QB or Defensive Line/Edge Rusher at #2?
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All signs point that Bosa doesn't want to play in Cleveland. What if he leaves when he becomes a free agent? How many top DLinemen are overhyped as well?
Courtney Brown, Gerard Warren, ect
When's the last time we took a QB this high? and not at 22?
Tim Couch? that's more than 15 years ago....
Fuck it, Take a chance with Goff. I'm all-in.
Plus this year is deep for edge rushes and DLinemen.
If Hue and the staff hit a few gems on that later picks we'll be golden, and we need a ILB too....
But why not take a chance on Goff? If he's a leader, puts in the hard work, and has the heart, who's saying he can't be a Tom Brady?
I think we should draft a second QB in the later rounds as insurance though as well. Make Goff compete and have someone trying to beat him the whole time.
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There's this completely bizarre and unwarranted feeling that somehow the Browns can draft their franchise QB first and then build a line around him. It doesn't work like that. TN found that out this year.
Since I live in Nashville, I can tell you TN drafted Warmack and Lewan in the upper part of round 1 as well as signed OG Andy Levitre to a huge FA contract going your route. That's 60% of their line they hoped they invested wisely in. They also drafted a Center Brian Schwenke from Cal a couple years ago near the top of a mid round (who hasn't stayed healthy). So, you're saying they were foolish to draft Mariota...?
No, Flugs, apparently Cleve is saying they were foolish to do it just like he said we should... OL first then QB.
No, Flugs, apparently Cleve is saying they were foolish to do it just like he said we should... OL first then QB.
LOL. I, at least, like his understanding of how important the trenches are and his knowledge of experience. That said, my sniffer recognizes the back door opportunity to alley-oop homer hero Joey Bosa right before the 200th episode. In this thread, he reminds me of one of those Cowboys fans back in the day when he brought up our future is fine with Austin Davis and a 35 year old QB. It takes Austin Davis 3 hours to watch 60 Minutes because he's one of those slow processors that renders his bazooka completely useless.
It feels like yesterday when the Cowboys had THE Steve Walsh that had so many of their fans prematurely crying about what a horrible draft pick Troy Aikman was when their future was all set w/ Walsh. That poor fan base had to watch an inexperienced rookie QB go 0-11 while receiving 2 different concussions from Buddy's Bounty boys. All that because JJ couldn't see or understand they had STEVE WALSH man! Sound like a commercial Dennis Hopper should have done?
Apparently Jimmy Johnson was out of his mind to think he could also add a 270 lb Center like Mark Stepnoski (rd 3) the same draft as Aikman, Erik Williams in 91 (rd 3), Ray Allen in 94 (rd 2) to join the following guys already there: LT Mark Tuinei (undrafted & not quite Joe Thomas), Nate Newton (undrafted), Kevin Gogan, Tom Rafferty, and Crawford Kerr. Just out of curiosity, how many times did an efficient front office need to go offensive line in rd 1 before they put together one of the best offensive lines of my lifetime in 94: LT Mark Tuinei, LG Nate Newton, C Mark Stepnoski, RG Larry Allen, LT Erik Williams. Any question as to why Emmitt Smith would become an All-time Leader Rusher while Aikman's Superbowl Championship inventory would reach 3 even before 94? The key to remember, you can't get your dream line in just 1 draft or think SB Sunday following crummy football like 3-13. Today, we're the cumulative effect of 2 brain cells not on speaking terms in charge of the draft here that repeatedly didn't understand how important 2 first round draft picks were to advancing this franchise out of permanent park.
In fairness, there wasn't a Joey Bosa curing cancer, ending terrorism, and solving world hunger in between his hobby of walking on water in Ohio to save Jimmy Johnson from making the mistake of drafting a QB capable of 3 SB Championships. Also keep in mind, they must have had a Nostradamus type of vision ahead knowing they could draft a really good eventual backup to Tony Castillas and Danny Noonan named Russell Maryland with their first overall pick in 91. There IS that.
BUT, there have been many mock drafts willing to misunderstand that the prospect they want wasn't playing in a 34 D 5 technique while Cupid recruited their hearts long before Valentine's Day this Hallmark holiday season. The good news is some mock drafts have received some smelling salts and are starting to realize some teams in the top 5 don't use 4 man fronts very often at all (such as both teams Horton worked for). He's going to be asked to be Brett Keisel in THIS type of defense not to be confused with a Greg Lloyd, James Harrison, or Joey Porter. Oh wait, Keisel didn't go to Ohio State so let's just use Cameron Heyward. Good player, good draft pick but not #2 overall reach material especially considering that same franchise was able to find a long time gem like Keisel somewhere around the 6th or 7th round.
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Are you saying we have a bad offensive line?There's this completely bizarre and unwarranted feeling that somehow the Browns can draft their franchise QB first and then build a line around him. It doesn't work like that. TN found that out this year.
There's this completely bizarre and unwarranted feeling that we need five first round offensive linemen to be "good". It doesn't work like that.
Are you saying we have a bad offensive line?
There's this completely bizarre and unwarranted feeling that we need five first round offensive linemen to be "good". It doesn't work like that.
we just need to have a good line, I don't give a fuck where they come from. And yes i'm absolutely saying we do not have a good offensive line....are you in disgreement? If so were you on a spiritual sabbatical in some hindu temple all season and happened to miss another year of watching Cleveland QB"s have to throw balls with defensive lineman hanging from their arms?
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Id agree that the OL didnt have a good season, but they showed they could be pretty solid the year prior. I dont know how much not having a coach hurt them, but you gotta think it did. Assuming we kept our starting 5, who would you recommend we replace first? Because, man for man, I cant really single out a guy that made us worse or really stuck out as bad. Though, Mack was kind of rough and its looking like we'll get the chance to replace him. And Cam is terrible in relief. But Greco, Schwartz& Thomas are all proven solid players...and Id stick with Bito for a while before I thought of replacing him....
So....in summary....to me, it's a conundrum on how(or with whom) you improve the line over what we have....ideas???
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Are you saying we have a bad offensive line?
There's this completely bizarre and unwarranted feeling that we need five first round offensive linemen to be "good". It doesn't work like that.
we just need to have a good line, I don't give a fuck where they come from. And yes i'm absolutely saying we do not have a good offensive line....are you in disgreement? If so were you on a spiritual sabbatical in some hindu temple all season and happened to miss another year of watching Cleveland QB"s have to throw balls with defensive lineman hanging from their arms?
we just need to have a good line, I don't give a fuck where they come from. And yes i'm absolutely saying we do not have a good offensive line....are you in disgreement? If so were you on a spiritual sabbatical in some hindu temple all season and happened to miss another year of watching Cleveland QB"s have to throw balls with defensive lineman hanging from their arms?
They had a poor year, but we have one of the top five most talented lines in the league, regardless of your completely wrong opinion of them.
Jesus Christ, there's one every year...
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
qb's need wr's to throw to.
and yes, there's always at least one every year.
It's often Cleve.....
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Id agree that the OL didnt have a good season, but they showed they could be pretty solid the year prior. I dont know how much not having a coach hurt them, but you gotta think it did. Assuming we kept our starting 5, who would you recommend we replace first? Because, man for man, I cant really single out a guy that made us worse or really stuck out as bad. Though, Mack was kind of rough and its looking like we'll get the chance to replace him. And Cam is terrible in relief. But Greco, Schwartz& Thomas are all proven solid players...and Id stick with Bito for a while before I thought of replacing him....
So....in summary....to me, it's a conundrum on how(or with whom) you improve the line over what we have....ideas???
Id agree that the OL didnt have a good season, but they showed they could be pretty solid the year prior. I dont know how much not having a coach hurt them, but you gotta think it did. Assuming we kept our starting 5, who would you recommend we replace first? Because, man for man, I cant really single out a guy that made us worse or really stuck out as bad. Though, Mack was kind of rough and its looking like we'll get the chance to replace him. And Cam is terrible in relief. But Greco, Schwartz& Thomas are all proven solid players...and Id stick with Bito for a while before I thought of replacing him....
So....in summary....to me, it's a conundrum on how(or with whom) you improve the line over what we have....ideas???
Not personal imo. Loss of Andy Moeller lead to more power schemes late season & less ZBS maybe. Finding some backs with vision & balance that can cut off a Blitzer before getting to QB may help. Finding double TE's that can block a edge rusher or picking up a edge blitz would be nice also. It's not all the OL to blame. Malcolm Johnson has no answers either imo. Most talk is pre talk drama IF Mack, Schwartz or Pasztor leaves. Leaving it up to Erving. March 9th stay tuned. HueNotLeavingCLandNow!!
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No, Flugs, apparently Cleve is saying they were foolish to do it just like he said we should... OL first then QB.
LOL. I, at least, like his understanding of how important the trenches are and his knowledge of experience. That said, my sniffer recognizes the back door opportunity to alley-oop homer hero Joey Bosa right before the 200th episode. In this thread, he reminds me of one of those Cowboys fans back in the day when he brought up our future is fine with Austin Davis and a 35 year old QB. It takes Austin Davis 3 hours to watch 60 Minutes because he's one of those slow processors that renders his bazooka completely useless.
It feels like yesterday when the Cowboys had THE Steve Walsh that had so many of their fans prematurely crying about what a horrible draft pick Troy Aikman was when their future was all set w/ Walsh. That poor fan base had to watch an inexperienced rookie QB go 0-11 while receiving 2 different concussions from Buddy's Bounty boys. All that because JJ couldn't see or understand they had STEVE WALSH man! Sound like a commercial Dennis Hopper should have done?
Apparently Jimmy Johnson was out of his mind to think he could also add a 270 lb Center like Mark Stepnoski (rd 3) the same draft as Aikman, Erik Williams in 91 (rd 3), Ray Allen in 94 (rd 2) to join the following guys already there: LT Mark Tuinei (undrafted & not quite Joe Thomas), Nate Newton (undrafted), Kevin Gogan, Tom Rafferty, and Crawford Kerr. Just out of curiosity, how many times did an efficient front office need to go offensive line in rd 1 before they put together one of the best offensive lines of my lifetime in 94: LT Mark Tuinei, LG Nate Newton, C Mark Stepnoski, RG Larry Allen, LT Erik Williams. Any question as to why Emmitt Smith would become an All-time Leader Rusher while Aikman's Superbowl Championship inventory would reach 3 even before 94? The key to remember, you can't get your dream line in just 1 draft or think SB Sunday following crummy football like 3-13. Today, we're the cumulative effect of 2 brain cells not on speaking terms in charge of the draft here that repeatedly didn't understand how important 2 first round draft picks were to advancing this franchise out of permanent park.
In fairness, there wasn't a Joey Bosa curing cancer, ending terrorism, and solving world hunger in between his hobby of walking on water in Ohio to save Jimmy Johnson from making the mistake of drafting a QB capable of 3 SB Championships. Also keep in mind, they must have had a Nostradamus type of vision ahead knowing they could draft a really good eventual backup to Tony Castillas and Danny Noonan named Russell Maryland with their first overall pick in 91. There IS that.
BUT, there have been many mock drafts willing to misunderstand that the prospect they want wasn't playing in a 34 D 5 technique while Cupid recruited their hearts long before Valentine's Day this Hallmark holiday season. The good news is some mock drafts have received some smelling salts and are starting to realize some teams in the top 5 don't use 4 man fronts very often at all (such as both teams Horton worked for). He's going to be asked to be Brett Keisel in THIS type of defense not to be confused with a Greg Lloyd, James Harrison, or Joey Porter. Oh wait, Keisel didn't go to Ohio State so let's just use Cameron Heyward. Good player, good draft pick but not #2 overall reach material especially considering that same franchise was able to find a long time gem like Keisel somewhere around the 6th or 7th round.
LOL. I, at least, like his understanding of how important the trenches are and his knowledge of experience. That said, my sniffer recognizes the back door opportunity to alley-oop homer hero Joey Bosa right before the 200th episode. In this thread, he reminds me of one of those Cowboys fans back in the day when he brought up our future is fine with Austin Davis and a 35 year old QB. It takes Austin Davis 3 hours to watch 60 Minutes because he's one of those slow processors that renders his bazooka completely useless.
It feels like yesterday when the Cowboys had THE Steve Walsh that had so many of their fans prematurely crying about what a horrible draft pick Troy Aikman was when their future was all set w/ Walsh. That poor fan base had to watch an inexperienced rookie QB go 0-11 while receiving 2 different concussions from Buddy's Bounty boys. All that because JJ couldn't see or understand they had STEVE WALSH man! Sound like a commercial Dennis Hopper should have done?
Apparently Jimmy Johnson was out of his mind to think he could also add a 270 lb Center like Mark Stepnoski (rd 3) the same draft as Aikman, Erik Williams in 91 (rd 3), Ray Allen in 94 (rd 2) to join the following guys already there: LT Mark Tuinei (undrafted & not quite Joe Thomas), Nate Newton (undrafted), Kevin Gogan, Tom Rafferty, and Crawford Kerr. Just out of curiosity, how many times did an efficient front office need to go offensive line in rd 1 before they put together one of the best offensive lines of my lifetime in 94: LT Mark Tuinei, LG Nate Newton, C Mark Stepnoski, RG Larry Allen, LT Erik Williams. Any question as to why Emmitt Smith would become an All-time Leader Rusher while Aikman's Superbowl Championship inventory would reach 3 even before 94? The key to remember, you can't get your dream line in just 1 draft or think SB Sunday following crummy football like 3-13. Today, we're the cumulative effect of 2 brain cells not on speaking terms in charge of the draft here that repeatedly didn't understand how important 2 first round draft picks were to advancing this franchise out of permanent park.
In fairness, there wasn't a Joey Bosa curing cancer, ending terrorism, and solving world hunger in between his hobby of walking on water in Ohio to save Jimmy Johnson from making the mistake of drafting a QB capable of 3 SB Championships. Also keep in mind, they must have had a Nostradamus type of vision ahead knowing they could draft a really good eventual backup to Tony Castillas and Danny Noonan named Russell Maryland with their first overall pick in 91. There IS that.
BUT, there have been many mock drafts willing to misunderstand that the prospect they want wasn't playing in a 34 D 5 technique while Cupid recruited their hearts long before Valentine's Day this Hallmark holiday season. The good news is some mock drafts have received some smelling salts and are starting to realize some teams in the top 5 don't use 4 man fronts very often at all (such as both teams Horton worked for). He's going to be asked to be Brett Keisel in THIS type of defense not to be confused with a Greg Lloyd, James Harrison, or Joey Porter. Oh wait, Keisel didn't go to Ohio State so let's just use Cameron Heyward. Good player, good draft pick but not #2 overall reach material especially considering that same franchise was able to find a long time gem like Keisel somewhere around the 6th or 7th round.
Those '90s Cowboys lines were good.
I think we have a more of a finesse line, a la the '81-90 49ers.
Bubba Paris
Keith Fahnhorst
Randy Cross
Jesse Sapolu
John Ayers
Later Steve Wallace replaced Bubba due to weight problems at LT.
The line we have is composed of technicians. I know Flip was able to get them to run with power a few games at the end, but I think that was a function of them just gelling under a yet another new system.
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OK-SB Nation says.....................................................
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we just need to have a good line, I don't give a fuck where they come from. And yes i'm absolutely saying we do not have a good offensive line....are you in disgreement? If so were you on a spiritual sabbatical in some hindu temple all season and happened to miss another year of watching Cleveland QB"s have to throw balls with defensive lineman hanging from their arms?
They had a poor year, but we have one of the top five most talented lines in the league, regardless of your completely wrong opinion of them.
Jesus Christ, there's one every year...
They had a poor year, but we have one of the top five most talented lines in the league, regardless of your completely wrong opinion of them.
Jesus Christ, there's one every year...
yeah you're right they were awesome. I honestly didn't realize just how next level they were cutting primary pass rushers loose on the QB. I don't know why I didn't realize QB's in this league throw so much better with 300lb men hanging off their shoulders. I should just quit watching football because clearly the game has passed me by since my playing days.
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Id agree that the OL didnt have a good season, but they showed they could be pretty solid the year prior. I dont know how much not having a coach hurt them, but you gotta think it did. Assuming we kept our starting 5, who would you recommend we replace first? Because, man for man, I cant really single out a guy that made us worse or really stuck out as bad. Though, Mack was kind of rough and its looking like we'll get the chance to replace him. And Cam is terrible in relief. But Greco, Schwartz& Thomas are all proven solid players...and Id stick with Bito for a while before I thought of replacing him....
So....in summary....to me, it's a conundrum on how(or with whom) you improve the line over what we have....ideas???
Id agree that the OL didnt have a good season, but they showed they could be pretty solid the year prior. I dont know how much not having a coach hurt them, but you gotta think it did. Assuming we kept our starting 5, who would you recommend we replace first? Because, man for man, I cant really single out a guy that made us worse or really stuck out as bad. Though, Mack was kind of rough and its looking like we'll get the chance to replace him. And Cam is terrible in relief. But Greco, Schwartz& Thomas are all proven solid players...and Id stick with Bito for a while before I thought of replacing him....
So....in summary....to me, it's a conundrum on how(or with whom) you improve the line over what we have....ideas???
Like everything contiunuity is crucial. Of course I concede the constant scheme changes have a large part to do with the killshots we allowed on our QB's this year.
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