Pettine satisfied with our effort

Westside Steve

Of course the Indianapolis Colts granted behind Matt Hasselbeck, and the Minnesota Vikings led by the great Bilgewater, both took it up the ass just as badly as we did.

To whatever extent that makes any difference.

WSS

Mudfly

@baconhound said:

Ahh back to normal. Thought you were starting to see the light.

Ahhhh.....nope......I just forgot to use pink......

@hoorta said:

Pettine is getting a subtle dig in on Farmer. He's saying he's doing the best he can with the talent he has available to him.

Haslam is going to have to make a choice which one he wants to keep- Ray or Mike.

Or Haslem may realize the job isnt done and is willing to read chapter three of the Farmer/Pettine saga....?

@d-bone said:

While the Browns might not have much future, some of their individual parts might, and those guys should be eager to use the next month as an audition for the rest of the league, or whoever happens to be running things there in the future.

Agreed.....some are auditioning to stay.....some will most certainly leave.....and we all will be watching to see who quits and who fights to the end.....

At this stage, I hope they at least give us, the fans, something.....anything.....just to keep us interested....

So, why not just play Johnny...and Bowe...and Bibbs...and Gilbert...just for shits and giggles.....and some outrageous plays too!

Got nothing to lose but another game, Right?

jrb12711

@d-bone said:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/12/07/brian-hartline-not-every-brown-was-working-his-hardest/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs
Brian Hartline: Not every Brown was working his hardest
Browns wide receiver Brian Hartline cited his desire for future employment yesterday, when he declined interview requests after a 37-3 loss to the Bengals.

After seeing his comments Monday, we can only imagine what the unfiltered version would have looked like.

Via Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain Dealer, Hartline was asked if all of his teammates were playing hard until the end of the embarrassing loss.

“I wouldn’t say 100 percent, but the majority of the guys [did],” he replied.

He admitted that his self-preservation yesterday was born out of frustration, saying: “I didn’t have anything positive to say. Dinged up, frustated.”

And today, he was willing to admit the obvious, saying it was: “one of most desolate games we’ve seen [in Cleveland] in recent memory.”

That there’s competition underscores the situation there, and having Johnny Manziel back under center may not necessarily buoy their spirits.

The rosy cheeked optimism of a 2-3 start has long since gone by the wayside, as seven straight losses will do to a team. And considering how long it’s been since the Browns have been competitive, it’s no wonder players don’t take a mercenary approach to the rest of the season.

While the Browns might not have much future, some of their individual parts might, and those guys should be eager to use the next month as an audition for the rest of the league, or whoever happens to be running things there in the future.

But ask people on this board and they'll tell you the guys are playing their hardest out there and Pettine hasn't totally lost control of this team. Despite players saying stuff like this week in and week out.

Mudfly

Saying "some" guys arent trying their hardest makes sense....

Saying "because" some guys arent trying their hardest means they've lost the team....doesnt.....

flyingfooldoug

@mudfly said:

Saying "some" guys arent trying their hardest makes sense....

Saying "because" some guys arent trying their hardest means they've lost the team....doesnt.....

That seems to be the FAs. At least most of them. Why the hell should they care? And getting a successful nfl coach takes about the same process as bringing up a player. GM too.

If a farmer plants a field of corn, gets 2 rows planted then fired for another farmer and he starts planting beans then fired after 2 rows and so on. You end up with a lot of good food but it gets ripe at varying times, takes more equipment and the farm ends up a mess. We have not once wait long enough to get a complete crop in the ground. Even if it's not the greatest producer, it's still better than the mess you had and makes it much easier to work long term.

jrb12711

@mudfly said:

Saying "some" guys arent trying their hardest makes sense....

Saying "because" some guys arent trying their hardest means they've lost the team....doesnt.....

We're just going to agree to disagree but I see it on the field and read between the lines of what a good amount of players are saying. I just don't see how someone doesn't correlate a teams effort being because in large part the coach doesn't have the locker room. I know the browns suck but Sunday's game was pathetic. It was not (IMO) guys trying hard but just being bad-it was guys half-assing it and going through the motions. There's a clear difference between the two in my book.

It'll come out in the wash sooner than later but I just don't see it the other way around. It's really hard for me to look at guys like the Williams x2, Whitner, Starks and Haden before he got hurt amongst other dudes and think they've regressed that badly, it just doesn't make sense.

jiggins7919

@mudfly said:

I havent watched the pressy yet...but watch the play....

Folks are saying Williams "gave up and quit" on the play....when in reality, he just released the WR assuming Gipson was there to take him....

I blame Gipson for not being there....(though you can see him running his ass off trying to get to the play too late)......and Williams reaction afterward pretty much seals thats what happend.....

In Pettine's press conference, after all the questions were answered, he specifically said, "Wait, I want to address the AJ Green touchdown play. Tramon should've had over the top help there, so that's what happened there." I'm paraphrasing there, so don't quote me exactly, but that was the gist of it. I've NEVER seen Pettine go out of his way to talk about a particular play, and he did it there. He wanted to make sure Tramon was "cleared", but at the same time he completely threw Gipson under the bus on that play. The thing is, when you look at where Gipson was lined up, how in the WORLD could he have gotten there in time? Our radio show even talked about it, and Wilhem said it would've been impossible for Gipson to get there, and the entire play doesn't make sense. We should've called a timeout when we noticed we weren't in the correct formation. We were also out of formation when Dalton ran that sneak in from the 3 or 4. Ugh.

Mudfly

@jiggins7919 said:
He wanted to make sure Tramon was "cleared", but at the same time he completely threw Gipson under the bus on that play.

I think it's obvious that the players were on different pages there.....and, as with ALL systems, players gotta make reads, then decisions, on the fly....and on this play they read it differently.....

I really think Pettine wanted to get Tramons back, because he's one of the few thats out there balling....and giving 100%....and doing more than he signed up for.....

So......with everyone screaming about Tramon, I think Coach tried to set things straight.....that Tramon aint the problem.....

Gipson on the other hand?......didnt get his $ and is now not playing well....Could it be injury?....or lack of effort?

calfoxwc

Kruger said the guys were playing hard. What he can't say, is

this defense is a clusterfook. It's like Pettine's defense was designed

on paper, but implementing it is so complex and subjective, that

mistakes are always going to happen. Just seems pitiful.

I figure the Browns could draft an all pro defensive player in the first round

the next seven drafts...

and this defense would still be a clusterfook.

Mudfly

@calfoxwc said:
Kruger said the guys were playing hard. What he can't say, is this defense is a clusterfook.

What he cant say is ...."I played well"....or....." I made more than one tackle"....or...."I made plays this year".....or...."I earned my $8 million salary".....

THATS what he cant say.....

calfoxwc

well, between last year, and this year, I can say it is NOT HIS FAULT.

The Browns would fare far better if they fired Oneil today, and went

with a base 4-3, and had Kruger as a DE.

This defense does not work. Kruger is not a guy that should be dropping back in

coverage all that often. I mean, seriously. I don't give a damn what Pettine's defense

says on paper.

Mudfly

@calfoxwc said:

The Browns would fare far better if they fired Oneil today, and went

with a base 4-3, and had Kruger as a DE.

Kruger is not a guy that should be dropping back in coverage all that often.

Kruger was a shit DE too.....does ANYONE realize he wasnt even a starter before we signed him?....4 years as a backup, then the Browns sign him up as the forth highest paid LB in the league and he WASNT EVEN A STARTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And if I hear ONE MORE TIME about this coverage shit Im gonna lose my mind....if he cant cover then he shouldnt be playing...

Oh wait....he's not anymore......He's now gone from 70 snaps a game to 24.....whats that tell ya?

Pettines & Oneills LB's in Buffalo learned the system and led the league in sacks......so why cant Kruger learn to do that?

calfoxwc

because Kruger doesn't have the quickness laterally to

cover. He should be asked to drop back into coverage often.

because Kruger doesn't have the quickness laterally to

cover. He should be asked to drop back into coverage often.

because Kruger doesn't have the quickness laterally to

cover. He should be asked to drop back into coverage often.

there, that should fix your wagon, Mud......

calfoxwc

and, in 2013, one of the top sackmeisters in the NFL...

was...

4. Mario Williams, who looked excellent last night when his Buffalo Bills took on the New York Giants, racked-up 13.0 sacks for 78 sack yards in 2013.
Read more at http://sportschatplace.com/nfl-picks/2014/08/04/top-ten-sack-leaders-of-the-2013-nfl-season#SX78FCc3W80PGH2e.99

and Mud, check this out about what Mario Williams (and Kruger is no Mario Williams)....

says about "still learning" the complex defense in Buffalo.

Their sacks plummetted via the complicated clusterfook.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000594427/article/mario-williams-says-hes-still-learning-bills-defense

It's been nearly two months since Mario Williams sounded off on his frustration with Rex Ryan's defense.

Two months later, he says nothing has changed.

"We're still doing the same thing," Williams told Vic Carucci of The Buffalo News this week, ahead of Sunday's critical showdown with the surging Texans.

The core complaint from Williams centers around a scheme that asks its pass rushers to frequently drop into coverage, leaving less opportunity to wreck the quarterback. He has a point after watching the Bills drop from a franchise-record 57 sacks in 2013 -- and a league-leading 54 last season -- to just 13 all year by their defensive linemen in 2015.

That's less than the 13.5 piled up alone by Texans behemoth J.J. Watt.

Williams admitted that he's still catching up to Ryan's complex playbook.

"It makes us switch up certain things that we do," Williams said Friday. "Now, we might have to do this, we might have to go that way and might not be in the same, as comfortable a position as we've been in previous years. But other than that, I don't think it makes it difficult. It's just a different look. It's a different feel for us."

Williams and his fellow high-priced sack artists -- Kyle Williams, Marcell Dareus and Jerry Hughes -- are earning about $50 million this season. None of them have more than three sacks on the year, though, after Mario had 14.5 sacks and Hughes had 10 in 2014.

Mario isn't the only Bills defender to express his displeasure with a defense that ranks 18th overall and 29th in takedowns. We're fed a weekly diet of hype over Ryan's "exotic" blitz packages, but "invisible" would serve as a better term during this up-and-down season.

The problems on defense only amplify questions about where Mario will play next year. The Bills can save $12.9 million against the cap by releasing him in the offseason -- a change of scenery he might be fine with.

Sounds pretty familiar, yes? I think it's true, Mud. When a defensive scheme is drawn up so complicated,

but realistically doesn't work on the field, it IS A CLUSTERFOOK.

And what happens every time you draft a defensive player? Wait a few years until maybe he doesn't have "miscommunications" anymore?

calfoxwc

So, Mario Williams and the defensive players are po'd and frustrated with their system that is so

convoluted and complex, that they are frustrated, and the defense is NOT WORKING.

and they might go elsewhere where an intelligent, simpler defense is the norm.

Extremely complex is not equal to "efficient".

I stand by what I said. The Browns are suffering the same frustration as the Buffalo Bills players are.

and the results are very similar. I rest my case, your honor.

Mudfly

@calfoxwc said:

because Kruger doesn't have the quickness laterally to

cover. He should be asked to drop back into coverage often.

Exactly what Im saying.....he isnt good enough.....and thats supposed to be Pettines fault???......Ok, if you say so......

Just remember.....Kruger had his best season EVER under Pettine and Oneill....

@calfoxwc said:

Their sacks plummetted via the complicated clusterfook. after Pettine left.....

FIFY....

calfoxwc

Just remember.....Kruger had his best season EVER under Pettine and Oneill.... Mud

***************************************

so what happened then? Last year, they didn't have the entire defense installed. It's that

complicated. This year, they probably have installed the entire clusterfook.

and the same thing has happened as the same in Buffalo. Too much. Pettine/Oneils'

defense has reached it's level of incompetence. It isn't the players. Mario Williams is still

in Buffalo, and look at the difference in sacks from 2013 and this year. Same player(s).

Mudfly

I disagree 100%....Ive watched and rewatched every Kruger play....he is doing NOTHING different this year then he did last year...

Same # and % of snaps rushing AND covering.....he's just making excuses cause he sucks.....THATS why he is on the bench...

So....instead of pretending like theres something there, why not show me what he's doing differently?.....show me how losing one on one battles EVERY week is the coaches fault......show me how Oneill prevented him from getting a sack on 300 rushes.....or how the system caused him to get blocked out of every running play....???

Its still football Cal....you know, get the man with the ball.....and he's not getting it done.....

I think he got sacks last year because our DB's bought him time....and teams blocked Sheard, instead of him....I say that because I went back and watched his 11 sacks again....and he earned 3 on his own......

Go back and watch last weeks game....our lines(both of em) are getting mauled nd pushed around.....that is muscle and effort, not scheme.....CB's are supposed to play man, but they are getting beat one on one....again, thats players not scheme....

The scheme isnt that hard....but it DOES require talent.....which, right now, is severely lacking....

ForeverCleveland

"I disagree 100%....Ive watched and rewatched every Kruger play....he is doing NOTHING different this year then he did last year..."

I think if our players had the JJ Watt mentality then their performances would be way better. Yes, he is physically gifted but his mentality to play hard in losing situations is admirable.

Mudfly

Starters Kruger and Mingo have combined for 9 tackles in the last 6 games...(embarrassing)

But BACK UPS Armonty and Orchard have 25 tackles in the same 6 games, but with less time and snaps.....

How is that possible if it's the coach????........because its not the coach.....it's just Kruger and Mingo sucking, while the 2 new guys are PLAYING.....