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Kruger Knows What You're Feeling Mario

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  • Tour2maT Tour2ma wrote on
    #72

    I see and stand corrected... but "a lot", as Mud pointed out, was 20 times through week 14... far more than Mario under Pet in 2013.

    I think the point I was trying to make was the intent in BUF was to run a 3-4, but Mario has been used more as a DE... same as Kruger.

    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
  • C Clevfan4life wrote on
    #73

    tbh there's absolutely no reason why Buffalo isn't running a base 4-3 almost exclusively. They have good LB'ers and Hughes/Williams should be stopping the run and rushing the passer....and that's IT. A shallow zone every now and then is fine.

  • MudflyM Mudfly wrote on
    #74

    Well....I still cant compare Buff to Cleve......and the biggest difference between Buffalo and Cleveland is....

    Buffalo went from 54 sacks down to 20(thats 3.5 per game down to 1.4 per game).....and the players are bitching......

    Cleve went from 31 sacks down to 28(with 2 games to go)(so thats 1.9 per game UP to 2.0 per game)...

    So...the OP wants you to believe we have gotten worse at sacks(like Buffalo), which isnt true....

    The Browns(as a team) have technically IMPROVED, this year, at sacking the QB...and the ONLY decrease on the entire team is Kruger.....

    DL has more sacks.....DB's have more sacks.....OLB's(except Kruger) have more sacks....& MLB's have the same....

    So....Buffalo = 60% DECREASE......Browns = 3% increase.....but they are the same,,,,,😉

  • U Unsympathetic wrote on
    #75

    The Browns have seen the fourth fewest pass attempts [only 453] while the Bills have seen 534, good for 9th most.

    So, for the Browns to have more sacks than the Bills is actually a pretty significant uptick in sacks per pass attempted against the defense [28/453 or 6.2% for CLE vs 20/534 or 3.75% for BUF], which I'd argue is a better metric for comparison than raw sack count.

    "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown
    👍
  • MudflyM Mudfly wrote on
    #76

    My point was simply based upon the OP saying the dramatic down tick in Buffalo is what has happened here.....

    and it's nowhere close....but thanks for the added stat...cause its something I didnt notice, but helps out the argument that we are no where near comparable to whats happened in Buffalo.....

  • U Unsympathetic wrote on
    #77

    By way of comparison, in 2014 we had 587 passes attempted against all season.. and accumulated 31 sacks, for a 5.3% clip. So, Cleveland is actually getting to the QB better this year as compared to last.

    FYI: Last year Bills had 559 passes attempted against and 54 sacks, for 9.66% clip. That's a pretty big dropoff up north..

    "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown
    MudflyM 1 Reply
    👍
  • MudflyM Mudfly wrote on
    #78

    or....another way to slice those sack #'s is to look at the team w/o Kruger...

    2014.....the "Browns" (less Kruger) had 20 sacks in 16 games.....(1.25 per game)

    2015.....the "Browns" (less Kruger) have 25 sacks in 14 games...(1.8 per game)....so an increase of 1/2 sack per game

    So...all that terrible Coaching has made Kruger worse and the rest of the team better.....hmmmmm

  • U Unsympathetic wrote on
    #79

    Not sure that's entirely fair, but it may be the best we can come up with..

    I'd only take out the percentage of Kruger's sacks that were accumulated due to Kruger winning the 1:1 battle. If he is blocked but still gets the sack [eg because the QB rolled into him without looking, or the coverage downfield was good enough that Kruger pushed the guy back into the QB] that's something that any other player could get as well, and should be included back into "The Browns" tally.

    This gets into the "replacement player at the position" vs "The special-ness of Kruger" debate. If Haden locks down AJ Green [yeah, I may be living in the past] and Dalton only has eyes for Green.. is that sack on Kruger or thanks to Haden?

    "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown
    MudflyM 1 Reply
  • U Unsympathetic

    By way of comparison, in 2014 we had 587 passes attempted against all season.. and accumulated 31 sacks, for a 5.3% clip. So, Cleveland is actually getting to the QB better this year as compared to last.

    FYI: Last year Bills had 559 passes attempted against and 54 sacks, for 9.66% clip. That's a pretty big dropoff up north..

    MudflyM Mudfly wrote on
    #80

    @unsympathetic said:

    . That's a pretty big dropoff up north..

    I think "huge dropoff" would be a good description for Buff....

    And "improvement" would be a fair description for Cleveland.....

  • U Unsympathetic

    Not sure that's entirely fair, but it may be the best we can come up with..

    I'd only take out the percentage of Kruger's sacks that were accumulated due to Kruger winning the 1:1 battle. If he is blocked but still gets the sack [eg because the QB rolled into him without looking, or the coverage downfield was good enough that Kruger pushed the guy back into the QB] that's something that any other player could get as well, and should be included back into "The Browns" tally.

    This gets into the "replacement player at the position" vs "The special-ness of Kruger" debate. If Haden locks down AJ Green [yeah, I may be living in the past] and Dalton only has eyes for Green.. is that sack on Kruger or thanks to Haden?

    MudflyM Mudfly wrote on
    #81

    @unsympathetic said:

    Not sure that's entirely fair, but it may be the best we can come up with..

    I'd only take out the percentage of Kruger's sacks that were accumulated due to Kruger winning the 1:1 battle. If he is blocked but still gets the sack [eg because the QB rolled into him without looking, or the coverage downfield was good enough that Kruger pushed the guy back into the QB] that's something that any other player could get as well, and should be included back into "The Browns" tally.

    This gets into the "replacement player at the position" vs "The special-ness of Kruger" debate. If Haden locks down AJ Green [yeah, I may be living in the past] and Dalton only has eyes for Green.. is that sack on Kruger or thanks to Haden?

    I dont remember the numbers now, but I did go back through all his sacks last year and determined he had 3 or 4 that he won the "one on one" and got the QB on his own......the rest were either unblocked, came right to him or were major coverage sacks.....

  • U Unsympathetic wrote on
    #82

    Note that the league leader in sacks this year, denver, only gets to the QB every 9% of attempts. We'd have to have 42 sacks today to get the same rate -- so we're not at that point yet. Not shocking.

    The question is, though.. what should we do to improve to Denver's level? Armonty and Nate seem like decent players.. and we need a scheme change.. But do we need to focus on ILB and DL in the draft?

    "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown
  • MudflyM Mudfly wrote on
    #83

    personally.....I think the most important factor is getting our DB's back.....last year we had a lot of coverage sacks.....

    But this year?....hardly any......

    And we need a quality OLB / Edge rusher.......( a REAL one 😉 )

  • Tour2maT Tour2ma wrote on
    #84

    Well... you two have convinced me of one thing...

    I am no longer open to scooping up Rexy as our DC once BUF dumps him in 2 weeks...

    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
    B 1 Reply
  • C Clevfan4life wrote on
    #85

    yeah I dont' want another 3-4 coach period. Tired of it.

  • Tour2maT Tour2ma

    @flugel said:

    But both of you are dismissing what NFL Head Coach first hired him to run HIS defense. Hence, I've always mentioned we have Rex Ryan's defense with Pettine Jr's wrinkles and Pettine Sr's gray hairs. Thurman varying a front for Ryan is also a wrinkle while we cover the pass just like Buffalo in 2015.

    Neither Rex or Pett have 2105 defenses that have exceeded disappointment but I will take note again there's a hybrid front variation going on. Now back to your enormous list of excuses and why 3-16 football is everybody's fault but Pettine's including the popcorn vendors.

    I never did get a list of players in their 2nd seasons in Pettine's defense showing improvement.

    First, Mud addressed the improved list a week or so ago. It also listed players who have improved this season and players who improved under Pet last year, but have either failed to sustain or build upon their 2014 showing... and why. It was some really good work... you should find it... read it...

    Second, are you claiming that our 2015 defense is no different from the one Ryan ran in Baltimore when Pet was an assistant?

    @wargograw said:

    Tour's quote supported your position, Flugs.

    Pray tell how, since the article was about standing Williams up an increased percentage of the time.

    FlugelF Flugel wrote on
    #86

    @tour2ma said:

    First, Mud addressed the improved list a week or so ago. It also listed players who have improved this season and players who improved under Pet last year, but have either failed to sustain or build upon their 2014 showing... and why. It was some really good work... you should find it... read it...

    Second, are you claiming that our 2015 defense is no different from the one Ryan ran in Baltimore when Pet was an assistant?

    Did I even mention Baltimore once? I was actually thinking more about the NY Jets when he was hired to be the DC for the first time in his NFL career for Rex Ryan. They were 7-7 prior to beating their last 2 regular season opponents resting plenty of starters due to clinching the playoffs early. I always got the impression Ryan was very hands-on with getting his defense fully implemented before any autonomy was handed over to a 1st time DC. Their strength was their corners. NY got hot and made it to the AFC Championship. They went to the AFC Championship again the next year where I'm guessing Pettine was granted more latitude for wrinkles.

    My gut says this is what Pettine had in mind here for his DC. There was even an idea/hope we'd add a top rated corner in the draft to go with Haden. Things haven't progressed well since our 7-4 start in spite of tons of injuries last year. We closed the year with 5 straight losses before arriving to 3 and 11 this year where all of our last 6 losses show us giving up 30 or more points. Without looking, I'll bet about 60% of our sacks this year came vrs TN and SF.

    You're right, I should have read what Mud said in lieu of unloading my rant on all you guys.

    I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!"
  • Tour2maT Tour2ma wrote on
    #87

    Nah... just good to be talking again. Only reason I mentioned BLT is because that's where Rex and Pet common coaching path started.

    I've little doubt Pet was on a tight rein in NYJ... IIRC getting out of Rex's shadow was part of the reason for the move to BUF.

    While I think Pet took the core philosophy of starting with strong CB play with him to BUF and CLE, I think the overall D has evolved.... or maybe devolved depending on your point of view.

    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
  • Tour2maT Tour2ma

    Well... you two have convinced me of one thing...

    I am no longer open to scooping up Rexy as our DC once BUF dumps him in 2 weeks...

    B BaconHound wrote on
    #88

    @tour2ma said:

    Well... you two have convinced me of one thing...

    I am no longer open to scooping up Rexy as our DC once BUF dumps him in 2 weeks...

    That will cost Buffalo $25 million

  • B BaconHound

    @tour2ma said:

    Well... you two have convinced me of one thing...

    I am no longer open to scooping up Rexy as our DC once BUF dumps him in 2 weeks...

    That will cost Buffalo $25 million

    Canton DawgC Canton Dawg wrote on
    #89

    @baconhound said:

    That will cost Buffalo $25 million

    I haven't been paying attention to the drama going down in Buffalo, are you saying this could be Rexy's last year?

    Two things that will define you: Your determination when you have nothing. Your attitude when you have everything. - Mike McCartney
    B 1 Reply
  • Tour2maT Tour2ma wrote on
    #90

    It'd be a good idea, but it's a bad theory... way too costly.

    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
  • Canton DawgC Canton Dawg

    @baconhound said:

    That will cost Buffalo $25 million

    I haven't been paying attention to the drama going down in Buffalo, are you saying this could be Rexy's last year?

    B BaconHound wrote on
    #91

    @canton-dawg said:

    I haven't been paying attention to the drama going down in Buffalo, are you saying this could be Rexy's last year?

    I can't imagine the Bills are eating that much salary and as in Cleveland who wants to coach the Bills

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