Jonathan Paul Manziel
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LOL- Go watch the replay. Then come here and honestly say a slow QB would not have been sacked 6-8 times minimum. No he did not have a good game and he was well off on his throws, but no one can say he did not extend plays multiple times per possession. And whether any of you Lynchsuckers like it or not, his legs got us back in the game and had us in position to go for a win at the end. And has anyone seen a slower ref this year bring the ball in for the last play that should have been? He took up all the time as he waddled back to the hashmark. He's lucky JM didn't bash him with his helmet instead of the ground.
He did very well on the ground and avoiding sacks, but he still couldn't throw the ball yesterday
He did very well on the ground and avoiding sacks, but he still couldn't throw the ball yesterday
No he couldn't. No argument there. But sometimes it's just possible a QB, like any pitcher, has a bad game. I find it interesting that in the Cleveland netherworld that automatically qualifies for shipment to Dallas for what would be next to nothing in trade. Jerry Jones will squeeze you for every ounce of stupidity you are willing to give.
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He did very well on the ground and avoiding sacks, but he still couldn't throw the ball yesterday
No he couldn't. No argument there. But sometimes it's just possible a QB, like any pitcher, has a bad game. I find it interesting that in the Cleveland netherworld that automatically qualifies for shipment to Dallas for what would be next to nothing in trade. Jerry Jones will squeeze you for every ounce of stupidity you are willing to give.
No he couldn't. No argument there. But sometimes it's just possible a QB, like any pitcher, has a bad game.
I'm not opposed to keeping Johnny next year because I still want him to pan out for us, I'd happily chalk it up as a "bad game" except he has never had a good game against an opponent better than the 49ers or Titans (who just got torched by Brandon Weeden).
His footwork and vision are his biggest problems as I see it. He has shown little to no improvement in either area since last year - and is looking more and more like a Tebow.
Pittsburgh will probably be a huge game for his hopes at starting next year - I don't think we ship him to Dallas unless we get away with highway robbery.
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And yet somehow we were right there at the end. Go figure.
And yet somehow we were right there at the end. Go figure.
The story of the clowns...if not getting clobbered, once in a long while we are there at the end. And poof, another loss....what a piece of crap franchise...
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And JM agrees with your assessment of his game. No ducking it.
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No he couldn't. No argument there. But sometimes it's just possible a QB, like any pitcher, has a bad game.
I'm not opposed to keeping Johnny next year because I still want him to pan out for us, I'd happily chalk it up as a "bad game" except he has never had a good game against an opponent better than the 49ers or Titans (who just got torched by Brandon Weeden).
His footwork and vision are his biggest problems as I see it. He has shown little to no improvement in either area since last year - and is looking more and more like a Tebow.
Pittsburgh will probably be a huge game for his hopes at starting next year - I don't think we ship him to Dallas unless we get away with highway robbery.
I'm not opposed to keeping Johnny next year because I still want him to pan out for us, I'd happily chalk it up as a "bad game" except he has never had a good game against an opponent better than the 49ers or Titans (who just got torched by Brandon Weeden).
His footwork and vision are his biggest problems as I see it. He has shown little to no improvement in either area since last year - and is looking more and more like a Tebow.
Pittsburgh will probably be a huge game for his hopes at starting next year - I don't think we ship him to Dallas unless we get away with highway robbery.
I agree totally. He is just not an afc north qb. Maybe not an nfl qb either...only time will tell.
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Actually the browns offensive line played great. Best protection qb had all year. 0 qb sacks but I guess John gets the credit for that to help out whomever's argument.
LOL- Go watch the replay. Then come here and honestly say a slow QB would not have been sacked 6-8 times minimum. No he did not have a good game and he was well off on his throws, but no one can say he did not extend plays multiple times per possession. And whether any of you Lynchsuckers like it or not, his legs got us back in the game and had us in position to go for a win at the end. And has anyone seen a slower ref this year bring the ball in for the last play that should have been? He took up all the time as he waddled back to the hashmark. He's lucky JM didn't bash him with his helmet instead of the ground.
LOL- Go watch the replay. Then come here and honestly say a slow QB would not have been sacked 6-8 times minimum. No he did not have a good game and he was well off on his throws, but no one can say he did not extend plays multiple times per possession. And whether any of you Lynchsuckers like it or not, his legs got us back in the game and had us in position to go for a win at the end. And has anyone seen a slower ref this year bring the ball in for the last play that should have been? He took up all the time as he waddled back to the hashmark. He's lucky JM didn't bash him with his helmet instead of the ground.
yeah well, if you are going to rely totally on his legs, lol back at ya. He will be on injured reserve mucho mucho times..
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Our defense has been looking better down the stretch despite the injuries. (Tramon Williams though holy balls - he's worse than the practice squad rookie Gaines)
Our running game has finally started to click after about 1.5 seasons of garbage despite the OL injuries.
QB play has not been a main reason we lost so many games (today it was, and there as a game earlier in the season where McCown made too many mistakes)
I think we have some positives going into next year, especially if we get 2013 version of Haden, Gipson, Mack, Gordon and can figure out how to draft high caliber talent this year. The biggest positive going into next year would be beating pittsburgh and knocking them out of contention, though. Looking forward to next week.
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Personally, I don't think Manziel has shown anything to think he can be a long-term successful starter in this league. But I don't know enough about football for that opinion to actually mean anything. However, I do know that his supporters will NEVER say he can't play. It will always be some excuse, some reason, some something other than he can't play. And no matter how poorly he plays, they will be right there with comparable bad game stats from PROVEN NFL caliber quarterbacks. Like that makes it okay to continually play poorly. When Johnny plays well against quality opponents, then let's talk.
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How about some balance here. As already posted, JM owned his performance. He didn't pass it off, blame anyone else but himself. That deserves some credit, yes? I didn't get to watch any of the game yesterday, but streaming 92.3 the Fan, they aren't necessarily crucifying Manziel this morning. Every QB has bad games. Every team will have a bad game. Aaron Rodgers 15/28 151 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT. Blown out by Arizona 38-8. Shit happens in this league. The Pats lost yesterday. The Panthers lost to a mediocre Atlanta team. We lost a meaningless game. JFF is growing. He's had setbacks, and I think he's showing signs of maturing and understanding what it means to be a QB in the league.
One thing JFF does display is a desire to win and compete. That much I do believe is true. He wants to win, and has some brass to try and do so and is a competitor and tries on every play to do what is needed to succeed.I'm not saying I know what to do, because I don't. I'm no expert (the only one on this board as it seems) either. But I'm leaning toward some continuity to some extent. Is JFF the answer, I don't have a fucking clue. But one thing is for sure, this team hasn't been able to put an answer in place for a long time. But the one consistent thing this team has done, is change, change, and change. And maybe, it's time we don't. Maybe it's time this team finds someone who can put some talent around JFF, and build and offense that will use the intuitive talents that this kid has. If one thing changes, and it sounds like something is going to happen is getting rid of Farmer. He has completely shit canned this team and personnel. Get someone here who can mold JFF and build around this kid and his ability to compete and play hard and make plays happen.
So you can go on and reply with your illogical JFF balls on my chin and homo responses. I'm no sympathizer, but I think the kid is has more upside than downside. But I do realize that JFF is his own worst enemy at this point and he still has a lot more to prove. Knee jerk reactions to a meaningless game, meh, smh. -
But what does The Iron Sheik Think? http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/cleveland-browns-johnny-manziel-johnny-football-iron-sheik-the-iron-sheik-122815
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Personally, I don't think Manziel has shown anything to think he can be a long-term successful starter in this league. But I don't know enough about football for that opinion to actually mean anything. However, I do know that his supporters will NEVER say he can't play. It will always be some excuse, some reason, some something other than he can't play. And no matter how poorly he plays, they will be right there with comparable bad game stats from PROVEN NFL caliber quarterbacks. Like that makes it okay to continually play poorly. When Johnny plays well against quality opponents, then let's talk.
Personally, I don't think Manziel has shown anything to think he can be a long-term successful starter in this league. But I don't know enough about football for that opinion to actually mean anything. However, I do know that his supporters will NEVER say he can't play. It will always be some excuse, some reason, some something other than he can't play. And no matter how poorly he plays, they will be right there with comparable bad game stats from PROVEN NFL caliber quarterbacks. Like that makes it okay to continually play poorly. When Johnny plays well against quality opponents, then let's talk.
And just remember, great QB's have always had receivers that made them both great. Rodgers, Brady, Brees, Manning, etc., have always had caliber receivers. Name one receiver we have had since '99 that has helped us. We've drafted a few, but they have all tanked. We seem to do a great job of drafting WR's that can't catch the fucking football, or can't get open, or just prefer weed. Yet, the Patriots seem to find guys that just work with Brady, time and time again. Small, quick white guys.... who fucking knew?!
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But what does The Iron Sheik Think? http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/cleveland-browns-johnny-manziel-johnny-football-iron-sheik-the-iron-sheik-122815
But what does The Iron Sheik Think? http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/cleveland-browns-johnny-manziel-johnny-football-iron-sheik-the-iron-sheik-122815
He has JFF balls on his chin...
That's great though.
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If he wants to be good he needs to get in training with some elites early next year and better not have a bunch of videos come out of him doing body shots and cocaine off strippers in vegas......
Dude should be fixing to train and throw every day until he can't feel his arm until all of his bad habits with footwork and such can disappear.
The thing about it is he's been doing things wrong his entire life, but it's worked. It doesn't work at the pro-level and it's hard to unlearn your instincts without a million good reps.
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cut him. If his judgement is so impaired that he video tapes himself drinking a 4loco....how can we trust him to properly read defense's?
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How about some balance here. As already posted, JM owned his performance. He didn't pass it off, blame anyone else but himself. That deserves some credit, yes? I didn't get to watch any of the game yesterday, but streaming 92.3 the Fan, they aren't necessarily crucifying Manziel this morning. Every QB has bad games. Every team will have a bad game. Aaron Rodgers 15/28 151 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT. Blown out by Arizona 38-8. Shit happens in this league. The Pats lost yesterday. The Panthers lost to a mediocre Atlanta team. We lost a meaningless game. JFF is growing. He's had setbacks, and I think he's showing signs of maturing and understanding what it means to be a QB in the league.
One thing JFF does display is a desire to win and compete. That much I do believe is true. He wants to win, and has some brass to try and do so and is a competitor and tries on every play to do what is needed to succeed.I'm not saying I know what to do, because I don't. I'm no expert (the only one on this board as it seems) either. But I'm leaning toward some continuity to some extent. Is JFF the answer, I don't have a fucking clue. But one thing is for sure, this team hasn't been able to put an answer in place for a long time. But the one consistent thing this team has done, is change, change, and change. And maybe, it's time we don't. Maybe it's time this team finds someone who can put some talent around JFF, and build and offense that will use the intuitive talents that this kid has. If one thing changes, and it sounds like something is going to happen is getting rid of Farmer. He has completely shit canned this team and personnel. Get someone here who can mold JFF and build around this kid and his ability to compete and play hard and make plays happen.
So you can go on and reply with your illogical JFF balls on my chin and homo responses. I'm no sympathizer, but I think the kid is has more upside than downside. But I do realize that JFF is his own worst enemy at this point and he still has a lot more to prove. Knee jerk reactions to a meaningless game, meh, smh.So you can go on and reply with your illogical JFF balls on my chin and homo responses.
But what does The Iron Sheik Think?
He has JFF balls on his chin...
Brilliant....
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I completely agree Z. This was by far and away the worst play from the qb position this year. I honestly don't know where all the support for this asshole comes from when the same people were in such a hurry to move on from colt McCoy and Brian Hoyer. In a game where the defense played well, there was a decent running game, and the line was giving the kid all they had. Seriously at times he had 5-6 seconds with a clean pocket on a 4 man rush and he had no vision and missed wide open checkdowns.
And it's not like we have to frantically sign a new rookie from the draft. If they willing to make a project outta a first round flop then atleast make a project outta a kid that fits the bill with height, arm strength, and proper footwork. I have absolutely no problem rolling into next year with depth chart of McCown, Austin, and Shaw. Build the team in other areas and then sell out and draft a qb when you have a team worthy of evaluating talents.
Its no secret I hated the pick and I have been proven correctly for the last 2 years. He basically threw away his rookie season. He was completely lost in the fact he didn't know the teams playbook or schemes. Basically cost us a pretty good OC in the process and a decent placeholdong qb. I want a qb that is all about football and he is not. Is he the first guy there and the last one to leave? Well unless your talking about the local watering hole in Texas the answer is NO. Hell there is reports of him being late to meetings about 4 times over the last 2 years. Hell the second time he was named starter this year after his discipline be totally blew off weight room session the morning after his birthday. And pettine totally gave him a pass because he is in great football shape. Really showed today when he was completely gased to start the 4th qrter are u fucking kidding me?? If the only reason this kid is on the team is because he was a First Rounder then I fucking quit. You can't figure that level of incompetent out anyways.
Bottom line Josh McCown has outworked, outplayed, and just simply outclassed the legend of Johnny Football this year kinda the same way Conner Shaw did last year. We signed Josh to a two year deal and he showed me enough to get excited about watching him lead this team in2016 and mentor whomever is here and eager to follow his lead. If u disagree with myself or Z I would like to know y? Are you still buying into the teabowesk hype, or do you truley believe he has improved the qb position? Amazingly there is less and less Texas AM fairweathers in this group. If John is not on this team next year it wont bother me very much.
Johnny Manziel - Browns 2016 starting QB.
So sorry.
Johnny Manziel - Browns 2016 starting QB.
We're trading McC?
Dude should be fixing to train and throw every day until he can't feel his arm until all of his bad habits with footwork and such can disappear.
Can't do it... tendonitis... remember?
Only word needed to describe yesterday's showing by JM... regression.
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Pettine said in his press conference that this was a step forward for Manziel, I'm on board now fire his ass.
Pettine said in his press conference that this was a step forward for Manziel, I'm on board now fire his ass.
He must be trying to fool the rest of the league.....cause the Browns REALLY want Johnny to look good going into the off season......
Id say not a step forward as much as a step toward the door.....
Never say never, but I do not like his odds at this point... And it was not just this one game.
His mechanics have been in decline in this last series of starts and today we saw really good throwing mechanics maybe once???
It's a full-blown regression...
Right....and it is.....
We kept hearing about his "progression" and improvement, but reality is that that lasted exactly 2 games and....NOW.....he's on a 4 game skid alllllllllllllllllllllllllll the way back to last year....
Yesterday was brutal.....4-14 on passes over 10 yds......a million missed reads......terrible passes(really terrible)..... and the D and running game showed up for him(again), yet we could not get it done on offense....
And had 2 glowing chances at the end to take that game.....and we(he) didnt......
And the running part would have been so much better if he hadnt left wide open receivers to do it.....
I dont know......just not seeing anything to give me hope or confidence.....at all.....
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Personally I love the title of the post. I believe it's from the department of redundancy department.
WSS
Personally I love the title of the post. I believe it's from the department of redundancy department.
WSS
Ha, thought I was the only one who uses that joke. I hear they use a lot of spreadsheet-tracking spreadsheets in that department.
On JM, guy is showing progress. Can we stop flushing the team down the toilet at every minor issue?
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Personally, I don't think Manziel has shown anything to think he can be a long-term successful starter in this league. But I don't know enough about football for that opinion to actually mean anything. However, I do know that his supporters will NEVER say he can't play. It will always be some excuse, some reason, some something other than he can't play. And no matter how poorly he plays, they will be right there with comparable bad game stats from PROVEN NFL caliber quarterbacks. Like that makes it okay to continually play poorly. When Johnny plays well against quality opponents, then let's talk.
And just remember, great QB's have always had receivers that made them both great. Rodgers, Brady, Brees, Manning, etc., have always had caliber receivers. Name one receiver we have had since '99 that has helped us. We've drafted a few, but they have all tanked. We seem to do a great job of drafting WR's that can't catch the fucking football, or can't get open, or just prefer weed. Yet, the Patriots seem to find guys that just work with Brady, time and time again. Small, quick white guys.... who fucking knew?!
great QB's have always had receivers that made them both great. Rodgers, Brady, Brees, Manning, etc., have always had caliber receivers.
Brady won his super bowls with starting WR's who were 7th rounders, UDFA's, and a cornerback [Troy Brown]. Brady played 3 years with one good receiver [Moss] but lost in the SB, got his ACL blown, and lost in the first round. Brady made Welker and Edelman pro bowlers.. not the other way around.
Brees won the SB with Colston [7th round] and Devery Henderson [total of 20 TD's in his entire career] starting at WR. At TE that year, NO started... Jeremy Shockey, not Graham.
But sometimes it's just possible a QB, like any pitcher, has a bad game.
By some magical coincidence, each and every one of Manziel's games are bad games.. when you analyze the tape.
He can't go through a progression. He can't throw to the open man. That's who he is. Will someone else "see something" and "convince themselves he can be coached up" ? I hope so! Just like the TRich trade, I hope manziel brings us a first. But does Manziel have actual skill? Nope. Done. Next.
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