Well it sounded good. ..
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I think this will just push more towards automation. You are already seeing it in places where food ordering etc. is covered by a kiosk and not a person.
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Not everyone can rise to the top. Society will always need people to clean toilets, flip burgers, mop floors, stack shelves. Someone needs to do it.
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And if cal were to go out of business for not being able to sell enough tomatoes, we would all mourn for him, but that's the capitalist model that the US and UK are built on.
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I think this will just push more towards automation. You are already seeing it in places where food ordering etc. is covered by a kiosk and not a person.
I think this will just push more towards automation. You are already seeing it in places where food ordering etc. is covered by a kiosk and not a person.
Yep there are a few chain restaurants with those electronic pads on the tables. I refuse to use them and if the manager says I have no choice I will go somewhere else. I'm not Che Guevara but...
WSS
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I'm all on board with automation of anything possible (without downgrading functionality) btw. We're trying to move here towards driverless trains on the underground, and a 24-hour system (currently 6am to 12am, roughly), and you should see the ridiculous fuss kicked up by drivers. Sorry, but it's a business and I'd rather the whole system not be subject to people going on strike, people being ill, and I'd rather the cost be lowered so that the money can be invested elsewhere.
The unions here though are so powerful that we have to reach these compromises, which is why after tapping in with my travel card, I still have some jobsworth checking if I've tapped in. It's a real pain in the arse and people are just afraid of losing their cushy jobs. Drivers on the underground earn £50k; it's a closed market, you can only apply to be a driver if you already work for the company in some way (ticket office or whatever) as the unions insisted jobs be posted internally initially; they have insisted on endless 'training' for pushing a stop/start button, which in turn means they can demand more wages; and they claim more wages because they work in the dark (tunnels) for however many hours a day. Well sorry, but all that is solved if we use driverless trains. But the government, even the supposedly right wing government, is kowtowing to their demands at every turn. 'Night tube' was supposed to be live in September. It's still not live, and they're still striking to stop it happening.
</rant>
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Sounds like we are in agreement on our opinion of the labor unions.
But in non union situations I'm glad to pay an extra nickel a gallon of gas or a few bucks in a tip for human service.
WSS
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I am surprised the subways in London, a major league city, don't run all night
WSS
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Minimum wage needs to be higher, but $15 maybe too much.
We mainly need more full time jobs with benefits rather than part time jobs. A flat tax plan that removes all incentives for offering those said benefits seems like a good way to go. (Pink font)
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Not everyone can rise to the top. Society will always need people to clean toilets, flip burgers, mop floors, stack shelves. Someone needs to do it.
Not everyone can rise to the top. Society will always need people to clean toilets, flip burgers, mop floors, stack shelves. Someone needs to do it.
Well then they don't need to throw a fit when they realize that cleaning toilets isn't a lucrative career.
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I live in southern Il and for the most part they do ok for themselves.
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What gets me is professional people being "out of work". After the unemployment runs out they boo hoo when the whole time they could've gotten a job somewhere. It might not be what they want but it will make ends meet until something better comes along.
If you want assistance fine but earn your way you're no better than me flip them burgers or whatever!
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Not everyone can rise to the top. Society will always need people to clean toilets, flip burgers, mop floors, stack shelves. Someone needs to do it.
So we pay them 15 bucks an hour. And now the assistant manager or the cashier or someone else who has earned a somewhat higher position at the shop will want an appropriate raise, correct?Not everyone can rise to the top. Society will always need people to clean toilets, flip burgers, mop floors, stack shelves. Someone needs to do it.
Which will of course be an upward spiral until you reach the shop owner who only deserves whatever his shop can garner in profit.
WSS
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So we pay them 15 bucks an hour. And now the assistant manager or the cashier or someone else who has earned a somewhat higher position at the shop will want an appropriate raise, correct?Not everyone can rise to the top. Society will always need people to clean toilets, flip burgers, mop floors, stack shelves. Someone needs to do it.
Which will of course be an upward spiral until you reach the shop owner who only deserves whatever his shop can garner in profit.
WSS
It's turnover. Sad but true places as such need turnover to keep from giving raises.So we pay them 15 bucks an hour. And now the assistant manager or the cashier or someone else who has earned a somewhat higher position at the shop will want an appropriate raise, correct?
Which will of course be an upward spiral until you reach the shop owner who only deserves whatever his shop can garner in profit.
WSS
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It's turnover. Sad but true places as such need turnover to keep from giving raises.So we pay them 15 bucks an hour. And now the assistant manager or the cashier or someone else who has earned a somewhat higher position at the shop will want an appropriate raise, correct?
Which will of course be an upward spiral until you reach the shop owner who only deserves whatever his shop can garner in profit.
WSS
"One said:
It's turnover. Sad but true places as such need turnover to keep from giving raises.
But that's not what I'm talking about, you will still need to pay more money for someone with a marketable skill then you will for the guy who cleans toilets. And they probably won't work for toilet cleaning calibre money.
WSS
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"One said:
It's turnover. Sad but true places as such need turnover to keep from giving raises.
But that's not what I'm talking about, you will still need to pay more money for someone with a marketable skill then you will for the guy who cleans toilets. And they probably won't work for toilet cleaning calibre money.
WSS
Lol ok. It's my meds WSS. in the morning they kick in and I get loopy.But that's not what I'm talking about, you will still need to pay more money for someone with a marketable skill then you will for the guy who cleans toilets. And they probably won't work for toilet cleaning calibre money.
WSS
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Lol ok. It's my meds WSS. in the morning they kick in and I get loopy.But that's not what I'm talking about, you will still need to pay more money for someone with a marketable skill then you will for the guy who cleans toilets. And they probably won't work for toilet cleaning calibre money.
WSS
"One said:
Lol ok. It's my meds WSS. in the morning they kick in and I get loopy.
Ha, when mine kick in I've gotta pee!
WSS
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I think are two sides to the argument but what I want to see is job creation and I see this as something that kills jobs. By raising the minimum wage employers may not hire now or look to automation to cut down on the work force.
I believe a strong economy where jobs are being created is the best union. It creates an environment where employers look at hiring new employees with the attitude of new employees increasing their profits instead of what we have now where employers are looking at how much new employees will cost them. When jobs are plentiful employers will pay to keep their employees. Under Obama for 7 years we have had a weak recovery with not nearly enough jobs being created.
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I don't understand why minimum wage laws aren't a function of the size and profitability of the company. Just take people working in coffee shops for instance, should a local owned coffee shop have to pay it's employees the same as Starbucks? The flip side, should Starbucks be able to pay it's employees the same as a struggling local shop? There's a balance point we nee to find. Companies like Starbucks and Walmart etc, etc...should reward their employees for helping get to where they're at. These companies names should never come up in minimum wage debates because they don't need to. So I don't think it's unreasonable to say hey assholes, take care of your employees. Has to be within reason of course.
The argument that minimum wage jobs should be "starting points" is ridiculous. Anyone that spends more than 5 fucking minutes educating themselves on our current labor market ought to understand that we're more and more a service economy. And there's only so many higher collar jobs to be had. And those jobs are dwindling as well. It's a function of a well structured society to have a work force that can sustain the bare minimums. Again anybody with a lick of common sense and runs some numbers will quickly agree that "just" living expenses like rent and utilities in even some bad neighborhoods quickly goes through a minimum wage check. And then people cry about not having a robust economy, all those "greedy" people hoarding their cash not spending for the holidays....well......
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OBF - did you read the thing I posted about there being no correlation between unemployment and minimum wage?
Cleve - the way you achieve that is to make your company a co-op and pay them in dividends rather than a wage. Come to think of it, cal could do the same to avoid that conundrum.
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Being pragmatic and wanting the economy to grow I look to history at what works to grow an economy. John Kennedy did it with tax cuts across the board. Ronald Reagan did it with tax cuts across the board. The stipulation for me is I would want to see the tax cuts mean job growth here and not see some companies move out of the country just to have even more profit.
Chris I think there are two sides on the minimum wage with valid arguments on both sides.
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