Kruger Knows What You're Feeling Mario
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2.5 sacks thru 13 games from the team's sack specialist is pathetic.
Is it easy to sack people in coverage or did Mario Williams have a legit scheme-induced gripe? If you understand the point of the article - you understand the same exact drop off in sack volume.
Flug, your typically one of the better posters on this board but this post leaves me scratching my head.Is it easy to sack people in coverage or did Mario Williams have a legit scheme-induced gripe? If you understand the point of the article - you understand the same exact drop off in sack volume.
What does Mario Williams have to do with Paul Kruger?
What does Rex Ryan have to do with Pettine?
What does the Buffalo Bills have to do with the Cleveland Browns?
Two things that will define you: Your determination when you have nothing. Your attitude when you have everything. - Mike McCartney -
Well....you know Im happy to take this one on......
Not sure why you're trying to lay Buffalo and Rexy's problems on Pettines back, considering Buffalo set their sack record at 57 with Pettine and NOW they have 19....heck of a drop off.....
1) This is an old article that keeps making the rounds. Id first point out that is is a misnomer to say Pettine and Rexy have the same D's. Rexy is running a 4-3 in Buffalo, while Pettine ran his hybrid multi front 3-4 there and here...
2) Williams is complalining about frequently having to drop into coverage. Id point out the he is a 4-3 DE and Kruger is a 3-4 OLB.....and there IS a difference....(plus, Wiiliams is a heck of a pass rusher and Kruger isnt).....
- 2013(under Pettine)....Williams dropped into coverage 7 times the WHOLE season....
- 2014............................Williams dropped into coverage 13 times the whole season....
- 2015............................Williams dropped into coverage 20 time so far....
So.....CLEARLY.....Rexy is having him cover WAY more then Pettine did, but still only 20 times(just over once a game)(whiny)
Kruger has the EXACT same #'s he had in 2013 & 2012....so it's not like he's fallen off. He's had one good season ever(in terms of sacks at least) and that was last year under Pettine.....the other 6 years he's played, he's basically sucked......and, LAST YEAR, he only had 11 sacks and nothing else.....terrible against the run......
NOW.....lets look at Krugers coverage(Ive posted this several times, but it seems not to be sinking in)......
- 2012(Baltimore)....Kruger dropped into coverage 97 times or 6.0 times per game....
- 2013(Chud)...........Kruger dropped into coverage 109 times or 6.8 times per game....
- 2014(Pettine)........Kruger dropped into coverage 65 times or 4.0 times per game...
- 2015(Pettine)........Kruger dropped into coverage 58 times or 4.4 times per game...
And the facts dont lie.....Kruger is covering LESS now than he ever has.....and whats happening in Buffalo is NOT what happened in Buffalo when Pettine was there.....Plain and simple....
Now,.....Please.....Stop making up stories Cal.....I thought you were more objective than that.....
What changed from last year???.........
1) Sheard isnt pushing the other side, which got Kruger 4 sacks last year......
2) He;s getting blocked out. Last year 2 were unblocked sacks.....(there's 6)....
3) Our DB's are not defending well, meaning the opposing QB's are not holding the ball....meaning not enough time for Kruger to get er done.....
4) Finally.....his snaps have now been cut drastically....WHY???.....cause Orchard and Armonty are getting to the QB and 2 and 3 times the efficiency that Kruger is....and they can do it within this system, while Kruger apparently cannot not...
OK, I answered your question "what has changed?"....so my question is....WHAT CHANGES when Armonty goes in ????
Buffalo is not Cleveland....Rexy is not Pettine.....A 4-3 DE is not a 3-4 OLB....and Paul Kruger aint no Mario Williams....
Buffalo runs a 3-4 with Dareus on the Nose, Kyle Williams played one 5 technique prior to IR and someone else Wynn/Carrington played the other side. Their 4 LBers are: OLB Mario Williams (who complained about covering people downfield), Nigel Bradham (ILB), Preston Brown(ILB), and Jerry Hughes (OLB). Every once in a while like us they'll deviate from their base.
And wrong, the pioneer of this defense that can't tackle anybody is Rex Ryan without the Revis and Cromartie back end.
Kruger has the same complaints Mario has - purpose of the article.
When Mario was in the first year of Pett's defense - he a good sack volume just like Kruger had. It was the second year of it when full install meant interrupting instincts with hesitate and doubt. Buffalo is in year 2 of Rex Ryan Defense just ;like we are and the brakes have been slammed Mud.
I also noticed how important it was for you to leave out Kruger had 4.5 sacks in the post season punctuated with a Superbowl Championship against playoff caliber competition, which helped him write his own ticket in FA following his best extract of football against his highest level of competition in a world where timing is everything.
Buffalo runs a 3-4 with Dareus on the Nose, Kyle Williams played one 5 technique prior to IR and someone else Wynn/Carrington played the other side. Their 4 LBers are: OLB Mario Williams (who complained about covering people downfield), Nigel Bradham (ILB), Preston Brown(ILB), and Jerry Hughes (OLB).
And wrong, the pioneer of this defense that can't tackle anybody is Rex Ryan without the Revis and Cromartie back end.
Kruger has the same complaints Mario has - purpose of the article.
Well...Buffalo and the rest of the world think they run a 4-3 and that Williams is a DE....weird....
Plus......You're still ignoring the numbers Fluges.....look at the coverage #'s.....those are stats not opinion....
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Flug, your typically one of the better posters on this board but this post leaves me scratching my head.Is it easy to sack people in coverage or did Mario Williams have a legit scheme-induced gripe? If you understand the point of the article - you understand the same exact drop off in sack volume.
What does Mario Williams have to do with Paul Kruger?
What does Rex Ryan have to do with Pettine?
What does the Buffalo Bills have to do with the Cleveland Browns?
Flug, your typically one of the better posters on this board but this post leaves me scratching my head.
What does Mario Williams have to do with Paul Kruger?
What does Rex Ryan have to do with Pettine?
What does the Buffalo Bills have to do with the Cleveland Browns?
Just another effort to discredit Pettine....but without any stats or facts.....just the same innuendo weve been hearing for weeks, without any backing....
Probably the reason he's using the Buffalo article to back his argument, because there are no facts, stats or articles relating to Cleveland that will support this Kruger coverage argument....
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Another thing I don't understand is why does Pettine get the blame for Kruger's poor performance on the field, yet he doesn't get any credit for Kruger's career season in 2014?
Makes no sense.
Two things that will define you: Your determination when you have nothing. Your attitude when you have everything. - Mike McCartney -
Another thing I don't understand is why does Pettine get the blame for Kruger's poor performance on the field, yet he doesn't get any credit for Kruger's career season in 2014?
Makes no sense.
Another thing I don't understand is why does Pettine get the blame for Kruger's poor performance on the field, yet he doesn't get any credit for Kruger's career season in 2014?
Makes no sense.
Right.....and the same can be said for many other players......it's called "an agenda"......
Lynch mob mentality is rarely rational....
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someone LOVES Paul Kruger thread 2014
http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=31036
Paul Kruger signs 2013 thread. Miktoxic predicts Raven demise.
"You see the Rams are still thinking that they are playing Tony Dorsett" -Jim Brown 1978 -
Another thing I don't understand is why does Pettine get the blame for Kruger's poor performance on the field, yet he doesn't get any credit for Kruger's career season in 2014?
Makes no sense.
Another thing I don't understand is why does Pettine get the blame for Kruger's poor performance on the field, yet he doesn't get any credit for Kruger's career season in 2014?
Makes no sense.
People read and see what they want to see. For example, Mud never wanted people to see Kruger's 4.5 sacks in the post season extract of best football against best/playoff competition so he made sure he sure he didn't share that with his facts interestingly enough.
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someone LOVES Paul Kruger thread 2014
http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=31036
Paul Kruger signs 2013 thread. Miktoxic predicts Raven demise.
someone LOVES Paul Kruger thread 2014
http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=31036
Paul Kruger signs 2013 thread. Miktoxic predicts Raven demise.
wow, thanks rich for pulling that up.
makes me feel bad for calling you a stooler's troll all these years.
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You're still ignoring the numbers Fluges.....but I didnt expect anything different.....
Show me where Kruger covers more.....or how the D changed this year to make him worse....or why Armonty and Orchard can get to the QB, while Kruger cant....
And I didnt "not share" anything....I compared 16 game seasons so the numbers stacked fairly....
Yeah...Kruger had 4 post season sacks....on a Super Bowl team where he was surrounded by TOP quality players.....he NEVER saw a double team, so life was good that particular year....(funny how Baltimore never thought he was good enough to start)
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Another thing I don't understand is why does Pettine get the blame for Kruger's poor performance on the field, yet he doesn't get any credit for Kruger's career season in 2014?
Makes no sense.
Right.....and the same can be said for many other players......it's called "an agenda"......
Lynch mob mentality is rarely rational....
Right.....and the same can be said for many other players......it's called "an agenda"......
Lynch mob mentality is rarely rational....
But insinuating a head coach that has led us to 3-15 in our last 18 games where 5 of the last 6 games we gave up over 30 points is gotta keep material is rational? Good luck with that...
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
You're still ignoring the numbers Fluges.....but I didnt expect anything different.....
Show me where Kruger covers more.....or how the D changed this year to make him worse....or why Armonty and Orchard can get to the QB, while Kruger cant....
And I didnt "not share" anything....I compared 16 game seasons so the numbers stacked fairly....
Yeah...Kruger had 4 post season sacks....on a Super Bowl team where he was surrounded by TOP quality players.....he NEVER saw a double team, so life was good that particular year....(funny how Baltimore never thought he was good enough to start)
You're still ignoring the numbers Fluges.....but I didnt expect anything different.....
Show me where Kruger covers more.....or how the D changed this year to make him worse....or why Armonty and Orchard can get to the QB, while Kruger cant....
And I didnt "not share" anything....I compared 16 game seasons so the numbers stacked fairly....
Yeah...Kruger had 4 post season sacks....on a Super Bowl team where he was surrounded by TOP quality players.....he NEVER saw a double team, so life was good that particular year....(funny how Baltimore never thought he was good enough to start)
As much as I love what I feel Nate can be as a player, there is little truth to this statement aside from the San Fran game.
Monty and Orchard have been up and down at applying pressure this season. Which, is to be expected.
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Right.....and the same can be said for many other players......it's called "an agenda"......
Lynch mob mentality is rarely rational....
But insinuating a head coach that has led us to 3-15 in our last 18 games where 5 of the last 6 games we gave up over 30 points is gotta keep material is rational? Good luck with that...
But insinuating a head coach that has led us to 3-15 in our last 18 games where 5 of the last 6 games we gave up over 30 points is gotta keep material is rational? Good luck with that...
Never said he was "gotta keep"......stop trying to twist and, for once, try to actually consider what is said....
But....for like the 50th time, you still haven't backed or answered one single question, stat or point....
Just blah blah blah, with zero actual fact or content....Kruger sucks, case closed.
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You're still ignoring the numbers Fluges.....but I didnt expect anything different.....
Show me where Kruger covers more.....or how the D changed this year to make him worse....or why Armonty and Orchard can get to the QB, while Kruger cant....
And I didnt "not share" anything....I compared 16 game seasons so the numbers stacked fairly....
Yeah...Kruger had 4 post season sacks....on a Super Bowl team where he was surrounded by TOP quality players.....he NEVER saw a double team, so life was good that particular year....(funny how Baltimore never thought he was good enough to start)
As much as I love what I feel Nate can be as a player, there is little truth to this statement aside from the San Fran game.
Monty and Orchard have been up and down at applying pressure this season. Which, is to be expected.
As much as I love what I feel Nate can be as a player, there is little truth to this statement aside from the San Fran game.
Monty and Orchard have been up and down at applying pressure this season. Which, is to be expected.
Up or down?.....sure.......while Kruger has been down the whole time....
No matter how you slice it, Armonty and Orchard get home more than twice as often as Kruger does....
In the same system.....with the same coaches.....etc
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flugs there is no doubt the record sucks and pettine has to assume accountability BUT does that mean clean house? i mean look at our record with coaches. hire/fire. 1 year, 2 years? really??
so we clean house rinse and repeat how many times until you give a guy a chance through how many drafts, through injuries, through young player's growth, through finding a friggin QB, through dealing with busts and bad FA signings......... hell what 'acclaimed' coach would even set foot in cleveland with their record of hiring/firing? that's right, none.
that's why i'm thinking haslam is going to deflect and debunk all the naysayers and let pettine ride out his contract and decide then, NOT now, whether to keep him or let him go. i mean what's another year of riding through turbulence when that's all we've been doing for over 2 decades?
and as usual be careful what you wish for you holmgren lovers.
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flugs there is no doubt the record sucks and pettine has to assume accountability BUT does that mean clean house? i mean look at our record with coaches. hire/fire. 1 year, 2 years? really??
so we clean house rinse and repeat how many times until you give a guy a chance through how many drafts, through injuries, through young player's growth, through finding a friggin QB, through dealing with busts and bad FA signings......... hell what 'acclaimed' coach would even set foot in cleveland with their record of hiring/firing? that's right, none.
that's why i'm thinking haslam is going to deflect and debunk all the naysayers and let pettine ride out his contract and decide then, NOT now, whether to keep him or let him go. i mean what's another year of riding through turbulence when that's all we've been doing for over 2 decades?
and as usual be careful what you wish for you holmgren lovers.
.... hell what 'acclaimed' coach would even set foot in cleveland with their record of hiring/firing? that's right, none.
If they fire Pettine, there is not a single coach worth his salt that would come here and accept a 2 year deal to make this team a winner.....not a single one.....
So....fire away and then get ready for 5 more years of shit.......(along with another 2.5 HC's)
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.... hell what 'acclaimed' coach would even set foot in cleveland with their record of hiring/firing? that's right, none.
If they fire Pettine, there is not a single coach worth his salt that would come here and accept a 2 year deal to make this team a winner.....not a single one.....
So....fire away and then get ready for 5 more years of shit.......(along with another 2.5 HC's)
If they fire Pettine, there is not a single coach worth his salt that would come here and accept a 2 year deal to make this team a winner.....not a single one.....
So....fire away and then get ready for 5 more years of shit.......(along with another 2.5 HC's)
Cowher, Gruden and Dungy are all buying houses in Cleveland. For the Dungy lovers.....he was quoted this week as saying he wouldn't have drafted Manziel and he wouldn't want that distraction in his locker room. So for the Dungy lovers, say goodbye to JFF should that rumor come true.
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someone LOVES Paul Kruger thread 2014
http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=31036
Paul Kruger signs 2013 thread. Miktoxic predicts Raven demise.
someone LOVES Paul Kruger thread 2014
http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=31036
Paul Kruger signs 2013 thread. Miktoxic predicts Raven demise.
yup, I was very high on Kruger based off what I saw him do going around the corner for Blt. I saw some of that dropoff in 13 but I though nah he's just getting used to being a legit full time 3-4 OLB'er. He'll get it together. Next year same thing, he's adjusting to a new scheme under Pettine..he's starting to show some signs of life but not what we expect out of 8m in salary blah blah blah.
I'm done now. I'm seeing the EXACT same technique out of him as I did in 13. He hasn't refined his pass rushing skillset even ONE iota. That to me is a red flag about a player. He's counting the days he can go back to Utah with a fat retirement stash and have fun with his stock blonde wife. Can't hate on him for that but I don't want that in Cleveland anymore.
This is also why I've gotten off the Bosa bandwagon to an extent even though he seems to be more serious about his craft. I'm just worried he'll be another coasting player collecting a paycheck from us.
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If they fire Pettine, there is not a single coach worth his salt that would come here and accept a 2 year deal to make this team a winner.....not a single one.....
So....fire away and then get ready for 5 more years of shit.......(along with another 2.5 HC's)
Cowher, Gruden and Dungy are all buying houses in Cleveland. For the Dungy lovers.....he was quoted this week as saying he wouldn't have drafted Manziel and he wouldn't want that distraction in his locker room. So for the Dungy lovers, say goodbye to JFF should that rumor come true.
So for the Dungy lovers, say goodbye to JFF should that rumor come true.
i think jerry jones just raised his stakes in the manziel to dallas trade rumours considering their pathetic backup QB play and their ouster from the playoffs...........again.
it will get very interesting come the end of the year if manziel lights it up.
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You're still ignoring the numbers Fluges.....but I didnt expect anything different.....
Show me where Kruger covers more.....or how the D changed this year to make him worse....or why Armonty and Orchard can get to the QB, while Kruger cant....
And I didnt "not share" anything....I compared 16 game seasons so the numbers stacked fairly....
Yeah...Kruger had 4 post season sacks....on a Super Bowl team where he was surrounded by TOP quality players.....he NEVER saw a double team, so life was good that particular year....(funny how Baltimore never thought he was good enough to start)
Yeah...Kruger had 4 post season sacks....on a Super Bowl team where he was surrounded by TOP quality players.....he NEVER saw a double team, so life was good that particular year....(funny how Baltimore never thought he was good enough to start)
He's never seen one single double team here in Cleveland either, so what changed? My opinion is that he was bigger and stronger in Blt and that made up to some extent for his deficit in passrushing skills.
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You're still ignoring the numbers Fluges.....but I didnt expect anything different.....
Show me where Kruger covers more.....or how the D changed this year to make him worse....or why Armonty and Orchard can get to the QB, while Kruger cant....
And I didnt "not share" anything....I compared 16 game seasons so the numbers stacked fairly....
Yeah...Kruger had 4 post season sacks....on a Super Bowl team where he was surrounded by TOP quality players.....he NEVER saw a double team, so life was good that particular year....(funny how Baltimore never thought he was good enough to start)
You're still ignoring the numbers Fluges.....but I didnt expect anything different.....
Show me where Kruger covers more.....or how the D changed this year to make him worse....or why Armonty and Orchard can get to the QB, while Kruger cant....
And I didnt "not share" anything....I compared 16 game seasons so the numbers stacked fairly....
Yeah...Kruger had 4 post season sacks....on a Super Bowl team where he was surrounded by TOP quality players.....he NEVER saw a double team, so life was good that particular year....(funny how Baltimore never thought he was good enough to start)
He complained about it. you read everything but you magically missed that? Just last week, there's a replay of Armonty Bryant covering Anquan Boldin while we're thanking our lucky stars the QB was only Blaine Gabbert.
Mud, the parallels of drop off in sack volumes for both Mario and Kruger by 10 sacks in season #2 of Ryan/Pett final install have both edge rushers fielding similar complaints.I know you tried to tell me Buffalo played 4-3 but I corrected that by naming all 4 LBers and who the 3 who began the year up front.
If things are as flawless as you think here - why so many 2nd year slumps in the system starting with Haden week 1 (and not getting any better vrs Oakland's rookie a few weeks later before getting injured), Gipson, Whitner, K'Wuan Williams, Craig Robertson (who enjoyed his best year at the end of 2014), even our best 2 gap linemen John Hughes, while Kirksey still looks to be on a learning curve. Hopefuls to grow into positions like Carder and Bademosi and even Solomon - just didn't develop. Is it the teachers or just a bunch of really bad students?
Offensively, Benjamin, Barnidge and all the QBs enjoyed massive improvements so their position coaches deserve my praise.I never thought Schwartz was a bad football player or run blocker in particular when we never had as much trouble running outside of tackle as we did inside of tackle prior to 2014. Not only that, but the zbs at Cal was what made him a 2nd round prospect so returning to that comfort zone should have brought out the best in him in 2014 and he's played very well again in 2015. One is only surprised about that if they sucked in the past. Greco came off his best season in 2014 but 2015 doesn't look nearly as good to me outside of last week. Bitonio, who you and I agreed was a great pick had a noticeable soph slump while I've seen Joe Thomas play much better football than I have in 2015 - same with Mack even though I get the injury excuse to an extent. Crow averaged 5.4 yards a carry for about 6-8 weeks in 2014 and he's had a big slump until last week's measuring stick. Gabriel had a gigantic soph slump prior to the post traumatic stress collisions caused by St Louis' secondary.
Our Special Teams continuity of flags during the returns and/or kicks getting blocked at the worst of times or roughing a punter after we held Oakland to a rare 3 and out - haven't really given me the silver linings from this staff to cling to. I'm trying to give you examples of what I think about what Pettine's hand selected teachers for progress in Cleveland. We're not 3-15 in our last 18 games simply by accident. Way too many 2nd year slumps on the defense and in our running game coupled with a STs unit that remains frustrating to watch in Tabor's 3rd year here.
What's not rational about thinking we deserve so much better - especially someone as loyal and devoted as you are? You deserve better Mud and that doesn't make you a bad fan or bad guy for raising your expectation above 1999 for 2015 and 2016. When I'm not feeling good about a part of this team - I go find me some Mudfly to read and so does a lot of people in here. I never wanted to be feeling this frustrated but I can't get myself to pretend we're all set with the trend at hand right now my man.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!"
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