Jonathan Paul Manziel
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No....not really.....I dont know that he is an asset anywhere....thats purely an assumption.....
And, though he is improved from last year, I still see a guy who hasnt reached "base" maturity yet.....so, after rehab, he is still doing the same things he did last year...and only a week or 2 after being benched, he does EXACTLY what he was benched for...(again)...
Nope....I see a guy totally thumbing his nose at the fans(Ill do what I want, when I want).....and at his Coaches and his team.....
And this weeks TMZ 4-loco episode pretty much proves that to me.....100%....he just doesnt give a shit what the team wants and only cares about what HE wants.....sorry, but it's obvious.....
So.....saying the players had hope we would win last week is not "something he brings to the team"......what POSITIVES has he brought to the team.....leadership?.....maturity?.....quality play?.....a winning attitude?.....a strong work ethic?....a willingness to change, grow or mature?.....improved QB play?......more scoring?......what???
"He's showing his leadership capabilities,'' said Whitner.
"If it weren't for (Manziel), we would not have been in the position we were in today,'' said receiver Travis Benjamin (two catches, 20 yards). "He made plays and kept his eyes down field. Sometimes, when he scrambled, he looked like the old Johnny where he would get the first down and keep us in the game."
"It's tough we ran out of time,'' said Barnidge. "He was doing a good job. He was hustling up the plays. You could see the leadership in him. He got everyone going, got the plays called. I don't think we wasted any time.''
Crowell, who rushed for 88 yards on 16 carries, cited Manziel's leadership in the huddle.
"I felt like Johnny was in control,'' he said. "We made some good plays and we made a couple of bad plays. We made a bad play at the wrong time and I feel like that cost us the game."
Of course those are just his teammates and not experts from the internet.
"He's showing his leadership capabilities,'' said Whitner.
"If it weren't for (Manziel), we would not have been in the position we were in today,'' said receiver Travis Benjamin (two catches, 20 yards). "He made plays and kept his eyes down field. Sometimes, when he scrambled, he looked like the old Johnny where he would get the first down and keep us in the game."
"It's tough we ran out of time,'' said Barnidge. "He was doing a good job. He was hustling up the plays. You could see the leadership in him. He got everyone going, got the plays called. I don't think we wasted any time.''
Crowell, who rushed for 88 yards on 16 carries, cited Manziel's leadership in the huddle.
"I felt like Johnny was in control,'' he said. "We made some good plays and we made a couple of bad plays. We made a bad play at the wrong time and I feel like that cost us the game."
Of course those are just his teammates and not experts from the internet.
Get rid of Barnidge, he doesn't love the game.
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I totally agree with his off the field immature jackassery. But on the field and in practice/preparation all his teammates and coaches are pleased with the changes and leadership in the huddle. Is he worth the tradeoff?
If there were a clear cut no brainer QB in this draft I would say absolutely not. Or if we make an off season acquisition such as Bradford like you suggested, again nope he isn't worth keeping until he grows up to be a responsible man. Problem is there isn't an easy answer at the moment. McCown isn't it. Too slow and can't keep from getting creamed too often. Shaw? Maybe. Davis? He's a younger McCown without the accuracy.
Here's a list of the 2016 FA QB's-Osweiler might be worth a shot. Or even Cousins. Both are young and getting better.
I totally agree with his off the field immature jackassery. But on the field and in practice/preparation all his teammates and coaches are pleased with the changes and leadership in the huddle.
Is he worth the tradeoff? If there were a clear cut no brainer QB in this draft I would say absolutely not.
See AG ....thats my whole point......you say he's not worth it....."absolutely not"....IF there was a better option in the draft....
Thats all that really matters.....if he's not the guy, he's not the guy....no matter WHO is in the draft....do you not see that?
And I still dont see you listing a single "Positive" he's brought to the team...
Ok so....."Leadership in the huddle"...???......Id say we have that in spades with McCown and his leadership extends well beyond the huddle(and Johnnys clearly does not).....so, still waiting for those positivess he's brought to the team.....or improvements...
And a long enough list of positives to outweigh all the negatives....please
I knew if I posted my list it would evolve to nit picking each point...as opposed to just realizing and accepting that he's brought more negatives than positives.....
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Let's draft a bunch of high schoolers. They "love the game".QB was not our problem this year. McCown did a good job while he was healthy. I don't want to see the Browns go QB in the 1st round this year as we have so many other holes to fill. We already have one "1st round QB project" on the team, and we certainly don't need two - ASSuming your lil' fella is still a Brown next year.
Hopefully we draft kids who love the game, and stay away from the Veikunes, Mingos, Gilberts, Warrens, and Powells that look great in shorts, and in some cases, look good with shorts, a helmet and loud, kool music thumpin' away.
Ditch anyone who is making more than league minimum...obviously they love money more than the game. Get rid of anyone who is black, likes rap, drives anything other newer than a '99, has any social media accounts, has a girlfriend, has more than a one bedroom apartment, or has ingested anything beside water and grilled chicken in the past five years. None of those people love the game, they're in it for themselves.
If you run faster than a 4.75, you don't love the game...you love track. If you have less than 15% body fat, you don't love the game...you love working out. If you have long hair, you don't love the game...you love haircare.
Get rid of all of them.
Let's draft a bunch of high schoolers. They "love the game".
This right here is what's wrong with you, and why most people on here think you're a tool.
Honestly, if you don't know the difference between a professional athlete that plays for the love of the game first, and one who just wants to get paid, then you are useless here.
I know you like to use kool, funny one-liners to comment here - and hell, sometimes even I laugh - but if you honestly don't know or understand what I'm talking about here, then you need to learn......
Que the funny one liner in 3, 2, 1....
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Reported to training facility with concussion symptoms. Post link when I have it.
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One of the reasons some fans here hate Bill Belichick is because he didn't tailor the offense to Bernie Kosar remaining skills.My beef would be that Manziel does NOT fit any traditional NFL system....So a "special system" would have to be devised just to utilize his improvisational talents.....
And my problems with that are.....
- If you do that, where do you find back ups that also will do well in this "special" system....cause he WILL get hurt eventually.....all QB's do......and you will be screwed when that happens...
- And if you cant find another Johnny or 2(as back ups).....do you then force your team to learn 2 systems, so they can switch up for the other QB's?.....(cause thats a bad idea)....
- And....do you totally revamp your offense and system, making 25 other guys adjust their play.....for a guy who hasnt done anything in 2 years???......really?.....I dont know anyone that would sell out their whole Offense and push the whole pot in for a hand like that?....
It's rare you will have three excellent quarterbacks with the exact same skill set.
Just build a good team. If it turns out johnny is the weak link then you can plug in wtvr 6 foot 6 choirboy you want.
I mean think about it, a tough defense and a rugged running game have nothing to do with Johnny's skill set. Or Josh or Austin or Hoyers, or anybody's.
WSS
One of the reasons some fans here hate Bill Belichick is because he didn't tailor the offense to Bernie Kosar remaining skills.
It's rare you will have three excellent quarterbacks with the exact same skill set.
Just build a good team. If it turns out johnny is the weak link then you can plug in wtvr 6 foot 6 choirboy you want.
I mean think about it, a tough defense and a rugged running game have nothing to do with Johnny's skill set. Or Josh or Austin or Hoyers, or anybody's.
WSS
Well...you wont have 3 identical QB's, agreed.....but hopefully they all have similar NFL skill sets or can all work within the same system.....
Weve all heard how the Browns are forcing Johnny to be something he's not.....or making him work a traditional system, when he should have a tailor made one....so, its gotta be one or the other.....(remember all the whining last year when we tried to use a different system for him???).....(and all the whining about trying to force him into a traditional system?).....and thats because there is no system, in place, that best utilizes his talents.....here or anywhere else....
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Let's draft a bunch of high schoolers. They "love the game".
This right here is what's wrong with you, and why most people on here think you're a tool.
Honestly, if you don't know the difference between a professional athlete that plays for the love of the game first, and one who just wants to get paid, then you are useless here.
I know you like to use kool, funny one-liners to comment here - and hell, sometimes even I laugh - but if you honestly don't know or understand what I'm talking about here, then you need to learn......
Que the funny one liner in 3, 2, 1....
Cue*This right here is what's wrong with you, and why most people on here think you're a tool.
Honestly, if you don't know the difference between a professional athlete that plays for the love of the game first, and one who just wants to get paid, then you are useless here.
I know you like to use kool, funny one-liners to comment here - and hell, sometimes even I laugh - but if you honestly don't know or understand what I'm talking about here, then you need to learn......
Que the funny one liner in 3, 2, 1....
The opinion of me here doesn't matter to me. I've put in my time and I've contributed years worth of decent chalk talk. This is the lowest quality of trash I've seen posted here in going on 6 years, so I'm rolling around in the mud with you idiots.
Money always talks. The players who "play for the love of the game" are primarily players at the top of their position on winning teams. You rarely hear of a high quality player on a perennial loser being happy year after year with losing.
But, since you think it's so prevalent in today's NFL...I'll bite. Show me a perennial pro bowler or HOF-caliber player who played his entire career on a losing team and never left. For every one you can dig up, I'll dig up 10 that have chased a ring or a big contract.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Probably got drunk....fell down.....and whacked his head......
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Cue*This right here is what's wrong with you, and why most people on here think you're a tool.
Honestly, if you don't know the difference between a professional athlete that plays for the love of the game first, and one who just wants to get paid, then you are useless here.
I know you like to use kool, funny one-liners to comment here - and hell, sometimes even I laugh - but if you honestly don't know or understand what I'm talking about here, then you need to learn......
Que the funny one liner in 3, 2, 1....
The opinion of me here doesn't matter to me. I've put in my time and I've contributed years worth of decent chalk talk. This is the lowest quality of trash I've seen posted here in going on 6 years, so I'm rolling around in the mud with you idiots.
Money always talks. The players who "play for the love of the game" are primarily players at the top of their position on winning teams. You rarely hear of a high quality player on a perennial loser being happy year after year with losing.
But, since you think it's so prevalent in today's NFL...I'll bite. Show me a perennial pro bowler or HOF-caliber player who played his entire career on a losing team and never left. For every one you can dig up, I'll dig up 10 that have chased a ring or a big contract.
Cue*
lol
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good maybe his girlfriend fought back this time.
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Then you don't recall correctly mud. I thought it was a stupid idea to put in an entirely new offense for the Cincinnati game. None of the players looked good. None of them.
Again block and tackle and run and stop the run. Any slight differences between your quarterbacks shouldn't make that much difference.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
Yep, once again I agree with you. If we could just go back in time and get Carr; but, alas that is not going to happen. Anyway, like to read your posts because they are insightful and make sense.
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So if you look at the record, logically wanted Mike P fired weeks ago?
Not accusing you or tour but there are plenty of the guys here that hated him off the bat who now say they were in his corner until he proved them wrong. Of course a lot of guys claim that they predicted a lot of shit a long time ago.
WSS
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Yep, once again I agree with you. If we could just go back in time and get Carr; but, alas that is not going to happen. Anyway, like to read your posts because they are insightful and make sense.
Yep, once again I agree with you. If we could just go back in time and get Carr; but, alas that is not going to happen. Anyway, like to read your posts because they are insightful and make sense.
I'm assuming you aren't talking to me.
WSS
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Yes mud, a lot of these fans deserve the finger. You .... border on haters but you guys aren't that bad.
Cant speak for Tour.....and admit Im no longer a Johnny fan.....but definitely not a hater....
I got right on board when he was drafted and then sat on the edge of my seat waiting for something great to happen....
And it hasnt happened....(though, many of my initial concerns HAVE been proven to be true....so far.....)
Im just willing to call a spade a spade, when I see one.....and, to me, Johnny is just that.....still time to prove me wrong though....
Cant speak for Tour.....and admit Im no longer a Johnny fan.....but definitely not a hater....
I got right on board when he was drafted and then sat on the edge of my seat waiting for something great to happen....
And it hasnt happened....(though, many of my initial concerns HAVE been proven to be true....so far.....)
Im just willing to call a spade a spade, when I see one.....and, to me, Johnny is just that.....still time to prove me wrong though....
I have been the most vocal this week and I'm certainly not a hater, so I am not sure who he is referring too.
I had Johnny pegged as the best prospect in his draft. I didn't want him with our first pick because we were picking too high for his risk at 4 (or
for my money, but I had no problem getting him where we did.Then I saw the first season. Was terrible when he finally played. Was unprepared and unfocused, as he admitted, and the first year was a complete waste. Then he misses a treatment at the end of the year because he's partying, and you just shake your head about him being a franchise QB.
Despite that, I wiped the slate clean and was ready to root him on in 2015. Was encouraged he was owning up to things and was going to rehab. Then I saw his second season. Unable to beat out McCown, and it wasn't close. Played poorly in opener, but then came back the next week to beat the Titans and I was encouraged. And then the distractions start again ... obviously those three months in rehab were wasted, he could have been working on his QB skills, because he was drinking again. Ok ... I can live with the drinking ... let's see what he can do. Then the video, lying about the video, asking people to lie about the video ... sigh. Still not taking on the responsibility of a starting NFL QB. Then he plays, and it's not that good. He gives 100% effort on Sundays. But his footwork is horrible, he doesn't follow his progressions, he's not accurate, he's not disciplined, he's inconsistent, and our offense scored about a TD per game less when he starts. 13 out of 32 last week when we needed a passer down the stretch. I like his effort, but he is so fundamentally off, that either the coaching is not taking, his off-the-field work is not enough, or he simply lacks key NFL skills.
Those are NOT good signs at the end of year two.
So I am in favor of bringing in another prospect and seeing what we can get for Johnny. I wish the best for him, but I think he is done in Cleveland. It just didn't happen. In my mind he has not been dedicated enough to the Cleveland Browns. That's my opinion. I don't hate Johnny. I like him. I love to party too. I like that he gives his all on Sunday.
But I've determined he's not good enough for the Browns. Maybe I'm wrong. But it doesn't make me a hater. It makes me a guy with an opinion ... Who wants the best for the Browns.
Zombo
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Actually Westside, you both made good points; but, I think mud is saying we would not have had to use another offense if we had 3 similar QBs and the Cinn game would not have been so bad. At least that is how I read it; I could be wrong.
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So, anyone heard who will be starting this week then? Maybe Shane Falco is available
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So, anyone heard who will be starting this week then? Maybe Shane Falco is available
.Austin Davis. Pryor get reps as his backup.
Zombo
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