Obama and his speech in the Oval Office
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Good point, legacy, and probably something I'm guilty of myself. I'll have a go at describing, without trying to use technical terms, what people are thinking.
- What people who advocate 'common sense' gun restrictions want to avoid is anything that can fire a high frequency of bullets/rounds/whatever in a shot period of time. Like a 'machine gun' - I don't know the technical term.
- Also, the ability to fire off a lot of bullets over a longer period of time, so something that you can fire quite quickly, has a lot of bullets.
- Probably also something that would be worth restricting is spare magazines, clips or whatever you're calling it that you can drop out of the weapon and replace pretty quickly.
- The main point is, if you're worried about self defence, fine, get a gun that allows you to defend yourself in a hurry. I'm not an expert but I believe a pistol can hold something in the order of 6 or 7 bullets? Maybe 8 or 9. That's plenty to deter someone from whatever's going on, and also plenty to put down some crazy with a gun, and also plenty to fight off a gang (if they themselves don't have guns for some reason).
- There's no need, in self defence terms, to have what I know as a 'long arm' - a rifle, shotgun etc, something that's not exactly draw and fire quickly like a pistol. There's no need to put about 30 rounds in 5 seconds.
- There's no need to open carry your hunting rifle when dropping the kids off at school, or picking up some groceries.
That's all based on the assumption that having guns readily available for self defence makes sense, of course.
To be frank, the bigger problem is with stupid people, which won't be fixed by legislating on guns, that will just make it harder for them to exercise their stupidity on others. You have people who are so quick to anger because it's the only way they know how to deal with issues. Things escalate over trivial things and people get shot. For example:
I haven't been through all of them, but the few I have check out as reflective of the truth.
Good point, legacy, and probably something I'm guilty of myself. I'll have a go at describing, without trying to use technical terms, what people are thinking.
- What people who advocate 'common sense' gun restrictions want to avoid is anything that can fire a high frequency of bullets/rounds/whatever in a shot period of time. Like a 'machine gun' - I don't know the technical term.
Any weapon currently available without a significant background check and about a borderline exclusive price entry point of high taxes and fees only fires one round with each squeeze of the trigger. Fully automatic (squeeze and spray) are exceptionally difficult to obtain.
- Also, the ability to fire off a lot of bullets over a longer period of time, so something that you can fire quite quickly, has a lot of bullets.
A weapon that can take a 500lb elk from 800-1000 yards isn't going to have much trouble with humans. Yet it's easier to obtain (if you have the $$) than a handgun. Why? Because it isn't "scary" looking.
- Probably also something that would be worth restricting is spare magazines, clips or whatever you're calling it that you can drop out of the weapon and replace pretty quickly.
​Maybe moving to your point about self defense too quickly here, but I don't know how you limit these. If I am defending my home, I shouldn't have any restrictions on owning/using magazines. If I am defending myself outside of my home I think 2 spare magazines are reasonable if concealed properly (or the attempt is there). Walking/driving through an unfamiliar area where there is potentially trouble (again, this isn't me seeking out trouble vigilante-style as is portrayed in the media) I would like the ability to DEFEND myself meaning - neutralize a threat so that I am able to remove myself safely from the situation. This is important: stop the threat, get to safety.
Again if I'm at home, I'm gonna keep squeezing as long as I have a means to defend myself.
- The main point is, if you're worried about self defence, fine, get a gun that allows you to defend yourself in a hurry. I'm not an expert but I believe a pistol can hold something in the order of 6 or 7 bullets? Maybe 8 or 9. That's plenty to deter someone from whatever's going on, and also plenty to put down some crazy with a gun, and also plenty to fight off a gang (if they themselves don't have guns for some reason).
- There's no need, in self defence terms, to have what I know as a 'long arm' - a rifle, shotgun etc, something that's not exactly draw and fire quickly like a pistol. There's no need to put about 30 rounds in 5 seconds.
Again, if I'm defending my home, business, etc. this is absolutely what I want.
- There's no need to open carry your hunting rifle when dropping the kids off at school, or picking up some groceries.
Agreed. It's very silly. But, I shouldn't have to break down a hunting/sporting rifle into 30 pieces and lock it in three safes in my trunk to be able to drive to hunt either. This is why some of the "open carry of long rifles" exist, because some towns/cities have ordinances that require ridiculous handling/storage procedures if not.
That's all based on the assumption that having guns readily available for self defence makes sense, of course.
To be frank, the bigger problem is with stupid people, which won't be fixed by legislating on guns, that will just make it harder for them to exercise their stupidity on others. You have people who are so quick to anger because it's the only way they know how to deal with issues. Things escalate over trivial things and people get shot. For example:
Absolutely. I am guaranteed the right to defend myself and my family against these people.
1st, Thanks for the honest/sincere answer. Gonna respond to your points above in red &bold.
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I don't have to read about stories with a person armed with a gun saving lives I have an elderly neighbor who was able to save himself because of owning a gun. He had an intruder break out his bedroom window in the early morning hours and an intruder was attempting to enter when he yelled at the intruder he had a gun and the intruder yelled back that he had a gun as well. My elderly neighbor fired a couple shots toward the window and the intruder fled. When police arrived they found a can of mace and a roll of duct tape on the ground next to the window the intruder broke out. Keep your gun control laws pal, I will keep my second amendment rights which you don't have in England.
Do you know what we also don't have? Daily mass shootings and a homicide rate consistent with a third world shit hole.
But sure, cling on to that right to own a gun, it clearly means more to you than the lives of the literally tens of thousands of people killed by guns every year in your country.
Do you know what we also don't have? Daily mass shootings and a homicide rate consistent with a third world shit hole.
But sure, cling on to that right to own a gun, it clearly means more to you than the lives of the literally tens of thousands of people killed by guns every year in your country.
Yeah, but the rate has consistently fallen for 20+ years despite gun ownership increasing.
https://www.aei.org/publication/chart-of-the-day-more-guns-less-gun-violence-between-1993-and-2013/
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I did mention about having other weapons in the home. If you break in to someone's home they have every right to believe you're armed, you have no rights.
A shotgun is as bad or worse than a rifle if your concerned with Yosemite Sam firing rounds off willy nilly and hitting your sleeping neighbors.
A shotgun is as bad or worse than a rifle if your concerned with Yosemite Sam firing rounds off willy nilly and hitting your sleeping neighbors.
exactly.
That is a training issue which I strongly recommend people do. I am a shooting instructor.
That said, even without training, having the ability to potentially stop the threat is better than using the "not getting eaten by the bear" method of survival.
And again, yes. plenty of other professions & situations where the ability to remain calm and rely on training to perform under intense pressure is applicable: Trauma surgeons, firemen, airline pilots, search & rescue, EMTs, EOD (bomb squads) etc.
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Mass murder situations - where thered really no rhyme or reason to it- is a pretty recent phenomena. Perhaps the root causes ought to be examined.
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Mass murder situations - where thered really no rhyme or reason to it- is a pretty recent phenomena. Perhaps the root causes ought to be examined.
Mass murder situations - where thered really no rhyme or reason to it- is a pretty recent phenomena. Perhaps the root causes ought to be examined.
People don't want to address it because it is probably really complicated and just saying "it is the guns!" is easier than dipping into the root causes.
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So a crazy person walks into a movie theatre and sprays it with bullets from an AR-15, and we are worried about some law abiding citizen with a 9mm, sitting and watching the movie?
WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Legacy and Logic - you guys both seem to misunderstand one thing I advocated (and this may just be a 'me' thing rather than an 'anti-gun' thing):
If guns are going to be legal, of any kind, you should be free to have whatever kind you want in the home for home defence. So:
If I am defending my home, I shouldn't have any restrictions on owning/using magazines.
Agreed.
Walking/driving through an unfamiliar area where there is potentially trouble (again, this isn't me seeking out trouble vigilante-style as is portrayed in the media) I would like the ability to DEFEND myself meaning - neutralize a threat so that I am able to remove myself safely from the situation. This is important: stop the threat, get to safety.
Agreed, but if you're driving through a dodgy neighbourhood (maybe one of those fictional 'no-go zones'?) you can probably drive away quickly enough. Stopping and getting involved in a gun fight doesn't seem like the safest course of action.
For walking, yes, you might need to neutralise someone (or a couple of people) and run for safety, as you said. Does it take 30 bullets to do that?
A weapon that can take a 500lb elk from 800-1000 yards isn't going to have much trouble with humans. Yet it's easier to obtain (if you have the $$) than a handgun. Why? Because it isn't "scary" looking.
Sure, but how many mass shootings, or really any shootings, have there been with hunting rifles? Legislation against that is missing the point. I agree some people just want to ban 'scary looking' things, and I'm torn on that. I can see that if the practical application of a gun is no different to a handgun, why should it be banned? At the same time, open carry of a 'big scary gun' makes a non-negligible proportion of the public feel unsafe, and that leads to rising tensions.
I would certainly not be against open carry for hunting trips, that's just stupid. But when dropping timmy and sally off at ballet and little league, it's a bit unnecessary. Lock it in the boot trunk if you're on your way and you need to stop via somewhere where it's out of place. If you're going in to a hunting supply store nobody's going to bat an eye.
That whole thing though, should be common sense. It shouldn't even be a law, people should be smart enough to not carry a 'big scary gun' in to a supermarket or mcdonalds. Of course you have the right to, but why would you? You have the right to do all kinds of things, but people don't exercise those rights just because they can.
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Bam.
I've seen this before, and shockingly, it's using misleading information to reach its conclusion.
I could go in to the statistics underlying this, but it basically comes down to this:
In the US, violent crime is defined as murder/manslaughter, rape, robbery and assault.
In the UK, violent crime is defined as all of those things, along with any instances of any time someone felt a bit threatened, was pushed, 'jostled' is even in the definition - because, you know, we're british - regardless of whether there was intent or any harm done.
So, people are whiny bitches and a lot of 'assaults' get reported which actually aren't all that violent. This makes up the overwhelming majority of the total number of supposedly violent crimes in the UK.
So comparing like for like, ignoring the 'assaults' for the above reason, you find that rape and robbery are at about the same levels in the US and UK, but you're about 5 times more likely to be a victim of murder/manslaughter in the US.
I hope that helps clarify the situation.
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Yeah I think we're (me and you chris - won't speak for Logic) in roughly 95% agreement. Common sense would be remarkable and a true breath of fresh air. Instead we have lawyers.
Mass shootings w/ "traditional" hunting rifles: hard to say without really googling. My point was that the weapons used and reported as used are more about inciting and provoking fear than their capabilities.
For the walking / driving in a dodgy (gonna start using that word. I dig it) neighborhood my point is about preparedness for the unknown. Again the amount of bullets I *need* may only be 4. Or 6. Or 10. I'd prefer not to find that out if I was limited to 3 or 5 or 9. And yes staying in the car and driving away is option 1 always. Sometimes that's not feasible (breakdown, accident, victim of road rage, etc). As reliable and infallible as I believe my Glock's to be, semi-autos can and do jam. So i practice clearing jams (drop the mag, clear, load new mag, chamber a rd). Again I'd prefer not to be limited to the magazine in the gun if it jams. I know in about 1-2 seconds I can clear & reload if necessary.
Also these are all obviously what ifs and worst case scenarios. My goals of self defense and carrying a gun are that I *never* have to use it. Or leave the situation, call for help, contact law enforcement etc. But, people are shitheads so i make sure that I can do my best to get home safely and get my family home safely. Someone made the remark about law enforcement being minutes away when seconds count. Our law enforcement here is among the best, and that remark isn't a knock on them, but it is the truth. I'm not the type to be victimized if there's something I know I can prepare for. It's the same reason I always read before class, studied for exams, practiced dental procedures on fake/extracted teeth before on real patients, etc..
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Yep, common sense and level headedness would go a hell of a long way in these things. That starts with, what? Good education, acceptance of others, good parenting, imo.
Absent common sense in a lot of people, though, it falls on the government to try to legislate common sense in to people, and those *with* the common sense already see themselves being forced to jump through hoops to continue living their lives as they were.
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The only hunting rifle mass shooting that comes to mind is probably the first one. Charles Whitman.
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I hate getting jostled in dodgy neighborhoods
Pip pip cheerio. Jolly good show
Colour
Ja.brill Peppers - Cleveland Brown OldBrownsFan, on 02 Jun 2017 - 5:09PM said: "No you are not the work of the devil but you are deceived by the devil." Who's got it better than us? Nooooobody! -
I hate getting jostled in dodgy neighborhoods
Pip pip cheerio. Jolly good show
Colour
Neighbourhoods.
Nobody says pip pip. I have been known to say cheerio. And jolly good. Though, never good show.
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C'Mon you don't really say jolly good do you?
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C'Mon you don't really say jolly good do you?
C'Mon you don't really say jolly good do you?
Honestly, it comes out of my mouth more than it should.
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C'Mon you don't really say jolly good do you?
Honestly, it comes out of my mouth more than it should.
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I hate getting jostled in dodgy neighborhoods
Pip pip cheerio. Jolly good show
Colour
that was awesome.
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Shiite cunt though is my favorite british euphemism.
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nothing degrades another man like being called a Shiite cunt
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