Jonathan Paul Manziel
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Here's how my mind has changed for what it's worth. When we drafted Johnny I expected great things. I was disappointed when the first season didn't deliver great things and I worried that he might not be able to play in the NFL. This season I have changed my mind and believe that he can play and play well with the proper support.
I don't know how much evidence we'll be able to glean from the next two games with terrible defensive backs, no starting guards, which I believe are imperative to success, and with the likes of Dwayne Bowe and Terrelle Pryor to throw to.
Hopefully Mike Pettine prove me wrong and Johnny proves the haters wrong and next season is a pleasant surprise.
WSS
Here's how my mind has changed for what it's worth. When we drafted Johnny I expected great things. I was disappointed when the first season didn't deliver great things and I worried that he might not be able to play in the NFL. This season I have changed my mind and believe that he can play and play well with the proper support.
I don't know how much evidence we'll be able to glean from the next two games with terrible defensive backs, no starting guards, which I believe are imperative to success, and with the likes of Dwayne Bowe and Terrelle Pryor to throw to.
Hopefully Mike Pettine prove me wrong and Johnny proves the haters wrong and next season is a pleasant surprise.
WSS
fucking trent dilfer won a superbowl with the proper support, so anything is possible that is if we get the support we need...
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And, now, Thomas, Barnidge and Whitner are all stepping up for Coach Pettine.....
Waiting for the article about all the (unnamed sources)players who want him gone..... ...
Here's another one.....with a poll too.....
need to watch what you ask for...i totally remember joe thomas saying " I think we finally got this thing turned around" during shurmers 3rd season. Hmmmmm, how did that work out???
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And, now, Thomas, Barnidge and Whitner are all stepping up for Coach Pettine.....
Waiting for the article about all the (unnamed sources)players who want him gone..... ...
Here's another one.....with a poll too.....
need to watch what you ask for...i totally remember joe thomas saying " I think we finally got this thing turned around" during shurmers 3rd season. Hmmmmm, how did that work out???
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I hear this ^^ and I hear people complaining about poor tackling and miss timed passing routes etc.....
But here is the truth.....4 years ago the CBA eliminated 5 weeks of practice.....it eliminated 2 a days....it eliminated the right for players to use the facility during the off season.....it eliminated CONTACT from practice, except for 1 hr per week.....and it eliminated afternoons from training camp....
So....they cannot practice tackling....and only get about 10-15 minutes a day to work on contact drills.....thats it.....
So its up to the players to know how to tackle, etc.....and its up to the players to train on their own in the off season....and by giving guys like Joe Thomas and Karlos Dansby an occassional day off(guys who ALWAYS perform, btw) ....it allows some of the younger guys and guys struggling to get the very few reps that are available.....
I honstly dont think people realize that since 2011, practice time has been cut by almost 70%....and contact has been cut even more.....
And the game has suffered for it in my opinion.
And the game has suffered for it in my opinion.
Excellent stuff Mud & Gip. The lost art of a wrap tackle (except Keugley) has been replaced by submarine hits to only try to blow up a player to hit the highlight reel. When Miami fired Philman & brought in Johnson & he put them straight into Oklahoma Drills at practice, Thought NFL Network was going to have a coronary & turn Johnson into the league. I would take Johnson at our practice daily. Did Butkus ever get a veteran day off of practice
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some fun #'s on our coaches for the last 10 years....
Crennel.... 4yrs....64 games....24-40 for an average of....6-10
Mangini....2 yrs....32 games....10-22 for an average of....5-11(-1 game)
Shurmur...2 yrs....32 games.....9-23 for an average of ....4.5 - 11.5 (-0.5 games)
Chud.........1 yr....16 games......4-12 for a average of...... 4-12 (-0.5 games)
Pettine.....2 yrs....32 games....10-22 for an average of.... 5-11 (+1 game)....(assuming he loses the last 2 of course)
So not too much difference, but definitely a downward trend from Crennel to Chud....but, at least Pettine is the first to buck that trend....even if only by a game....
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Discount? AS in only a 2nd rounder?
If you look at how the play develops, you can see Mack's just throwing a casual arm out there to help, but is straight away looking in to the next level.
What the assignment was we of course can't say - maybe Tour, who's looked at every running play we've made this season - can tell us if this is something out of the ordinary, but it's impossible to say for certain either way.
Why do I feel like the Browns OL equivalent of Life cereal Mikey?
Like I said repeatedly when I was grading, there was often a single failure... this is a great case.
Look at Erving... his set is not bad here. He's not too high. Waist bend is a bit much, but that yields rips not getting bulled on your ass... and while Heyward is damn good, he's not that much of a beast, and Erving is not that weak. Check Erving's stance and while a bit wide... whoa... there it is!
Look closely and you will see that Mack stepped on Cam's right foot... Cam was in the process of setting in a passpro look to escort Heyward's inside rush harmlessly to the inside. Erving's wide feet contributed, but Mack's were as wide or wider.
This draw was supposed to go between Cam and Joe T. and then to the left from there. Mack's set up, looking to seal off the inside, after he released says the later. The free rusher outside Joe T. and the unaccounted for Safety at top right (Allen #20) takeaway the Off tackle left and RG paths respectively.
So Mack can stay on the double team, but Allen will fill... not to mention the LB Greco overruns after releasing. In Greco's defense he is anticipating the LB pursuing to the left.
My guess is that Mack's chip was designed to sell the pass look and invite Heyward to fight the double-team. If Heyward does so, then his inside path is more assured, but instead he has a Clowney moment thanks to a stepped on foot.
Had the foot not been stepped upon? Not sure Joe sustained his block long enough for Crow to get cleanly by without Joe holding. Joe's rusher shaded inside just enough... probably because of the outside blitz.
As for why the draw? My guess is down and distance.
Discount? AS in only a 2nd rounder?
Why do I feel like the Browns OL equivalent of Life cereal Mikey?
Like I said repeatedly when I was grading, there was often a single failure... this is a great case.
Look at Erving... his set is not bad here. He's not too high. Waist bend is a bit much, but that yields rips not getting bulled on your ass... and while Heyward is damn good, he's not that much of a beast, and Erving is not that weak. Check Erving's stance and while a bit wide... whoa... there it is!
Look closely and you will see that Mack stepped on Cam's right foot... Cam was in the process of setting in a passpro look to escort Heyward's inside rush harmlessly to the inside. Erving's wide feet contributed, but Mack's were as wide or wider.
This draw was supposed to go between Cam and Joe T. and then to the left from there. Mack's set up, looking to seal off the inside, after he released says the later. The free rusher outside Joe T. and the unaccounted for Safety at top right (Allen #20) takeaway the Off tackle left and RG paths respectively.
So Mack can stay on the double team, but Allen will fill... not to mention the LB Greco overruns after releasing. In Greco's defense he is anticipating the LB pursuing to the left.
My guess is that Mack's chip was designed to sell the pass look and invite Heyward to fight the double-team. If Heyward does so, then his inside path is more assured, but instead he has a Clowney moment thanks to a stepped on foot.
Had the foot not been stepped upon? Not sure Joe sustained his block long enough for Crow to get cleanly by without Joe holding. Joe's rusher shaded inside just enough... probably because of the outside blitz.
As for why the draw? My guess is down and distance.
Good insight there Tour. I actually still like the erving pick in the draft. They know Mack is gone and have made plans to replace him.
It seems like they taking a route they makes the pick look like shit in the now but will really pan out in the long run. Learning all the positions besides your speciality may help in his development as a elite Center and eventual replacement to a probowler. I would bet he improves the most outta all of 2015 draftees.
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some fun #'s on our coaches for the last 10 years....
Crennel.... 4yrs....64 games....24-40 for an average of....6-10
Mangini....2 yrs....32 games....10-22 for an average of....5-11(-1 game)
Shurmur...2 yrs....32 games.....9-23 for an average of ....4.5 - 11.5 (-0.5 games)
Chud.........1 yr....16 games......4-12 for a average of...... 4-12 (-0.5 games)
Pettine.....2 yrs....32 games....10-22 for an average of.... 5-11 (+1 game)....(assuming he loses the last 2 of course)
So not too much difference, but definitely a downward trend from Crennel to Chud....but, at least Pettine is the first to buck that trend....even if only by a game....
some fun #'s on our coaches for the last 10 years....
Crennel.... 4yrs....64 games....24-40 for an average of....6-10
Mangini....2 yrs....32 games....10-22 for an average of....5-11(-1 game)
Shurmur...2 yrs....32 games.....9-23 for an average of ....4.5 - 11.5 (-0.5 games)
Chud.........1 yr....16 games......4-12 for a average of...... 4-12 (-0.5 games)
Pettine.....2 yrs....32 games....10-22 for an average of.... 5-11 (+1 game)....(assuming he loses the last 2 of course)
So not too much difference, but definitely a downward trend from Crennel to Chud....but, at least Pettine is the first to buck that trend....even if only by a game....
Those numbers are fun??? I think you need some new hobbies if that's "fun".
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Here's how my mind has changed for what it's worth. When we drafted Johnny I expected great things. I was disappointed when the first season didn't deliver great things and I worried that he might not be able to play in the NFL. This season I have changed my mind and believe that he can play and play well with the proper support.
I don't know how much evidence we'll be able to glean from the next two games with terrible defensive backs, no starting guards, which I believe are imperative to success, and with the likes of Dwayne Bowe and Terrelle Pryor to throw to.
Hopefully Mike Pettine prove me wrong and Johnny proves the haters wrong and next season is a pleasant surprise.
WSS
fucking trent dilfer won a superbowl with the proper support, so anything is possible that is if we get the support we need...
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I don't think Manziel is a true long term answer but when the teams ceiling is 7 wins who cares.
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I hear this ^^ and I hear people complaining about poor tackling and miss timed passing routes etc.....
But here is the truth.....4 years ago the CBA eliminated 5 weeks of practice.....it eliminated 2 a days....it eliminated the right for players to use the facility during the off season.....it eliminated CONTACT from practice, except for 1 hr per week.....and it eliminated afternoons from training camp....
So....they cannot practice tackling....and only get about 10-15 minutes a day to work on contact drills.....thats it.....
So its up to the players to know how to tackle, etc.....and its up to the players to train on their own in the off season....and by giving guys like Joe Thomas and Karlos Dansby an occassional day off(guys who ALWAYS perform, btw) ....it allows some of the younger guys and guys struggling to get the very few reps that are available.....
I honstly dont think people realize that since 2011, practice time has been cut by almost 70%....and contact has been cut even more.....
I hear this ^^ and I hear people complaining about poor tackling and miss timed passing routes etc.....
But here is the truth.....4 years ago the CBA eliminated 5 weeks of practice.....it eliminated 2 a days....it eliminated the right for players to use the facility during the off season.....it eliminated CONTACT from practice, except for 1 hr per week.....and it eliminated afternoons from training camp....
So....they cannot practice tackling....and only get about 10-15 minutes a day to work on contact drills.....thats it.....
So its up to the players to know how to tackle, etc.....and its up to the players to train on their own in the off season....and by giving guys like Joe Thomas and Karlos Dansby an occassional day off(guys who ALWAYS perform, btw) ....it allows some of the younger guys and guys struggling to get the very few reps that are available.....
I honstly dont think people realize that since 2011, practice time has been cut by almost 70%....and contact has been cut even more.....
Dude stop posting reasonable things, this is a Browns board
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Cardell Jones keep sliding back.
For very good reasons. Drafting a falling QB just because they're falling or you like their size or both is how you end up with Brady Quinn, or Johnny Manziel, or Blaine Gabbert, or Brandon Weeden, or Colt McCoy or a bunch of other guys whose names we don't remember because they weren't good enough.
For very good reasons. Drafting a falling QB just because they're falling or you like their size or both is how you end up with Brady Quinn, or Johnny Manziel, or Blaine Gabbert, or Brandon Weeden, or Colt McCoy or a bunch of other guys whose names we don't remember because they weren't good enough.
Mr.Rodgers slid quite a bit, and Mr.Brady avalanched all the way down Mt.Everest. Im not saying Cardales a lock or anything, just sayin that a sliding QB doesnt mean hes a lock to be bad. Cardale may end up being a mid-late round lotto pick for a lucky team. Never know....
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I always get a chuckle out of the Browns continued search for the next ex-Browns QB. Stick with one that at least the best players on the team think has the long term talent. I think I will defer to Joe Thomas and friends rather than the Brownsboard that is obviously gunshy. My only concern at this point remains his off field problem. It need to see better evidence that he is taking that seriously as well. I think we will have that answer before the next draft one way or the other.
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/12/johnny_manziel_has_won_over_ev.html
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some fun #'s on our coaches for the last 10 years....
Crennel.... 4yrs....64 games....24-40 for an average of....6-10
Mangini....2 yrs....32 games....10-22 for an average of....5-11(-1 game)
Shurmur...2 yrs....32 games.....9-23 for an average of ....4.5 - 11.5 (-0.5 games)
Chud.........1 yr....16 games......4-12 for a average of...... 4-12 (-0.5 games)
Pettine.....2 yrs....32 games....10-22 for an average of.... 5-11 (+1 game)....(assuming he loses the last 2 of course)
So not too much difference, but definitely a downward trend from Crennel to Chud....but, at least Pettine is the first to buck that trend....even if only by a game....
Those numbers are fun??? I think you need some new hobbies if that's "fun".
Those numbers are fun??? I think you need some new hobbies if that's "fun".
I always enjoy the benefits of mud's and Tour's idea of "fun". I'm too lazy to do the research myself, butt it is "fun" to read and think about what they find, even if we might disagree on the long run potential of JM.
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I always get a chuckle out of the Browns continued search for the next ex-Browns QB. Stick with one that at least the best players on the team think has the long term talent. I think I will defer to Joe Thomas and friends rather than the Brownsboard that is obviously gunshy. My only concern at this point remains his off field problem. It need to see better evidence that he is taking that seriously as well. I think we will have that answer before the next draft one way or the other.
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/12/johnny_manziel_has_won_over_ev.html
I always get a chuckle out of the Browns continued search for the next ex-Browns QB. Stick with one that at least the best players on the team think has the long term talent. I think I will defer to Joe Thomas and friends rather than the Brownsboard that is obviously gunshy. My only concern at this point remains his off field problem. It need to see better evidence that he is taking that seriously as well. I think we will have that answer before the next draft one way or the other.
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/12/johnny_manziel_has_won_over_ev.html
You nailed it, Tex. Unfortunately, the "off the field problems" are extremely real, and we've been burnt before by other talented players. I still say to roll the dice with Gordon and Johnny, improve the defense, and make it happen. The real issue with our team is the defense. Nothing matters until we stop giving up 30 points a game. I want to see Johnny play in a game where he gets the ball back, where the game is close, and where we need him to execute a fourth quarter drive to win us the game.
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I always get a chuckle out of the Browns continued search for the next ex-Browns QB. Stick with one that at least the best players on the team think has the long term talent. I think I will defer to Joe Thomas and friends rather than the Brownsboard that is obviously gunshy. My only concern at this point remains his off field problem. It need to see better evidence that he is taking that seriously as well. I think we will have that answer before the next draft one way or the other.
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/12/johnny_manziel_has_won_over_ev.html
. My only concern at this point remains his off field problem. It need to see better evidence that he is taking that seriously as well. I think we will have that answer before the next draft one way or the other.
Not sure that we will have the answer before the draft.....maybe more like the end of 2016.....but lets find out, cause we are neck deep already.....
You nailed it, Tex. Unfortunately, the "off the field problems" are extremely real, and we've been burnt before by other talented players. I still say to roll the dice with Gordon and Johnny
Yep.....Id grudgingly say the same......all the drama makes me tired. but we've come this far, so lets get em on the field and see if "1 year older and wiser" is reality.....
Whoever is coach is probably gonna have some say in this.....so, Pettine?.....Id say he'd want them back, even with all he's had to deal with.....simply because he's like a parent who has put in the effort to straighten up his wayward child.....now, maybe, it's time to enjoy the adult???
Or.....maybe not.....ha!
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some fun #'s on our coaches for the last 10 years....
Crennel.... 4yrs....64 games....24-40 for an average of....6-10
Mangini....2 yrs....32 games....10-22 for an average of....5-11(-1 game)
Shurmur...2 yrs....32 games.....9-23 for an average of ....4.5 - 11.5 (-0.5 games)
Chud.........1 yr....16 games......4-12 for a average of...... 4-12 (-0.5 games)
Pettine.....2 yrs....32 games....10-22 for an average of.... 5-11 (+1 game)....(assuming he loses the last 2 of course)
So not too much difference, but definitely a downward trend from Crennel to Chud....but, at least Pettine is the first to buck that trend....even if only by a game....
Those numbers are fun??? I think you need some new hobbies if that's "fun".
Those numbers are fun??? I think you need some new hobbies if that's "fun".
Ha!....yeah, actually, they are......
Had to find a way to turn my misery into something positive.....so I dig and dig just looking for small slivers of light....
Otherwise, it's all doom and gloom......which aint fun.....
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. My only concern at this point remains his off field problem. It need to see better evidence that he is taking that seriously as well. I think we will have that answer before the next draft one way or the other.
Not sure that we will have the answer before the draft.....maybe more like the end of 2016.....but lets find out, cause we are neck deep already.....
You nailed it, Tex. Unfortunately, the "off the field problems" are extremely real, and we've been burnt before by other talented players. I still say to roll the dice with Gordon and Johnny
Yep.....Id grudgingly say the same......all the drama makes me tired. but we've come this far, so lets get em on the field and see if "1 year older and wiser" is reality.....
Whoever is coach is probably gonna have some say in this.....so, Pettine?.....Id say he'd want them back, even with all he's had to deal with.....simply because he's like a parent who has put in the effort to straighten up his wayward child.....now, maybe, it's time to enjoy the adult???
Or.....maybe not.....ha!
Or.....maybe not.....ha!
Oh, I think we'll know by draft time if JM can get the off field issue resolved or not, because if it's not, he has shown no ability whatsoever to hide it.
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. My only concern at this point remains his off field problem. It need to see better evidence that he is taking that seriously as well. I think we will have that answer before the next draft one way or the other.
Not sure that we will have the answer before the draft.....maybe more like the end of 2016.....but lets find out, cause we are neck deep already.....
You nailed it, Tex. Unfortunately, the "off the field problems" are extremely real, and we've been burnt before by other talented players. I still say to roll the dice with Gordon and Johnny
Yep.....Id grudgingly say the same......all the drama makes me tired. but we've come this far, so lets get em on the field and see if "1 year older and wiser" is reality.....
Whoever is coach is probably gonna have some say in this.....so, Pettine?.....Id say he'd want them back, even with all he's had to deal with.....simply because he's like a parent who has put in the effort to straighten up his wayward child.....now, maybe, it's time to enjoy the adult???
Or.....maybe not.....ha!
Not sure that we will have the answer before the draft.....maybe more like the end of 2016.....but lets find out, cause we are neck deep already.....
Yep.....Id grudgingly say the same......all the drama makes me tired. but we've come this far, so lets get em on the field and see if "1 year older and wiser" is reality.....
Whoever is coach is probably gonna have some say in this.....so, Pettine?.....Id say he'd want them back, even with all he's had to deal with.....simply because he's like a parent who has put in the effort to straighten up his wayward child.....now, maybe, it's time to enjoy the adult???
Or.....maybe not.....ha!
I think you might be on to something there. Can you imagine the fury in Pettine if he's fired, then some new coach comes in with his D staff, keeps flip, and Manziel plays lights out?
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Oh, I think we'll know by draft time if JM can get the off field issue resolved or not, because if it's not, he has show no ability whatsoever to hide it.
Yeah...I miss read that.....and I agree about the off the field stuff.....the long lay off will reveal where he is at.....
Can you imagine the fury in Pettine if he's fired, then some new coach comes in with his D staff, keeps flip, and Manziel plays lights out?
Ha!.....something to keep him awake at night.........for years to come......
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