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Stafford to Lions "a done deal"?

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  • Naaa....you can't let next years draft influence this years draft.

    Be sort of like not betting strong with a full house because you might have 4 aces on the next hand.

    If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
    ? Oldcrow1945O 2 Replies
  • ballpeenB ballpeen

    Naaa....you can't let next years draft influence this years draft.

    Be sort of like not betting strong with a full house because you might have 4 aces on the next hand.

    @ballpeen said:

    Naaa....you can't let next years draft influence this years draft.

    Be sort of like not betting strong with a full house because you might have 4 aces on the next hand.

    Not if you believe one of the QBs you can get next year is better than either guy you can get this season. Just saying, if you are DET and you have any doubt about the QBs this year, the thought of who will be available via draft and FA next year has to cross your mind. There is a reason teams have scouting departments working year round. Teams are always looking more than one year ahead, from a franchise and roster perspective. They can't live only in the now and expect success over the long haul.

    As we have agreed, you have a huge gamble w/ your franchise when taking a QB high in the 1st. It makes or breaks you for years, just as passing does. So if you can make your team better now, and get a QB next year who you believe is better than those in front of you high in this draft, you do that.

    If DET is absolutely sold that Stafford can be their QB for years to come and they can put in him in position to be successful and grow, you take him for sure.

  • ? Guest

    Aloysius said:

    If the Lions take Stafford, I see the picks before us going as follows:
    • 1. Detroit -
    Matthew Stafford, QB, Georgia

    2. St. Louis - Jason Smith, LT, Baylor

    3. KC - Aaron Curry, LB, Wake Forest

    4. Seattle - Eugene Monroe, OT, Virginia

    That'd leave us with a very interesting choice between Orakpo and Crabtree. Who we choose may depend on whether Mangini & Kokinis are going to trade Braylon Edwards.

    Even if CLE takes Crabtree, it is no guarantee they ship Edwards out. I think if they took Crabtree they'd rather him spend his first year not having to be the #1 target. Braylon may not be a UFA come next year depending on what happens with the collective bargining agreement, CLE will always have the option to franchise (or transition tag him) after the season, then trade him for picks in next years draft, and it's always possible with success next season he wants to stay and CLE would want him to stay.

    Still not sold KC takes Curry, since they do need a NT for that 3-4, and Pioli is going to build from the inside out.

    Masters said:

    Even if CLE takes Crabtree, it is no guarantee they ship Edwards out. I think if they took Crabtree they'd rather him spend his first year not having to be the #1 target. Braylon may not be a UFA come next year depending on what happens with the collective bargining agreement, CLE will always have the option to franchise (or transition tag him) after the season

    The nice thing about this is Cleveland has no other player that they would have to worry about Franchising. In some cases you'll want to try and sign the player to a long term deal after tagging him so you can free the tag up for another player.

    The only other player they would need to franchise one day would be Thomas and I think he's signed through 2012....Unless someone corrects me.

    They won't let Edwards leave without getting something. They'll either trade him or tag him and trade him.

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote! - "Ben Franklin"
  • ballpeenB ballpeen

    Naaa....you can't let next years draft influence this years draft.

    Be sort of like not betting strong with a full house because you might have 4 aces on the next hand.

    @ballpeen said:

    Naaa....you can't let next years draft influence this years draft.

    Be sort of like not betting strong with a full house because you might have 4 aces on the next hand.

    Oh, I think they look at the following year's draft. Let's say Schwartz is crazy about Snead or Bradford or Tebow and wants any of them and believes all three could be solid NFL Qb's.......And let's say at the same time the 2010 draft has no talented left OT's coming out. I'm sure coaches think and talk about it. Why take a QB this year when we can get any of the the three we want next year? If we don't take a top left OT this year we won't be getting one next year either!

    This weighs heavily on their mind.

    The only problem with you gambling analogy is that in cards you don't know what's coming in the next hand...The coaches do know what is coming in 2010.

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote! - "Ben Franklin"
  • Not if you believe one of the QBs you can get next year is better than either guy you can get this season.

    The point is you don't know unless you are going to throw games....and then you still don't know.

    Really man....you can't let what might happen influence what you do this year....that is as simple as i can put it.

    If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
    ? 2 Replies
  • ballpeenB ballpeen
    Not if you believe one of the QBs you can get next year is better than either guy you can get this season.

    The point is you don't know unless you are going to throw games....and then you still don't know.

    Really man....you can't let what might happen influence what you do this year....that is as simple as i can put it.

    @ballpeen said:

    The point is you don't know unless you are going to throw games....and then you still don't know.

    Really man....you can't let what might happen influence what you do this year....that is as simple as i can put it.

    Coaches and teams have a realistic and pretty accurate idea of how they should do in a coming season. I am sure DET doesn't have any real expectations of more than 6 wins next season. Not with that roster.

    I disagree with you regarding forward thinking, when you factor in that the NFL team is a business first and foremost. That is as simple as I can put it.

  • ballpeenB ballpeen
    Not if you believe one of the QBs you can get next year is better than either guy you can get this season.

    The point is you don't know unless you are going to throw games....and then you still don't know.

    Really man....you can't let what might happen influence what you do this year....that is as simple as i can put it.

    @ballpeen said:

    Really man....you can't let what might happen influence what you do this year....that is as simple as i can put it.

    That's the kind of forward thinking that got GM to where it is today. 🙄

  • Look....of course you have an idea of who is entering.....but we are talking QB here...top QB's go early.....you don't pass them thinking you can get one next year

    You can think what you want....

    If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

  • You can pass them if you think what you have a shot at next year is that much better than either of the QBs this year. If you question that these guys may not be a sure locks, and your looking at a year away that you see as sure QB (or multiple, which looks to be the case), you certainly do. QB isn't going to fix all of DET's issues, and with no one to keep that QB up right....

    These aren't just players, they are financial investments by teams. Not just an investment in the player, but their own franchises future.

    You can think what you want too.....

  • So basically you leave it to chance....skip a guy this year because you might get better next year...OK....lol.....with the financial investment you mention, i think teams try to control as much as they can.

    Why draft anybody.....you might do better next year..

    You are a good egg Masters, but on this issue I think.....no....I know.....you need to re-evaluate.

    If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
    ? 1 Reply

  • Only need to re-evaluate it if you take it to the rediculous extream you just tried to take it to.

    Teams that want success and end up successful do not get trapped in the tunnel vision of "I need a QB and there is one available in the first of this draft, I have to take him."

    It's all chance. This year, next year, or 10 years from now. That isn't going to change about the draft. Teams have to make the most educated risk/chance. You don't do that with tunnel vision.

    You are a good egg too, but when all you can do is take something to an exagurated extream, you're arguing to argue.

  • Doesn't it make sense though? If you have a need at both QB and LT, and they're both availible now, but comparable QB's are availible next year at your projected draft pick whereas comparable LT's are not availible, wouldn't you take the LT?

  • ballpeenB ballpeen

    So basically you leave it to chance....skip a guy this year because you might get better next year...OK....lol.....with the financial investment you mention, i think teams try to control as much as they can.

    Why draft anybody.....you might do better next year..

    You are a good egg Masters, but on this issue I think.....no....I know.....you need to re-evaluate.

    @ballpeen said:

    Why draft anybody.....you might do better next year..

    I'm fairly certain that's not what we're advocating here. You get that.

    So you're saying if you're DET, and you have guys like Bradford and McCoy rated significantly higher than Stafford, and Stafford rated slightly higher than Jason Smith, who you rate much higher than any LT prospect next draft, you still select Stafford?

    ? ballpeenB 2 Replies
  • ? Guest

    Aloysius said:

    If the Lions take Stafford, I see the picks before us going as follows:
    • 1. Detroit -
    Matthew Stafford, QB, Georgia

    2. St. Louis - Jason Smith, LT, Baylor

    3. KC - Aaron Curry, LB, Wake Forest

    4. Seattle - Eugene Monroe, OT, Virginia

    That'd leave us with a very interesting choice between Orakpo and Crabtree. Who we choose may depend on whether Mangini & Kokinis are going to trade Braylon Edwards.

    Even if CLE takes Crabtree, it is no guarantee they ship Edwards out. I think if they took Crabtree they'd rather him spend his first year not having to be the #1 target. Braylon may not be a UFA come next year depending on what happens with the collective bargining agreement, CLE will always have the option to franchise (or transition tag him) after the season, then trade him for picks in next years draft, and it's always possible with success next season he wants to stay and CLE would want him to stay.

    Still not sold KC takes Curry, since they do need a NT for that 3-4, and Pioli is going to build from the inside out.

    Masters said:

    Even if CLE takes Crabtree, it is no guarantee they ship Edwards out. I think if they took Crabtree they'd rather him spend his first year not having to be the #1 target. Braylon may not be a UFA come next year depending on what happens with the collective bargining agreement, CLE will always have the option to franchise (or transition tag him) after the season, then trade him for picks in next years draft, and it's always possible with success next season he wants to stay and CLE would want him to stay.

    Still not sold KC takes Curry, since they do need a NT for that 3-4, and Pioli is going to build from the inside out.

    I think will go into the season with BE and depending on how we look the first 5 games and weather or not we get him to sign a long term contract we could trade him before the week 6 trade deadline to a team in contention with a need of a receiver because of injury or poor performance. This would be the best way to get somebody to overpay for Edwards, much like what happened with Roy Williams last year.

    1st Ezekiel Ansah, DE, BYU 3rd Darius Slay, CB, Mississippi State4th Landry Jones, QB, Oklahoma5th Earl Wolff, S, N.C. State6th Lucas Reed, TE, New Mexico
    ? 1 Reply
  • ? Guest

    @ballpeen said:

    Why draft anybody.....you might do better next year..

    I'm fairly certain that's not what we're advocating here. You get that.

    So you're saying if you're DET, and you have guys like Bradford and McCoy rated significantly higher than Stafford, and Stafford rated slightly higher than Jason Smith, who you rate much higher than any LT prospect next draft, you still select Stafford?

    mz. said:

    I'm fairly certain that's not what we're advocating here. You get that.

    So you're saying if you're DET, and you have guys like Bradford and McCoy rated significantly higher than Stafford, and Stafford rated slightly higher than Jason Smith, who you rate much higher than any LT prospect next draft, you still select Stafford?

    Thank you.

    You follow exactly where I am going with it.

  • C CLEVELandMILIDH

    Masters said:

    Even if CLE takes Crabtree, it is no guarantee they ship Edwards out. I think if they took Crabtree they'd rather him spend his first year not having to be the #1 target. Braylon may not be a UFA come next year depending on what happens with the collective bargining agreement, CLE will always have the option to franchise (or transition tag him) after the season, then trade him for picks in next years draft, and it's always possible with success next season he wants to stay and CLE would want him to stay.

    Still not sold KC takes Curry, since they do need a NT for that 3-4, and Pioli is going to build from the inside out.

    I think will go into the season with BE and depending on how we look the first 5 games and weather or not we get him to sign a long term contract we could trade him before the week 6 trade deadline to a team in contention with a need of a receiver because of injury or poor performance. This would be the best way to get somebody to overpay for Edwards, much like what happened with Roy Williams last year.

    nmills said:

    I think will go into the season with BE and depending on how we look the first 5 games and weather or not we get him to sign a long term contract we could trade him before the week 6 trade deadline to a team in contention with a need of a receiver because of injury or poor performance. This would be the best way to get somebody to overpay for Edwards, much like what happened with Roy Williams last year.

    That is one ideal scenario. That of course hinges on how BE performs and a tea being in that position.

    The other ideal scenario I see is that BE returns to the 07 form, which is what his perceived ability is/was, and you can ship him in next offseason for an inflated value.

  • @shepwrite said:

    I stand by it: You only pass on a franchise quarterback if you already have one.

    If you don't have a big time passer in today's NFL, you're just another team looking for a big time passer.

    Unless you don't think Stafford is a franchise QB.

  • @shepwrite said:

    I stand by it: You only pass on a franchise quarterback if you already have one.

    If you don't have a big time passer in today's NFL, you're just another team looking for a big time passer.

    But he better be a franchise QB and you better be really sure yu believe he is.

    In the case of DET, right now they are less than just another team in today's NFL. They did go winless after all. They have a lot of needs and require a lot of work to undo what Millen did to them.

    My perspective is if I am DET in this draft. Not any NFL team in a vaccume situation.

  • dont no if theres any truth to this but its interesting http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=149&f=1767&t=4165046

    1st Ezekiel Ansah, DE, BYU 3rd Darius Slay, CB, Mississippi State4th Landry Jones, QB, Oklahoma5th Earl Wolff, S, N.C. State6th Lucas Reed, TE, New Mexico
  • C CLEVELandMILIDH

    dont no if theres any truth to this but its interesting http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=149&f=1767&t=4165046

    nmills said:

    dont no if theres any truth to this but its interesting http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=149&f=1767&t=4165046

    my god we can only hope that is the exact terms of the possible trade. #5 #20 #50 no DA sign ol gus as a back up. that sounds to good to be true, but that is what keeps us staying up late at night before we have to go to work in the morning.

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