Jonathan Paul Manziel
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Johnny was not in Vegas, The guy in Vegas was Billy why don't you understand that?
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Watching Goff the things that impress me are his pocket awareness and touch on passes. It seems like he almost glides away from rushers - certainly not shedding tacklers like Big Ben. And it seems like he puts the right touch on every throw, not missing the easy ones to the RB in space for example, but still finding the receiver coming across the middle with mustard.
Yep...there's very little to not like. Operating from the pocket just looks so natural to him, with eyes always downfield and scanning, he physically always moves his body when scanning similar to how an Aaron Rodgers does. And he's deadly accurate short/medium/deep range, and tends to make the right reads. Most of the interceptions seem like they just come from trying to force in too tight a window (too much confidence) or tipped pass.
He has a set of qualities that most QBs just can't learn and have to either overcome in other ways, become a backup, or retire early.
Yep...there's very little to not like. Operating from the pocket just looks so natural to him, with eyes always downfield and scanning, he physically always moves his body when scanning similar to how an Aaron Rodgers does. And he's deadly accurate short/medium/deep range, and tends to make the right reads. Most of the interceptions seem like they just come from trying to force in too tight a window (too much confidence) or tipped pass.
He has a set of qualities that most QBs just can't learn and have to either overcome in other ways, become a backup, or retire early.
I agree that Goff has a lot of attributes to like. On one of his highlight reels, on the second throw, he feels the pressure while rolling to his right. He then rifles the ball way down field and hits his WR in stride for a 70 yard td. Oh, and it was when his team was down 7 with 2 minutes to go or something. I know it's one play, and highlights can make anyone look good, but that one throw shows a LOT. Like you said, he scans down the field. He appears natural in the pocket and very fluid. I've read reports that he doesn't have the strongest arm, but it looks pretty damn good to me. The biggest pill to swallow is...do we REALLY want to pull his card at the #2 pick? That's a humongous investment, and we have so many holes. Add in the fact that there is a good chance Goff wouldn't beat out McCown for a year, and it gets messy. Our roster needs immediate impact players. It'd be difficult to take someone that early and have him sit. Of course, Goff could come in and immediately win the job, so who knows. I'll put it to you like this...I wouldn't be upset if we took the kid.
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Yep...there's very little to not like. Operating from the pocket just looks so natural to him, with eyes always downfield and scanning, he physically always moves his body when scanning similar to how an Aaron Rodgers does. And he's deadly accurate short/medium/deep range, and tends to make the right reads. Most of the interceptions seem like they just come from trying to force in too tight a window (too much confidence) or tipped pass.
He has a set of qualities that most QBs just can't learn and have to either overcome in other ways, become a backup, or retire early.
I agree that Goff has a lot of attributes to like. On one of his highlight reels, on the second throw, he feels the pressure while rolling to his right. He then rifles the ball way down field and hits his WR in stride for a 70 yard td. Oh, and it was when his team was down 7 with 2 minutes to go or something. I know it's one play, and highlights can make anyone look good, but that one throw shows a LOT. Like you said, he scans down the field. He appears natural in the pocket and very fluid. I've read reports that he doesn't have the strongest arm, but it looks pretty damn good to me. The biggest pill to swallow is...do we REALLY want to pull his card at the #2 pick? That's a humongous investment, and we have so many holes. Add in the fact that there is a good chance Goff wouldn't beat out McCown for a year, and it gets messy. Our roster needs immediate impact players. It'd be difficult to take someone that early and have him sit. Of course, Goff could come in and immediately win the job, so who knows. I'll put it to you like this...I wouldn't be upset if we took the kid.
I agree that Goff has a lot of attributes to like. On one of his highlight reels, on the second throw, he feels the pressure while rolling to his right. He then rifles the ball way down field and hits his WR in stride for a 70 yard td. Oh, and it was when his team was down 7 with 2 minutes to go or something. I know it's one play, and highlights can make anyone look good, but that one throw shows a LOT. Like you said, he scans down the field. He appears natural in the pocket and very fluid. I've read reports that he doesn't have the strongest arm, but it looks pretty damn good to me. The biggest pill to swallow is...do we REALLY want to pull his card at the #2 pick? That's a humongous investment, and we have so many holes. Add in the fact that there is a good chance Goff wouldn't beat out McCown for a year, and it gets messy. Our roster needs immediate impact players. It'd be difficult to take someone that early and have him sit. Of course, Goff could come in and immediately win the job, so who knows. I'll put it to you like this...I wouldn't be upset if we took the kid.
I think that history/statistics would show that it's a lot easier to find impact players or stars at literally every position than it is to find a franchise QB. It might be an exponential curve as you get to the bottom of the draft too. Occasionally you get a Russell Wilson and once in a life time you get a Tom Brady but not often. But you can find somebody like Jared Allen in the 4th round a lot more often.
That's just why I think if Goff is the guy you take him there. "But we don't have an elite pass rush" "We have McCown" don't seem like too good of reasons to pass on him IMO as some seem to think
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in your idea of the best idea the Browns are the only losers while everyone else involved wins, subjecting the Browns and the fanbase to EVEN MORE ridicule and embarrassment.
time to simply turn the other cheek and allow the Tri-Lambs to spin this thing back into our favor. it's pretty hard to poke fun at someone who doesn't care.
If you think the guy is worthless, and trouble with a capital T, why waste a roster spot on Johnny until he self destructs?
Zombo said:
And??
THAT makes it OK for the starting QB to fly out of town before his teammates get ready to play a rivalry game and skip a treatment meeting?
I haven't been following along here real closely, but ... Your are still not defending this guy are you?
I mean if it's the alcohol, you cut bait but you hope for the best ... if he's just a petulant shithead you hope he never plays in this league again.
We didn't change owners ... we didn't change teammates ... do you think there is anyone left in the organization that trusts this guy?
Zombo
Short answer, NO. Supposedly Chonnine got a real cool reception on his post season interview. MHO is the Browns have had enough of his act.
Should? What I'm saying is that pulling the ripcord after this small amount of experience is probably jumping the gun. These guys are letting their emotions take over. And Ryan Leaf was a lot worse off the field then Johnny.
If you guys are confident that he will never ever play another decent game in the NFL then...
But truth be told I think a lot of the haters are worried he will eventually take Dallas to the playoffs and the Browns once again look like fools.
I personally think he'd do well with the Dallas team. How about you? Just from a gameplay and talent aspect?
WSS
Steve, we don't know all the behind the scenes stuff regarding Manziel- but the Browns sure as hell do. The guy wasted his first year here, then went to rehab (um Haslam & company know the reason why), and then when handed the keys to the car, promptly gave Pettine the finger, and lied about it. Probably lying about the Vegas junket. If you have some knowledge of alcoholics, you have to know lying to cover their ass is a universal trait.
At this point it doesn't matter if Manziel can play meaningful snaps again in the NFL- he's not worth the risk. Now if he manages to clean up his act and become a decent qb for another team, that would be the Browns luck. I'm sure Sashi's analytics are already spinning the risk\reward of keeping Manziel around.
If you think the guy is worthless, and trouble with a capital T, why waste a roster spot on Johnny until he self destructs?
i don't think he's worthless on the field at all, actually i think he's way above average as a #3 QB.
i don't think he's trouble w a capital T, just an immature celebrity who has his priorities other places than how we would like the face of the Brown's franchise to conduct himself...and possibly an addict. as you correctly stated he is self-destructive more than a threat to others. would we prefer if our QB were a two time rapist [at least] or maybe a dog abuser perhaps?
what's the hurry, there are roster spots available in spades for the next 8+ months? he's already bought and paid for. cutting him now benefits him and potentially other teams. if you are gonna cut him do it late summer when roster spots are at a premium and so if another team signs him he's coming in way late and has to learn on the fly. why not make it hard for he and others to succeed rather than paving the way w an entire off season ahead of him?
he's shown flashes of talent and ability to drive the team down the field and score TDs rather than field goals, and without having to helicopter himself across the line. what was that a 22 play drive he led?? it was easily the longest in franchise history by several plays...with a below avg receiving core, Crow, and a rookie RB, but i guess that's easy to do and means nada. for a short QB he finds throwing lanes and had a fraction of the balls Weedz had batted down even though Wheezy is like 5" taller, for example.
because as you stated, chances are he will self destruct. i'd rather wait and see if he does or not until the very last minute. giving up early makes the Browns look like they failed rather than seeing for sure if he truly is a failure. the offseason can be a kind of probationary period leading up thru camp to next season. who knows, maybe he turns it around and feels indebted to us for sticking w him and if pressed into action plays all world for us. which brings me to my last points.
because the Browns play in the AFCN where they need as many QBs on the team that can win games as possible. because of this, he has value regardless of his off the field childish shenanigans that may bring national attention and ridicule, but in reality at least aren't crimes or dangerous to others. seriously, like the Browns national image is respected by otherd and untarnished or something. we look worse if we give up. we make him fetch coffee for a while we reclaim just a little respect back at least.
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Johnny confuses me. He was out at Dave & Busters last night. So during the season, you skip the game to go to Vegas but after the year when you have no obligations your playing arcade games at Dave & Busters?
Johnny confuses me. He was out at Dave & Busters last night. So during the season, you skip the game to go to Vegas but after the year when you have no obligations your playing arcade games at Dave & Busters?
all part of his celebrity and what makes Johnny Manziel Johnny Motha Fukin Football.
he's atypical and impractical and does whatever the fuck he wants, don't try to reason it out you'll hurt your head. moxy can't be bought, faked, or learned...it just is. his id (Freud) makes the calls for this maniac.
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Shaw is a better #3 QB than Johnny. And he costs less.
To the other question about why he couldn't wait a week to go to vegas.
Person: "Hey Johnny you HAVE to come to Vegas this Saturday we're gonna have cocaine and four lokos and strippers"
Johnny: "Well you know I got a game to play"
Person: "Screw that bro"
Johnny: "You're right, I'm too hungover for this shit"
Johnny: "Hey guys, I have a concussion - put me in the protocol thanks, can't play"
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Shaw sucks...in my opinion.
and Johnny doesn't cost any more than him, that money is spent. that money is already gone and nothing besides a trade will get any of it back.
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Shaw sucks...in my opinion.
and Johnny doesn't cost any more than him, that money is spent. that money is already gone and nothing besides a trade will get any of it back.
Shaw sucks...in my opinion.
and Johnny doesn't cost any more than him, that money is spent. that money is already gone and nothing besides a trade will get any of it back.
He actually cares about the game and isn't in the news with a new selfie video getting drunk every week?
Who cares about the 3rd string quarterback. I wouldn't want to deal with all that bullshit anymore just to keep him as a 3rd stringer.
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The only thing more embarrassing than getting rid of JM in the next few months is keeping him on the team. He'll be nothing but a national joke again and a distraction to the team. If he farts in a public restroom media members will be asking players how they feel about it. The media circus was brought on by Johnny himself.
You cut him now to end the circus or cut him after June 1st to spread his money out. In the off chance a team is willing to trade any draft pick for him you jump on it. You do not allow him to fill a roster spot for any player that's willing to put in the time or effort.
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But he doesn't have a problem. I feel bad for all the people that hooked their buggy at one point to this donkey. Cleveland qb or not I have hated this kid from day one.
He really brought this franchise down.....yes.....even lower than before...(and he proves that was even possible)...
At least....finally......all the Johnny loving apologists have stopped defending his nonsense.....amazed it took 52 fuck ups over 16 months for them to realize the truth.....
And too bad Pettine had to take all the abuse for "baby sitting" and being so mean to Johnny....(and it was a LOT of abuse)...most of those shitheads are quietly elsewhere now....haven't seen one say "wow...I was wrong".....not yet, at least...(Johnny and his boys all seem to have the same lack of class, maturity, etc)
But I think we are finally there.....Johnny IS a fuck up extraordinaire and there is no longer any debate about it...
So....hopefully there will no longer be any debates 'about him'......could we be so lucky?.......
He really brought this franchise down.....yes.....even lower than before...(and he proves that was even possible)...
At least....finally......all the Johnny loving apologists have stopped defending his nonsense.....amazed it took 52 fuck ups over 16 months for them to realize the truth.....
And too bad Pettine had to take all the abuse for "baby sitting" and being so mean to Johnny....(and it was a LOT of abuse)...most of those shitheads are quietly elsewhere now....haven't seen one say "wow...I was wrong".....not yet, at least...(Johnny and his boys all seem to have the same lack of class, maturity, etc)
But I think we are finally there.....Johnny IS a fuck up extraordinaire and there is no longer any debate about it...
So....hopefully there will no longer be any debates 'about him'......could we be so lucky?.......
I wouldn't call myself a "Johnny Apologist", but I was definitely a "Johnny Hopeful". I was hopeful that he'd put it together. I was hopeful that our search for a QB was over. I was hoping, beyond hope, that Johnny had enough wake up calls and knew that he was getting down to his last chance with our team. Obviously, I was wrong. My hope was severely displaced, and Johnny couldn't change. While technically still on our team, it's safe to say that Manziel will be traded for a $5 footlong or simply cut from our roster. Yet another first round pick that washes out in two years. The list is getting quite ugly.
I've spoken about addiction before, and I'll make mention of it again. Many weeks ago when Johnny had that incident with his girlfriend, Mary Kay Cabot wrote an article which specifically stated Manziel should immediately go back into rehab. She was chided and she took some heat. After all, she's not the...uh...best reporter out there (in many eyes), but it appears that she could actually be right for once. Not many addicts get sobriety right the first time, in fact, few do. The vast majority of addicts that get treatment show improvement temporarily, but then drift back to their old habits. Slowly at first, and then before they know it, they're actually WORSE than they were originally. Manipulating people, lying, and covering tracks are all staples of addictive behavior. I could be wrong, and I obviously have zero inside information, but if I was a betting man, I'd wager Manziel is not complying with his treatment plan. He's not going to meetings. He's not speaking with his sponsor. He's not doing the things he was taught in his 10 weeks of rehab.
Many people don't believe that addiction is a type of disease. After all, people were born with free will, and Johnny is choosing to drink, lie, cheat, and party. Yes, but it's not that simple. Addiction IS a disease, and it's an awful one. In fact, it's the only disease I can think of that actually causes the brain to tell the person they DON'T HAVE IT. Think about that for a second. If he's an addict, and it appears that he is, Johnny's brain is telling him that he doesn't have a problem. That people are blowing it out of proportion. That most men in their 20's like to party, and why should he be different? There is a good chance that Johnny is very ill. That he needs treatment. Did the Chiefs cut Eric Berry after his cancer diagnosis? Of course not. But what if cancer made someone inclined to lie, to cheat, and to act like a jerk. Would it be different then?
Before people start to tell me how different the circumstances are, I realize they have many discrepancies between them, but I also see the similarities. I see someone with great athletic ability who is afflicted with a terrible disease. I see this disease tearing his life apart, and taking his dreams from him. Many of us either know someone close to us who struggled with addiction, or we ourselves did. It's THAT common. The easy thing to do would be to trade him or cut him. Let another team deal with the drama, and let's start the building process over again.
I've written several statements on here saying I'm completely done with Manziel, and that I didn't even want to write his name. But I think I've changed my mind. If he changes his tune, if he makes a serious CONTINUED commitment to getting better, than I say to keep him. That's right, let's keep the kid. I would think the entire world thinks we should get rid of him. As evidence of our recent personnel hires, we don't do what people expect anymore. Our coaches aren't babysitters, and our players shouldn't have to be hammered with questions regarding Manziel...I get that. But at the same time, I see a young man in trouble. Bigger trouble than maybe he thinks. Addicts that don't receive treatment, and don't ALWAYS work on their affliction wind up in three places: jails, institutions, and cemeteries. I want him to turn it around. Not just because he's a first round pick, but because we can help him...if he decides to help himself. I'm sure I'll get panned for this, but Johnny is somebody's son. As much of a privileged, arrogant, unapologetic prick as he appears to be....I still want him to have a good life.
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Shaw sucks...in my opinion.
and Johnny doesn't cost any more than him, that money is spent. that money is already gone and nothing besides a trade will get any of it back.
He actually cares about the game and isn't in the news with a new selfie video getting drunk every week?
Who cares about the 3rd string quarterback. I wouldn't want to deal with all that bullshit anymore just to keep him as a 3rd stringer.
He actually cares about the game and isn't in the news with a new selfie video getting drunk every week?
that's because Shaw sucks and no one would read that story.
who cares if the national media is reporting about the Browns 3rd stringer taking selfies and getting drunk anyway? i want the team to win, and JmfM gives the team a better chance to than Shaw does, by far.
has Shaw ever scored an NFL TD? great guy off the field but on the field he has to improve just to be ordinary.
McCown, Manziel, Davis...when's the last time the Browns went a season without needing at least 3 QBs? when that inevitable moment is upon us, you play Shaw and lose, i'll play JmfM and at least have a chance.
3rd stringers can't distract from the bottom of the roster very easily, and any reporter who tries to make sensationalistic headlines about a backup's backup is a complete fucking hack. ala MKC. all of this drama is while he's viewed as a starter, and dissipates entirely when he's not.
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I don't see the point of keeping him as a 3rd stringer. Odds are he'd be inactive most of the time anyway.
We're going to draft another prospect which pretty much eliminates the need for Johnny at this point - see if he's got value
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He really brought this franchise down.....yes.....even lower than before...(and he proves that was even possible)...
At least....finally......all the Johnny loving apologists have stopped defending his nonsense.....amazed it took 52 fuck ups over 16 months for them to realize the truth.....
And too bad Pettine had to take all the abuse for "baby sitting" and being so mean to Johnny....(and it was a LOT of abuse)...most of those shitheads are quietly elsewhere now....haven't seen one say "wow...I was wrong".....not yet, at least...(Johnny and his boys all seem to have the same lack of class, maturity, etc)
But I think we are finally there.....Johnny IS a fuck up extraordinaire and there is no longer any debate about it...
So....hopefully there will no longer be any debates 'about him'......could we be so lucky?.......
I wouldn't call myself a "Johnny Apologist", but I was definitely a "Johnny Hopeful". I was hopeful that he'd put it together. I was hopeful that our search for a QB was over. I was hoping, beyond hope, that Johnny had enough wake up calls and knew that he was getting down to his last chance with our team. Obviously, I was wrong. My hope was severely displaced, and Johnny couldn't change. While technically still on our team, it's safe to say that Manziel will be traded for a $5 footlong or simply cut from our roster. Yet another first round pick that washes out in two years. The list is getting quite ugly.
I've spoken about addiction before, and I'll make mention of it again. Many weeks ago when Johnny had that incident with his girlfriend, Mary Kay Cabot wrote an article which specifically stated Manziel should immediately go back into rehab. She was chided and she took some heat. After all, she's not the...uh...best reporter out there (in many eyes), but it appears that she could actually be right for once. Not many addicts get sobriety right the first time, in fact, few do. The vast majority of addicts that get treatment show improvement temporarily, but then drift back to their old habits. Slowly at first, and then before they know it, they're actually WORSE than they were originally. Manipulating people, lying, and covering tracks are all staples of addictive behavior. I could be wrong, and I obviously have zero inside information, but if I was a betting man, I'd wager Manziel is not complying with his treatment plan. He's not going to meetings. He's not speaking with his sponsor. He's not doing the things he was taught in his 10 weeks of rehab.
Many people don't believe that addiction is a type of disease. After all, people were born with free will, and Johnny is choosing to drink, lie, cheat, and party. Yes, but it's not that simple. Addiction IS a disease, and it's an awful one. In fact, it's the only disease I can think of that actually causes the brain to tell the person they DON'T HAVE IT. Think about that for a second. If he's an addict, and it appears that he is, Johnny's brain is telling him that he doesn't have a problem. That people are blowing it out of proportion. That most men in their 20's like to party, and why should he be different? There is a good chance that Johnny is very ill. That he needs treatment. Did the Chiefs cut Eric Berry after his cancer diagnosis? Of course not. But what if cancer made someone inclined to lie, to cheat, and to act like a jerk. Would it be different then?
Before people start to tell me how different the circumstances are, I realize they have many discrepancies between them, but I also see the similarities. I see someone with great athletic ability who is afflicted with a terrible disease. I see this disease tearing his life apart, and taking his dreams from him. Many of us either know someone close to us who struggled with addiction, or we ourselves did. It's THAT common. The easy thing to do would be to trade him or cut him. Let another team deal with the drama, and let's start the building process over again.
I've written several statements on here saying I'm completely done with Manziel, and that I didn't even want to write his name. But I think I've changed my mind. If he changes his tune, if he makes a serious CONTINUED commitment to getting better, than I say to keep him. That's right, let's keep the kid. I would think the entire world thinks we should get rid of him. As evidence of our recent personnel hires, we don't do what people expect anymore. Our coaches aren't babysitters, and our players shouldn't have to be hammered with questions regarding Manziel...I get that. But at the same time, I see a young man in trouble. Bigger trouble than maybe he thinks. Addicts that don't receive treatment, and don't ALWAYS work on their affliction wind up in three places: jails, institutions, and cemeteries. I want him to turn it around. Not just because he's a first round pick, but because we can help him...if he decides to help himself. I'm sure I'll get panned for this, but Johnny is somebody's son. As much of a privileged, arrogant, unapologetic prick as he appears to be....I still want him to have a good life.
I wouldn't call myself a "Johnny Apologist", but I was definitely a "Johnny Hopeful". I was hopeful that he'd put it together. I was hopeful that our search for a QB was over. I was hoping, beyond hope, that Johnny had enough wake up calls and knew that he was getting down to his last chance with our team. Obviously, I was wrong. My hope was severely displaced, and Johnny couldn't change. While technically still on our team, it's safe to say that Manziel will be traded for a $5 footlong or simply cut from our roster. Yet another first round pick that washes out in two years. The list is getting quite ugly.
I've spoken about addiction before, and I'll make mention of it again. Many weeks ago when Johnny had that incident with his girlfriend, Mary Kay Cabot wrote an article which specifically stated Manziel should immediately go back into rehab. She was chided and she took some heat. After all, she's not the...uh...best reporter out there (in many eyes), but it appears that she could actually be right for once. Not many addicts get sobriety right the first time, in fact, few do. The vast majority of addicts that get treatment show improvement temporarily, but then drift back to their old habits. Slowly at first, and then before they know it, they're actually WORSE than they were originally. Manipulating people, lying, and covering tracks are all staples of addictive behavior. I could be wrong, and I obviously have zero inside information, but if I was a betting man, I'd wager Manziel is not complying with his treatment plan. He's not going to meetings. He's not speaking with his sponsor. He's not doing the things he was taught in his 10 weeks of rehab.
Many people don't believe that addiction is a type of disease. After all, people were born with free will, and Johnny is choosing to drink, lie, cheat, and party. Yes, but it's not that simple. Addiction IS a disease, and it's an awful one. In fact, it's the only disease I can think of that actually causes the brain to tell the person they DON'T HAVE IT. Think about that for a second. If he's an addict, and it appears that he is, Johnny's brain is telling him that he doesn't have a problem. That people are blowing it out of proportion. That most men in their 20's like to party, and why should he be different? There is a good chance that Johnny is very ill. That he needs treatment. Did the Chiefs cut Eric Berry after his cancer diagnosis? Of course not. But what if cancer made someone inclined to lie, to cheat, and to act like a jerk. Would it be different then?
Before people start to tell me how different the circumstances are, I realize they have many discrepancies between them, but I also see the similarities. I see someone with great athletic ability who is afflicted with a terrible disease. I see this disease tearing his life apart, and taking his dreams from him. Many of us either know someone close to us who struggled with addiction, or we ourselves did. It's THAT common. The easy thing to do would be to trade him or cut him. Let another team deal with the drama, and let's start the building process over again.
I've written several statements on here saying I'm completely done with Manziel, and that I didn't even want to write his name. But I think I've changed my mind. If he changes his tune, if he makes a serious CONTINUED commitment to getting better, than I say to keep him. That's right, let's keep the kid. I would think the entire world thinks we should get rid of him. As evidence of our recent personnel hires, we don't do what people expect anymore. Our coaches aren't babysitters, and our players shouldn't have to be hammered with questions regarding Manziel...I get that. But at the same time, I see a young man in trouble. Bigger trouble than maybe he thinks. Addicts that don't receive treatment, and don't ALWAYS work on their affliction wind up in three places: jails, institutions, and cemeteries. I want him to turn it around. Not just because he's a first round pick, but because we can help him...if he decides to help himself. I'm sure I'll get panned for this, but Johnny is somebody's son. As much of a privileged, arrogant, unapologetic prick as he appears to be....I still want him to have a good life.
Prepare for a terrible written, long winded rebuttal that details how Johnny fucked over Pettine and poor Pettine deserves another chance, too.
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If you think the guy is worthless, and trouble with a capital T, why waste a roster spot on Johnny until he self destructs?
i don't think he's worthless on the field at all, actually i think he's way above average as a #3 QB.
i don't think he's trouble w a capital T, just an immature celebrity who has his priorities other places than how we would like the face of the Brown's franchise to conduct himself...and possibly an addict. as you correctly stated he is self-destructive more than a threat to others. would we prefer if our QB were a two time rapist [at least] or maybe a dog abuser perhaps?
what's the hurry, there are roster spots available in spades for the next 8+ months? he's already bought and paid for. cutting him now benefits him and potentially other teams. if you are gonna cut him do it late summer when roster spots are at a premium and so if another team signs him he's coming in way late and has to learn on the fly. why not make it hard for he and others to succeed rather than paving the way w an entire off season ahead of him?
he's shown flashes of talent and ability to drive the team down the field and score TDs rather than field goals, and without having to helicopter himself across the line. what was that a 22 play drive he led?? it was easily the longest in franchise history by several plays...with a below avg receiving core, Crow, and a rookie RB, but i guess that's easy to do and means nada. for a short QB he finds throwing lanes and had a fraction of the balls Weedz had batted down even though Wheezy is like 5" taller, for example.
because as you stated, chances are he will self destruct. i'd rather wait and see if he does or not until the very last minute. giving up early makes the Browns look like they failed rather than seeing for sure if he truly is a failure. the offseason can be a kind of probationary period leading up thru camp to next season. who knows, maybe he turns it around and feels indebted to us for sticking w him and if pressed into action plays all world for us. which brings me to my last points.
because the Browns play in the AFCN where they need as many QBs on the team that can win games as possible. because of this, he has value regardless of his off the field childish shenanigans that may bring national attention and ridicule, but in reality at least aren't crimes or dangerous to others. seriously, like the Browns national image is respected by otherd and untarnished or something. we look worse if we give up. we make him fetch coffee for a while we reclaim just a little respect back at least.
i don't think he's worthless on the field at all, actually i think he's way above average as a #3 QB.
LMAO... I seen backhanded complements before, but not like that one...
Thanks.... I needed that...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Johnny is done in Cleveland.
But the matter of addiction is it's something you deal with for your whole life (I'm not an addict but dated one and know several)
The issue with taking rehab seriously is most people think "I'm doing fine, what's the problem?"
Hopefully getting cut/traded from the Browns for a bag of peanuts combined with getting cut from Lebron's marketing crew will be good enough wake-up calls to help get him sober.
But for the fact he isn't that good of a quarterback, combined with shitting on the franchise means he needs to get his shit together somewhere that isn't Cleveland.
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I don't see the point of keeping him as a 3rd stringer. Odds are he'd be inactive most of the time anyway.
We're going to draft another prospect which pretty much eliminates the need for Johnny at this point - see if he's got value
I don't see the point of keeping him as a 3rd stringer. Odds are he'd be inactive most of the time anyway.
We're going to draft another prospect which pretty much eliminates the need for Johnny at this point - see if he's got value
Yup... and how much time and energy do we want our next HC to spend answering JM questions?
And frisky, JFF never did show in the NFL... just JFM...
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This is pretty early as of yet, but I can sense myself becoming more "all in" on Goff at 2.
It'd be cool to think we could grab Bosa there and someone like Wentz with the second pick... But I fear waiting too long and ending up compromising in a bad way AGAIN at the QB position. I'm liking Goff more than Mariota or Winston last season. I think it'd be a win.
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Yep...there's very little to not like. Operating from the pocket just looks so natural to him, with eyes always downfield and scanning, he physically always moves his body when scanning similar to how an Aaron Rodgers does. And he's deadly accurate short/medium/deep range, and tends to make the right reads. Most of the interceptions seem like they just come from trying to force in too tight a window (too much confidence) or tipped pass.
He has a set of qualities that most QBs just can't learn and have to either overcome in other ways, become a backup, or retire early.
I agree that Goff has a lot of attributes to like. On one of his highlight reels, on the second throw, he feels the pressure while rolling to his right. He then rifles the ball way down field and hits his WR in stride for a 70 yard td. Oh, and it was when his team was down 7 with 2 minutes to go or something. I know it's one play, and highlights can make anyone look good, but that one throw shows a LOT. Like you said, he scans down the field. He appears natural in the pocket and very fluid. I've read reports that he doesn't have the strongest arm, but it looks pretty damn good to me. The biggest pill to swallow is...do we REALLY want to pull his card at the #2 pick? That's a humongous investment, and we have so many holes. Add in the fact that there is a good chance Goff wouldn't beat out McCown for a year, and it gets messy. Our roster needs immediate impact players. It'd be difficult to take someone that early and have him sit. Of course, Goff could come in and immediately win the job, so who knows. I'll put it to you like this...I wouldn't be upset if we took the kid.
Add in the fact that there is a good chance Goff wouldn't beat out McCown for a year, and it gets messy. Our roster needs immediate impact players. It'd be difficult to take someone that early and have him sit.
I just see nothing wrong with a QB prospect sitting for a while... especially if it's a case of the rookie playing well, but the Vet simply playing better.
And let's be clear that was not the situation the past two years.
Great follow-up post... Disagree with your concluding paragraph, but really well done.
Prepare for a terrible written, long winded rebuttal that details how Johnny fucked over Pettine and poor Pettine deserves another chance, too.
Out of respect for jiggins really well-written post, then I'll even keep my response to you short-winded...
He did.
He did.
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He really brought this franchise down.....yes.....even lower than before...(and he proves that was even possible)...
At least....finally......all the Johnny loving apologists have stopped defending his nonsense.....amazed it took 52 fuck ups over 16 months for them to realize the truth.....
And too bad Pettine had to take all the abuse for "baby sitting" and being so mean to Johnny....(and it was a LOT of abuse)...most of those shitheads are quietly elsewhere now....haven't seen one say "wow...I was wrong".....not yet, at least...(Johnny and his boys all seem to have the same lack of class, maturity, etc)
But I think we are finally there.....Johnny IS a fuck up extraordinaire and there is no longer any debate about it...
So....hopefully there will no longer be any debates 'about him'......could we be so lucky?.......
I wouldn't call myself a "Johnny Apologist", but I was definitely a "Johnny Hopeful". I was hopeful that he'd put it together. I was hopeful that our search for a QB was over. I was hoping, beyond hope, that Johnny had enough wake up calls and knew that he was getting down to his last chance with our team. Obviously, I was wrong. My hope was severely displaced, and Johnny couldn't change. While technically still on our team, it's safe to say that Manziel will be traded for a $5 footlong or simply cut from our roster. Yet another first round pick that washes out in two years. The list is getting quite ugly.
I've spoken about addiction before, and I'll make mention of it again. Many weeks ago when Johnny had that incident with his girlfriend, Mary Kay Cabot wrote an article which specifically stated Manziel should immediately go back into rehab. She was chided and she took some heat. After all, she's not the...uh...best reporter out there (in many eyes), but it appears that she could actually be right for once. Not many addicts get sobriety right the first time, in fact, few do. The vast majority of addicts that get treatment show improvement temporarily, but then drift back to their old habits. Slowly at first, and then before they know it, they're actually WORSE than they were originally. Manipulating people, lying, and covering tracks are all staples of addictive behavior. I could be wrong, and I obviously have zero inside information, but if I was a betting man, I'd wager Manziel is not complying with his treatment plan. He's not going to meetings. He's not speaking with his sponsor. He's not doing the things he was taught in his 10 weeks of rehab.
Many people don't believe that addiction is a type of disease. After all, people were born with free will, and Johnny is choosing to drink, lie, cheat, and party. Yes, but it's not that simple. Addiction IS a disease, and it's an awful one. In fact, it's the only disease I can think of that actually causes the brain to tell the person they DON'T HAVE IT. Think about that for a second. If he's an addict, and it appears that he is, Johnny's brain is telling him that he doesn't have a problem. That people are blowing it out of proportion. That most men in their 20's like to party, and why should he be different? There is a good chance that Johnny is very ill. That he needs treatment. Did the Chiefs cut Eric Berry after his cancer diagnosis? Of course not. But what if cancer made someone inclined to lie, to cheat, and to act like a jerk. Would it be different then?
Before people start to tell me how different the circumstances are, I realize they have many discrepancies between them, but I also see the similarities. I see someone with great athletic ability who is afflicted with a terrible disease. I see this disease tearing his life apart, and taking his dreams from him. Many of us either know someone close to us who struggled with addiction, or we ourselves did. It's THAT common. The easy thing to do would be to trade him or cut him. Let another team deal with the drama, and let's start the building process over again.
I've written several statements on here saying I'm completely done with Manziel, and that I didn't even want to write his name. But I think I've changed my mind. If he changes his tune, if he makes a serious CONTINUED commitment to getting better, than I say to keep him. That's right, let's keep the kid. I would think the entire world thinks we should get rid of him. As evidence of our recent personnel hires, we don't do what people expect anymore. Our coaches aren't babysitters, and our players shouldn't have to be hammered with questions regarding Manziel...I get that. But at the same time, I see a young man in trouble. Bigger trouble than maybe he thinks. Addicts that don't receive treatment, and don't ALWAYS work on their affliction wind up in three places: jails, institutions, and cemeteries. I want him to turn it around. Not just because he's a first round pick, but because we can help him...if he decides to help himself. I'm sure I'll get panned for this, but Johnny is somebody's son. As much of a privileged, arrogant, unapologetic prick as he appears to be....I still want him to have a good life.
I wouldn't call myself a "Johnny Apologist", but I was definitely a "Johnny Hopeful". I was hopeful that he'd put it together. I was hopeful that our search for a QB was over. I was hoping, beyond hope, that Johnny had enough wake up calls and knew that he was getting down to his last chance with our team. Obviously, I was wrong. My hope was severely displaced, and Johnny couldn't change. While technically still on our team, it's safe to say that Manziel will be traded for a $5 footlong or simply cut from our roster. Yet another first round pick that washes out in two years. The list is getting quite ugly.
I've spoken about addiction before, and I'll make mention of it again. Many weeks ago when Johnny had that incident with his girlfriend, Mary Kay Cabot wrote an article which specifically stated Manziel should immediately go back into rehab. She was chided and she took some heat. After all, she's not the...uh...best reporter out there (in many eyes), but it appears that she could actually be right for once. Not many addicts get sobriety right the first time, in fact, few do. The vast majority of addicts that get treatment show improvement temporarily, but then drift back to their old habits. Slowly at first, and then before they know it, they're actually WORSE than they were originally. Manipulating people, lying, and covering tracks are all staples of addictive behavior. I could be wrong, and I obviously have zero inside information, but if I was a betting man, I'd wager Manziel is not complying with his treatment plan. He's not going to meetings. He's not speaking with his sponsor. He's not doing the things he was taught in his 10 weeks of rehab.
Many people don't believe that addiction is a type of disease. After all, people were born with free will, and Johnny is choosing to drink, lie, cheat, and party. Yes, but it's not that simple. Addiction IS a disease, and it's an awful one. In fact, it's the only disease I can think of that actually causes the brain to tell the person they DON'T HAVE IT. Think about that for a second. If he's an addict, and it appears that he is, Johnny's brain is telling him that he doesn't have a problem. That people are blowing it out of proportion. That most men in their 20's like to party, and why should he be different? There is a good chance that Johnny is very ill. That he needs treatment. Did the Chiefs cut Eric Berry after his cancer diagnosis? Of course not. But what if cancer made someone inclined to lie, to cheat, and to act like a jerk. Would it be different then?
Before people start to tell me how different the circumstances are, I realize they have many discrepancies between them, but I also see the similarities. I see someone with great athletic ability who is afflicted with a terrible disease. I see this disease tearing his life apart, and taking his dreams from him. Many of us either know someone close to us who struggled with addiction, or we ourselves did. It's THAT common. The easy thing to do would be to trade him or cut him. Let another team deal with the drama, and let's start the building process over again.
I've written several statements on here saying I'm completely done with Manziel, and that I didn't even want to write his name. But I think I've changed my mind. If he changes his tune, if he makes a serious CONTINUED commitment to getting better, than I say to keep him. That's right, let's keep the kid. I would think the entire world thinks we should get rid of him. As evidence of our recent personnel hires, we don't do what people expect anymore. Our coaches aren't babysitters, and our players shouldn't have to be hammered with questions regarding Manziel...I get that. But at the same time, I see a young man in trouble. Bigger trouble than maybe he thinks. Addicts that don't receive treatment, and don't ALWAYS work on their affliction wind up in three places: jails, institutions, and cemeteries. I want him to turn it around. Not just because he's a first round pick, but because we can help him...if he decides to help himself. I'm sure I'll get panned for this, but Johnny is somebody's son. As much of a privileged, arrogant, unapologetic prick as he appears to be....I still want him to have a good life.
I totally agree with you, EXCEPT keeping him. If the Browns do keep him, so be it, but as Chris Carter has said many times, the best thing that ever happened to him was getting cut by the Eagles. He said that is when he "hit bottom", got the help he needed, & stuck to it. Getting dropped from the LeBron James tree might do it, but I think it might take more, such as getting his walking papers. That MAY do Johnny "the person" a huge favor, but only time will tell. At this point, I'm of the belief that his remaining a Brown will only enable & possibly escalate his downhill slide.
All this being said, that's just my opinion.
Mike
INÂ DORSEY I TRUST
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