Pryor is back Baby!

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@tour2ma said:
First, explain why, other than benefitting your argument, Farmer gets credit for the 2012 draft.

I'm not crediting him with the draft, I'm saying compare the roster that Farmer built to the roster that existed before Farmer came to Cleveland in 2013.

TexasAg1969

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

He has the same opinion that nearly everyone in the league shares, as well as Kiper and McShay and anyone else paid to evaluate the draft.

Unless a runningback has truly transcendent talent, it's not worth a first round pick.

This year, the top 5 rushing leaders are all first round picks, I will grant you. But last year, they were second, third or seventh rounders. As a matter of fact, there's only been two years in recent history where there's been more than one first round pick in the top five in rushing (2013, 2015).

These are the guys who have finished at least one season in the top five in rushing since 2010.

Arian Foster - UDFA

Le'Veon Bell - 2nd round

Michael Turner - 5th round

DeMarco Murray -3rd round

LeSean McCoy - 2nd round

Jamaal Charles - 3rd round

Ray Rice - 2nd round

Maurice Jones-Drew - 2nd round

Matt Forte - 2nd round

Justin Forsett - 7th round

Alfred Morris - 6th round

Adrian Peterson - 1st round

Marshawn Lynch - 1st round

Chris Johnson - 1st round

Doug Martin - 1st round

Todd Gurley - 1st round

There are just as many talented running backs in rounds 2 and 3 as there are in round one. And that's where we took our guy.

I think you just made my point. Farmer would not take a can't miss back like Henry if he is still there early 2nd (and that just might be the case).

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@texasag1969 said:

I think you just made my point. Farmer would not take a can't miss back like Henry if he is still there early 2nd (and that just might be the case).

Yes, you're right. Trading up to take a back in the third round screams of "I don't want a runningback".

I'm glad you can point out these "can't miss" Alabama runningbacks - because there are so few of them recently.

Mudfly

@texasag1969 said:

I think you just made my point. Farmer would not take a can't miss back like Henry if he is still there early 2nd (and that just might be the case).

Farmer maybe hasnt picked RB or WR in his first couple of years ....but the Browns have plenty of experience there....

The last "cant miss" back we picked was....one MR. Trent Richardson(pick #3).....supposedly THE BEST back in years...

The last "cant miss" receiver we picked was....one MR. Braylon Edwards.......

Then, of course, we scored big with William Green(pick #16), Monterio Hardesty(2nd rnd), Tommy Vardell(pick #9)...

So...right there....the last 5 cant miss RB's and WR's weve selected have all busted.....and several were CLEARLY the favorites nation wide as future superstars.....Richardson, Edwards and Winslow were supposed to be generational players,,,,

And....the Browns have not drafted a quality 1st round receiver since 1964.....every single one, since Paul Warfield 1964, has been a complete(non starting) bust....every....single....one.....

Tour2ma

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:
I'm not crediting him with the draft, I'm saying compare the roster that Farmer built to the roster that existed before Farmer came to Cleveland in 2013.

My bad... should have said 2013, but it's not consequential enough to sway the comparison. Though why you'd want credit for the Davone Bess trade considered as part of Farmer's path to today...

Tour2ma

@mudfly said:

Farmer maybe hasnt picked RB or WR in his first couple of years ....but the Browns have plenty of experience there....

The last "cant miss" back we picked was....one MR. Trent Richardson(pick #3).....supposedly THE BEST back in years...

The last "cant miss" receiver we picked was....one MR. Braylon Edwards.......

Then, of course, we scored big with William Green(pick #16), Monterio Hardesty(2nd rnd), Tommy Vardell(pick #9)...

So...right there....the last 5 cant miss RB's and WR's weve selected have all busted.....and several were CLEARLY the favorites nation wide as future superstars.....Richardson, Edwards and Winslow were supposed to be generational players,,,,

And....the Browns have not drafted a quality 1st round receiver since 1964.....every single one, since Paul Warfield 1964, has been a complete(non starting) bust....every....single....one.....

Greg Little was an early 2nd Rounder as well IIRC...

Going to look at some tape, but to date Henry scares the shit out of me as a prospect.

Tour2ma

Just on my way to verifying when we picked Little, when I saw that in 2014 Farmer made two draft day trades on Day 1.

I remembered the trade-up for JM at #22, but forgot it cost us #26 and a 3rd round.

But I completely forgot we traded up from #9 to #8 for Gilbert and that cost us a 5th.

I think I'll go lie down a while...

Mudfly

@tour2ma said:

Greg Little was an early 2nd Rounder as well IIRC...

yep.....and Massaquoi, Quincy Morgan, Andre Davis & Brian Robiskie......and going back into the 90's, you can add Rowe and Tillman...

And there are more.....but my quick count, since Warfield, has us drafting 19 WR's in the first/second rounds and only 3 that have panned out for us....all the best ones were 2nd rounders too....Slaughter, Northcutt and Kevin Johnson....

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@tour2ma said:

Just on my way to verifying when we picked Little, when I saw that in 2014 Farmer made two draft day trades on Day 1.

I remembered the trade-up for JM at #22, but forgot it cost us #26 and a 3rd round.

But I completely forgot we traded up from #9 to #8 for Gilbert and that cost us a 5th.

I think I'll go lie down a while...

Actually, three. We traded out of four, picked up a 2015 first and fourth.

Then moved up from 9 to 8 and sacrificed a fifth.

Then moved up again from 26 to 22 and forfeited a third.

So we turned #4 and #26 into Gilbert, Manziel and Erving.

Mudfly

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

So we turned #4 and #26 into Gilbert, Manziel and Erving.

..and Campbell.SS.....

hoorta

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

Yes, you're right. Trading up to take a back in the third round screams of "I don't want a runningback".

I'm glad you can point out these "can't miss" Alabama runningbacks - because there are so few of them recently.

Traded up, and got West- who moved East to Baltimore. I don't mind so much that he busted- but we gave away a pick in the process that just maybe wouldn't have.

Who's doing the research for Farmer on character issues? Should be fired.

TexasAg1969

@tour2ma said:

Greg Little was an early 2nd Rounder as well IIRC...

Going to look at some tape, but to date Henry scares the shit out of me as a prospect.

Go watch his Auburn tape. 46 carries and he never slowed down. The last was a 25 yd. TD where he left 2nd and 3rd levels in the dust. He's a warrior.

PS-and everyone in the stadium knew he was getting the ball every play all the way down the field that last drive because they needed to run the clock out and play keepaway. Didn't matter.

BTW did any of you know he broke Ken Hall's (The Sugarland Express) all time high school record that had stood since the early 50's?

From Wiki: "He finished his high school football career with 12,124 career rushing yards, which broke Ken Hall's career record."

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@hoorta said:

Traded up, and got West- who moved East to Baltimore. I don't mind so much that he busted- but we gave away a pick in the process that just maybe wouldn't have.

Who's doing the research for Farmer on character issues? Should be fired.

I'm more of the mindset that I'd rather rid myself of a guy who probably won't do anything immediately, rather than have him waste a roster spot for a while.

It would be different if West and Mayle went on to do something somewhere, but they haven't thus far.

West was worth a look, we didn't like what we saw, we moved on. Mayle was a decent value and had potential, but was either an asshole or just Greg Little 2.0, so we moved on.

hoorta

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

I'm more of the mindset that I'd rather rid myself of a guy who probably won't do anything immediately, rather than have him waste a roster spot for a while.

It would be different if West and Mayle went on to do something somewhere, but they haven't thus far.

West was worth a look, we didn't like what we saw, we moved on. Mayle was a decent value and had potential, but was either an asshole or just Greg Little 2.0, so we moved on.

& this is the crazy thing TC. Then WHY are we wasting a roster spot on Bowe? Just to soothe Farmer's ego that he made a monumental f**kup? We brought back Pryor. Hell, I'd even bring back Josh Lenz- who would at least give a damn how he plays.

There has to be some disconnect between Pettine and Farmer. Mike is seeing these guys every day in practice, and breaks down every play they're involved in. He's obviously determined (backed up by Gruden) that Bowe is a worthless, overpaid POS. At least the argument can be made Gilbert "can be coached up".

bbedward

@hoorta said:

& this is the crazy thing TC. Then WHY are we wasting a roster spot on Bowe? Just to soothe Farmer's ego that he made a monumental f**kup? We brought back Pryor. Hell, I'd even bring back Josh Lenz- who would at least give a damn how he plays.

Good question. He was only on a 1 year deal anyway right? I say suck up the loss and give a few game reps to some prospects - it's not like we're playing for anything...or have any serious talent at WR where we have no room for a prospect (especially with Hawkins and Gabriel out)

I mean if Bowe isn't getting reps with a wide receiver squad of Travis Benjamin, Brian Hartline, and Marlon Moore - just suck it up and cut the guy

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@hoorta said:

& this is the crazy thing TC. Then WHY are we wasting a roster spot on Bowe? Just to soothe Farmer's ego that he made a monumental f**kup? We brought back Pryor. Hell, I'd even bring back Josh Lenz- who would at least give a damn how he plays.

There has to be some disconnect between Pettine and Farmer. Mike is seeing these guys every day in practice, and breaks down every play they're involved in. He's obviously determined (backed up by Gruden) that Bowe is a worthless, overpaid POS. At least the argument can be made Gilbert "can be coached up".

The Bowe acquisition made sense. He filled a void, he was a proven veteran talent, and we HAD to spend the money. Why we're hanging on to him? No idea.

I agree that there is a giant disconnect between Pettine and Farmer, I think it's very apparent. The fact that it's in Pettine's contract that he has final say on game day rosters is very telling of what is happening with Manziel, Gilbert, Bowe, etc.

Manziel, Gilbert and Bowe are in Pettine's dog house and won't get any playing time as long as Pettine is coach. This was pointed out in an OBR article not too long ago about how Pettine treats players.

Problem is...Manziel (and probably Gilbert) are FO guys. No doubt Haslam wants to see Manziel on the field, and Gilbert on the sideline is doing nobody any good. Pettine won't play them, and isn't contractually obliged to listen to Farmer et al on his roster.

I think the TP fiasco is the same - TP was a Farmer acquisition. Farmer goes on suspension and TP is cut, replaced by Turbin. Farmer comes back, cuts Turbin, and now we have TP again.

It's a power struggle, and it's one that Pettine isn't going to win. Because say what you will of Farmer - he's done his portion of the job better than Pettine has.

The Gipper

@cdl15 said:

I have to agree with TCPO on this one. Browns fans believe this mess can be fixed in 2-3 years. Well guess what it cant.

Yes, it can. Easily. It would take only at most 3-4 players....and better coaching....which is the main key.

I would die to have the browns be an "average" looking football team. Everyone keeps beating their chest demanding we find a qb that is going to lead us to the super bowl. Meanwhile we haven't had a RB that has tallied more than 40 yards in 6 straight games. Manziel fags kept calling McCown and Hoyer average like we are so sick and tired of all the "average" qbs walking into Berea.

And....of course one of those player must be a quality QB.

TheOllieC

Derrick Henry is Brandon Jacobs v2. Not an elite RB prospect.

This guy is a tool but I agree with him: https://twitter.com/nfldraftscout/status/665716844628590592?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

TexasAg1969 · Nov 14, 2015 638 284View on X

@theolliec said:

Derrick Henry is Brandon Jacobs v2. Not an elite RB prospect.

This guy is a tool but I agree with him: https://twitter.com/nfldraftscout/status/665716844628590592?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

Brandon Jones 6'1" 210 lbs.

Henry 6'3" 238 lbs.

There is no comparison when the Browns need a power back to move the ball 3-4 yards regularly compared to the pathetic output we see now. And those that compare him to Richardson are similarly mistaken. Henry goes where the play is designed, might make a small move or two and then runs through arm tackles or powers over LBs. when needed. When he does clear them he turns on the speed. He also is there for the second half unlike what we see now.

Form your own opinion by watching him this Saturday in the SEC championship game. Then come back and say what you saw. Watch the entire game. He plays better the more carries he gets.

miktoxic

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

It's a power struggle, and it's one that Pettine isn't going to win. Because say what you will of Farmer - he's done his portion of the job better than Pettine has.

you're an ass.

you just said how all these farmer acquisitions suck but then say that farmer has done his job better than pettine. then go on to say pettine sees these players perform in practice everyday and decides who plays given their performance...

WTF??