If we draft Goff
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If the Browns draft Goff he'll struggle and it will be blamed on a new HC and a poor offensive line, however profootballfocus.com will rank 4 of our 5 OL as future hall of famers.
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Goff is the man.
Drafting the rejects nobody else wanted (a LA Brady Quinn, Colt McCoy, Brandon Weeden, and Johnny Manziel) is not even close to drafting the consensus #1 QB prospect.
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This formula doesn't work in Cleveland. We cant take a QB and build around him. We have to build the trenches up first then bring in a QB eitehr through draft or FA. Goff will not develop here. We're in antoher rebuild phase. We're going to lose at least 2 starters from our O line, so anybody think Goff is going to come in and do something? No he won't even start next year if/when McCown gets hurt. Than he'll run for his life and be in the protocol within 3 games. Career flounders after that. You wanna waste the 1st pick on that? Why take a QB with the 1st when he's not that virtually sure thing? We're gonna suck for at least a couple years so we'll have a perennially high pick. So why not wait till the right guy is gonna come out instead of overreaching on a project?
Because we clearly haven't spent a lot of money and draft picks on our lines. Thank God we found those UDFA's Joe Thomas, Alex Mack, Joel Bitonio, Danny Shelton, Phil Taylor, Mitchell Schwartz, and Cam Erving.
Because we clearly haven't spent a lot of money and draft picks on our lines. Thank God we found those UDFA's Joe Thomas, Alex Mack, Joel Bitonio, Danny Shelton, Phil Taylor, Mitchell Schwartz, and Cam Erving.
and? we haven't gotten our lines right. I think that's pretty evident right? Until we do we're gonna suck. I don't care who our QB is, we will suck.
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Because we clearly haven't spent a lot of money and draft picks on our lines. Thank God we found those UDFA's Joe Thomas, Alex Mack, Joel Bitonio, Danny Shelton, Phil Taylor, Mitchell Schwartz, and Cam Erving.
and? we haven't gotten our lines right. I think that's pretty evident right? Until we do we're gonna suck. I don't care who our QB is, we will suck.
and? we haven't gotten our lines right. I think that's pretty evident right? Until we do we're gonna suck. I don't care who our QB is, we will suck.
If everybody stays - Thomas, Schwartz, and Mack our line is pretty close to being right. We're borderline 4 pro bowlers there with Bitonio.
You don't skip a franchise QB because you need a pass rusher, or any of that other silly logic.
The consensus #1 is there for the taking this year.
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and? we haven't gotten our lines right. I think that's pretty evident right? Until we do we're gonna suck. I don't care who our QB is, we will suck.
If everybody stays - Thomas, Schwartz, and Mack our line is pretty close to being right. We're borderline 4 pro bowlers there with Bitonio.
You don't skip a franchise QB because you need a pass rusher, or any of that other silly logic.
The consensus #1 is there for the taking this year.
If the guy is your franchise quarterback no doubt.If everybody stays - Thomas, Schwartz, and Mack our line is pretty close to being right. We're borderline 4 pro bowlers there with Bitonio.
You don't skip a franchise QB because you need a pass rusher, or any of that other silly logic.
The consensus #1 is there for the taking this year.
A quarter pounder with cheese is maybe McDonalds best sandwich but probably won't get you 5 stars on Zagat.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
and? we haven't gotten our lines right. I think that's pretty evident right? Until we do we're gonna suck. I don't care who our QB is, we will suck.
If everybody stays - Thomas, Schwartz, and Mack our line is pretty close to being right. We're borderline 4 pro bowlers there with Bitonio.
You don't skip a franchise QB because you need a pass rusher, or any of that other silly logic.
The consensus #1 is there for the taking this year.
You don't skip a franchise QB because you need a pass rusher, or any of that other silly logic.
There is no franchise QB in this draft. There's only a bunch of "maybe maybe nots". You don't spend a top 10 pick on that with so many defensive talents in this draft. A simple pass rusher? maybe not. A 5 tool defensive lineman that you can build the front 4 around, or a MLB'er that will be the captain of your defense for years to come and make people afraid of going across the middle? Yeah you take that over project QB's. This defense is the worst in the NFL, and will be for years to come if we don't draft talent.
I'm simply in no more mood to pass on a Khalil Mack or JJ Watt like talent to participate in another year of Browns QB crapshoot. Tired of it.
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If the guy is your franchise quarterback no doubt.If everybody stays - Thomas, Schwartz, and Mack our line is pretty close to being right. We're borderline 4 pro bowlers there with Bitonio.
You don't skip a franchise QB because you need a pass rusher, or any of that other silly logic.
The consensus #1 is there for the taking this year.
A quarter pounder with cheese is maybe McDonalds best sandwich but probably won't get you 5 stars on Zagat.
WSS
If the guy is your franchise quarterback no doubt.
A quarter pounder with cheese is maybe McDonalds best sandwich but probably won't get you 5 stars on Zagat.
WSS
I haven't seen any real arguments against him except for his weight - which isn't that good of one IMO.
He's definitely not McDonald's level
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You don't skip a franchise QB because you need a pass rusher, or any of that other silly logic.
There is no franchise QB in this draft. There's only a bunch of "maybe maybe nots". You don't spend a top 10 pick on that with so many defensive talents in this draft. A simple pass rusher? maybe not. A 5 tool defensive lineman that you can build the front 4 around, or a MLB'er that will be the captain of your defense for years to come and make people afraid of going across the middle? Yeah you take that over project QB's. This defense is the worst in the NFL, and will be for years to come if we don't draft talent.
I'm simply in no more mood to pass on a Khalil Mack or JJ Watt like talent to participate in another year of Browns QB crapshoot. Tired of it.
There is no franchise QB in this draft.
Agree to disagree, but I see it differently.
I haven't been as high on any prospect since Luck, so I think he's absolutely worth top 5.
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This formula doesn't work in Cleveland. We cant take a QB and build around him. We have to build the trenches up first then bring in a QB eitehr through draft or FA. Goff will not develop here. We're in antoher rebuild phase. We're going to lose at least 2 starters from our O line, so anybody think Goff is going to come in and do something? No he won't even start next year if/when McCown gets hurt. Than he'll run for his life and be in the protocol within 3 games. Career flounders after that. You wanna waste the 1st pick on that? Why take a QB with the 1st when he's not that virtually sure thing? We're gonna suck for at least a couple years so we'll have a perennially high pick. So why not wait till the right guy is gonna come out instead of overreaching on a project?
Where's the fun in agreeing to disagree?
This formula doesn't work in Cleveland. We cant take a QB and build around him.
Sure it can, but you have to start with the right QB...
A quarter pounder with cheese is maybe McDonalds best sandwich but probably won't get you 5 stars on Zagat.
More of a McDouble fan myself...
There is no franchise QB in this draft. There's only a bunch of "maybe maybe nots".
Of course there is... Every one of the QBs that becomes a "maybe... yes" is franchise by definition. You are conflating "franchise" with "elite" and/or "sure thing".
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There is no franchise QB in this draft.
Agree to disagree, but I see it differently.
I haven't been as high on any prospect since Luck, so I think he's absolutely worth top 5.
Agree to disagree, but I see it differently.
I haven't been as high on any prospect since Luck, so I think he's absolutely worth top 5.
Zombo said:
Ya that would suck having a franchise QB but not being good enough to get to the SB the first four years.
We haven't had a franchise QB since the last time the Bungles won a playoff game ... or the Browns., I'll take my chances with a 15 year window with one.
IF he's the guy. If not ... keep trying.
Who's left in the AFC? Brady, Manning, Ben, Alex Smith.
They have all been starters for 10-15 years? Gotta get one, gotta develop him, gotta keep him.
Zombo
Agree with what you are saying here. No matter what anyone thinks, quarterback is the most important position in this game. You must have a good one to succeed.
Look at all the teams in the playoffs this year, with the only exceptions being Houston, Washington and maybe Minnesota
They all have above average or competent quarterbacks at least
New England- Brady
Denver- Manning
Pittsburgh- Roethlisberger
Cincinnati- Dalton (Got injured but McCarron was ok)
KC- Smith
Houston- Hoyer (The only exception on this list, he is off and on)
Seattle- Wilson
Carolina- Newton
Arizona- Palmer
Green Bay- Rodgers
Minnesota- Bridgewater
Washington- Cousins (In good form right now)
If you never develop a quarterback properly in this league you can not win
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and? we haven't gotten our lines right. I think that's pretty evident right? Until we do we're gonna suck. I don't care who our QB is, we will suck.
If everybody stays - Thomas, Schwartz, and Mack our line is pretty close to being right. We're borderline 4 pro bowlers there with Bitonio.
You don't skip a franchise QB because you need a pass rusher, or any of that other silly logic.
The consensus #1 is there for the taking this year.
If everybody stays - Thomas, Schwartz, and Mack our line is pretty close to being right. We're borderline 4 pro bowlers there with Bitonio.
You don't skip a franchise QB because you need a pass rusher, or any of that other silly logic.
The consensus #1 is there for the taking this year.
And what was the Browns record with all 4 playing? 2-8 with wins over the dominant Titans and Ravens. And please don't say it was all Macon's fault because the season hasn't been dead long enough to causally forget how ineffective the line was.
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If everybody stays - Thomas, Schwartz, and Mack our line is pretty close to being right. We're borderline 4 pro bowlers there with Bitonio.
You don't skip a franchise QB because you need a pass rusher, or any of that other silly logic.
The consensus #1 is there for the taking this year.
And what was the Browns record with all 4 playing? 2-8 with wins over the dominant Titans and Ravens. And please don't say it was all Macon's fault because the season hasn't been dead long enough to causally forget how ineffective the line was.
And what was the Browns record with all 4 playing? 2-8 with wins over the dominant Titans and Ravens. And please don't say it was all Macon's fault because the season hasn't been dead long enough to causally forget how ineffective the line was.
Having practice squad receiving corps, no competent tight end blocking, no competent lead blocker, and a running back who keeps his eyes down and misses the hole or falls down at first contact.
But let's sit here and say we have the worst offensive line of all time and we need to trade Thomas and part ways with Schwartz and Mack.
We have many problems - the hardest void to fill is the position of franchise quarterback. If Goff is the guy, we're going to take him.
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Don't remember the last "sure thing" talent we've drafted (at QB)No we will still be the Browns chasing the tail of the latest "sure thing" QB to be followed by the next firing of the new HC & GM 2 years from now when that doesn't work out and shortly followed by choosing the next ex-Browns "sure thing" QB. Let's just all eat dog turds instead in Cabernet marinade. At least it will leave a better taste in the mouth.
...Tim couch in 99'?
Don't remember the last "sure thing" talent we've drafted (at QB)
...Tim couch in 99'?
I wish we had more than our cleaning staff evaluating Donovan McNabb because the NFL team with the worst record in 1998 ended up in the playoffs something like 10 straight years from 2000-2010 (inclusive of 5 NFC Championship appearances). It was thought the Veer Option Offense at Syracuse was too unconventional to consider (which is why a former coach of Favre's like Andy Reid that knew he played in a similar style of offense to that of the one Favre played in at So Miss).
Same year we had an expansion draft where we chose a guy that had gambling problems at Maryland (Scott Milanovich) over Kurt Warner. As fans, we weren't paid to understand/research the difference our FO was supposed to. Inevitably that led to 1 more QB preference of Spergon Wynn over Tom Brady just 1 year later in a later round.
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You don't skip a franchise QB because you need a pass rusher, or any of that other silly logic.
There is no franchise QB in this draft. There's only a bunch of "maybe maybe nots". You don't spend a top 10 pick on that with so many defensive talents in this draft. A simple pass rusher? maybe not. A 5 tool defensive lineman that you can build the front 4 around, or a MLB'er that will be the captain of your defense for years to come and make people afraid of going across the middle? Yeah you take that over project QB's. This defense is the worst in the NFL, and will be for years to come if we don't draft talent.
I'm simply in no more mood to pass on a Khalil Mack or JJ Watt like talent to participate in another year of Browns QB crapshoot. Tired of it.
There is no franchise QB in this draft. There's only a bunch of "maybe maybe nots". You don't spend a top 10 pick on that with so many defensive talents in this draft. A simple pass rusher? maybe not. A 5 tool defensive lineman that you can build the front 4 around, or a MLB'er that will be the captain of your defense for years to come and make people afraid of going across the middle? Yeah you take that over project QB's. This defense is the worst in the NFL, and will be for years to come if we don't draft talent.
I'm simply in no more mood to pass on a Khalil Mack or JJ Watt like talent to participate in another year of Browns QB crapshoot. Tired of it.
Here's Goff's stats for this season
COMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT
341 529 4719 64.5 8.92 80 43 13 26 161.3
I wouldn't say that's a "Maybe, maybe not"
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There is no franchise QB in this draft. There's only a bunch of "maybe maybe nots". You don't spend a top 10 pick on that with so many defensive talents in this draft. A simple pass rusher? maybe not. A 5 tool defensive lineman that you can build the front 4 around, or a MLB'er that will be the captain of your defense for years to come and make people afraid of going across the middle? Yeah you take that over project QB's. This defense is the worst in the NFL, and will be for years to come if we don't draft talent.
I'm simply in no more mood to pass on a Khalil Mack or JJ Watt like talent to participate in another year of Browns QB crapshoot. Tired of it.
Here's Goff's stats for this season
COMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT
341 529 4719 64.5 8.92 80 43 13 26 161.3
I wouldn't say that's a "Maybe, maybe not"
Here's Goff's stats for this season
COMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT
341 529 4719 64.5 8.92 80 43 13 26 161.3
I wouldn't say that's a "Maybe, maybe not"
Ignoring the stats, all you have to do is watch him play. You see the best in class footwork, rapid going through progressions, best in class pocket awareness and accuracy.
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Here's Goff's stats for this season
COMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT
341 529 4719 64.5 8.92 80 43 13 26 161.3
I wouldn't say that's a "Maybe, maybe not"
Ignoring the stats, all you have to do is watch him play. You see the best in class footwork, rapid going through progressions, best in class pocket awareness and accuracy.
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And what was the Browns record with all 4 playing? 2-8 with wins over the dominant Titans and Ravens. And please don't say it was all Macon's fault because the season hasn't been dead long enough to causally forget how ineffective the line was.
Having practice squad receiving corps, no competent tight end blocking, no competent lead blocker, and a running back who keeps his eyes down and misses the hole or falls down at first contact.
But let's sit here and say we have the worst offensive line of all time and we need to trade Thomas and part ways with Schwartz and Mack.
We have many problems - the hardest void to fill is the position of franchise quarterback. If Goff is the guy, we're going to take him.
Having practice squad receiving corps, no competent tight end blocking, no competent lead blocker, and a running back who keeps his eyes down and misses the hole or falls down at first contact.
But let's sit here and say we have the worst offensive line of all time and we need to trade Thomas and part ways with Schwartz and Mack.
We have many problems - the hardest void to fill is the position of franchise quarterback. If Goff is the guy, we're going to take him.
"Play Like A Brown" replaced by "Browns Making Excuses Since 1999".
Not saying we have the worst OL in football but saying we have the best is equally wrong. I think the Browns are somewhere in the middle.
And to your point we have a lack of "speed" position talent, including Concussion Joe, and we are deficient pretty much everywhere on defense. If Goff was Andrew Luck I'd agree but since he is probably closer to Blaine Gabbert, I'd like to see our defense get a bit better first.
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Browns should take a pass at both Goff and Lynch. Draft Bosa, Elliot, Wide receivers and Cardale this year. Trade Manziel, Haden, Thomas and get a veteran QB. Or go out and get Kaepernick. They need help at too many positions to risk another crappy QB draft.
Browns should take a pass at both Goff and Lynch. Draft Bosa, Elliot, Wide receivers and Cardale this year. Trade Manziel, Haden, Thomas and get a veteran QB. Or go out and get Kaepernick. They need help at too many positions to risk another crappy QB draft.
No Elliott or Cardale unless both are late 3rd round or later. Keep Thomas, trade Manziel and Haden if possible but probably a cut situation. I'd like Kaepernick but depends on who San Fran hires if he is available.
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There is no franchise QB in this draft.
Agree to disagree, but I see it differently.
I haven't been as high on any prospect since Luck, so I think he's absolutely worth top 5.
Agree to disagree, but I see it differently.
I haven't been as high on any prospect since Luck, so I think he's absolutely worth top 5.
I have no idea(and let's be real neither do you) whether Goff(or the other guy from memphis for that matter) will be good, but since you're throwing around the word consensus a lot it's also worth pointing out that the top 2 guys in last year's draft had much better grades from the 'experts' than Goff.
He will be drafted high in the first round(maybe by us, maybe not), but as far as potential top 5 draft picks at qb go over the last decade he's nowhere close to being near the top of the heap coming out of college.
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