Pryor is back Baby!
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That list of teams makes brutal reading. The only team that's taken a first round WR that I can remember the last couple of years that's doing well this year is Carolina...and Benjamin has been out all season.
And I went back like 5 years and didnt find a single one that's made a big difference.....but I did see that only about 20% of the first rounders have played like first rounders......so, yeah, we can tap one of the "great ones"....then cross our fingers.....
And, I honestly believe the odds are better than 20%, that JG will come back and play well......
And I went back like 5 years and didnt find a single one that's made a big difference.....but I did see that only about 20% of the first rounders have played like first rounders......so, yeah, we can tap one of the "great ones"....then cross our fingers.....
And, I honestly believe the odds are better than 20%, that JG will come back and play well......
Seems like good receivers, like running backs, can come from anywhere in the draft. For every OBJ, there's an Antonio Brown. For every Julio Jones, a TY Hilton, for every Mike Evans a Martavis Bryant.
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Lest we forget Josh Gordon lighting it up with Brandon Weeden.
WSS
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...and Jason Campbell, and Brian Hoyer, and pretty much whoever we had back there.
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I have to agree with TCPO on this one. Browns fans believe this mess can be fixed in 2-3 years. Well guess what it cant. I would die to have the browns be an "average" looking football team. Everyone keeps beating their chest demanding we find a qb that is going to lead us to the super bowl. Meanwhile we haven't had a RB that has tallied more than 40 yards in 6 straight games. Manziel fags kept calling McCown and Hoyer average like we are so sick and tired of all the "average" qbs walking into Berea.
"We are Americans. We don't quit doing something because it's wrong. We just keep doing the wrong thing till it turns out right." Browns maybe the most American Football team ever. -
Only in Cleveland could someone be excited about picking up a player no one else wanted, and we cut once already....
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Only in Cleveland could someone be excited about picking up a player no one else wanted, and we cut once already....
Only in Cleveland could someone be excited about picking up a player no one else wanted, and we cut once already....
And if we resign Josh Lenz, they might have a parade......
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Need I point out Farmer has the same opinion about not drafting any RB's high either. We will whiff again on game changers with him running the show. There are two good ones this year, Elliott and Henry. We will miss on both if he remains in place.
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Lest we forget Josh Gordon lighting it up with Brandon Weeden.
WSS
Lest we forget Josh Gordon lighting it up with Brandon Weeden.
WSS
Of course I meant catching a lot of footballs not, you know, actually lighting up....
WSS
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Need I point out Farmer has the same opinion about not drafting any RB's high either. We will whiff again on game changers with him running the show. There are two good ones this year, Elliott and Henry. We will miss on both if he remains in place.
Need I point out Farmer has the same opinion about not drafting any RB's high either. We will whiff again on game changers with him running the show. There are two good ones this year, Elliott and Henry. We will miss on both if he remains in place.
Didnt he just draft RB in the 3rd round 2 years in a row???....and actually trade up to get one of them?....(I think that would be considered picking em high).....
Hes only been here 2 years and you keep ranting that he hasnt picked a WR and, now, RB in the first round......??
You cant build a whole team with the first round....it would take 30 years of hits, to get a starting lineup....you ned to get guys in the later rounds who can do it.....and history has shown that WR and RB are 2 positions that seem to produce top players from the later rounds.....
And honestly....those 2 positions were not really at the top of our needs list, considering we had Gordon 2 years ago and had just signed Tate.....And then, early this year, I think, they felt good coming in with Crow and West.....and the obvious "problem" last year was defense, so if we had tapped a RB(who???) or a WR(who??) and left Shelton on the board...hahaha....all hell would have broken loose.....and you know it....
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Paper never won a game TC. The question was asked on WKNR today- just WHO has Farmer brought in that's going to be one of our building blocks for the future? Bitonio? Our future is a LG? I sort of can buy your argument the coaching is monumentally bad, but I see an o-line that finally got McCown put on IR, and can't open holes for crap. Or a defense that loaded 7-8 in the box against a no-name Ravens RB and the guy was still ripping off 10 yard gains. IMHO- that's not all on coaching- it's about TALENT. Or do you want to tell me JJ Watt or Clay Matthews would look like shit if they were playing for the Browns?
Ray let guys like Ward, Sheard, and Rubin walk, sorry if I think Whitner and Dansby weren't exactly what I'd call upgrades. Brought in a washed up Bowe at an exorbitant price (that the rest of the league passed on), drafted a cb in the first round who can't beat out a journeyman like Bademosi. Brought in Turbin, only to cut him. Traded up to take West. BTW, did you notice Williams get toasted on MNF? No GM bats 1.000, But saying I'm building a foundation with 5-7th round picks and UFAs doesn't cut it. You occasionally have to hit home runs on your premium picks, or you're going to wind up like the Browns mired @ 2-9. In Pettine's defense- this team is currently such a mess, I doubt even guys like Paul Brown or Vince Lombardi could salvage what's left of this season.
Paper doesn't win games? Then the NFL should eradicate GM's, because their job is 100% paper.
Who has Farmer brought in for the future? Well, Bitonio, Shelton, Erving, Manziel, Gilbert, Ekpre Olomu, Duke, Orchard, Crowell...for starters.
What's funny is, if you go back to the time these guys were taken... nearly everyone here is shitting their pants over these acquisitions, saying they are smart picks, guys we need, etc. But then they look like garbage on the field, or don't even see the field and the tune changes. Now they were dumb picks by a stupid asshole who doesn't know anything about the NFL. With the exception of Manziel, nearly everyone here was fine with our first round picks when they happened. But now he's garbage because they aren't playing well? If there's an underperformance from a player, point the fingers at the coach, not the GM.
Look at Williams, Dansby, Starks, and Whitner. These guys were capable veterans with recent Pro Bowls/ All Pro nominations under their belts. Then they come here and....all of a sudden they suck eggs?
You're worried about our run production and think it's Farmer's fault? We have five linemen that were taken in the first 37 picks of the NFL Draft. Two of these linemen were stellar only a year ago and were consistently stellar throughout their careers. Did they just all of a sudden forget how to play?
TP was cut and Turbin was taken when Famrer was suspended, then Turbin was released when Farmer came back. Now we have TP again. I'm not saying it's obvious what happened in that situation...but it should be pretty obvious.
The only legitimate gripe anyone has is Dwayne Bowe...well, we needed to spend to meet the floor of the cap in the offseason. Bowe can't contribute if he doesn't see the field and guess who has final say on game day rosters? Hint: it's not Farmer.
The fact that you can even try and make a case to defend Pettine is hilarious. Farmer has gotten Pettine the players he's asked for (especially with Gilbert who was supposedly 100% Pettine's guy) and Pettine has shit the bed.
Paper doesn't win games? Then the NFL should eradicate GM's, because their job is 100% paper.
Who has Farmer brought in for the future? Well, Bitonio, Shelton, Erving, Manziel, Gilbert, Ekpre Olomu, Duke, Orchard, Crowell...for starters.
What's funny is, if you go back to the time these guys were taken... nearly everyone here is shitting their pants over these acquisitions, saying they are smart picks, guys we need, etc. But then they look like garbage on the field, or don't even see the field and the tune changes. Now they were dumb picks by a stupid asshole who doesn't know anything about the NFL. yup, hindsight is always 20\20 With the exception of Manziel, nearly everyone here was fine with our first round picks when they happened. But now he's garbage because they aren't playing well? If there's an underperformance from a player, point the fingers at the coach, not the GM.
Look at Williams, Dansby, Starks, and Whitner. These guys were capable veterans with recent Pro Bowls/ All Pro nominations under their belts. Then they come here and....all of a sudden they suck eggs?
You're worried about our run production and think it's Farmer's fault? We have five linemen that were taken in the first 37 picks of the NFL Draft. Two of these linemen were stellar only a year ago and were consistently stellar throughout their careers. Did they just all of a sudden forget how to play?
TP was cut and Turbin was taken when Famrer was suspended, then Turbin was released when Farmer came back. Now we have TP again. I'm not saying it's obvious what happened in that situation...but it should be pretty obvious.
The only legitimate gripe anyone has is Dwayne Bowe...well, we needed to spend to meet the floor of the cap in the offseason. Bowe can't contribute if he doesn't see the field and guess who has final say on game day rosters? Hint: it's not Farmer.
The fact that you can even try and make a case to defend Pettine is hilarious. Farmer has gotten Pettine the players he's asked for (especially with Gilbert who was supposedly 100% Pettine's guy) and Pettine has shit the bed.
Who says I'm defending Pettine? He should have axed O'Neil and taken over the D weeks ago. Staying loyal to his pals is what may get him fired.
Farmer could have spend some of the cap money to keep TJ Ward around, who wanted to be here, and actually had a track record. Whitner isn't an upgrade, Dansby maybe slightly over Jackson- but go ahead and say they're not playing up to potential because the coaching stinks. Didn't want Rubin's salary, so adios. Traded away all our d-line depth.
Of the young guys you mentioned, only Bito is making a significant impact. Duke looks like a nice third down back. Crowell is running so stellar a couple quarterbacks have more yardage than him. Stashing Olumu as a redshirt might turn out to be smart. Maybe you didn't read the other thread where Farmer apparently didn't do his homework on Gilbert. You may remember I almost puked when they took Johnny Juicer- but the jury is still out on that one.
PS Bowe can't see the field because he's washed up and only around to collect a paycheck. Easy to see why- when they isolated him on MNF and he couldn't get separation on a quick out. That Pettine would not play Bowe or Gilbert just to spite Farmer is flat out nuts.
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Clear winner... lol
I'll give him Bito, but McCown and Shelton were easy calls. If they weren't, then I wouldn't have made them.
As for the rest... would you want to stake your GM job on that average-at-best list?
Yes. Average is how you build the bottom of your team up - which is the first step to rebuilding your franchise. You don't take a cellar dweller, throw three top guys on there, and expect them to be contenders. You raise the floor which allows you do swing for the fences on top talent here and there.
We haven't been even close to a complete team in ages. But three average drafts, with three average free agency periods fields a team that is....average, something that we haven't been for a long time.
Look at this roster compared to 2012's and tell me we're not loads better on paper. And a GM's job is just that - on paper. It's the coaching staff's job to turn paper into playoffs. You scout, you make deals, and you take the guys who seem to give you the best chance to win. And then you throw it to your coaches and let them run with it.
The only overlap that should occur between coach and GM is determining the identity of your team.
Pettine said he wanted a physical team that would play strong defense, run the ball, and bully other teams. So Farmer gets him a corner, gets him a guard, gets him a talented veteran LB, and gets him a talented veteran SS.
Pettine fails with this and says our run d should be better but we have no inside talent, our Secondary should be better but Farmer's corner is a bust, we don't have a QB who can manage games and we should be able to run the ball better but we have no OL depth. So Farmer gets him a DT, a utility OL, an RB, a proven veteran CB, a proven veteran DL, and a veteran QB.
Pettine is failing again and now it's "oh Farmer can't pick players...he should have taken a WR". He's taking the guys Pettine said he needed.
A GM needs to be judged on two things - did he improve the team and, if yes, did he mortgage the future in doing so? Farmer passes both of those tests.
Look at this roster compared to 2012's and tell me we're not loads better on paper.
First, explain why, other than benefitting your argument, Farmer gets credit for the 2012 draft.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Need I point out Farmer has the same opinion about not drafting any RB's high either. We will whiff again on game changers with him running the show. There are two good ones this year, Elliott and Henry. We will miss on both if he remains in place.
Need I point out Farmer has the same opinion about not drafting any RB's high either. We will whiff again on game changers with him running the show. There are two good ones this year, Elliott and Henry. We will miss on both if he remains in place.
He has the same opinion that nearly everyone in the league shares, as well as Kiper and McShay and anyone else paid to evaluate the draft.
Unless a runningback has truly transcendent talent, it's not worth a first round pick.
This year, the top 5 rushing leaders are all first round picks, I will grant you. But last year, they were second, third or seventh rounders. As a matter of fact, there's only been two years in recent history where there's been more than one first round pick in the top five in rushing (2013, 2015).
These are the guys who have finished at least one season in the top five in rushing since 2010.
Arian Foster - UDFA
Le'Veon Bell - 2nd round
Michael Turner - 5th round
DeMarco Murray -3rd round
LeSean McCoy - 2nd round
Jamaal Charles - 3rd round
Ray Rice - 2nd round
Maurice Jones-Drew - 2nd round
Matt Forte - 2nd round
Justin Forsett - 7th round
Alfred Morris - 6th round
Adrian Peterson - 1st round
Marshawn Lynch - 1st round
Chris Johnson - 1st round
Doug Martin - 1st round
Todd Gurley - 1st round
There are just as many talented running backs in rounds 2 and 3 as there are in round one. And that's where we took our guy.
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Look at this roster compared to 2012's and tell me we're not loads better on paper.
First, explain why, other than benefitting your argument, Farmer gets credit for the 2012 draft.
First, explain why, other than benefitting your argument, Farmer gets credit for the 2012 draft.
I'm not crediting him with the draft, I'm saying compare the roster that Farmer built to the roster that existed before Farmer came to Cleveland in 2013.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Need I point out Farmer has the same opinion about not drafting any RB's high either. We will whiff again on game changers with him running the show. There are two good ones this year, Elliott and Henry. We will miss on both if he remains in place.
He has the same opinion that nearly everyone in the league shares, as well as Kiper and McShay and anyone else paid to evaluate the draft.
Unless a runningback has truly transcendent talent, it's not worth a first round pick.
This year, the top 5 rushing leaders are all first round picks, I will grant you. But last year, they were second, third or seventh rounders. As a matter of fact, there's only been two years in recent history where there's been more than one first round pick in the top five in rushing (2013, 2015).
These are the guys who have finished at least one season in the top five in rushing since 2010.
Arian Foster - UDFA
Le'Veon Bell - 2nd round
Michael Turner - 5th round
DeMarco Murray -3rd round
LeSean McCoy - 2nd round
Jamaal Charles - 3rd round
Ray Rice - 2nd round
Maurice Jones-Drew - 2nd round
Matt Forte - 2nd round
Justin Forsett - 7th round
Alfred Morris - 6th round
Adrian Peterson - 1st round
Marshawn Lynch - 1st round
Chris Johnson - 1st round
Doug Martin - 1st round
Todd Gurley - 1st round
There are just as many talented running backs in rounds 2 and 3 as there are in round one. And that's where we took our guy.
He has the same opinion that nearly everyone in the league shares, as well as Kiper and McShay and anyone else paid to evaluate the draft.
Unless a runningback has truly transcendent talent, it's not worth a first round pick.
This year, the top 5 rushing leaders are all first round picks, I will grant you. But last year, they were second, third or seventh rounders. As a matter of fact, there's only been two years in recent history where there's been more than one first round pick in the top five in rushing (2013, 2015).
These are the guys who have finished at least one season in the top five in rushing since 2010.
Arian Foster - UDFA
Le'Veon Bell - 2nd round
Michael Turner - 5th round
DeMarco Murray -3rd round
LeSean McCoy - 2nd round
Jamaal Charles - 3rd round
Ray Rice - 2nd round
Maurice Jones-Drew - 2nd round
Matt Forte - 2nd round
Justin Forsett - 7th round
Alfred Morris - 6th round
Adrian Peterson - 1st round
Marshawn Lynch - 1st round
Chris Johnson - 1st round
Doug Martin - 1st round
Todd Gurley - 1st round
There are just as many talented running backs in rounds 2 and 3 as there are in round one. And that's where we took our guy.
I think you just made my point. Farmer would not take a can't miss back like Henry if he is still there early 2nd (and that just might be the case).
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He has the same opinion that nearly everyone in the league shares, as well as Kiper and McShay and anyone else paid to evaluate the draft.
Unless a runningback has truly transcendent talent, it's not worth a first round pick.
This year, the top 5 rushing leaders are all first round picks, I will grant you. But last year, they were second, third or seventh rounders. As a matter of fact, there's only been two years in recent history where there's been more than one first round pick in the top five in rushing (2013, 2015).
These are the guys who have finished at least one season in the top five in rushing since 2010.
Arian Foster - UDFA
Le'Veon Bell - 2nd round
Michael Turner - 5th round
DeMarco Murray -3rd round
LeSean McCoy - 2nd round
Jamaal Charles - 3rd round
Ray Rice - 2nd round
Maurice Jones-Drew - 2nd round
Matt Forte - 2nd round
Justin Forsett - 7th round
Alfred Morris - 6th round
Adrian Peterson - 1st round
Marshawn Lynch - 1st round
Chris Johnson - 1st round
Doug Martin - 1st round
Todd Gurley - 1st round
There are just as many talented running backs in rounds 2 and 3 as there are in round one. And that's where we took our guy.
I think you just made my point. Farmer would not take a can't miss back like Henry if he is still there early 2nd (and that just might be the case).
I think you just made my point. Farmer would not take a can't miss back like Henry if he is still there early 2nd (and that just might be the case).
Yes, you're right. Trading up to take a back in the third round screams of "I don't want a runningback".
I'm glad you can point out these "can't miss" Alabama runningbacks - because there are so few of them recently.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
He has the same opinion that nearly everyone in the league shares, as well as Kiper and McShay and anyone else paid to evaluate the draft.
Unless a runningback has truly transcendent talent, it's not worth a first round pick.
This year, the top 5 rushing leaders are all first round picks, I will grant you. But last year, they were second, third or seventh rounders. As a matter of fact, there's only been two years in recent history where there's been more than one first round pick in the top five in rushing (2013, 2015).
These are the guys who have finished at least one season in the top five in rushing since 2010.
Arian Foster - UDFA
Le'Veon Bell - 2nd round
Michael Turner - 5th round
DeMarco Murray -3rd round
LeSean McCoy - 2nd round
Jamaal Charles - 3rd round
Ray Rice - 2nd round
Maurice Jones-Drew - 2nd round
Matt Forte - 2nd round
Justin Forsett - 7th round
Alfred Morris - 6th round
Adrian Peterson - 1st round
Marshawn Lynch - 1st round
Chris Johnson - 1st round
Doug Martin - 1st round
Todd Gurley - 1st round
There are just as many talented running backs in rounds 2 and 3 as there are in round one. And that's where we took our guy.
I think you just made my point. Farmer would not take a can't miss back like Henry if he is still there early 2nd (and that just might be the case).
I think you just made my point. Farmer would not take a can't miss back like Henry if he is still there early 2nd (and that just might be the case).
Farmer maybe hasnt picked RB or WR in his first couple of years ....but the Browns have plenty of experience there....
The last "cant miss" back we picked was....one MR. Trent Richardson(pick #3).....supposedly THE BEST back in years...
The last "cant miss" receiver we picked was....one MR. Braylon Edwards.......
Then, of course, we scored big with William Green(pick #16), Monterio Hardesty(2nd rnd), Tommy Vardell(pick #9)...
So...right there....the last 5 cant miss RB's and WR's weve selected have all busted.....and several were CLEARLY the favorites nation wide as future superstars.....Richardson, Edwards and Winslow were supposed to be generational players,,,,
And....the Browns have not drafted a quality 1st round receiver since 1964.....every single one, since Paul Warfield 1964, has been a complete(non starting) bust....every....single....one.....
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I'm not crediting him with the draft, I'm saying compare the roster that Farmer built to the roster that existed before Farmer came to Cleveland in 2013.
My bad... should have said 2013, but it's not consequential enough to sway the comparison. Though why you'd want credit for the Davone Bess trade considered as part of Farmer's path to today...
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I think you just made my point. Farmer would not take a can't miss back like Henry if he is still there early 2nd (and that just might be the case).
Farmer maybe hasnt picked RB or WR in his first couple of years ....but the Browns have plenty of experience there....
The last "cant miss" back we picked was....one MR. Trent Richardson(pick #3).....supposedly THE BEST back in years...
The last "cant miss" receiver we picked was....one MR. Braylon Edwards.......
Then, of course, we scored big with William Green(pick #16), Monterio Hardesty(2nd rnd), Tommy Vardell(pick #9)...
So...right there....the last 5 cant miss RB's and WR's weve selected have all busted.....and several were CLEARLY the favorites nation wide as future superstars.....Richardson, Edwards and Winslow were supposed to be generational players,,,,
And....the Browns have not drafted a quality 1st round receiver since 1964.....every single one, since Paul Warfield 1964, has been a complete(non starting) bust....every....single....one.....
Farmer maybe hasnt picked RB or WR in his first couple of years ....but the Browns have plenty of experience there....
The last "cant miss" back we picked was....one MR. Trent Richardson(pick #3).....supposedly THE BEST back in years...
The last "cant miss" receiver we picked was....one MR. Braylon Edwards.......
Then, of course, we scored big with William Green(pick #16), Monterio Hardesty(2nd rnd), Tommy Vardell(pick #9)...
So...right there....the last 5 cant miss RB's and WR's weve selected have all busted.....and several were CLEARLY the favorites nation wide as future superstars.....Richardson, Edwards and Winslow were supposed to be generational players,,,,
And....the Browns have not drafted a quality 1st round receiver since 1964.....every single one, since Paul Warfield 1964, has been a complete(non starting) bust....every....single....one.....
Greg Little was an early 2nd Rounder as well IIRC...
Going to look at some tape, but to date Henry scares the shit out of me as a prospect.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
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