Rams cut Laurinaitis and Long.....i'd take em in a heartbeat.
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Of course I'm comparing their college performance. Watt has done nothing but become a better player since being drafted. I pray Joey does the same.
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Point taken and agree that Tunsil is the clear "Best in Show" for 2016... (Yes, I watched Westminster with the wife....)
Is Spence the equal of either Mack or Miller? Not positive, but I like his odds of being mentionable in the same sentence with them.
When I caught sight of Spence going into Sr. Bowl week, he was a mid to late-2nd rounder. Mid to late 2nd rounders are not talked about a great deal. Now he's top half of the 1st and poised to crack the top ten, where I think he'll end up after the Combine.
Certainly has all the physical tools to compare. If I'm not mistaken the criticism for Spence is the lack of a counter move and that he struggles against the run. Definitely two things that can be fixed with NFL coaching and strength training.
I think the lack of 1st round buzz prior to the Senior Bowl was due to playing at Eastern Kentucky. If he was still playing at Ohio State, Bosa would be playing second fiddle to Spence.
If I'm not mistaken the criticism for Spence is the lack of a counter move and that he struggles against the run. Definitely two things that can be fixed with NFL coaching and strength training.
I think the lack of 1st round buzz prior to the Senior Bowl was due to playing at Eastern Kentucky. If he was still playing at Ohio State, Bosa would be playing second fiddle to Spence.
Ummm, so has Mingo gotten bigger and stronger and now doesn't struggle against the run? Some things are instinctual and some things can be taught. Spence "maybe" would have started at the other side at OSU. But make no mistake Bosa is far and away a more complete player than Spence...it's not even close. Bosa could hack it on an NFL field "right now" whereas Spence would get tossed around like Mingo has for the last 3 years.
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Of course I'm comparing their college performance. Watt has done nothing but become a better player since being drafted. I pray Joey does the same.
Of course I'm comparing their college performance. Watt has done nothing but become a better player since being drafted. I pray Joey does the same.
I think the game has changed since Watt played. Even college teams that run 4-3's are expecting more form their DE's. I think the days of "pure" pass rushers are over. Not that Watt couldn't have done the same, but his tape looks like he's just in QB kill mode constantly. Joey just looks more refined right now than Watt did at this level.
I think anybody that has watched Texans games would find it hard to disagree, when they line up Watt like a 4-3 DE....its just not even fair. I remember Reggie White fairly well and he was great...maybe i'm not remembering him well enough but it just looks like Watt utterly destroys an OT's outside shoulder that he feels like. He almost doesn't have to take an arc to the QB, he just obliterates the tackles outside shoulder. And if the tackle steps out too far to compensate Watt just turns into him and deposits him in the QB's jock. If we could get a guy that's even half that good......I mean shit.
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Watts pure stats would be stupid had he gone to a 4-3 team. He may not have been overall as effective against the run playing on the outside, but he would have destroyed sack records.
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and something for you all to think about. Buffalo is likely gonna cut Mario at some point here soon...if we were running a 4-3 we could make an offer to Mario and Long. Draft Bosa and we have a DE rotation unmatched in football with Orchard in there.
You wanna talk about a nascar package? Throw all 4 guys in there on long downs.
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. I wanted to see this guy dominate Michigan State the way Bama's front line did. If we surveyed Sparty's Offensive line - which 1st round defensive line prospects would they tell us are more overrated - Bosa or Bama's?
I remembered
If I recall that game correctly, Bosa was triple teamed on a bunch of plays....and the QB almost the entire game rolled out to his left immediately. Even the announcers like 5 minutes into the game were marveling at how much Bosa affected the Spartans usual offensive game plan. It couldn't have been more obvious from the first snap who MSU was trying to neutralize on that front 4.
If I recall that game correctly, Bosa was triple teamed on a bunch of plays....and the QB almost the entire game rolled out to his left immediately. Even the announcers like 5 minutes into the game were marveling at how much Bosa affected the Spartans usual offensive game plan. It couldn't have been more obvious from the first snap who MSU was trying to neutralize on that front 4.
You didn't recall it correctly the day after the game either. We've had this conversation a few times. MSU ran right at Bosa (w/out any double teams) throughout the 2nd half in their game tying and go ahead scoring drives as well as the other drive they missed a FG on. They even iso'd a tall skinny TE #83 on him who drove him from 1 side of my television screen off the other side. The 1 time in the first half they moved Bosa inside, the guy who took his place got a sack.
Also, if you remember the game - MSU had their 3rd string QB in on a night the wind and rain conditions were awful to throw the ball forecasting a lot of predictability running the ball (especially where efficient in half 2). You have the Fightless Illini matchup entrenched in your head so you always auto-default to - "they were triple teaming the poor guy."
I watched that entire game waiting for this guy you're always describing to show me why we shouldn't have any other choice at #2. I never did nor did I see a guy ready to dominate all night. Neither did MSU, which is why they were able to single him up so frequently and get blockers on all the collateral Buckeyes around him.
When guys like Reggie White and JJ Watt get chipped by a TE and also have/had a RB between the guy they're beating and the QB - they rarely needed excuses and alibis. Remember why you told someone you didn't like it when Bosa moved inside? You didn't want him getting double-teamed. This version of Superman sure has a lot kryptonite to worry about especially if the team and DC that takes him plans on frequently putting him in a 5 technique.
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and something for you all to think about. Buffalo is likely gonna cut Mario at some point here soon...if we were running a 4-3 we could make an offer to Mario and Long. Draft Bosa and we have a DE rotation unmatched in football with Orchard in there.
You wanna talk about a nascar package? Throw all 4 guys in there on long downs.
and something for you all to think about. Buffalo is likely gonna cut Mario at some point here soon...if we were running a 4-3 we could make an offer to Mario and Long. Draft Bosa and we have a DE rotation unmatched in football with Orchard in there.
You wanna talk about a nascar package? Throw all 4 guys in there on long downs.
Sounds unnecessarily expensive.
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Re: The Tale of Two Bosas...
Easy enough to review.... http://draftbreakdown.com/video/joey-bosa-vs-michigan-state-2015/
Suffice it to say there were no triple teams, only one, true double by my count (when shifted to RDE) and a couple more chips.
Also they ran through his position only three times I saw in the 2nd... mostly ran middle and away. Bosa managed to chase down a couple of runs over Center, but only after positive gains. Interestingly two of the runs over him were on back-to-back plays after Bosa's third and final Offsides of the game. It was like they knew he'd ease up after the call.
Pass rush was most telling thing I saw... he did not have one. And he was against a stiff RT. Most the the time when he tried to generate a rush, Bosa ran upfield and then tried to bend around behind the QB. Got close on a couple... Opened escape lanes for the QB in a couple more. However, Hubbard came in for two plays and carved to edges with the second resulting in a hard, fumble-producing sack.
Most disturbing was Joey's lack of engagement until late and then it was too late(?). Why? It was a big game.
Not a game tape an agent would cue up to sell his client.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Re: The Tale of Two Bosas...
Easy enough to review.... http://draftbreakdown.com/video/joey-bosa-vs-michigan-state-2015/
Suffice it to say there were no triple teams, only one, true double by my count (when shifted to RDE) and a couple more chips.
Also they ran through his position only three times I saw in the 2nd... mostly ran middle and away. Bosa managed to chase down a couple of runs over Center, but only after positive gains. Interestingly two of the runs over him were on back-to-back plays after Bosa's third and final Offsides of the game. It was like they knew he'd ease up after the call.
Pass rush was most telling thing I saw... he did not have one. And he was against a stiff RT. Most the the time when he tried to generate a rush, Bosa ran upfield and then tried to bend around behind the QB. Got close on a couple... Opened escape lanes for the QB in a couple more. However, Hubbard came in for two plays and carved to edges with the second resulting in a hard, fumble-producing sack.
Most disturbing was Joey's lack of engagement until late and then it was too late(?). Why? It was a big game.
Not a game tape an agent would cue up to sell his client.
Re: The Tale of Two Bosas...
Easy enough to review.... http://draftbreakdown.com/video/joey-bosa-vs-michigan-state-2015/
Suffice it to say there were no triple teams, only one, true double by my count (when shifted to RDE) and a couple more chips.
Also they ran through his position only three times I saw in the 2nd... mostly ran middle and away. Bosa managed to chase down a couple of runs over Center, but only after positive gains. Interestingly two of the runs over him were on back-to-back plays after Bosa's third and final Offsides of the game. It was like they knew he'd ease up after the call.
Pass rush was most telling thing I saw... he did not have one. And he was against a stiff RT. Most the the time when he tried to generate a rush, Bosa ran upfield and then tried to bend around behind the QB. Got close on a couple... Opened escape lanes for the QB in a couple more. However, Hubbard came in for two plays and carved to edges with the second resulting in a hard, fumble-producing sack.
Most disturbing was Joey's lack of engagement until late and then it was too late(?). Why? It was a big game.
Not a game tape an agent would cue up to sell his client.
Good analysis. I didn't see a great tackler either. It looked like some designed inside runs had the RB cutting out his way in the second half. Anytime they ran right of Center in that 2nd half - was there a need to put more than 1 blocker on Bosa?
That Hubbard sack is the one I kept mentioning but the mistake I made was Joey didn't kick inside - he went out to RDE as you alluded to. Thanks for showing the video so those that study prospects can see Joey doesn't get chipped and deal with a RB pass protecting any more than a lot of other edge rushers in this draft. And how often did MSU need to double him when they ran to the right side of Center especially in the 2nd half?
I think Bosa can be a good DE in the right system; but I have no reason to consider him gotta have at #2 overall.
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Re: The Tale of Two Bosas...
Easy enough to review.... http://draftbreakdown.com/video/joey-bosa-vs-michigan-state-2015/
Suffice it to say there were no triple teams, only one, true double by my count (when shifted to RDE) and a couple more chips.
Also they ran through his position only three times I saw in the 2nd... mostly ran middle and away. Bosa managed to chase down a couple of runs over Center, but only after positive gains. Interestingly two of the runs over him were on back-to-back plays after Bosa's third and final Offsides of the game. It was like they knew he'd ease up after the call.
Pass rush was most telling thing I saw... he did not have one. And he was against a stiff RT. Most the the time when he tried to generate a rush, Bosa ran upfield and then tried to bend around behind the QB. Got close on a couple... Opened escape lanes for the QB in a couple more. However, Hubbard came in for two plays and carved to edges with the second resulting in a hard, fumble-producing sack.
Most disturbing was Joey's lack of engagement until late and then it was too late(?). Why? It was a big game.
Not a game tape an agent would cue up to sell his client.
Good analysis. I didn't see a great tackler either. It looked like some designed inside runs had the RB cutting out his way in the second half. Anytime they ran right of Center in that 2nd half - was there a need to put more than 1 blocker on Bosa?
That Hubbard sack is the one I kept mentioning but the mistake I made was Joey didn't kick inside - he went out to RDE as you alluded to. Thanks for showing the video so those that study prospects can see Joey doesn't get chipped and deal with a RB pass protecting any more than a lot of other edge rushers in this draft. And how often did MSU need to double him when they ran to the right side of Center especially in the 2nd half?
I think Bosa can be a good DE in the right system; but I have no reason to consider him gotta have at #2 overall.
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