Jonathan Paul Manziel
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So who thinks that Johnny was Pet's gu in the draft?
Who thinks he was Ray farmers guy?
Who thinks he was Jimmy's guy and the other two were bullied into pretending they were on board?
WSS
So who thinks that Johnny was Pet's gu in the draft?
Who thinks he was Ray farmers guy?
Who thinks he was Jimmy's guy and the other two were bullied into pretending they were on board?
WSS
Farmer's pick with Jimmy's blessing.
Zombo
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I don't think Manziel's success has as much to do with Pettine as it does with Johnny himself. That said, I'm not sure we would keep Johnny REGARDLESS of how he plays. What I mean is, say he plays really well. Throws are crisp, decisions are sharp, displays control of the offense while scoring some points. And suppose he does that for all four games, and really gets a few people salivating. That might just increase his trade value enough for a team (Cowboys maybe?) to make an offer we can't refuse. How many times has Johnny burned us? Can we really take a chance on him "figuring it out", or do we get what we can for him, and truly start over with another rookie? Your guess is as good as mine.
What I'd LIKE to see happen is for Johnny to continue to show progress, and him come back next year as the undisputed starter. I'd like to see Gordon back as well.
I don't think Manziel's success has as much to do with Pettine as it does with Johnny himself. That said, I'm not sure we would keep Johnny REGARDLESS of how he plays. What I mean is, say he plays really well. Throws are crisp, decisions are sharp, displays control of the offense while scoring some points. And suppose he does that for all four games, and really gets a few people salivating. That might just increase his trade value enough for a team (Cowboys maybe?) to make an offer we can't refuse. How many times has Johnny burned us? Can we really take a chance on him "figuring it out", or do we get what we can for him, and truly start over with another rookie? Your guess is as good as mine.
What I'd LIKE to see happen is for Johnny to continue to show progress, and him come back next year as the undisputed starter. I'd like to see Gordon back as well.
Seeing as qb play has not been a big issue but depth and FA complacency to be our bigger problems...trade for picks and get more youth. And that would still have a 2 year wait for real payoff. Short term solution? patience....it is a virtue.
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So who thinks that Johnny was Pet's gu in the draft?
Who thinks he was Ray farmers guy?
Who thinks he was Jimmy's guy and the other two were bullied into pretending they were on board?
WSS
So who thinks that Johnny was Pet's gu in the draft?
Who thinks he was Ray farmers guy?
Who thinks he was Jimmy's guy and the other two were bullied into pretending they were on board?
WSS
We really won't know the answer to that until somebody gets fired
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I don't think Manziel's success has as much to do with Pettine as it does with Johnny himself. That said, I'm not sure we would keep Johnny REGARDLESS of how he plays. What I mean is, say he plays really well. Throws are crisp, decisions are sharp, displays control of the offense while scoring some points. And suppose he does that for all four games, and really gets a few people salivating. That might just increase his trade value enough for a team (Cowboys maybe?) to make an offer we can't refuse. How many times has Johnny burned us? Can we really take a chance on him "figuring it out", or do we get what we can for him, and truly start over with another rookie? Your guess is as good as mine.
What I'd LIKE to see happen is for Johnny to continue to show progress, and him come back next year as the undisputed starter. I'd like to see Gordon back as well.
I don't think Manziel's success has as much to do with Pettine as it does with Johnny himself. That said, I'm not sure we would keep Johnny REGARDLESS of how he plays.
I'm no expert but that sounds like a bad plan to me.
WSS
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Why is everyone assuming Pett is "forced" to start Johnny, when he said last week, and all along, that he would get another chance?
Pett makes all decisions with the 53 he is given.
Are people really butthurt that Johnny got benched for lying to the team? And when his replacement played well in relief he sat another game. Hell, if McCown is still healthy, he might still be sitting.
Its the right team to start him. He got a chance to start a couple weeks an ago and HE blew that ... not Pett.
If he plays well down the stretch, that should be a credit to Pett and the staff, he wasnt holding Johnny back, Johnny was.
Z
Zombo said:
Why is everyone assuming Pett is "forced" to start Johnny, when he said last week, and all along, that he would get another chance?
Pett makes all decisions with the 53 he is given.
Are people really butthurt that Johnny got benched for lying to the team? And when his replacement played well in relief he sat another game. Hell, if McCown is still healthy, he might still be sitting.
Its the right team to start him. He got a chance to start a couple weeks an ago and HE blew that ... not Pett.
If he plays well down the stretch, that should be a credit to Pett and the staff, he wasnt holding Johnny back, Johnny was.
Z
I agree with both yours and Tour's post page 1. That may be a first. One thing I have a question about. Does a team have the right to enroll a player into the NFL substance abuse program if the player agrees with the team he needs that as a part of an overall rehab. program? Because even if he plays well and stays out of trouble now, the team will need to sit down at season's end and come up with a mutually agreed upon rehab/aftercare plan if they want to keep him going forward. At least if I am in the front office that would be the bottom line if I thought he really was my QB from here on out.
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Why is everyone assuming Pett is "forced" to start Johnny, when he said last week, and all along, that he would get another chance?
Pett makes all decisions with the 53 he is given.
Are people really butthurt that Johnny got benched for lying to the team? And when his replacement played well in relief he sat another game. Hell, if McCown is still healthy, he might still be sitting.
Its the right team to start him. He got a chance to start a couple weeks an ago and HE blew that ... not Pett.
If he plays well down the stretch, that should be a credit to Pett and the staff, he wasnt holding Johnny back, Johnny was.
Z
Zombo said:
Why is everyone assuming Pett is "forced" to start Johnny, when he said last week, and all along, that he would get another chance?
Pett makes all decisions with the 53 he is given.
Are people really butthurt that Johnny got benched for lying to the team? And when his replacement played well in relief he sat another game. Hell, if McCown is still healthy, he might still be sitting.
Its the right team to start him. He got a chance to start a couple weeks an ago and HE blew that ... not Pett.
If he plays well down the stretch, that should be a credit to Pett and the staff, he wasnt holding Johnny back, Johnny was.
Z
He was always going to start, after being named the starter. His imposed suspension for being stupid was designed to hold him accountable, but that was never going to be for ever. Now it's over, Manziel's back on track.
Whether or not it was originally *his* choice exclusively, I don't know, but I'm guessing that was a decision taken along with Farmer and maybe Haslam.
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I don't think Manziel's success has as much to do with Pettine as it does with Johnny himself. That said, I'm not sure we would keep Johnny REGARDLESS of how he plays. What I mean is, say he plays really well. Throws are crisp, decisions are sharp, displays control of the offense while scoring some points. And suppose he does that for all four games, and really gets a few people salivating. That might just increase his trade value enough for a team (Cowboys maybe?) to make an offer we can't refuse. How many times has Johnny burned us? Can we really take a chance on him "figuring it out", or do we get what we can for him, and truly start over with another rookie? Your guess is as good as mine.
What I'd LIKE to see happen is for Johnny to continue to show progress, and him come back next year as the undisputed starter. I'd like to see Gordon back as well.
Seeing as qb play has not been a big issue but depth and FA complacency to be our bigger problems...trade for picks and get more youth. And that would still have a 2 year wait for real payoff. Short term solution? patience....it is a virtue.
Seeing as qb play has not been a big issue but depth and FA complacency to be our bigger problems...trade for picks and get more youth. And that would still have a 2 year wait for real payoff. Short term solution? patience....it is a virtue.
It's difficult to argue that patience is needed, the problem is, most fans' patience has been slowly obliterated during the past 16 years. I think the real reason this season is so enraging is many of us hoped/thought that last year was a turning point. Hell, we were 7-4 and playing the kind of ball many people loved. We ran the ball effectively, had a hometown QB, and we still were going to get Gordon back. Things looked like they were FINALLY turning around, and it also appeared we had the coaching staff we needed.
Even after we lost the last five games, many fans still believed we would be on par for progress. I don't know many that thought the playoffs would be in reach because of our difficult schedule, but progress was certainly on the minds of many. And now with 4 games left, progress has left the building, and fans are struggling to grasp anything that looks like hope. Our talent is devoid of talent at virtually all positions. We don't do one single thing well, and we are on course for the top overall pick in the draft, without anything that resembles a #1 selection.
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Zombo said:
Why is everyone assuming Pett is "forced" to start Johnny, when he said last week, and all along, that he would get another chance?
Pett makes all decisions with the 53 he is given.
Are people really butthurt that Johnny got benched for lying to the team? And when his replacement played well in relief he sat another game. Hell, if McCown is still healthy, he might still be sitting.
Its the right team to start him. He got a chance to start a couple weeks an ago and HE blew that ... not Pett.
If he plays well down the stretch, that should be a credit to Pett and the staff, he wasnt holding Johnny back, Johnny was.
Z
I agree with both yours and Tour's post page 1. That may be a first. One thing I have a question about. Does a team have the right to enroll a player into the NFL substance abuse program if the player agrees with the team he needs that as a part of an overall rehab. program? Because even if he plays well and stays out of trouble now, the team will need to sit down at season's end and come up with a mutually agreed upon rehab/aftercare plan if they want to keep him going forward. At least if I am in the front office that would be the bottom line if I thought he really was my QB from here on out.
Unless, like I keep saying, it's just ass hole college kid behavior and there's no addiction at all. The rehab was for show.I agree with both yours and Tour's post page 1. That may be a first. One thing I have a question about. Does a team have the right to enroll a player into the NFL substance abuse program if the player agrees with the team he needs that as a part of an overall rehab. program? Because even if he plays well and stays out of trouble now, the team will need to sit down at season's end and come up with a mutually agreed upon rehab/aftercare plan if they want to keep him going forward. At least if I am in the front office that would be the bottom line if I thought he really was my QB from here on out.
Like Rock Hudson getting married.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
Manziel is just not that good
Doesn't matter what happens - we're picking QB in round 1 next year.
I'm not sold on Lynch -- he locks onto the first read and hasn't shown any ability to go thru a progression. Goff? We'll see.
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Unless, like I keep saying, it's just ass hole college kid behavior and there's no addiction at all. The rehab was for show.I agree with both yours and Tour's post page 1. That may be a first. One thing I have a question about. Does a team have the right to enroll a player into the NFL substance abuse program if the player agrees with the team he needs that as a part of an overall rehab. program? Because even if he plays well and stays out of trouble now, the team will need to sit down at season's end and come up with a mutually agreed upon rehab/aftercare plan if they want to keep him going forward. At least if I am in the front office that would be the bottom line if I thought he really was my QB from here on out.
Like Rock Hudson getting married.
WSS
Unless, like I keep saying, it's just ass hole college kid behavior and there's no addiction at all. The rehab was for show.
Like Rock Hudson getting married.
WSS
Stolen from a poster at A&M website, but pretty funny headline when you think about it.
http://www.theonion.com/graphic/johnny-manziel-hits-rock-bottom-after-waking-brown-52005
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Unless, like I keep saying, it's just ass hole college kid behavior and there's no addiction at all. The rehab was for show.I agree with both yours and Tour's post page 1. That may be a first. One thing I have a question about. Does a team have the right to enroll a player into the NFL substance abuse program if the player agrees with the team he needs that as a part of an overall rehab. program? Because even if he plays well and stays out of trouble now, the team will need to sit down at season's end and come up with a mutually agreed upon rehab/aftercare plan if they want to keep him going forward. At least if I am in the front office that would be the bottom line if I thought he really was my QB from here on out.
Like Rock Hudson getting married.
WSS
Unless, like I keep saying, it's just ass hole college kid behavior and there's no addiction at all. The rehab was for show.
Like Rock Hudson getting married.
WSS
For show?
How many famous people declare to the world they have a substance abuse problem and then spend 11 weeks in rehab for show?
Damn near ruined his image and career and you think he did it as a gag?
College kids drink all the time....players do too....why is it just Johnny that everyone is picking on?....it not as if he's the only high profile athlete in the world or the only first round QB or Heisman winner to hit the league.....
For show.....hahahahaha.......(what a fucking brilliant PR move THAT was)
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Who are his weapons? Outside of Benjamin we have the worst offensive players in the NFL. Who's going to be the play maker? We have Barnidge at thirty playing lights out and Benjamin. Duke Jr. And Crowell stink! We should have kept Turbin and Draugn. So when Johnny starts running for his life out there, Pettine will bench him again. Or tell the reporters at half time I wish he'd stay in the pocket.
There won't be any improvising on Pettine's watch. Look what improvising has done to Russell Wilson!
Bring Back Brownie has a point. Maybe Pettine was waiting for Manziel to do something stupid. But Jon Gruden thinks Manziel was treated unfairly. After all he wasn't doing anything illegal. Holding a bottle in front of a camera on your day off is a judgement call.
There's such a thing as being too critical. They knew what they were getting and drafted him anyway! Now they want him to change into St. John over night. He's 23, talented, cocky but used to be a winner. If they let him go to another team then maybe he will have a chance to prove he's still a winner.
If they keep him, which I doubt, they need to draft some weapons. No matter who plays QB for them next year they lack talent.
Who are his weapons? Outside of Benjamin we have the worst offensive players in the NFL. Who's going to be the play maker? We have Barnidge at thirty playing lights out and Benjamin. Duke Jr. And Crowell stink! We should have kept Turbin and Draugn. So when Johnny starts running for his life out there, Pettine will bench him again. Or tell the reporters at half time I wish he'd stay in the pocket.
There won't be any improvising on Pettine's watch. Look what improvising has done to Russell Wilson!
Bring Back Brownie has a point. Maybe Pettine was waiting for Manziel to do something stupid. But Jon Gruden thinks Manziel was treated unfairly. After all he wasn't doing anything illegal. Holding a bottle in front of a camera on your day off is a judgement call.
There's such a thing as being too critical. They knew what they were getting and drafted him anyway! Now they want him to change into St. John over night. He's 23, talented, cocky but used to be a winner. If they let him go to another team then maybe he will have a chance to prove he's still a winner.
If they keep him, which I doubt, they need to draft some weapons. No matter who plays QB for them next year they lack talent.
I stopped reading at "We should have kept Turbin and Draugn (sic)".
they're playing him to showcase him (if that's possible).
hope he does well enough that jones gives up a decent draft pick.
i'm sure that sunday night meeting went something like this:
haslam: sorry guys i fucked up and made the pick on manziel. do you think we should play him so we at least can get some teams interested in a trade?......cuz he's out of here.
farmer: yes
pettine: ok
I'm sure it went more like this:
Haslam: This is my franchise.
Pettine: I'm not playing Manziel.
Haslam: Get out.
Pettine: Okay, I'll play Manziel.
Farmer [texts Pettine]: Tht wuz a gud choice man
Pettine: Nevermind, I'm not playing Manziel.
Farmer [texts Pettine]: oh sht
Halsam: I'm serious, get the fuck out.
Pettine: Fine, I'll play Manziel.
Haslam: I'm going to St. Maarten, I'll see you fucks next year. Well, maybe not you Mike.
Farmer [texts Pettine]: daaaaaaamn sick burn
Shurmur: Keep battling.
I think you are guessing. You have zero evidence to support a single one of your "insights".
What is objectively apparent is that JM has developed as a QB under Pet and company. The only "holding back" was JM withholding his full effort throughout the 2014 season.
Then came 2015. The effort improved. It showed in an early effort against a mediocre team, but that game also showed performance gaps... as did the 2nd start. Then start #3 finally showed some real progress.
Finally came a benching designed for only one purpose... to develop JM as a person.
It'll be a while before we know how effective that was, but starting Sunday I think we will see it did him no harm as a football player.
What is objectively apparent is that Manziel improved under Flip and O'Connell. That's it.
I think Flip is truly adept at structuring his offense around his quarterback and doing everything possible to help him succeed. We saw it last year in Oakland and we saw it this year with both McCown and Manziel.
It could have been a fluke, but after taking what was essentially a project QB last year in Carr and getting probably the most success from any rookie QB of that class, then getting the year he got from McCown, then getting the performances he got from Manziel, I think it's safe to say that Flip is great for QB development, if anything.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
TC, Flip didn't structure the offense last year, he was QB coach. He maybe had a say, but didn't run the show.
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TC, Flip didn't structure the offense last year, he was QB coach. He maybe had a say, but didn't run the show.
TC, Flip didn't structure the offense last year, he was QB coach. He maybe had a say, but didn't run the show.
Right. But he was entirely credited with developing Carr, which is what landed him the job here. What I'm saying is that now that he's an OC, he's shown that he favors structuring the offense around his QB. That's why we're seeing better numbers from McCown and Manziel, while the rest of the offense seems to be in slight disarray.
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I still think Pettine wants nothing to do with him, while the FO says you will, and like it.
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Who are his weapons? Outside of Benjamin we have the worst offensive players in the NFL. Who's going to be the play maker? We have Barnidge at thirty playing lights out and Benjamin. Duke Jr. And Crowell stink! We should have kept Turbin and Draugn. So when Johnny starts running for his life out there, Pettine will bench him again. Or tell the reporters at half time I wish he'd stay in the pocket.
There won't be any improvising on Pettine's watch. Look what improvising has done to Russell Wilson!
Bring Back Brownie has a point. Maybe Pettine was waiting for Manziel to do something stupid. But Jon Gruden thinks Manziel was treated unfairly. After all he wasn't doing anything illegal. Holding a bottle in front of a camera on your day off is a judgement call.
There's such a thing as being too critical. They knew what they were getting and drafted him anyway! Now they want him to change into St. John over night. He's 23, talented, cocky but used to be a winner. If they let him go to another team then maybe he will have a chance to prove he's still a winner.
If they keep him, which I doubt, they need to draft some weapons. No matter who plays QB for them next year they lack talent.
I stopped reading at "We should have kept Turbin and Draugn (sic)".
they're playing him to showcase him (if that's possible).
hope he does well enough that jones gives up a decent draft pick.
i'm sure that sunday night meeting went something like this:
haslam: sorry guys i fucked up and made the pick on manziel. do you think we should play him so we at least can get some teams interested in a trade?......cuz he's out of here.
farmer: yes
pettine: ok
I'm sure it went more like this:
Haslam: This is my franchise.
Pettine: I'm not playing Manziel.
Haslam: Get out.
Pettine: Okay, I'll play Manziel.
Farmer [texts Pettine]: Tht wuz a gud choice man
Pettine: Nevermind, I'm not playing Manziel.
Farmer [texts Pettine]: oh sht
Halsam: I'm serious, get the fuck out.
Pettine: Fine, I'll play Manziel.
Haslam: I'm going to St. Maarten, I'll see you fucks next year. Well, maybe not you Mike.
Farmer [texts Pettine]: daaaaaaamn sick burn
Shurmur: Keep battling.
I think you are guessing. You have zero evidence to support a single one of your "insights".
What is objectively apparent is that JM has developed as a QB under Pet and company. The only "holding back" was JM withholding his full effort throughout the 2014 season.
Then came 2015. The effort improved. It showed in an early effort against a mediocre team, but that game also showed performance gaps... as did the 2nd start. Then start #3 finally showed some real progress.
Finally came a benching designed for only one purpose... to develop JM as a person.
It'll be a while before we know how effective that was, but starting Sunday I think we will see it did him no harm as a football player.
What is objectively apparent is that Manziel improved under Flip and O'Connell. That's it.
I think Flip is truly adept at structuring his offense around his quarterback and doing everything possible to help him succeed. We saw it last year in Oakland and we saw it this year with both McCown and Manziel.
It could have been a fluke, but after taking what was essentially a project QB last year in Carr and getting probably the most success from any rookie QB of that class, then getting the year he got from McCown, then getting the performances he got from Manziel, I think it's safe to say that Flip is great for QB development, if anything.
What is objectively apparent is that Manziel improved under Flip and O'Connell.
Or he improved simply because he sobered up and started trying.....
Are you suggesting he gave the same effort this year as last?......if so, thats not very objective.....
Its a little weird that you are crediting "coaching" with his improvement, while driving the train to fire em all......
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Just for the record tex I came up with that independently of anything that was in the onion.
And mud, yes for show.
Like checking in to AA immediately after being busted for DUI. Or enrolling in a drug treatment program right after being arrested for possession.
And one more time we have no idea of the details.
Speculation? Sure, just like anything you have to offer.
PS I know some alcoholics and a little short stint in Pennsylvania is like two aspirins for cancer.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
Just for the record tex I came up with that independently of anything that was in the onion.
And mud, yes for show.
Like checking in to AA immediately after being busted for DUI. Or enrolling in a drug treatment program right after being arrested for possession.
And one more time we have no idea of the details.
Speculation? Sure, just like anything you have to offer.
PS I know some alcoholics and a little short stint in Pennsylvania is like two aspirins for cancer.
WSS
And mud, yes for show.
Like checking in to AA immediately after being busted for DUI. Or enrolling in a drug treatment program right after being arrested for possession.
Well,,,,maybe if he was actually arrested for something.....or actually got a dui......
But to enter treatment for no reason?.....or cause TMZ posted a couple pics?
Nope......dont see that at all.......and dont see ANY precedent for it either...
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Just for the record tex I came up with that independently of anything that was in the onion.
And mud, yes for show.
Like checking in to AA immediately after being busted for DUI. Or enrolling in a drug treatment program right after being arrested for possession.
And one more time we have no idea of the details.
Speculation? Sure, just like anything you have to offer.
PS I know some alcoholics and a little short stint in Pennsylvania is like two aspirins for cancer.
WSS
Just for the record text I came up with that independently of anything that was in the onion.
And mud, yes for show.
Like checking in to AA immediately after being busted for DUI. Or enrolling in a drug treatment program right after being arrested for possession.
And one more time we have no idea of the details.
Speculation? Sure, just like anything you have to offer.
PS I know some alcoholics and a little short stint in Pennsylvania is like two aspirins for cancer.
WSS
He was there for almost three months wasn't he?
Seems like it was the entire off season from January up until OTAs.
Not commenting on the why, or the result, but that seems like a healthy stint.
Z
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What is objectively apparent is that Manziel improved under Flip and O'Connell.
Or he improved simply because he sobered up and started trying.....
Are you suggesting he gave the same effort this year as last?......if so, thats not very objective.....
Its a little weird that you are crediting "coaching" with his improvement, while driving the train to fire em all......
Or he improved simply because he sobered up and started trying.....
Are you suggesting he gave the same effort this year as last?......if so, thats not very objective.....
Its a little weird that you are crediting "coaching" with his improvement, while driving the train to fire em all......
I have never once advocated for firing them all. I've been vocal about the opposite. Failure does not equal firesale, we need to find out what the problem areas are and fix those, rather than starting over from scratch.
The problem is game management, ill preparedness, players that don't care anymore and aren't buying into the message, and benching players for high school reasons.
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