Jonathan Paul Manziel
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USA Today with a clear explanation of the financial aspects of cutting JM by the Browns. More complex than just cut on Mar 9.
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/02/cleveland-browns-johnny-manziel-contract
USA Today with a clear explanation of the financial aspects of cutting JM by the Browns. More complex than just cut on Mar 9.
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/02/cleveland-browns-johnny-manziel-contract
We probably don't care that much about taking the entire hit this year assuming we're not going to try to be major players in FA this year.
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USA Today with a clear explanation of the financial aspects of cutting JM by the Browns. More complex than just cut on Mar 9.
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/02/cleveland-browns-johnny-manziel-contract
We probably don't care that much about taking the entire hit this year assuming we're not going to try to be major players in FA this year.
We probably don't care that much about taking the entire hit this year assuming we're not going to try to be major players in FA this year.
I suspect that they had better have all their analytics in order before Mar 9, because if we are in fact needing to use some FA this year according to those findings, we need to know before the decision on cut date is done.
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VesnaKociper said:
My problem with the entire Manziel situation is that the kid was never given a manifesto, not really. Every time he farted, someone was there to correct him, shove a camera up his ass, bench him and write stories about him. I wouldn't be to enthusiastic about that kind of a job either.
Are the Expectations and Standards within the NFL's Personal Conduct Policy not a "manifesto"?
The 2015 problems started when his sitter, a former HS coach IIRC, moved out... when there ceased to be someone there "to correct him".
It may be convenient to conflate a list of media activities, "shove cameras" and "write stories", with team actions, but it is dishonest. However, if you're going to do it, then at least attempt to be complete by adding "issue tweets" and "pose for selfies".
And for the record...
He was never benched "for farting". He was benched for lying about farting.
The time for enthusiasm was when he reported to TC in 2014 and given his playbook.
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Tom, why should anybody stay in college after an incredibly successful season and Heisman Trophy? Let's say next year the Aggies aren't quite so successful. Then you are looking at a second or third round offer. And that Heisman Trophy, well that was a couple years ago right? What have you done for me lately? Not to mention all you need is one dirty hit below the waist and bingo a major weapon in your arsenal is now depleted.
WSS
Tom, why should anybody stay in college after an incredibly successful season and Heisman Trophy?
He did... won the Heisman as a redshirt freshman...
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Tom, why should anybody stay in college after an incredibly successful season and Heisman Trophy?
He did... won the Heisman as a redshirt freshman...
Did I misread Toms comment that he believed Johnny should have stayed in college for another year?He did... won the Heisman as a redshirt freshman...
Edit also what does the leagues personal conduct code have to do with Johnny's off the field actions?
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
Did I misread Toms comment that he believed Johnny should have stayed in college for another year?
Edit also what does the leagues personal conduct code have to do with Johnny's off the field actions?
I read your Heisman bit as being inclusive with the "incredibly successful season".
I took the "incredibly successful season" to be a team statement.
Johnny's 11-2, Frosh year comes closer to "incredibly successful" than his 9-4 Soph year.
Thus my reply...
I should have known when it comes to Johnny its all about the individual...
As for the League's PCP, it's all about off-field behavior, so I do not understand your question.
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Just sat down in the movies to watch room. Will reply right after it.
WSS
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Did I misread Toms comment that he believed Johnny should have stayed in college for another year?
Edit also what does the leagues personal conduct code have to do with Johnny's off the field actions?
WSS
Um, domestic violence is a no-no. Conduct detrimental to the league too. Not exactly hard to find, if you have an interest.
http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/21598/nfl-personal-conduct-policy
Oh and here's why Johnny got off after the drunk girlfriend incident.
"Unless the case involves significant bodily harm, a first offense will generally not result in discipline until there has been a disposition of the proceeding (or until the investigation is complete in the case of employee or workplace misconduct)."
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I'm ready to be done with this guy. For the good of my sanity, please release him at earliest opportunity.
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USA Today with a clear explanation of the financial aspects of cutting JM by the Browns. More complex than just cut on Mar 9.
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/02/cleveland-browns-johnny-manziel-contract
We probably don't care that much about taking the entire hit this year assuming we're not going to try to be major players in FA this year.
We probably don't care that much about taking the entire hit this year assuming we're not going to try to be major players in FA this year.
Well, BB, the USA Today article pointed out- we got other problems on the cap hit front besides JFF. Telling Bowe to take a hike will cost plenty too. USA mentioned Kruger and Whitner. Ray Farmer- the gift that just keeps on giving (us problems).
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We probably don't care that much about taking the entire hit this year assuming we're not going to try to be major players in FA this year.
Well, BB, the USA Today article pointed out- we got other problems on the cap hit front besides JFF. Telling Bowe to take a hike will cost plenty too. USA mentioned Kruger and Whitner. Ray Farmer- the gift that just keeps on giving (us problems).
Well, BB, the USA Today article pointed out- we got other problems on the cap hit front besides JFF. Telling Bowe to take a hike will cost plenty too. USA mentioned Kruger and Whitner. Ray Farmer- the gift that just keeps on giving (us problems).
It will be very interesting if the analytics dictate they hold him until June as a "dead man walking". But my guess is they just take it on the cap chin and get him out of the facilities ASAP.
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Tom, why should anybody stay in college after an incredibly successful season and Heisman Trophy? Let's say next year the Aggies aren't quite so successful. Then you are looking at a second or third round offer. And that Heisman Trophy, well that was a couple years ago right? What have you done for me lately? Not to mention all you need is one dirty hit below the waist and bingo a major weapon in your arsenal is now depleted.
WSS
Tom, why should anybody stay in college after an incredibly successful season and Heisman Trophy? Let's say next year the Aggies aren't quite so successful. Then you are looking at a second or third round offer. And that Heisman Trophy, well that was a couple years ago right? What have you done for me lately? Not to mention all you need is one dirty hit below the waist and bingo a major weapon in your arsenal is now depleted.
WSS
Great questions that don't really show me a lot of confidence in his upside or what he promises an NFL franchise Steve. Understanding how often the Heisman Trophy has promised instant NFL success for QBs over the years - let's stop dwelling on it as anything beyond a nice accomplishment for a college kid.
In my lifetime, I haven't seen a lot of 20-21 year old 5'11" QBs leaving college after their sophomore year (forfeiting their final 2 years of eligibility) ready to slay it in the NFL. Have you?
If we add in other factors like his off the field issues and tendencies to leave the pocket prematurely, we begin to understand why there weren't a lot of NFL teams ready to burn a first round pick on him beside a team that consistently flunks the first round (all the way down at #22 AFTER blowing a top 10 pick on a corner with bad tackling and work ethic habits according to his previous coaches). Again, if Johnny was going to miss college so much while his only taker felt there was a huge rookie learning curve - why not just comeback for the junior year and show critics what they needed to see at least on the field (since there was no way he was changing what he does off the field)? He came here with questions and leaves here with even more.
As for the all it takes is 1 dirty hit or even a leg injury per say like RG3 had - I agree. So did a lot of NFL scouts/teams worrying about what will and will not transfer over on Johnny's behalf. How many starts did Johnny have before he got injured in 2014? Vince Young followed up his Rookie of the Year season from heroics outside the pocket by pulling a groin, which merged into a pulled hammy = welcome to passing from an NFL pocket. The difference? CBs no longer had to come off the WRs in worry of VY running the football outside/pressing the line of scrimmage so the number of unchallenged freebie completions were decreased significantly down to "uh-oh." Frustration set in and the kid from Texas didn't handle it well. The RG3 story is kind of similar to VY in the sense he wasn't wired to succeed in the pocket.
You were concerned Johnny might only be thought of as a 2nd or 3rd round QB prospect if he returned to A&M for 1 more year. Do you honestly think that's worse than what most teams/NFL personnel people think of him today? Seems to me, the best thing that could have happened to him was what happened to Russell Wilson on draft day (getting drafted in a mid round). Wilson sure looks like he showed up with a burning desire to prove a lot of critics wrong with 2 Superbowl starts already. Manziel showed up satisfied, distracted and ready for Vegas between mini-camps. Ideally, you want a first round QB that comes in here ready to show a coaching staff the difference between himself and a journeyman QB. Wilson didn't give a rat what Seattle had just committed to Matt Flynn ($9 million guaranteed). He showed up ready to win, rinse and repeat. Now why should such a thing have been so undoable here? Carroll didn't want to start a rookie QB any more than Pettine wanted to so what needed to happen?
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
Did I misread Toms comment that he believed Johnny should have stayed in college for another year?
Edit also what does the leagues personal conduct code have to do with Johnny's off the field actions?
I read your Heisman bit as being inclusive with the "incredibly successful season".
I took the "incredibly successful season" to be a team statement.
Johnny's 11-2, Frosh year comes closer to "incredibly successful" than his 9-4 Soph year.
Thus my reply...
I should have known when it comes to Johnny its all about the individual...
As for the League's PCP, it's all about off-field behavior, so I do not understand your question.
I read your Heisman bit as being inclusive with the "incredibly successful season".
I took the "incredibly successful season" to be a team statement.
Johnny's 11-2, Frosh year comes closer to "incredibly successful" than his 9-4 Soph year.
Thus my reply...
I should have known when it comes to Johnny its all about the individual...
☆ yes, you think that's inappropriate giving the subject of this particular thread? But yes for another example I'd say Cardale Jones should have come out last year. He might well have gone in the first round, and regardless of his desire to pursue a degree even if he never made it in the NFL he could buy himself any educational route he chose☆
As for the League's PCP, it's all about off-field behavior, so I do not understand your question.
☆ I was wondering what the PCP specifically said about being photographed in a nightclub. Or being accused or suspected of something that the league's own investigation cleared the player of.☆
WSS
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Tom I said a few times before that draft that the Heisman his no indicator of NFL success, usually the opposite, right? It does help you keep a higher profile though, right? Just saying college performance is a factor. If it wasn't I guess we wouldn't be hearing all that yep yep yep Goff, Lynch or Wentz.
And no doubt Pete Carroll probably shied away from starting a rookie, so did Saint Mike. Coach P and the team had a first round highly celebrated draft pick, plus the fact that he was known for favoring veterans. I don't blame him at all for the first year, the second I think he let his personal feelings get in the way. And even if he didn't his choice didn't wind up working out.
Anyhow none of us know what went on behind the scenes, and possibly might never.
As for me I've just been hoping that the situation could be resolved in a successful manner for both sides.
But like my mechanic tells me "Well it might last you another hundred thousand miles; might not get you home."
WSS
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Tom, why should anybody stay in college after an incredibly successful season and Heisman Trophy? Let's say next year the Aggies aren't quite so successful. Then you are looking at a second or third round offer. And that Heisman Trophy, well that was a couple years ago right? What have you done for me lately? Not to mention all you need is one dirty hit below the waist and bingo a major weapon in your arsenal is now depleted.
WSS
Great questions that don't really show me a lot of confidence in his upside or what he promises an NFL franchise Steve. Understanding how often the Heisman Trophy has promised instant NFL success for QBs over the years - let's stop dwelling on it as anything beyond a nice accomplishment for a college kid.
In my lifetime, I haven't seen a lot of 20-21 year old 5'11" QBs leaving college after their sophomore year (forfeiting their final 2 years of eligibility) ready to slay it in the NFL. Have you?
If we add in other factors like his off the field issues and tendencies to leave the pocket prematurely, we begin to understand why there weren't a lot of NFL teams ready to burn a first round pick on him beside a team that consistently flunks the first round (all the way down at #22 AFTER blowing a top 10 pick on a corner with bad tackling and work ethic habits according to his previous coaches). Again, if Johnny was going to miss college so much while his only taker felt there was a huge rookie learning curve - why not just comeback for the junior year and show critics what they needed to see at least on the field (since there was no way he was changing what he does off the field)? He came here with questions and leaves here with even more.
As for the all it takes is 1 dirty hit or even a leg injury per say like RG3 had - I agree. So did a lot of NFL scouts/teams worrying about what will and will not transfer over on Johnny's behalf. How many starts did Johnny have before he got injured in 2014? Vince Young followed up his Rookie of the Year season from heroics outside the pocket by pulling a groin, which merged into a pulled hammy = welcome to passing from an NFL pocket. The difference? CBs no longer had to come off the WRs in worry of VY running the football outside/pressing the line of scrimmage so the number of unchallenged freebie completions were decreased significantly down to "uh-oh." Frustration set in and the kid from Texas didn't handle it well. The RG3 story is kind of similar to VY in the sense he wasn't wired to succeed in the pocket.
You were concerned Johnny might only be thought of as a 2nd or 3rd round QB prospect if he returned to A&M for 1 more year. Do you honestly think that's worse than what most teams/NFL personnel people think of him today? Seems to me, the best thing that could have happened to him was what happened to Russell Wilson on draft day (getting drafted in a mid round). Wilson sure looks like he showed up with a burning desire to prove a lot of critics wrong with 2 Superbowl starts already. Manziel showed up satisfied, distracted and ready for Vegas between mini-camps. Ideally, you want a first round QB that comes in here ready to show a coaching staff the difference between himself and a journeyman QB. Wilson didn't give a rat what Seattle had just committed to Matt Flynn ($9 million guaranteed). He showed up ready to win, rinse and repeat. Now why should such a thing have been so undoable here? Carroll didn't want to start a rookie QB any more than Pettine wanted to so what needed to happen?
Seems to me, the best thing that could have happened to him was what happened to Russell Wilson on draft day (getting drafted in a mid round). Wilson sure looks like he showed up with a burning desire to prove a lot of critics wrong with 2 Superbowl starts already. Manziel showed up satisfied, distracted and ready for Vegas between mini-camps. Ideally, you want a first round QB that comes in here ready to show a coaching staff the difference between himself and a journeyman QB. Wilson didn't give a rat what Seattle had just committed to Matt Flynn ($9 million guaranteed). He showed up ready to win, rinse and repeat. Now why should such a thing have been so undoable here? Carroll didn't want to start a rookie QB any more than Pettine wanted to so what needed to happen?
Nice analysis... Little doubt Wilson showed up in Seattle with a Brady-ish chip on his shoulder. He'd already showed it when prior to transferring to Wisconsin he asked to be released from his NC State scholarship because signs were his HC was turning to Mike Glennon. That's called betting on yourself and he backed the move up with hard work... just like he did in Seattle.
I read your Heisman bit as being inclusive with the "incredibly successful season".
I took the "incredibly successful season" to be a team statement.
Johnny's 11-2, Frosh year comes closer to "incredibly successful" than his 9-4 Soph year.
Thus my reply...
I should have known when it comes to Johnny its all about the individual...
☆ yes, you think that's inappropriate giving the subject of this particular thread? But yes for another example I'd say Cardale Jones should have come out last year. He might well have gone in the first round, and regardless of his desire to pursue a degree even if he never made it in the NFL he could buy himself any educational route he chose☆
As for the League's PCP, it's all about off-field behavior, so I do not understand your question.
☆ I was wondering what the PCP specifically said about being photographed in a nightclub. Or being accused or suspected of something that the league's own investigation cleared the player of.☆
Not inappropriate... just not the way I took your point initially.
No... no specific prohibition on nightclubs, photos...
... also no specific prohibition on lying to your employer or many other things.
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It was never a good fit for johnny in cleveland. It wasn't hard to see that an organization screaming for stability, with a rookie defensive minded head coach, shouldn't draft a guy like Johnny. I saw it as a waste of at least one season, probably two or three. I wasn't too far off, and even I, who was against drafting him, was shocked at just how thoroughly he blew off his rookie season. After that, I was done with him. I'm no spring chicken and would like to see the Browns get to the playoffs (I've lowered my standards incrementally over the last 10 years) before i die. I don't have time to wait around on a guy who needs to grow up first. It was so obvious to me that the browns were asking for not only a project whose biggest assets were playground QB skills, but also a big time project with off the field stuff ( and that has turned out to be even worse than my imagination would allow in may 2014). As far as in concerned, I don't know how any Browns fan can NOT be done with him. He has wasted two seasons of our time. And not because he just can't grasp the game ( I try to have patience with rookies and the learning curve), but because he didn't give 100%. He never made football the priority. I liken him to your buddy who is the life of the party, the guy you call when it's time to blow off steam for a while, but the guy you would NEVER hire to run your business.
LOL-but if he goes to another team .............................
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