Camp Wentz- Starts here.
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Good stuff. Didn't read the Reddit thing or any of Schofeld's other work extensively. I'm trying to keep away from reading too much while I finish up my evals.Links to any raw footage are fine, Mike... Time is something I have plenty of.
On the link you provided...
I see the initial look Schofield points out. Wentz definitely checked out the rotation of the Safety high. But I disagree with his assessment of the correctness of the read. Also note that the Corners tipped the coverage with the one to the top shaded inside and the slot shaded outside.
My take is everything points to targeting the TE running the post once he clears the LBs under. The TE post essentially wrong foots the Safety rolling to the single high and the CB to the top is locked into man-on-man and running himself out of the play. Clearing the flat-footed LB should have been a given... should have been seen. Even allowing for the influence of the throw on the single-high safety, I think the TE was a much easier completion. But it was a completion that required seeing the window, not an open receiver.
In the Pros, with limited downfield contact allowed, a back shoulder to the single-covered WR would be a viable choice as well. Again, viable only if the window is recognized.
Instead I see Wentz electing to throw into the teeth of the coverage... and a bit behind his WR to boot. A completion to the wrong receiver in my eyes. I think he saw an open receiver there... in a window.
Interestingly I was critiquing a Schofield article over on Reddit earlier today.
Only have gotten as far as his initial comparison of Goff and Wentz's footwork... with which I also shockingly disagreed.
But then Scho was claiming that Wentz standing still was footwork.I do like Scho's toys though...
Interestingly the same defense used in your clip was used in a red zone situation against Wentz in the article's first example of his standing still footwork...
But I do disagree that he threw into the teeth of the defense. You're nitpicking this play a little bit too much IMO. He read the field, processed what he saw quickly, and completed a pass into a tight-ish window. A very nice, catchable first down pass, I might add, that fell in between two defenders.
And Larry asked if Wentz can process information fast enough.
I don't think -- no, I know -- that even highly successful quarterbacks without the benefit of hindsight, will miss a read or hypothetical window multiple times per game.
I'm curious to your thoughts.
Good stuff. Didn't read the Reddit thing or any of Schofeld's other work extensively. I'm trying to keep away from reading too much while I finish up my evals.
But I do disagree that he threw into the teeth of the defense. You're nitpicking this play a little bit too much IMO. He read the field, processed what he saw quickly, and completed a pass into a tight-ish window. A very nice, catchable first down pass, I might add, that fell in between two defenders.
And Larry asked if Wentz can process information fast enough.
I don't think -- no, I know -- that even highly successful quarterbacks without the benefit of hindsight, will miss a read or hypothetical window multiple times per game.
I'm curious to your thoughts.
First... me nitpick? lol....
Did look again and that second look at the WR right that Wentz took... that was what the Safety told him to do, so that's one good read for Kid Carson. But then he did look at the TE and should have been right about the time he was even with the LILB (an all-22 would erase all doubt). That was the throw, right there. Just feels like he had to see a WR open that play... same as many other throws in the five games I've watched him. The requisite anticipation may come, but I already see it in "the other guy"... regularly.
Yup, between two defenders and over a third, but (nitpick alert) the throw was slightly behind the slot receiver and the place to miss was definitely inside given the RCB closing from his near sideline zone responsibility. Wentz is not shy about forcing a ball into coverage... which the body count of three converging defenders tells me was the "teeth" in this play. That worked at the FCS level, but NFL??? Only the single high was in position to close on the TE.
Totally agree with your point that even All-Pros miss reads. We saw P. Manning do it in CLE this past year. But we don't see them do it repeatedly into the same look.
Check out the first "footwork play" for Wentz in the article I linked above. Same D... same progression, but this time CW locked onto his first progression and threw incomplete in his direction while two other receivers put the single-high in a terrible bind. I think either may have been a TD, but am certain the top of these two (again the TE IIRC) was an easy 6.
What I need to do is watch that game's cut-up in its entirety and see how any other throws against the same D fared. Hard for me to judge processing speed when I question the ultimate decision.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
From Johnny Football to "Kid Carson". I like the ring of it Tour. It's so.................................Brownsian. Better than #20 whatever I suppose. LOL!
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As long as Wentz doesn't see it and think "trademark"...
Of course if we do go the way of a certain defender, there's always...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I always laugh when I compare Elvis's version with some true bossa nova like this.
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Good stuff. Didn't read the Reddit thing or any of Schofeld's other work extensively. I'm trying to keep away from reading too much while I finish up my evals.
But I do disagree that he threw into the teeth of the defense. You're nitpicking this play a little bit too much IMO. He read the field, processed what he saw quickly, and completed a pass into a tight-ish window. A very nice, catchable first down pass, I might add, that fell in between two defenders.
And Larry asked if Wentz can process information fast enough.
I don't think -- no, I know -- that even highly successful quarterbacks without the benefit of hindsight, will miss a read or hypothetical window multiple times per game.
I'm curious to your thoughts.
First... me nitpick? lol....
Did look again and that second look at the WR right that Wentz took... that was what the Safety told him to do, so that's one good read for Kid Carson. But then he did look at the TE and should have been right about the time he was even with the LILB (an all-22 would erase all doubt). That was the throw, right there. Just feels like he had to see a WR open that play... same as many other throws in the five games I've watched him. The requisite anticipation may come, but I already see it in "the other guy"... regularly.
Yup, between two defenders and over a third, but (nitpick alert) the throw was slightly behind the slot receiver and the place to miss was definitely inside given the RCB closing from his near sideline zone responsibility. Wentz is not shy about forcing a ball into coverage... which the body count of three converging defenders tells me was the "teeth" in this play. That worked at the FCS level, but NFL??? Only the single high was in position to close on the TE.
Totally agree with your point that even All-Pros miss reads. We saw P. Manning do it in CLE this past year. But we don't see them do it repeatedly into the same look.
Check out the first "footwork play" for Wentz in the article I linked above. Same D... same progression, but this time CW locked onto his first progression and threw incomplete in his direction while two other receivers put the single-high in a terrible bind. I think either may have been a TD, but am certain the top of these two (again the TE IIRC) was an easy 6.
What I need to do is watch that game's cut-up in its entirety and see how any other throws against the same D fared. Hard for me to judge processing speed when I question the ultimate decision.
Off tomorrow, I'll take a look at the RZ play. Worth noting CW had the highest (by far) RZ numbers in this QB class.First... me nitpick? lol....
Did look again and that second look at the WR right that Wentz took... that was what the Safety told him to do, so that's one good read for Kid Carson. But then he did look at the TE and should have been right about the time he was even with the LILB (an all-22 would erase all doubt). That was the throw, right there. Just feels like he had to see a WR open that play... same as many other throws in the five games I've watched him. The requisite anticipation may come, but I already see it in "the other guy"... regularly.
Yup, between two defenders and over a third, but (nitpick alert) the throw was slightly behind the slot receiver and the place to miss was definitely inside given the RCB closing from his near sideline zone responsibility. Wentz is not shy about forcing a ball into coverage... which the body count of three converging defenders tells me was the "teeth" in this play. That worked at the FCS level, but NFL??? Only the single high was in position to close on the TE.
Totally agree with your point that even All-Pros miss reads. We saw P. Manning do it in CLE this past year. But we don't see them do it repeatedly into the same look.
Check out the first "footwork play" for Wentz in the article I linked above. Same D... same progression, but this time CW locked onto his first progression and threw incomplete in his direction while two other receivers put the single-high in a terrible bind. I think either may have been a TD, but am certain the top of these two (again the TE IIRC) was an easy 6.
What I need to do is watch that game's cut-up in its entirety and see how any other throws against the same D fared. Hard for me to judge processing speed when I question the ultimate decision.
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As long as Wentz doesn't see it and think "trademark"...
Of course if we do go the way of a certain defender, there's always...
As long as Wentz doesn't see it and think "trademark"...
Of course if we do go the way of a certain defender, there's always...
LOL, Hanford Dixon has said he'd be a much richer man if he had trademarked "Dawg Pound" while he had the chance.
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This is a very interesting read.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Well D Bone, at least he shouldn't have as many bad habits from throwing out of a shotgun formation all the time right?!
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"What says more than anything about getting to the point where we are now, Carson prepared like he was the guy every day for three years. When his chance to start finally came, he was more than ready to go.
That says a lot, especially in todayβs culture and society.
For him to dig in when he wasnβt starting, he was still considered one of our leadersβwhich is really difficult to do when you play quarterback and youβre not the guy."
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"Wentz only started two seasons and played in a run-dominant scheme."What could go wrong?
Worked out well for Luck at Stanford.
Not that I'm saying they're the same. However Stanford was a run first/heavy run team.
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Worked out well for Luck at Stanford.
Not that I'm saying they're the same. However Stanford was a run first/heavy run team.
The difference with Luck was he played for one of the top teams in the country, against some of the best competition in the country. Also, he was the #1 rated QB for his final 2yrs, not just from a weekend in shorts and a tank top......... Big, big difference between the two. Not even close.
I'm not saying he won't be the Browns savior, hopefully he will, but he is a reach, especially at 2.
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Worked out well for Luck at Stanford.
Not that I'm saying they're the same. However Stanford was a run first/heavy run team.
Despite the fact that the article had overwhelming positive and interesting quotes regarding Wentz's character, intelligence, and mentality, some people will only see what they want to see.
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Worked out well for Luck at Stanford.
Not that I'm saying they're the same. However Stanford was a run first/heavy run team.
The difference with Luck was he played for one of the top teams in the country, against some of the best competition in the country. Also, he was the #1 rated QB for his final 2yrs, not just from a weekend in shorts and a tank top......... Big, big difference between the two. Not even close.
I'm not saying he won't be the Browns savior, hopefully he will, but he is a reach, especially at 2.
The difference with Luck was he played for one of the top teams in the country, against some of the best competition in the country. Also, he was the #1 rated QB for his final 2yrs, not just from a weekend in shorts and a tank top......... Big, big difference between the two. Not even close.
I'm not saying he won't be the Browns savior, hopefully he will, but he is a reach, especially at 2.
Just because you didn't know who the guy was until last weekend doesn't mean the rest of us didn't.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Heard about Wentz from Mayock well before the Senior Bowl, we're talking December. Was watching his games shortly after.
There were actually a lot of mock drafts having Wentz go #2 to Browns before/during Sr Bowl practice week.
He's not really a Combine Creation like you're saying DBone.
@TonyPauline: Jets, Browns, Texans & Rams have personnel ppl & scouts on hand to watch Carson Wentz/QB/ND St at the FCS title game
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Check, check.
January 9th:
User ActionsFollowing
Mike MayockVerified accountβ@MikeMayock
Mike Mayock Retweeted Harry Brenner
I'm saying he's in the conversation to be the 1st qb taken...if he checks all the intangible boxes- watch out !
Mike MayockVerified account β@MikeMayock 28 Nov 2015Mike Mayock@MikeMayockJust watched 2 tapes of Carson Wentz...NDSU QB...big kid can sling it !
Senior Bowl week important for him !Just watched 2 tapes of Carson Wentz...NDSU QB...big kid can sling it ! Senior Bowl week important for him !
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The difference with Luck was he played for one of the top teams in the country, against some of the best competition in the country. Also, he was the #1 rated QB for his final 2yrs, not just from a weekend in shorts and a tank top......... Big, big difference between the two. Not even close.
I'm not saying he won't be the Browns savior, hopefully he will, but he is a reach, especially at 2.
Just because you didn't know who the guy was until last weekend doesn't mean the rest of us didn't.
Just because you didn't know who the guy was until last weekend doesn't mean the rest of us didn't.
That's fine, as I don't follow every small town, small college prospect. Hopefully people like yourself are correct, and if Hue does in fact take him at 2, then that will be all the confirmation that I need.
Gotta go ride my mtn bike 18 miles........................
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