Jonathan Paul Manziel
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I was always a guy who "hoped" for the best with Johnny, but I was never high on drafting him, and I didn't give him much of a chance after his troubles as a rookie. But after all the drama, the suspensions, the "incidents"...I have to say that my opinion on his skills is changing.
Johnny didn't play awesome yesterday, but what he did was prove that the moment wasn't too big for him. He was prepared, knew the cadence, and we had zero pre-snap penalties...not easy to do in Seattle, and made further difficult with Greco's injury. He was under heavy pressure, yet he didn't abandon the pocket early, and he kept his head on the receivers. He made several inaccurate throws that were dropped by sub-par receivers, but even he said that he could've thrown the ball better. The opening 15 play drive that resulted in a touchdown was a thing of beauty. I believe it was the first touchdown that Seattle had given up in their last 21 drives.
What stood out to me was the severe lack of talent surrounding our quarterback. Where is the guy that can break a tackle and get into the end zone? The player that can adjust to a ball that's not thrown perfectly? The holes for our RB to burst through when we're in the red zone?
And that's just on offense. What does Johnny look like playing along side a defense that can get the ball back on 3rd down? A defense that can generate a couple of turnovers? A defense that can force FG's instead of perpetually conceding 7?
Johnny isn't perfect, so I hope nobody out here thinks I'm proclaiming him the savior of our franchise. What I AM saying is, Johnny is getting better. He doesn't look lost out there, in fact, he looks dangerous. He has a quick release, plenty of arm for intermediate routes, and he looks quicker this year. In fact, I would argue that he doesn't run nearly enough. His accuracy wasn't great during this past game, but it was still good considering the constant pressure he was under. What I don't know, and what nobody CAN know, is whether or not Johnny can remain mature enough to avoid getting into trouble.
I don't want to trade him, I don't want to draft a QB early in 2016, and I want to build a competent team around him.
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J.Football has changed my mind, also. I don't think he will ever be Drew Brees, but with a good offensive line and good receivers, I think he can be a decent qb....especially when you need to improvise. At this point I would like to see Pettine gone, but keep Manziel.
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Regarding talent level on O, I honestly think we're set for at least a winning season/playoff push, if not superbowl, with each of these guys playing to their ability:
Thomas - HOF-in-5
Bitonio - sophomore slump?
Mack - yeah he might want out, so it's over to Erving...!
Greco - solid, unspectacular
Schwartz - as far as right tackles go, top tier; side note, a true browns success story of draft and develop
Barnidge - where did he come from?
Benjamin - not as a #1, but that's not what he's built for. Like schwartz, draft and develop
Johnson - already one of the better pass catching backs around
Gordon (suspension pending) - he's the #1 Benjamin needs, if he can get on the field consistently.
We need to either remember how to run block or find a power back who can find the holes if they're there.
Big question marks on Manziel, and depth. Another TE is needed, as Dray has shown a propensity to be a revolving door in blocking and have revolving hands when receiving.
Edit: Pryor should have caught the slant pass on the first drive. Needs work, but could be very useful.
Hartline, Hawkins & Gabriel - sure, slot guys/WR3.
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i liked to see him on the sidelines talking to his offensive linemen and watching replays. having him under center also seems to open up more holes for crowell, since defenses have to watch both Manziel and the running back. It would be nice to draft a big WR that can win 1 on 1 battles or a TE that can actually block. I think the depth at QB is there, with McCown and either Davis or Shaw backing up Manziel. The Browns need more talent at CB, secondary is not the same without Haden and Tramon is slowing down.
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I'm definitely encouraged and I'm excited to see how he improves each week. There's no doubt in my mind if he can put it all together he can play at a high level in the league, but that's a HUGE if of course. Of course, he's still got areas to get better at which I'm hoping to see the next two weeks. He has to continue to improve on the field blitz against pressure and throwing it away, but those both fall heavily into the "rookie" aspects of the position.
Bottom line though is Manziel can play, and I mean really play the position which is something I haven't seen in a long time here.
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I think Johnny can do well if we are able to run the ball and create more play action opportunities. He looked good in the game where Crow ran well.
I don't think he will ever be the guy you sit back and let him gun sling the whole game.
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Manziel did OK - given the opponent and venue. He didn't have much help, but did make some poor reads and decisions - also threw high and behind on some of the longer throws.
We have two more games yet though, so let's see what happens after that. If he beats Pittsburgh in Cleveland in January then I'll be feeling better about him.
The main thing the premature circle jerkers after last week that said the team was way more energized and better and running game was opened up by Manziel learned something though. That is, not every team is the 2015 49ers.
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I agree with what everyone has said. What worries me is we're going to ruin any chance that Manziel has by not providing him a capable team around him (sound familiar?) Christ, at one time Manziel was throwing the ball to Marlan Moore, Terrell Pryor, Jim Dray, and Travis Benjamin. But offense is just one part of it. What happens when Manziel can play with a solid defense? We got a glimpse of it against Tennessee and San Francisco. When he gets the ball back from a punt or a turnover, he starts to find a rhythm. A rhythm isn't exactly easy to find when your defense doesn't force a damn punt and the QB is sitting on the bench for extended amounts of time.
It's not easy to evaluate a young QB when the team is playing AT perhaps the toughest venue in professional sports, who just happens to have a crazy defense. And by the way, traveling to Kansas City might be the SECOND toughest place to play in the NFL, so he has THAT going for him...which is nice. And the icing on the cake is the Steelers game at home. The same Steelers team that somehow almost put up a 40 burger on the best defense in the league.
I'd love to see what Johnny can do in a close game. What's he look like when we're down 4 with 2 minutes left, and we need a TD? Or what's he play like when we're up 2 points and we have to close the game out? When we get down 17 points or more, the opposition knows we're passing it, and they can just tee off. That's difficult for the most seasoned QB's, let alone a second year guy with limited experience and more limited weapons.
Johnny has impressed me, and I didn't think I'd say that. Not only that, but the guy is FUN to watch! I like watching him execute a nice fake, looking down field, not knowing if he will run or pass...it's exciting. He's not fumbling the ball anymore (I don't think yesterday really counts), he's not throwing a ton of poor passes, and he largely looks in control. And that ball comes out HOT. I think the accuracy will come around a bit, and I really do believe that Manziel provides a spark to everyone on the team.
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Manziel did OK - given the opponent and venue. He didn't have much help, but did make some poor reads and decisions - also threw high and behind on some of the longer throws.
We have two more games yet though, so let's see what happens after that. If he beats Pittsburgh in Cleveland in January then I'll be feeling better about him.
The main thing the premature circle jerkers after last week that said the team was way more energized and better and running game was opened up by Manziel learned something though. That is, not every team is the 2015 49ers.
Manziel did OK - given the opponent and venue. He didn't have much help, but did make some poor reads and decisions - also threw high and behind on some of the longer throws.
We have two more games yet though, so let's see what happens after that. If he beats Pittsburgh in Cleveland in January then I'll be feeling better about him.
The main thing the premature circle jerkers after last week that said the team was way more energized and better and running game was opened up by Manziel learned something though. That is, not every team is the 2015 49ers.
No, you're right, but in the same spirit, not every team is Seattle either. And not every game is AT a place like Seattle. Not making excuses, as you are correct. His accuracy was iffy at times, but as you stated, he didn't have a bunch of help. Hindsight is 20/20, and I do believe that McCown gave us the best chance to win more games, but the problem is, what good did McCown playing do for the FUTURE of our team? Now we're starting to see some progress out of a first round draft pick (the HELL you say?!), and we're running out of season. How much progress can we really expect against the 3 hottest teams in the damn league (besides the ridiculous Panthers, who somehow weren't on our schedule)?
The damn Steelers scored a shitload of points against a nasty defense. God help our boys when they come to town. So once again, Manziel will be down 20 points and we'll be throwing it every down, and he'll be running for his life. I don't expect to beat K.C., but even they scored about 35 points this week (albeit against a bad Ravens team). If we can win one, it'll be next week. I'd love it.
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First thing we must do for Johnny is get rid of Pettine.
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I haven't been to impressed either most of his yards and completion have come in garbage time or against soft coverage. He just hasn't been accurate enough and he seems slow out there
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2016 Johnny #1 McCown #2. ? Build up everywhere else.
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I agree with what everyone has said. What worries me is we're going to ruin any chance that Manziel has by not providing him a capable team around him (sound familiar?) Christ, at one time Manziel was throwing the ball to Marlan Moore, Terrell Pryor, Jim Dray, and Travis Benjamin. But offense is just one part of it. What happens when Manziel can play with a solid defense? We got a glimpse of it against Tennessee and San Francisco. When he gets the ball back from a punt or a turnover, he starts to find a rhythm. A rhythm isn't exactly easy to find when your defense doesn't force a damn punt and the QB is sitting on the bench for extended amounts of time.
It's not easy to evaluate a young QB when the team is playing AT perhaps the toughest venue in professional sports, who just happens to have a crazy defense. And by the way, traveling to Kansas City might be the SECOND toughest place to play in the NFL, so he has THAT going for him...which is nice. And the icing on the cake is the Steelers game at home. The same Steelers team that somehow almost put up a 40 burger on the best defense in the league.
I'd love to see what Johnny can do in a close game. What's he look like when we're down 4 with 2 minutes left, and we need a TD? Or what's he play like when we're up 2 points and we have to close the game out? When we get down 17 points or more, the opposition knows we're passing it, and they can just tee off. That's difficult for the most seasoned QB's, let alone a second year guy with limited experience and more limited weapons.
Johnny has impressed me, and I didn't think I'd say that. Not only that, but the guy is FUN to watch! I like watching him execute a nice fake, looking down field, not knowing if he will run or pass...it's exciting. He's not fumbling the ball anymore (I don't think yesterday really counts), he's not throwing a ton of poor passes, and he largely looks in control. And that ball comes out HOT. I think the accuracy will come around a bit, and I really do believe that Manziel provides a spark to everyone on the team.
He did not even do that well in garbage time...
I agree with what everyone has said. What worries me is we're going to ruin any chance that Manziel has by not providing him a capable team around him (sound familiar?) Christ, at one time Manziel was throwing the ball to Marlan Moore, Terrell Pryor, Jim Dray, and Travis Benjamin. But offense is just one part of it. What happens when Manziel can play with a solid defense? We got a glimpse of it against Tennessee and San Francisco. When he gets the ball back from a punt or a turnover, he starts to find a rhythm. A rhythm isn't exactly easy to find when your defense doesn't force a damn punt and the QB is sitting on the bench for extended amounts of time.
It's not easy to evaluate a young QB when the team is playing AT perhaps the toughest venue in professional sports, who just happens to have a crazy defense. And by the way, traveling to Kansas City might be the SECOND toughest place to play in the NFL, so he has THAT going for him...which is nice. And the icing on the cake is the Steelers game at home. The same Steelers team that somehow almost put up a 40 burger on the best defense in the league.
It is hard for us to evaluate a QB based upon a one-time, real-time, broadcast view. It is not when you have an All-22 cut-down and 24 hours.
Excepting his feet, JM is showing most of what you want to see in a QB prospect. I can let yesterday's fumble go as a one-off, flash regression since his ball position has been much improved this year. I can't give credit for mastering play-calling late in a sophomore season. There was a lot of frantic clapping going on yesterday... some starting with 5 seconds on the play clock while our Center was still communicating line calls.
I thought the contrast between JM and Wilson was interesting especially when it came to their scrambling. JM just looked "frantic" in comparison. My impression was that this was symptomatic of their relative game speed perceptions, i.e., the game has yet to fully slow down for JM. It still may...
Additionally as I've written elsewhere, JM is not yet anticipating throws. This is the big hurdle to attaining "franchise" status. Displaying anticipation does not require a better defense, a close game or even an improved WR corps... it does not even require completions.
Not sure what triggers "anticipation" unless it's something akin to visualizing a golf shot, except at hyper speed. But I'm willing to bet it is a switch that suddenly clicks and the light goes on...
Bottom line: Mind is not changed yet, but two weeks to go...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
He did not even do that well in garbage time...
I agree with what everyone has said. What worries me is we're going to ruin any chance that Manziel has by not providing him a capable team around him (sound familiar?) Christ, at one time Manziel was throwing the ball to Marlan Moore, Terrell Pryor, Jim Dray, and Travis Benjamin. But offense is just one part of it. What happens when Manziel can play with a solid defense? We got a glimpse of it against Tennessee and San Francisco. When he gets the ball back from a punt or a turnover, he starts to find a rhythm. A rhythm isn't exactly easy to find when your defense doesn't force a damn punt and the QB is sitting on the bench for extended amounts of time.
It's not easy to evaluate a young QB when the team is playing AT perhaps the toughest venue in professional sports, who just happens to have a crazy defense. And by the way, traveling to Kansas City might be the SECOND toughest place to play in the NFL, so he has THAT going for him...which is nice. And the icing on the cake is the Steelers game at home. The same Steelers team that somehow almost put up a 40 burger on the best defense in the league.
It is hard for us to evaluate a QB based upon a one-time, real-time, broadcast view. It is not when you have an All-22 cut-down and 24 hours.
Excepting his feet, JM is showing most of what you want to see in a QB prospect. I can let yesterday's fumble go as a one-off, flash regression since his ball position has been much improved this year. I can't give credit for mastering play-calling late in a sophomore season. There was a lot of frantic clapping going on yesterday... some starting with 5 seconds on the play clock while our Center was still communicating line calls.
I thought the contrast between JM and Wilson was interesting especially when it came to their scrambling. JM just looked "frantic" in comparison. My impression was that this was symptomatic of their relative game speed perceptions, i.e., the game has yet to fully slow down for JM. It still may...
Additionally as I've written elsewhere, JM is not yet anticipating throws. This is the big hurdle to attaining "franchise" status. Displaying anticipation does not require a better defense, a close game or even an improved WR corps... it does not even require completions.
Not sure what triggers "anticipation" unless it's something akin to visualizing a golf shot, except at hyper speed. But I'm willing to bet it is a switch that suddenly clicks and the light goes on...
Bottom line: Mind is not changed yet, but two weeks to go...
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Posted by Darin Gantt on December 21, 2015, 10:04 AM EST
Getty ImagesIt’s far from a given that the Browns have cast their lot with Johnny Manziel for the long term.
But for what it’s worth, Manziel has cast his with coach Mike Pettine and the current cast of characters there.
Manziel said, in the wake of a loss to the Seahawks that dropped them to 3-11, that he hopes the Browns go for continuity this offseason instead of yet another overhaul, as he works under his second offensive coordinator in as many years.
“The [seahawks] have been doing this for awhile at a really high level,” Manziel said, via Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain Dealer. “I think this is the best that he’s [Russell Wilson’s] played probably throughout his career, so I don’t know if I can really picture that [kind of stability] moving forward. We’ll see what happens. I don’t think anybody really knows. I want these guys to be here next year.
“I want to have these receivers and the people that we have on this roster on the staff so we can go through the spring and not have to learn what this call is and this play and be able to go through a spring and have some of the continuity like. So it definitely would be a luxury for sure.”
While I’m sure that makes Pettine feel much better, no one knows who will survive the offseason in Cleveland. Last week, when Manziel was speculating about a future with suspended wideout Josh Gordon, Pettine replied: “That would turn out to be a positive thing if Josh is with us next year and Johnny’s on the roster, that those two have built a rapport together.”
That was more a hypothetical than an endorsement or an omen, as no one can know what the future holds there other than Jimmy Haslam, assuming he’s met with his homeless oracle and decided himself.
Of course, the differences between the Seahawks and the Browns go beyond time spent punching the clock together. And another year of Pettine and/or Manziel might not necessarily be moving them in the right direction.
But after changing course so often, it would at least be a direction.
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Sometimes l feel bad for sports writers. They get reduced to asking players rhetorical questions far too often. Granted, it would be pretty funny if Johnny was all, "yeah, l'd totally like to try a new coach next year. That's be cool. And maybe some better receivers. Shit, some of these guys are shorter than me!"
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Manziel should have responded "I wouldn't put Pettine in the elite category of coaches"
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Manziel should have responded "I wouldn't put Pettine in the elite category of coaches"
HAHAHAHAAHAHAAAA
In my opinion Johnny did the best he could do under the conditions...
High tier Seattle defense, dropped passes by wide open receivers, No run game, Loud ass fans, and of course our favorite rookie Cam Erving (who got owned 95% of the time)
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I'm sure all the players want him back.
They get days off, veterans get even more days off.
There is no accountablity for any mistakes, and to top all that off, Pettine thinks when you lose 34-3 and 30-13, that the effort was great.
Who wouldn't want to work under those conditions?
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