pettine is fired. He knows it. He's going out his way - with the guy he wants at QB. That's all there is to it.
And if you don't think other QB's go out during the season - you're insanely naive. I've seen Cam out on a Friday night two days before a game...and he's not the only one.
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hey who doesn't need a six pack?
queefs that prefer wine?
Alright you bastard, them's fightin' words! Can see I need to take you for a trip to Bordeaux to taste some of them fine red premier crus or sweet Sauternes. Stayed here once. No tv's, no beer and an open, free wine fridge full of their best years. Doesn't get any better'n that.
PS-so you will feel more at home mik, we can take these along to use in tastings.
Alright you bastard, them's fightin' words! Can see I need to take you for a trip to Bordeaux to taste some of them fine red premier crus or sweet Sauternes. Stayed here once. No tv's, no beer and an open, free wine fridge full of their best years. Doesn't get any better'n that.
PS-so you will feel more at home mik, we can take these along to use in tastings.
HA! don't get me wrong i love me some wine. depends on the circumstance. italian dinner with red sauce....red wine. some light seafood......a white. i'm more the sauv blanc or pinot grigio than the pinot noir or cab but will drink all whenever offered. my fave white is this:
http://www.monkeybay.co.nz/sauvignonblanc.html
i'm a cocktails type of guy. beer is cool but it fills me up too quick and feel bloated. a nice gin and tonic or a vodka martini are more my style.....with a cohiba puff outside between commercial breaks.
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It'll be a one or two game non-reported, still-suited-out suspension, like I've said all along. And I think it's a solid move.
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It'll be a one or two game non-reported, still-suited-out suspension, like I've said all along. And I think it's a solid move.
It'll be a one or two game non-reported, still-suited-out suspension, like I've said all along. And I think it's a solid move.
Here is the real question though, what kind of aftercare and for what duration will it be required of him from this point forward? Without that a relapse is damn near guaranteed. He needs a real action plan overseen by professionals or his chances for success will be minimal.
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