Draft Question: QBs overrated?
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QB's are valued high because you don't win in the NFL consistently without a franchise QB period. The argument of where you get that dude is debatable but this is about as objective of a fact as there in the NFL. Of course there's teams that have a fluke year with a great defense (see Texans this year) but that doesn't last without inserting franchise dude.
Before you guys jump on that comment, no one is saying a QB solves all the problems and you still have to have a good team to be a legit serious contender. BUT, the QB is the engine that makes the car go. You can have shiny wheels and a killer stereo but that car aint moving without a working engine. You can get it towed to a new location but that doesn't mean you fixed the car.
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QB's are valued high because you don't win in the NFL consistently without a franchise QB period. The argument of where you get that dude is debatable but this is about as objective of a fact as there in the NFL. Of course there's teams that have a fluke year with a great defense (see Texans this year) but that doesn't last without inserting franchise dude.
Before you guys jump on that comment, no one is saying a QB solves all the problems and you still have to have a good team to be a legit serious contender. BUT, the QB is the engine that makes the car go. You can have shiny wheels and a killer stereo but that car aint moving without a working engine. You can get it towed to a new location but that doesn't mean you fixed the car.
QB's are valued high because you don't win in the NFL consistently without a franchise QB period. The argument of where you get that dude is debatable but this is about as objective of a fact as there in the NFL. Of course there's teams that have a fluke year with a great defense (see Texans this year) but that doesn't last without inserting franchise dude.
Can you say 2000 Ravens, 2002 Bucs, 2005 Steelers
Before you guys jump on that comment, no one is saying a QB solves all the problems and you still have to have a good team to be a legit serious contender. BUT, the QB is the engine that makes the car go. You can have shiny wheels and a killer stereo but that car aint moving without a working engine. You can get it towed to a new location but that doesn't mean you fixed the car.
Of course, the problem is that you get that car towed to a location...and they correct it.....you think by bringing in that high round pick, but then you learn that the additive that was put in your car was pure salt......and that your engine is corroded from the inside out now.....and you have to replace the entire engine....or buy a new car.
That has been the Browns unlucky history. We get that top pick and we probably go for one of these guys who turns out to be the next.....you pick: Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith, Brady Quinn, Jamarcus Russell, Joey Harrington, Matt Leinert, Vince Young.
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I think thats part of what people are missing....because outside of Tim Couch, we've never really spent a "high pick" get one of these guys......
Quinn and Manziel were late first round picks and were both were picked in years where we had 2 firsts.....and were our second picks both times....meaning, to me, that we had an "extra" pick to burn in an effort to find our next QB....
BUT.....if we honestly thought they were "the guy", do you think we would have made them our 2nd pick instead of #1....????
I dont.....and I also dont think we would have picked EITHER if we only had the one pick.....
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I think thats part of what people are missing....because outside of Tim Couch, we've never really spent a "high pick" get one of these guys......
Quinn and Manziel were late first round picks and were both were picked in years where we had 2 firsts.....and were our second picks both times....meaning, to me, that we had an "extra" pick to burn in an effort to find our next QB....
BUT.....if we honestly thought they were "the guy", do you think we would have made them our 2nd pick instead of #1....????
I dont.....and I also dont think we would have picked EITHER if we only had the one pick.....
I think thats part of what people are missing....because outside of Tim Couch, we've never really spent a "high pick" get one of these guys......
Quinn and Manziel were late first round picks and were both were picked in years where we had 2 firsts.....and were our second picks both times....meaning, to me, that we had an "extra" pick to burn in an effort to find our next QB....
BUT.....if we honestly thought they were "the guy", do you think we would have made them our 2nd pick instead of #1....????
I dont.....and I also dont think we would have picked EITHER if we only had the one pick.....
Fair enough. In fact that was the case with all three: Quinn....picked same year as JT. Weeden...picked same year as TR. JFF picked same year as Gilbert.
God...if only those latter two had turned out as good as JT did....the pain of it all would not be so bad perhaps.
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Cleve, calm it on the Pryor talk. The guy has caught fewer balls than Dwayne Bowe this year, let's not expect him to all of a sudden be an elite receiver.
Cleve, calm it on the Pryor talk. The guy has caught fewer balls than Dwayne Bowe this year, let's not expect him to all of a sudden be an elite receiver.
fully agree but just sending him downfield on a sprint opens up things for everyone else, especially Barnidge who would cut underneath. Putting fresh legs in every couple plays just tire out the secondary could have a massive impact overall on the opposing defense. Of course the other two guy would be the more go-to guys. But just think of a secondary that's perhaps already worn down a little over 3 quarters having to contend with Pryor in the 4th who's making them chase him down the field. I wouldn't be throwing complicated routes at pryor or nothing, just saying point those sails down wind and stretch out young man.
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I think thats part of what people are missing....because outside of Tim Couch, we've never really spent a "high pick" get one of these guys......
Quinn and Manziel were late first round picks and were both were picked in years where we had 2 firsts.....and were our second picks both times....meaning, to me, that we had an "extra" pick to burn in an effort to find our next QB....
BUT.....if we honestly thought they were "the guy", do you think we would have made them our 2nd pick instead of #1....????
I dont.....and I also dont think we would have picked EITHER if we only had the one pick.....
Fair enough. In fact that was the case with all three: Quinn....picked same year as JT. Weeden...picked same year as TR. JFF picked same year as Gilbert.
God...if only those latter two had turned out as good as JT did....the pain of it all would not be so bad perhaps.
Fair enough. In fact that was the case with all three: Quinn....picked same year as JT. Weeden...picked same year as TR. JFF picked same year as Gilbert.
God...if only those latter two had turned out as good as JT did....the pain of it all would not be so bad perhaps.
Ahh....Weeden too.....forgot about him......which is easy to do
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Forget drafting a QB first next year.
Paxton is a project player, and i'm not crazy about Goff.
I do like Connor Cook though, but fuck it, i'd want Laquon Treadwell or Bosa.
It sucks that there's not much SURE out of the park NFL talent in this next draft compared to other years.
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Draft position is all about qualitative probability of success. Only with the QB position does that success not have to be fully realized in year one.
McCown affords us the luxury of not having to rush a QB into action. Plus he's the guy to mentor one.
We're about to find out if Austin adds a layer of insurance to that scenario.
Then we'll find out if AD or JM eliminates the need to agonize over the value of spending a 2016 pick on the highest probability QB we see.
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Draft position is all about qualitative probability of success. Only with the QB position does that success not have to be fully realized in year one.
McCown affords us the luxury of not having to rush a QB into action. Plus he's the guy to mentor one.
We're about to find out if Austin adds a layer of insurance to that scenario.
Then we'll find out if AD or JM eliminates the need to agonize over the value of spending a 2016 pick on the highest probability QB we see.
Draft position is all about qualitative probability of success. Only with the QB position does that success not have to be fully realized in year one.
McCown affords us the luxury of not having to rush a QB into action. Plus he's the guy to mentor one.
We're about to find out if Austin adds a layer of insurance to that scenario.
Then we'll find out if AD or JM eliminates the need to agonize over the value of spending a 2016 pick on the highest probability QB we see.
I agree Tour but I'm not so sure that 5 games is enough time to figure out if either is the right one, especially if say Austin gets 3 and JM 2 or vice/versa. I personally would keep playing Austin if he appears to be playing well game by game. That is just being objective. JM screwed the pooch on his shot, so if Austin proves out as each game goes, then it' s time to keep him and trade out JM because this is a team that needs every pick it can muster across the board. Tough thing for an Ag to write, but true nonetheless.
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Forget drafting a QB first next year.
Paxton is a project player, and i'm not crazy about Goff.
I do like Connor Cook though, but fuck it, i'd want Laquon Treadwell or Bosa.
It sucks that there's not much SURE out of the park NFL talent in this next draft compared to other years.
Forget drafting a QB first next year.
Paxton is a project player, and i'm not crazy about Goff.
I do like Connor Cook though, but fuck it, i'd want Laquon Treadwell or Bosa.
It sucks that there's not much SURE out of the park NFL talent in this next draft compared to other years.
My absolute DREAM scenario is that Cook falls some because of the other two guys being higher up and other stupid stuff. Draft a defensive guy (Bosa or Jaylon) and trade into the teens for Cook would honestly be a cornerstone to turn this team around. Cook is a guy who literally does everyone you want in a franchise QB, comes from a pro-style system and is a proven winner.
For the love of God though, DONT DRAFT HIM AT 22.
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Draft position is all about qualitative probability of success. Only with the QB position does that success not have to be fully realized in year one.
McCown affords us the luxury of not having to rush a QB into action. Plus he's the guy to mentor one.
We're about to find out if Austin adds a layer of insurance to that scenario.
Then we'll find out if AD or JM eliminates the need to agonize over the value of spending a 2016 pick on the highest probability QB we see.
I agree Tour but I'm not so sure that 5 games is enough time to figure out if either is the right one, especially if say Austin gets 3 and JM 2 or vice/versa. I personally would keep playing Austin if he appears to be playing well game by game. That is just being objective. JM screwed the pooch on his shot, so if Austin proves out as each game goes, then it' s time to keep him and trade out JM because this is a team that needs every pick it can muster across the board. Tough thing for an Ag to write, but true nonetheless.
I agree Tour but I'm not so sure that 5 games is enough time to figure out if either is the right one, especially if say Austin gets 3 and JM 2 or vice/versa. I personally would keep playing Austin if he appears to be playing well game by game. That is just being objective. JM screwed the pooch on his shot, so if Austin proves out as each game goes, then it' s time to keep him and trade out JM because this is a team that needs every pick it can muster across the board. Tough thing for an Ag to write, but true nonetheless.
Agreed... not enough time to assess with absolute certainty... if there ever is such a thing short of say 3 seasons. Even DA had most Browns fans fooled for a season.
But we can certainly better quantify the probabilities of each as a prospect in the remaining games.
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Forget drafting a QB first next year.
Paxton is a project player, and i'm not crazy about Goff.
I do like Connor Cook though, but fuck it, i'd want Laquon Treadwell or Bosa.
It sucks that there's not much SURE out of the park NFL talent in this next draft compared to other years.
My absolute DREAM scenario is that Cook falls some because of the other two guys being higher up and other stupid stuff. Draft a defensive guy (Bosa or Jaylon) and trade into the teens for Cook would honestly be a cornerstone to turn this team around. Cook is a guy who literally does everyone you want in a franchise QB, comes from a pro-style system and is a proven winner.
For the love of God though, DONT DRAFT HIM AT 22.
My absolute DREAM scenario is that Cook falls some because of the other two guys being higher up and other stupid stuff. Draft a defensive guy (Bosa or Jaylon) and trade into the teens for Cook would honestly be a cornerstone to turn this team around. Cook is a guy who literally does everyone you want in a franchise QB, comes from a pro-style system and is a proven winner.
For the love of God though, DONT DRAFT HIM AT 22.
That would almost assuredly be what they would do.
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I think they rank the QB's high because that's where they will be drafted
Most teams drafting in the top 10 usually need a QB
Teams with good QB's don't normally draft very high
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True, even if a tad axiomatic...
Importance of the position does inflate the value of prospects.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
True, even if a tad axiomatic...
Importance of the position does inflate the value of prospects.
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BUT, the QB is the engine that makes the car go. You can have shiny wheels and a killer stereo but that car aint moving without a working engine. You can get it towed to a new location but that doesn't mean you fixed the car. JRB
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"sniff"...that's BEAUTIFUL, MAN ! I've said stuff like that before, and I've said
that the QB is the steering wheel, and the oline is the engine. The Wr's and Rb's are the wheels...
anyways, on the idea of qb's.... if I were a GM, and high a very high draft pick, top pick, top five whatever....
and I had a chance to trade down for two lower first round picks...and I need a qb....
I would serious look at trading down a bit. It's so early - but I don't care if they trade down and pick
a qb or wr or elliot....just find those guys you need to add to your team to make it go.
If that is Bosa, and it may be.... just draft the kid, go qb in the second round and hope for the best.
If that second round qb was Hogan, you might very well win the lottery, so to speak.
Just find the right players and get them where you have to get them. But at qb, I see Hogan and Cook as
being the kind of qb's that would fit with the Browns. They both have that fire I look for.
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what? Goff and Paxton are now all of a sudden top 5 picks? When did that fucking happen? They were projected as mid to late 1st round at best, possibly 2nd round. Lynch is a project. We couldn't let him "sniff" the field next year or he'd never be the same. This is why I don't want a QB with the 1st pick, we always run em out before they're ready and they die horribly never to be the prospect everyone thought they would be.
Hey kid get in there and run for your life.
what? Goff and Paxton are now all of a sudden top 5 picks? When did that fucking happen? They were projected as mid to late 1st round at best, possibly 2nd round. Lynch is a project. We couldn't let him "sniff" the field next year or he'd never be the same. This is why I don't want a QB with the 1st pick, we always run em out before they're ready and they die horribly never to be the prospect everyone thought they would be.
Hey kid get in there and run for your life.
Where in the heck have you been? No offense, but I think you need to be following the game and upcoming draft a little more closely.Paxton is now considered the top QB in the draft and most mocks have us taking him at #1. Goff goes to San Francisco.
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what? Goff and Paxton are now all of a sudden top 5 picks? When did that fucking happen? They were projected as mid to late 1st round at best, possibly 2nd round. Lynch is a project. We couldn't let him "sniff" the field next year or he'd never be the same. This is why I don't want a QB with the 1st pick, we always run em out before they're ready and they die horribly never to be the prospect everyone thought they would be.
Hey kid get in there and run for your life.
Where in the heck have you been? No offense, but I think you need to be following the game and upcoming draft a little more closely.Paxton is now considered the top QB in the draft and most mocks have us taking him at #1. Goff goes to San Francisco.
Where in the heck have you been? No offense, but I think you need to be following the game and upcoming draft a little more closely.Paxton is now considered the top QB in the draft and most mocks have us taking him at #1. Goff goes to San Francisco.
No offense, but its almost 6 months till the draft....so who's really following it closely right now?.....
Someone may have Lynch as the #1 QB.....but some dont.....and it'll change and be debated for the next 6 months.....
Ill pay attention when I know where we are picking.....and who we get(and lose) in FA.....
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Most of the QB's in the draft have teams built for them, good o-line, awesome receivers, and bad competition. I do believe that QB's are over rated when compared to the NFL. Johnny Manziel, Brandon Weeden, JaMarcus Russel, and Joey Harrington were great in college, put up huge numbers and won multiple games. However the NFL has given them a huge dose of reality as far as their talents go.
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