Joe Banner on the future of the Cleveland Browns
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I'm not one of the most, in that case. I think what Farmer did in late rounds and with UDFA's was great, and should have made a case for him to stay.
I'm a bit of a Farmer defender, but he didn't have any good UDFA steals in this class, did he? My recollection is they were all in 2014 but I might be forgetting someone.
I'm a bit of a Farmer defender, but he didn't have any good UDFA steals in this class, did he? My recollection is they were all in 2014 but I might be forgetting someone.
Not that I can recall. It was really just that first year.
Banner was a narcissistic douche who actually thought he couldn't do anything wrong.. but nearly every single thing that guy did was the wrong move, both for the Browns and the Eagles.
Farmer accomplished zero. His drafts were terrible from beginning to end. Yes, he found K'Waun.. and that meets Farmer's job expectation, it's not an "outperforming" item that earns him extra time.
I'd love to see a breakdown of each of Banner's moves and your opinion on why they were wrong, if that's the case.
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Right....cant really call Gabe a steal, considering his performance this season.....
Id agree that KWaun was a great find and, maybe, we can add Crowell to that.....as he also was a UDFA....
So, for 2014....now that some time has passed....we only have Crow & Kwaun(ok udfa's)...and picks Bito & Kirksey...(also ok so far)
Gotta call Manziel, Gilbert and West complete busts(at least thats my view).....and Desir is just kind of doing so so.....
So....that draft = 6 guys = 3 complete busts = 2 ok players(with Bito having some positive upside) and a project
This year(2015)....no udfa's or late round picks contributing, that I can think of.....maybe I. Campbell, who looked pretty good in a very limited role.....but thats it....
Every other player tapped later than Rnd 3 is gone, injured or on the bench.....and, out of the 12 players picked, only 3 contributed anything significant or showed what Id consider to be real promise.....Orchard, Duke and Shelton....(plus Campbell)...
The rest?.....injured, gone or just... "meh"....
My final tally for 2 years = 18 draft picks....
- 5 average starter quality players (Bito, Shelton, Kirksey, Orchard & Duke)
- 3 back up or developmental quality players (Campbell, Eving, Cooper)
- 2 injured unknowns (Telfer, Ekpre)
- 3 Lower level role players (Desir, Gaines, M. Johnson)
- 5 Complete busts (Manziel, Gilbert, Mayle, West, Pullard)
Percentage wise....Id say Farmer did ok and about the same as most GM's do...BUT, the fact that he missed so many high picks and didnt score even one above instantly average player....I say blah....
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Mud - Farmer actually had 22 picks over the last 2 years.
Without looking, I believe he used those to trade up in the draft.
Two things that will define you: Your determination when you have nothing. Your attitude when you have everything. - Mike McCartney -
I would not call Pullard a bust, but I would call it a mistake to place him on the PS where he was lifted and now starting on another team.
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Mud - Farmer actually had 22 picks over the last 2 years.
Without looking, I believe he used those to trade up in the draft.
Mud - Farmer actually had 22 picks over the last 2 years.
Without looking, I believe he used those to trade up in the draft.
Right...and my memory has us trading up for West, Manziel and Gilbert.....so add those picks to the bust file....
I would not call Pullard a bust, but I would call it a mistake to place him on the PS where he was lifted and now starting on another team.
Hes a bust for the Browns, simply because he hasnt and never will contribute to the team....and he's gone because of moves and decisions made by the GM....
Just semantics to discuss how good he'll be for others....
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Right....cant really call Gabe a steal, considering his performance this season.....
Id agree that KWaun was a great find and, maybe, we can add Crowell to that.....as he also was a UDFA....
So, for 2014....now that some time has passed....we only have Crow & Kwaun(ok udfa's)...and picks Bito & Kirksey...(also ok so far)
Gotta call Manziel, Gilbert and West complete busts(at least thats my view).....and Desir is just kind of doing so so.....
So....that draft = 6 guys = 3 complete busts = 2 ok players(with Bito having some positive upside) and a project
This year(2015)....no udfa's or late round picks contributing, that I can think of.....maybe I. Campbell, who looked pretty good in a very limited role.....but thats it....
Every other player tapped later than Rnd 3 is gone, injured or on the bench.....and, out of the 12 players picked, only 3 contributed anything significant or showed what Id consider to be real promise.....Orchard, Duke and Shelton....(plus Campbell)...
The rest?.....injured, gone or just... "meh"....
My final tally for 2 years = 18 draft picks....
- 5 average starter quality players (Bito, Shelton, Kirksey, Orchard & Duke)
- 3 back up or developmental quality players (Campbell, Eving, Cooper)
- 2 injured unknowns (Telfer, Ekpre)
- 3 Lower level role players (Desir, Gaines, M. Johnson)
- 5 Complete busts (Manziel, Gilbert, Mayle, West, Pullard)
Percentage wise....Id say Farmer did ok and about the same as most GM's do...BUT, the fact that he missed so many high picks and didnt score even one above instantly average player....I say blah....
Right....cant really call Gabe a steal, considering his performance this season.....
Id agree that KWaun was a great find and, maybe, we can add Crowell to that.....as he also was a UDFA....
So, for 2014....now that some time has passed....we only have Crow & Kwaun(ok udfa's)...and picks Bito & Kirksey...(also ok so far)
Gotta call Manziel, Gilbert and West complete busts(at least thats my view).....and Desir is just kind of doing so so.....
So....that draft = 6 guys = 3 complete busts = 2 ok players(with Bito having some positive upside) and a project
This year(2015)....no udfa's or late round picks contributing, that I can think of.....maybe I. Campbell, who looked pretty good in a very limited role.....but thats it....
Every other player tapped later than Rnd 3 is gone, injured or on the bench.....and, out of the 12 players picked, only 3 contributed anything significant or showed what Id consider to be real promise.....Orchard, Duke and Shelton....(plus Campbell)...
The rest?.....injured, gone or just... "meh"....
My final tally for 2 years = 18 draft picks....
- 5 average starter quality players (Bito, Shelton, Kirksey, Orchard & Duke)
- 3 back up or developmental quality players (Campbell, Eving, Cooper)
- 2 injured unknowns (Telfer, Ekpre)
- 3 Lower level role players (Desir, Gaines, M. Johnson)
- 5 Complete busts (Manziel, Gilbert, Mayle, West, Pullard)
Percentage wise....Id say Farmer did ok and about the same as most GM's do...BUT, the fact that he missed so many high picks and didnt score even one above instantly average player....I say blah....
eh eh, when you pick a qb, the most important player on the team, and he turns out a bust, there is a multiplier effect on that...the gm sucked. one of the worst ever and he deserved what he got even though our owner should be the first to go....SELL THE TEAM HASLEM, YOU ARE A LOSER...
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Damn good work Mud. Add in textgate, Bowe, The guys he never re-signed, for comp. picks. & never traded to upgrade the high end of the lineup, maybe analytics could be a good thing if we just could find that new HC with a scoutmaster up his sleeve
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Damn good work Mud. Add in textgate, Bowe, The guys he never re-signed, for comp. picks. & never traded to upgrade the high end of the lineup, maybe analytics could be a good thing if we just could find that new HC with a scoutmaster up his sleeve
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Ok Ray Ray I am sorry. I would like to thank you for a punter in Andy "Boom" Lee. Yes a punter
& yes with Ray's comp. picks & this so called lytics may we score TD's & not FG's. ( T made me do this though, Ray) Browns & Buffett: Got to go fishin, Down to rock bottom again, with just a few Friends Team Brotherhood-"It's not about You,Me or I. It's about building We"..Hue Jackson -
I would not call Pullard a bust, but I would call it a mistake to place him on the PS where he was lifted and now starting on another team.
I would not call Pullard a bust, but I would call it a mistake to place him on the PS where he was lifted and now starting on another team.
I think this one might hurt in the future. He looked tough in the limited time we saw him
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Ok Ray Ray I am sorry. I would like to thank you for a punter in Andy "Boom" Lee. Yes a punter
& yes with Ray's comp. picks & this so called lytics may we score TD's & not FG's. ( T made me do this though, Ray) -
I'm a bit of a Farmer defender, but he didn't have any good UDFA steals in this class, did he? My recollection is they were all in 2014 but I might be forgetting someone.
Not really. Darius Jennings came on a little later in the season, but he probably won't make the roster next year.
We did get Ikre-ekeke-olomu alu or whatever his name is in the 7th round last year. I'll be curious to see what he contributes. He's the guy who had a shredded up knee and fell from a top projected CB to the 7th round. Hopefully he has recovered well.
But our main 2014 guys were K'waun Williams and Taylor Gabriel. K'waun is setup to be a good slot corner - but has had injury problems, multiple concussion problems. So that's not looking too good. Gabriel was pretty down this year - he's just a rotational guy #4/#5 at best maybe.
So really I don't think we have any UDFA steals. K'waun may turn into one, but that's yet to be seen.
Not really. Darius Jennings came on a little later in the season, but he probably won't make the roster next year.
We did get Ikre-ekeke-olomu alu or whatever his name is in the 7th round last year. I'll be curious to see what he contributes. He's the guy who had a shredded up knee and fell from a top projected CB to the 7th round. Hopefully he has recovered well.
But our main 2014 guys were K'waun Williams and Taylor Gabriel. K'waun is setup to be a good slot corner - but has had injury problems, multiple concussion problems. So that's not looking too good. Gabriel was pretty down this year - he's just a rotational guy #4/#5 at best maybe.
So really I don't think we have any UDFA steals. K'waun may turn into one, but that's yet to be seen.
K'Waun is very good for where we got him.
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Not really. Darius Jennings came on a little later in the season, but he probably won't make the roster next year.
We did get Ikre-ekeke-olomu alu or whatever his name is in the 7th round last year. I'll be curious to see what he contributes. He's the guy who had a shredded up knee and fell from a top projected CB to the 7th round. Hopefully he has recovered well.
But our main 2014 guys were K'waun Williams and Taylor Gabriel. K'waun is setup to be a good slot corner - but has had injury problems, multiple concussion problems. So that's not looking too good. Gabriel was pretty down this year - he's just a rotational guy #4/#5 at best maybe.
So really I don't think we have any UDFA steals. K'waun may turn into one, but that's yet to be seen.
K'Waun is very good for where we got him.
K'Waun is very good for where we got him.
Extremely, but that's the only real UDFA find Farmer had.
The concussions are no joke though, he may not be in the league too long.
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I follow Banner on Twitter, and that asshole still defends the Mingo pick.
I think Mingo could do better if Mingo were used better. Whether he would live up to his #1 overall status, I don't know. But he can do better.
Let him rush the goddamn passer.
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Right....cant really call Gabe a steal, considering his performance this season.....
Id agree that KWaun was a great find and, maybe, we can add Crowell to that.....as he also was a UDFA....
So, for 2014....now that some time has passed....we only have Crow & Kwaun(ok udfa's)...and picks Bito & Kirksey...(also ok so far)
Gotta call Manziel, Gilbert and West complete busts(at least thats my view).....and Desir is just kind of doing so so.....
So....that draft = 6 guys = 3 complete busts = 2 ok players(with Bito having some positive upside) and a project
This year(2015)....no udfa's or late round picks contributing, that I can think of.....maybe I. Campbell, who looked pretty good in a very limited role.....but thats it....
Every other player tapped later than Rnd 3 is gone, injured or on the bench.....and, out of the 12 players picked, only 3 contributed anything significant or showed what Id consider to be real promise.....Orchard, Duke and Shelton....(plus Campbell)...
The rest?.....injured, gone or just... "meh"....
My final tally for 2 years = 18 draft picks....
- 5 average starter quality players (Bito, Shelton, Kirksey, Orchard & Duke)
- 3 back up or developmental quality players (Campbell, Eving, Cooper)
- 2 injured unknowns (Telfer, Ekpre)
- 3 Lower level role players (Desir, Gaines, M. Johnson)
- 5 Complete busts (Manziel, Gilbert, Mayle, West, Pullard)
Percentage wise....Id say Farmer did ok and about the same as most GM's do...BUT, the fact that he missed so many high picks and didnt score even one above instantly average player....I say blah....
Right....cant really call Gabe a steal, considering his performance this season.....
Id agree that KWaun was a great find and, maybe, we can add Crowell to that.....as he also was a UDFA....
So, for 2014....now that some time has passed....we only have Crow & Kwaun(ok udfa's)...and picks Bito & Kirksey...(also ok so far)
Gotta call Manziel, Gilbert and West complete busts(at least thats my view).....and Desir is just kind of doing so so.....
So....that draft = 6 guys = 3 complete busts = 2 ok players(with Bito having some positive upside) and a project
This year(2015)....no udfa's or late round picks contributing, that I can think of.....maybe I. Campbell, who looked pretty good in a very limited role.....but thats it....
Every other player tapped later than Rnd 3 is gone, injured or on the bench.....and, out of the 12 players picked, only 3 contributed anything significant or showed what Id consider to be real promise.....Orchard, Duke and Shelton....(plus Campbell)...
The rest?.....injured, gone or just... "meh"....
My final tally for 2 years = 18 draft picks....
- 5 average starter quality players (Bito, Shelton, Kirksey, Orchard & Duke)
- 3 back up or developmental quality players (Campbell, Eving, Cooper)
- 2 injured unknowns (Telfer, Ekpre)
- 3 Lower level role players (Desir, Gaines, M. Johnson)
- 5 Complete busts (Manziel, Gilbert, Mayle, West, Pullard)
Percentage wise....Id say Farmer did ok and about the same as most GM's do...BUT, the fact that he missed so many high picks and didnt score even one above instantly average player....I say blah....
You can't say Pullard is a complete bust. Perhaps quite the opposite. Another team thought well enough of him to snatch him off our roster. And the little he played here, he produced.
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Im not saying "he" is a bust......but the "pick" is.....cause he aint here....
Spin it however you want....that pick hasnt ever benefitted the Browns....so, TO ME, it's a wasted pick which = bust
Im not saying "he" is a bust......but the "pick" is.....cause he aint here....
Spin it however you want....that pick hasnt ever benefitted the Browns....so, TO ME, it's a wasted pick which = bust
OK.....just to me another Browns personnel fuckup. Farmer kept dicking and dicking and dicking around with the end of the roster......bringing in and cutting guys like Jayson Dimanche 2 or 3 times.....and not using what a lot think was a quality player sitting on his roster.
I mean....he drafted him....why not show some confidence in him?
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Maybe Farmer did have confidence in him, Gip...
No telling how the loss of Pullard soured their relationship, but Pet could not keep every player Farmer provided on the 53... and some, like Bowe, were not PS eligible. So Farmer took a shot with Pullard and he did not make it.
I doubt it made Farmer happy, but clearly it was a preferable choice to him than releasing Bowe.
And Mingo was being utilized. He's just not very good.
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AS long as we are gathering ex-Browns' Execs thought...
Phil Savage just ripped DePo's hire big time.
If you saw the movie, he could have been reading the A's Head Scout's lines in his confrontation with Beane in the hallway...
If you haven't seen the movie...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
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