North Korea
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For all the discussion going on I think this issue is the most pressing. This is a sticky situation with North Korea. Our forces are spread too thin as it is. How do YOU think we deal with this issue (please don't bring into Obama's short comings, we all know what they are)? This question is for you, not on Obama's approval ratings.
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For all the discussion going on I think this issue is the most pressing. This is a sticky situation with North Korea. Our forces are spread too thin as it is. How do YOU think we deal with this issue (please don't bring into Obama's short comings, we all know what they are)? This question is for you, not on Obama's approval ratings.
For all the discussion going on I think this issue is the most pressing. This is a sticky situation with North Korea. Our forces are spread too thin as it is. How do YOU think we deal with this issue (please don't bring into Obama's short comings, we all know what they are)? This question is for you, not on Obama's approval ratings.
I think we pray to God that either Japan or China (yes even China) shoot it out of the sky to send a message to North Korea that it is the wrong time to push buttons. I would put the chances of China doing something at around 10% but I have heard it mentioned that they're not too happy with N. Korea's 'meddling'.
Right now I think we're too spread thin to do anything overtly especially when there is a chance that one of their neighbors might do something.
Speaking of which, heard this morning that they have begun fueling, which mean a launch could be 3-4 days away (heard it on FOX though so thank God it's probably a lie).
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North Korea 'has deployed multiple nuclear warheads' ahead of launch
North Korea has developed and deployed multiple nuclear warheads that can be attached to medium-range Rodong missiles, according to a Seoul-based defence analyst
By Our Foreign Staff
Last Updated: 12:35AM BST 02 Apr 2009
"I received the information from the national intelligence agency of a certain country that they believe North Korea has deployed nuclear warheads at two underground facilities for Rodong missiles," Daniel Pinkston, senior analyst at the International Crisis Group, told The Daily Telegraph from Seoul.
"We estimate that North Korea has as many as 320 Rodong missiles, which can be launched from mobile transporters anywhere in the country, and we are assessing the threat these pose," he said.
North Korea's deployment of nuclear weapons will heighten tensions in the region, already strained due to Pyongyang's determination to go ahead with the launch of what it claims is a rocket carrying an experimental satellite.
Tokyo, Washington and other countries in the region believe the projectile is a long-range missile.
The launch is scheduled to take place between April 4 and 8.
The intelligence reports suggest that the warheads are made from plutonium extracted at the Yongbyon nuclear complex, which North Korea has promised to dismantle in return for fuel assistance but has been stalling on completing.
The regime in Pyongyang has also threatened to halt the dismantling of its nuclear programme if another country interferes in the launch of its satellite or the United Nations imposes sanctions on it.
Rodong missiles have an estimated range of 1,300km, putting Japan within range of the two missile bases that have been identified in North Korea.
Satellite surveillance images have shown a three-stage rocket on a launch pad at the Musudan-ri facility close to the east coast of North Korea and experts estimate that it would take two days for technicians to assemble a Rodong weapon and attach a nuclear warhead.
South Korea better be prepared.
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The answer is to do absolutely NOTHING. North Korean Missile capability is not the issue. We already know they have some level of fissile material and they also have the ability to deliver ranged attacks from land based missiles.
This is all posturing for attention for future leverage in negotiations with South Korea and a new administration in the United States. If they launch a new test missle it is no different than say Pakistan/India or hell even Iran/China testing out new military capabilities.
The North Korean regime is a bit unstable due to Kim Jong Il's age and health, one of his sons is currently being propted up as a possible successor by the military elite. This is the same tactic they have been using for decades.
Overreaction and attention only plays into their plan to leverage for more money/energy/oil/food.
The truth is they are a starving nation in terms of food and energy, they have little to no commerce, wholly reliant upon China and south Korea for power and food surpluses. That is just to keep their own populace in somewhat check. They have concentration camps to keep absolute fear high. This is how they negotiate/blackmail for money and aid.
Yes they have a large army...... but not in terms of technology, according to most common intelligence reports if the military establishment was removed the populace would not "fight or rebel" and are not controlled by some crazy religion well besides worshipping the "great leader". They are a shorter korean species due to malnutrition, education levels are very low.
There is nothing to fear for Americans really. South Koreans YES because of some the amount of scuds and other missile systems they have pointed at south korea. Unless they were instantly taken out they would most definately launch everything they have in a last ditch effort to take down the south with themselves.
This is a very close and personal issue with me and one I have a lot of experience with. The north leadership is unpredictable to say the least so there is no gaurantees one way or the other. Logic does dictate this is mostly posturing and not to over react because this will eventually be settled basically in terms of aid given to them. They take the aid to stay in control and feed their military first and people with what ever they have left. This is basically their most important economic tool.
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I disagree. Military arms are N. Korea's primary, maybe only, export. The ability to develop
their long range missile with a nuke warhead?
Sales. Sales to Iran, sales to Syria, nukes to their proxies Hezbollah and Hamas...
sales to Venzuela, ...
It's all they have to try to be affluent enough to keep their God-forsaken country going.
We have a lot to worry about. N. Korea says they will go to war with Japan if the Japanese shoot it down.
Yeah, Jimmy Carter paid $$$$$$$$$$ to N. Korea on their word they wouldn't go forth with their dev of a nuke.
So, Carter admitted he was fooled. Now Obama has already proven himself to be a fool on other counts. We'll see.
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The answer is to do absolutely NOTHING. North Korean Missile capability is not the issue. We already know they have some level of fissile material and they also have the ability to deliver ranged attacks from land based missiles.
This is all posturing for attention for future leverage in negotiations with South Korea and a new administration in the United States. If they launch a new test missle it is no different than say Pakistan/India or hell even Iran/China testing out new military capabilities.
The North Korean regime is a bit unstable due to Kim Jong Il's age and health, one of his sons is currently being propted up as a possible successor by the military elite. This is the same tactic they have been using for decades.
Overreaction and attention only plays into their plan to leverage for more money/energy/oil/food.
The truth is they are a starving nation in terms of food and energy, they have little to no commerce, wholly reliant upon China and south Korea for power and food surpluses. That is just to keep their own populace in somewhat check. They have concentration camps to keep absolute fear high. This is how they negotiate/blackmail for money and aid.
Yes they have a large army...... but not in terms of technology, according to most common intelligence reports if the military establishment was removed the populace would not "fight or rebel" and are not controlled by some crazy religion well besides worshipping the "great leader". They are a shorter korean species due to malnutrition, education levels are very low.
There is nothing to fear for Americans really. South Koreans YES because of some the amount of scuds and other missile systems they have pointed at south korea. Unless they were instantly taken out they would most definately launch everything they have in a last ditch effort to take down the south with themselves.
This is a very close and personal issue with me and one I have a lot of experience with. The north leadership is unpredictable to say the least so there is no gaurantees one way or the other. Logic does dictate this is mostly posturing and not to over react because this will eventually be settled basically in terms of aid given to them. They take the aid to stay in control and feed their military first and people with what ever they have left. This is basically their most important economic tool.
The answer is to do absolutely NOTHING. North Korean Missile capability is not the issue. We already know they have some level of fissile material and they also have the ability to deliver ranged attacks from land based missiles.
This is all posturing for attention for future leverage in negotiations with South Korea and a new administration in the United States. If they launch a new test missle it is no different than say Pakistan/India or hell even Iran/China testing out new military capabilities.
The North Korean regime is a bit unstable due to Kim Jong Il's age and health, one of his sons is currently being propted up as a possible successor by the military elite. This is the same tactic they have been using for decades.
Overreaction and attention only plays into their plan to leverage for more money/energy/oil/food.
The truth is they are a starving nation in terms of food and energy, they have little to no commerce, wholly reliant upon China and south Korea for power and food surpluses. That is just to keep their own populace in somewhat check. They have concentration camps to keep absolute fear high. This is how they negotiate/blackmail for money and aid.
Yes they have a large army...... but not in terms of technology, according to most common intelligence reports if the military establishment was removed the populace would not "fight or rebel" and are not controlled by some crazy religion well besides worshipping the "great leader". They are a shorter korean species due to malnutrition, education levels are very low.
There is nothing to fear for Americans really. South Koreans YES because of some the amount of scuds and other missile systems they have pointed at south korea. Unless they were instantly taken out they would most definately launch everything they have in a last ditch effort to take down the south with themselves.
This is a very close and personal issue with me and one I have a lot of experience with. The north leadership is unpredictable to say the least so there is no gaurantees one way or the other. Logic does dictate this is mostly posturing and not to over react because this will eventually be settled basically in terms of aid given to them. They take the aid to stay in control and feed their military first and people with what ever they have left. This is basically their most important economic tool.
I agree Sev. Having served in the Western Pacific for years and been on many "Team Spirit" exercises, I can tell everyone one not familar with North Korea that they have been doing this for decades. They constantly threaten, challenge and aggravate to see how far they can go. I wouldn't worry about them "invading" Japan. This is posturing, nothing more.
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I disagree. Military arms are N. Korea's primary, maybe only, export. The ability to develop
their long range missile with a nuke warhead?
Sales. Sales to Iran, sales to Syria, nukes to their proxies Hezbollah and Hamas...
sales to Venzuela, ...
It's all they have to try to be affluent enough to keep their God-forsaken country going.
We have a lot to worry about. N. Korea says they will go to war with Japan if the Japanese shoot it down.
Yeah, Jimmy Carter paid $$$$$$$$$$ to N. Korea on their word they wouldn't go forth with their dev of a nuke.
So, Carter admitted he was fooled. Now Obama has already proven himself to be a fool on other counts. We'll see.
I disagree. Military arms are N. Korea's primary, maybe only, export. The ability to develop
their long range missile with a nuke warhead?
Sales. Sales to Iran, sales to Syria, nukes to their proxies Hezbollah and Hamas...
sales to Venzuela, ...
It's all they have to try to be affluent enough to keep their God-forsaken country going.
We have a lot to worry about. N. Korea says they will go to war with Japan if the Japanese shoot it down.
Yeah, Jimmy Carter paid $$$$$$$$$$ to N. Korea on their word they wouldn't go forth with their dev of a nuke.
So, Carter admitted he was fooled. Now Obama has already proven himself to be a fool on other counts. We'll see.
Almost did it Cal, almost made it without mentioning Obama or Carter for that matter. I am almost proud of you (pat on head).
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Cal I agree they do sell arms to anyone willing to buy. Its not a sustainable economy nor one they really have to means to compete in. China sells arms cheaper than the North koreans and China manufactures them. Hell Russia and even the U.S. sell more weapons in a month than North korea can in 5 years.
China and Venezuela have the big tie in, Russia and Iran has the big military tie in. Iran can sell to anyone within their own region. North Korea really is such a minor player now in the nuclear tech realm and the small arms world. Nuclear tech is now wide spread thanks to Khan from Pakistan. A lot of hostile countries have the information, North korea does not produce advanced weapons or really even small arms that other countries want that they cant already get cheaper direct.
Cal they cant keep their country going that is why they use these tactics to get aid from the international community.
Most likely they will fire some sort of medium range missile to prove they can and then wait for the international communities to want to "negotiate" with them and then barter from a percieved position of strength for oil/food/etc.
Its what they do. Honestly even though they are my people also I say ignore them to the point where they come begging to us not the other way around. They know (trust me on this) that they would get POUNDED probably within 3 days be totally dismantled if they actually ever decided to go live with some of their threats. South korea and Seoul especially would be brutally hurt but the North's Regime would be DONE if the U.S. really decided to .
The problem would be the MASSIVE refugees trying to flood into China and the South (would have its own massive rebuilding and problems) It simply is cheaper for us to placate them (especially now)
Diehard "team spirit" exercises..... March was always "fun" and a month I dreaded. ROK commanders were always extra hard leading up to those maneuvers to make sure we dont "lose face"..... Actually the exercises with the U.S. were not that bad it was the couple of months before I always knew to watch myself and push a little harder.
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Well, that's interesting. And I stand educated ! But when they say that N. Korea has fueled their missile, and that
means it won't be "unfueled"... I wonder if they are so desperate to go ahead and launch it...
Nice job, Sev.
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Cal I agree they do sell arms to anyone willing to buy. Its not a sustainable economy nor one they really have to means to compete in. China sells arms cheaper than the North koreans and China manufactures them. Hell Russia and even the U.S. sell more weapons in a month than North korea can in 5 years.
China and Venezuela have the big tie in, Russia and Iran has the big military tie in. Iran can sell to anyone within their own region. North Korea really is such a minor player now in the nuclear tech realm and the small arms world. Nuclear tech is now wide spread thanks to Khan from Pakistan. A lot of hostile countries have the information, North korea does not produce advanced weapons or really even small arms that other countries want that they cant already get cheaper direct.
Cal they cant keep their country going that is why they use these tactics to get aid from the international community.
Most likely they will fire some sort of medium range missile to prove they can and then wait for the international communities to want to "negotiate" with them and then barter from a percieved position of strength for oil/food/etc.
Its what they do. Honestly even though they are my people also I say ignore them to the point where they come begging to us not the other way around. They know (trust me on this) that they would get POUNDED probably within 3 days be totally dismantled if they actually ever decided to go live with some of their threats. South korea and Seoul especially would be brutally hurt but the North's Regime would be DONE if the U.S. really decided to .
The problem would be the MASSIVE refugees trying to flood into China and the South (would have its own massive rebuilding and problems) It simply is cheaper for us to placate them (especially now)
Diehard "team spirit" exercises..... March was always "fun" and a month I dreaded. ROK commanders were always extra hard leading up to those maneuvers to make sure we dont "lose face"..... Actually the exercises with the U.S. were not that bad it was the couple of months before I always knew to watch myself and push a little harder.
Cal I agree they do sell arms to anyone willing to buy. Its not a sustainable economy nor one they really have to means to compete in. China sells arms cheaper than the North koreans and China manufactures them. Hell Russia and even the U.S. sell more weapons in a month than North korea can in 5 years.
China and Venezuela have the big tie in, Russia and Iran has the big military tie in. Iran can sell to anyone within their own region. North Korea really is such a minor player now in the nuclear tech realm and the small arms world. Nuclear tech is now wide spread thanks to Khan from Pakistan. A lot of hostile countries have the information, North korea does not produce advanced weapons or really even small arms that other countries want that they cant already get cheaper direct.
Cal they cant keep their country going that is why they use these tactics to get aid from the international community.
Most likely they will fire some sort of medium range missile to prove they can and then wait for the international communities to want to "negotiate" with them and then barter from a percieved position of strength for oil/food/etc.
Its what they do. Honestly even though they are my people also I say ignore them to the point where they come begging to us not the other way around. They know (trust me on this) that they would get POUNDED probably within 3 days be totally dismantled if they actually ever decided to go live with some of their threats. South korea and Seoul especially would be brutally hurt but the North's Regime would be DONE if the U.S. really decided to .
The problem would be the MASSIVE refugees trying to flood into China and the South (would have its own massive rebuilding and problems) It simply is cheaper for us to placate them (especially now)
Diehard "team spirit" exercises..... March was always "fun" and a month I dreaded. ROK commanders were always extra hard leading up to those maneuvers to make sure we dont "lose face"..... Actually the exercises with the U.S. were not that bad it was the couple of months before I always knew to watch myself and push a little harder.
Wow OSU, you know your shit on this subject. Why hasn't the people of North Korea come around and get fed up with this shit?
I saw a special once where a English BBC reporter was allowed to go into the country. Some crazy stuff.
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Kosar the answer is pretty easy. Concentration camps.
Basically if any of your family extended or otherwise decides to flee to south korea or china they pick up ALL of your family meaning cousins 1-5th aunts,uncles whatever and toss them into a prison for life.
If you talk out in any way or complain against the government anywhere you are either inprisoned or well killed. If you dont turn someone else in for dissident talk than you are also treated the same.
Basically it is the ultimate envirement of fear. Not to mention millions have died and are dying from starvation so food control from the central government also keeps people in check.
Brainwashing of all the young in basically nazi/boy/girl scout organizations that worship their form of socialism is also firmly entrenched.
NO ONE has good intelligence on North korea because of the amount of control they exert over the entire populace not too mention their borders. Along the DMZ they have there own soldiers watching each other not just the south for the possibility of fleeing to the south.
The fear and control they exert is not matched anywhere in the world and possibly in history.
My family knows that IF that lunatic or any of his offspring lost it and actually became active in combat I would leave immediately and in all likelihood be absorbed in the U.S. Navy instead of the ROK military. From time to time I get notices from the South korean government (whom I disdain for their corruption) letting me know I can and will be reactivated IF the North loses their collective minds. I do however have a choice this time around on who I report to. The U.S. Navy would allow me to activate with my corresponding rank here which I would opt to do. That is one luxury Dual citizenship gives me now.
So yes I keep myself informed, right now I would not worry much about them. However within the next 10 years change is coming to the north. It could go either way, maybe like Cuba but I doubt it because well Castro and Cuba is much more stable than the North Koreans.
The military elite which really hold the power in the north need someone to prop up within the Kim family. They are in a precarious situation where they dont have enough money/food/power to sustain their positions. That is why this is so problematic for all of us.
The south has been planning and actively reaching out with programs to the north for the last few years because they know they would like to be in a economic position with other power players and with established relationships for a controlled unification possibility. Basically economic warfare and installment of some base infrastructure so we dont get flooded by refugees.
We will see one way or the other.
One thing I have always been very appreciative of is the U.S. Intervention made my life and the lives of my children possible. That is why all of my children will serve to pay back in some way the freedome we have been granted.
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Seriously Sev, I'm sorry I haven't given you very much credit for being really
in the know on these things in the past - I appreciate it. Very cool stuff.
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No big deal cal thanks for the compliment. I see those morons launched some sort of missile that fizzled and fell into the ocean lmao. Just wait for the "negotiation".
More of our money getting sent to those jerks. Money that could be used to help here... makes me angry.
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No big deal cal thanks for the compliment. I see those morons launched some sort of missile that fizzled and fell into the ocean lmao. Just wait for the "negotiation".
More of our money getting sent to those jerks. Money that could be used to help here... makes me angry.
No big deal cal thanks for the compliment. I see those morons launched some sort of missile that fizzled and fell into the ocean lmao. Just wait for the "negotiation".
More of our money getting sent to those jerks. Money that could be used to help here... makes me angry.
Both US and South Korea said that it ended it up the middle of the ocean. North Korea is claiming the launch was a success. Just playing devil's advocate here, if he is posturing and he said it is a success, then it would not really matter what his enemies (US and S. Korea) are claiming. Unless China comes out and says it was a failure N. Korea is going to ignore/mock our claims.
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We probably ought to worry ourselves more with Wile E. Coyote & his ACME rockets before we ever, ever worry about any missile from North Korea.
What's amazing is these guys have been neighbors to the inventors of rocketry and yet the fundamentals of rocket propulsion still eludes the land of Il.
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................... and meanwhile Obama is working on disarming the US nukes, while all these other nations that hate us are trying to build one that will reach us.
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