Benjamin to sign.....Mack out then in ?
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You didn't need to write a novel Tom. I'd like to keep Benjamin too, FWIW. ......I pay Travis the lower end of what a #2 WR is making in the NFL.
Since he oped for FA, he (or his agent) obviously think he's worth more than what the Browns were offering.
Im with you Hoorta....I dont really see anybody here saying we should get rid of Benji....at all....
Though I see a ton of people saying not to overpay in order to keep him...and, by definition, overpaying is overpaying....
I cant believe the Browns plan to use Benji as their #1, so he's gonna play #2 or slot....and we are already contractually committed to Hartline and Hawkins in those roles.....plus we have Gabriel, who is pretty comparable to Benji stat wise.....so, does a team who has WAY overpaid in the past for marginal talent do it again?....especially for a second tier role that already has 3 other comparable players?....
So....yeah....lets keep him if he's willing to play for fair value.....and if he thinks he's worth All pro money, then let him go get it elsewhere....
I said this.....
So....yeah....lets keep him if he's willing to play for fair value.....and if he thinks he's worth All pro money, then let him go get it elsewhere....
Then I said this.....
So....again.....Im assuming YOU want to pay him pro bowl money, because you keep disputing our comments which say KEEP HIM, but DONT OVERPAY.....(I used BIG letters this time, so you dont miss the point)
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Hello???....do you not read any of the words anyone else writes?
I said ....1) no one knows what he's asking.......2) we should sign him, but not pay Pro Bowl money......
Did I not use cut and paste of the spins out of context to Pro Bowl $? Look who's talking - do you read? The flow of discussion brought you from a need to say I find it hard to believe the Browns will plan to use Benji as their #1 WR to a need to clarify we should sign Benjamin but not give him Pro Bowl money? Sounds like someone needs to take his own advice about reading what has actually been written. I've said it more than once: if we are this close to signing him let's remove the last minute nitpick and get it done. I've never said let's get ridiculous and empty the cap on him so you didn't need bring up sensationalize it to Pro Bowl $ to make your point seem stronger than it has been. I can't help it if you only saw a Taylor Gabriel equivalent to Benjamin I captured in the cut and paste.
And let's not slap a tuxedo on a sweaty tank top with pretending Schwartz has given us 4 flawless years of football without growing pains or consistency concerns. He started to rally in 2014 when he returned to a zone blocking scheme similar to the one he played in at Cal before giving us the best football of his career in 2015. Not all that much different to the rise of Benjamin except there's been times early on Benjamin looked like he could have been a Pro Bowl return man while he was a work in progress at WR. In 2015, he was pretty good at both and performed better than any other WR on the roster. It's not his fault we've committed absurd money to guys like Hartline, Hawkins and Bowe.
Back to where I was about a team concerned with program continuity through the draft - we can lose all 3 draftees coming off/into their best football: Mack, Schwartz and Benjamin. Like all draft picks/investments you nourish and feed - the time they're ready to give you a return on your patience invested is when they're ready to play their best football. If we let these guys go - we've trained them up for somebody else to tap their best football while the guys people should be asking if they're worth what we're paying them are: Hartline, Bowe and Hawkins.
You don't have to remind me 1 more time who inventoried popular opinion in this thread.
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Hello???....do you not read any of the words anyone else writes?
I said ....1) no one knows what he's asking.......2) we should sign him, but not pay Pro Bowl money......
Did I not use cut and paste of the spins out of context to Pro Bowl $? Look who's talking - do you read? The flow of discussion brought you from a need to say I find it hard to believe the Browns will plan to use Benji as their #1 WR to a need to clarify we should sign Benjamin but not give him Pro Bowl money? Sounds like someone needs to take his own advice about reading what has actually been written. I've said it more than once: if we are this close to signing him let's remove the last minute nitpick and get it done. I've never said let's get ridiculous and empty the cap on him so you didn't need bring up sensationalize it to Pro Bowl $ to make your point seem stronger than it has been. I can't help it if you only saw a Taylor Gabriel equivalent to Benjamin I captured in the cut and paste.
And let's not slap a tuxedo on a sweaty tank top with pretending Schwartz has given us 4 flawless years of football without growing pains or consistency concerns. He started to rally in 2014 when he returned to a zone blocking scheme similar to the one he played in at Cal before giving us the best football of his career in 2015. Not all that much different to the rise of Benjamin except there's been times early on Benjamin looked like he could have been a Pro Bowl return man while he was a work in progress at WR. In 2015, he was pretty good at both and performed better than any other WR on the roster. It's not his fault we've committed absurd money to guys like Hartline, Hawkins and Bowe.
Back to where I was about a team concerned with program continuity through the draft - we can lose all 3 draftees coming off/into their best football: Mack, Schwartz and Benjamin. Like all draft picks/investments you nourish and feed - the time they're ready to give you a return on your patience invested is when they're ready to play their best football. If we let these guys go - we've trained them up for somebody else to tap their best football while the guys people should be asking if they're worth what we're paying them are: Hartline, Bowe and Hawkins.
You don't have to remind me 1 more time who inventoried popular opinion in this thread.
Did I not use cut and paste of the spins out of context to Pro Bowl $? Look who's talking - do you read? The flow of discussion brought you to a need to clarify we should sign Benjamin but not give him Pro Bowl money? Sounds like someone needs to take his own advice about reading what has actually been written. I've said it more than once: if we are this close to signing him let's remove the last minute nitpick and get it done. I've never said let's get ridiculous and empty the cap on him so you didn't need bring up sensationalize it to Pro Bowl $ to make your point seem stronger than it has been. I can't help it if you only saw a Taylor Gabriel equivalent to Benjamin I captured in the cut and paste.
I guess I just dont understand what you're saying then.....when we repeatedly say "sign him"....but "dont overpay".....then you respond with long diatribes arguing the point...
So....I can only assume you want to over pay....otherwise, why keep debating it?
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Did I not use cut and paste of the spins out of context to Pro Bowl $? Look who's talking - do you read? The flow of discussion brought you to a need to clarify we should sign Benjamin but not give him Pro Bowl money? Sounds like someone needs to take his own advice about reading what has actually been written. I've said it more than once: if we are this close to signing him let's remove the last minute nitpick and get it done. I've never said let's get ridiculous and empty the cap on him so you didn't need bring up sensationalize it to Pro Bowl $ to make your point seem stronger than it has been. I can't help it if you only saw a Taylor Gabriel equivalent to Benjamin I captured in the cut and paste.
I guess I just dont understand what you're saying then.....when we repeatedly say "sign him"....but "dont overpay".....then you respond with long diatribes arguing the point...
So....I can only assume you want to over pay....otherwise, why keep debating it?
I guess I just dont understand what you're saying then.....when we repeatedly say "sign him"....but "dont overpay".....then you respond with long diatribes arguing the point...
So....I can only assume you want to over pay....otherwise, why keep debating it?
How about - I'd like us to re-sign him too Flugel unless you've noticed me saying - hey, let's drain our cap on him. Did I? Let's pay him Pro Bowl $. Did I? Let's pay him what Pittsburgh pays Antonio Brown or what Cincy pays AJ Green or Atlanta pays Julio Jones or Dallas is paying Dez Bryant. Did I? And what was wrong with me pointing out what we're wasting on free agent WRs with only part time, limited or diminished skills when Benjamin offers us a role as a dangerous return man plus where he elevated his game to as a WR in spite of all the changes in QBs, OCs, playbooks throughout his brief tenure here? Who really knows what he can be in a full time role if we put something decent on the other side of formation, which is why I've refrained from racing to a conclusion of whether he's just a slot or # 2 WR at best. The results in 2015 here without anything to brag about on the other side of formation says he was our #1 WR overall, which assures me he could be a really good #2 WR here if we did have a reliable #1. You know my frustration with this WR Corps.
You were lecturing me on things that didn't require it if you read where I was coming from since I joined the flow of discussion. I always give you way more respect than that so yeah I'm a little disappointed with your need to grandstand me. You're better than that and you know it. We've never struggled with the golden rule my man so why start now?
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
I guess I just dont understand what you're saying then.....when we repeatedly say "sign him"....but "dont overpay".....then you respond with long diatribes arguing the point...
So....I can only assume you want to over pay....otherwise, why keep debating it?
How about - I'd like us to re-sign him too Flugel unless you've noticed me saying - hey, let's drain our cap on him. Did I? Let's pay him Pro Bowl $. Did I? Let's pay him what Pittsburgh pays Antonio Brown or what Cincy pays AJ Green or Atlanta pays Julio Jones or Dallas is paying Dez Bryant. Did I? And what was wrong with me pointing out what we're wasting on free agent WRs with only part time, limited or diminished skills when Benjamin offers us a role as a dangerous return man plus where he elevated his game to as a WR in spite of all the changes in QBs, OCs, playbooks throughout his brief tenure here? Who really knows what he can be in a full time role if we put something decent on the other side of formation, which is why I've refrained from racing to a conclusion of whether he's just a slot or # 2 WR at best. The results in 2015 here without anything to brag about on the other side of formation says he was our #1 WR overall, which assures me he could be a really good #2 WR here if we did have a reliable #1. You know my frustration with this WR Corps.
You were lecturing me on things that didn't require it if you read where I was coming from since I joined the flow of discussion. I always give you way more respect than that so yeah I'm a little disappointed with your need to grandstand me. You're better than that and you know it. We've never struggled with the golden rule my man so why start now?
How about - I'd like us to re-sign him too
Um...that IS what I said.....I never responded to you or lectured you on anything until you quoted my comment to Hoorta and then started in, as if you had issues with what I said........simple....just look at the top of the page to refresh your memory
I said....resign him....and dont over pay......then YOU quoted ME and started in......
So, while you think I have issues with your statements, look back and see who quoted who and who debated the others comments....
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I guess I just dont understand what you're saying then.....when we repeatedly say "sign him"....but "dont overpay".....then you respond with long diatribes arguing the point...
So....I can only assume you want to over pay....otherwise, why keep debating it?
How about - I'd like us to re-sign him too Flugel unless you've noticed me saying - hey, let's drain our cap on him. Did I? Let's pay him Pro Bowl $. Did I? Let's pay him what Pittsburgh pays Antonio Brown or what Cincy pays AJ Green or Atlanta pays Julio Jones or Dallas is paying Dez Bryant. Did I? And what was wrong with me pointing out what we're wasting on free agent WRs with only part time, limited or diminished skills when Benjamin offers us a role as a dangerous return man plus where he elevated his game to as a WR in spite of all the changes in QBs, OCs, playbooks throughout his brief tenure here? Who really knows what he can be in a full time role if we put something decent on the other side of formation, which is why I've refrained from racing to a conclusion of whether he's just a slot or # 2 WR at best. The results in 2015 here without anything to brag about on the other side of formation says he was our #1 WR overall, which assures me he could be a really good #2 WR here if we did have a reliable #1. You know my frustration with this WR Corps.
You were lecturing me on things that didn't require it if you read where I was coming from since I joined the flow of discussion. I always give you way more respect than that so yeah I'm a little disappointed with your need to grandstand me. You're better than that and you know it. We've never struggled with the golden rule my man so why start now?
And what was wrong with me pointing out what we're wasting on free agent WRs
Who really knows what he can be in a full time role if we put something decent on the other side of formation, which is why I've refrained from racing to a conclusion of whether he's just a slot or # 2 WR at best. The results in 2015 here without anything to brag about on the other side of formation says he was our #1 WR overall, which assures me he could be a really good #2 WR here if we did have a reliable #1. You know my frustration with this WR Corps.
You were lecturing me on things that didn't require it if you read where I was coming from since I joined the flow of discussion. I always give you way more respect than that so yeah I'm a little disappointed with your need to grandstand me. You're better than that and you know it. We've never struggled with the golden rule my man so why start now?
No problem with you mentioning the overpaid receivers.....its EXACTLY what I said the post before, yet you apparently didnt see that....I only said lets not repeat that same mistake.....we can both agree the team has blown it by overpaying, correct???
And grandstanding you?....please.....nor am I lecturing you.....again, Im just responding to your responses to MY opinion, which apparently Im not permitted to have?....until you quoted me and started in(grand standing me? perhaps?)
we were not even in a discussion until you took issue with my comment to hoorta.........so, in reality, all YOU had to say was I agree we shouldnt overpay....which was my one and only point all along
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And what was wrong with me pointing out what we're wasting on free agent WRs
Who really knows what he can be in a full time role if we put something decent on the other side of formation, which is why I've refrained from racing to a conclusion of whether he's just a slot or # 2 WR at best. The results in 2015 here without anything to brag about on the other side of formation says he was our #1 WR overall, which assures me he could be a really good #2 WR here if we did have a reliable #1. You know my frustration with this WR Corps.
You were lecturing me on things that didn't require it if you read where I was coming from since I joined the flow of discussion. I always give you way more respect than that so yeah I'm a little disappointed with your need to grandstand me. You're better than that and you know it. We've never struggled with the golden rule my man so why start now?
No problem with you mentioning the overpaid receivers.....its EXACTLY what I said the post before, yet you apparently didnt see that....I only said lets not repeat that same mistake.....we can both agree the team has blown it by overpaying, correct???
And grandstanding you?....please.....nor am I lecturing you.....again, Im just responding to your responses to MY opinion, which apparently Im not permitted to have?....until you quoted me and started in(grand standing me? perhaps?)
we were not even in a discussion until you took issue with my comment to hoorta.........so, in reality, all YOU had to say was I agree we shouldnt overpay....which was my one and only point all along
No problem with you mentioning the overpaid receivers.....its EXACTLY what I said the post before, yet you apparently didnt see that....I only said lets not repeat that same mistake.....we can both agree the team has blown it by overpaying, correct???
And grandstanding you?....please.....nor am I lecturing you.....again, Im just responding to your responses to MY opinion, which apparently Im not permitted to have?....until you quoted me and started in(grand standing me? perhaps?)
we were not even in a discussion until you took issue with my comment to hoorta.........so, in reality, all YOU had to say was I agree we shouldnt overpay....which was my one and only point all along
Okay, I see what you're saying. My bad Mud!
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Will Fuller would be great, except I think he's gone in the first round.
Although, if you like Marvin Jones...
check out Michael Thomas.... of Southern Mississippi.
Wasn't invited to the combine....
He could..be there in the third round. He's been compared to Jones.
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Falcons to meet Mack ...very interested in him
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Mary Kay just tweeted. . .
#browns have expressed interest in #jaguars FA center Stefen Wisniewski, league source says. Mack poised to leave.
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Mary Kay just tweeted. . .
#browns have expressed interest in #jaguars FA center Stefen Wisniewski, league source says. Mack poised to leave.
Mary Kay just tweeted. . .
#browns have expressed interest in #jaguars FA center Stefen Wisniewski, league source says. Mack poised to leave.
I am not of the opinion that that is not much of a downgrade, if at all.
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Mary Kay just tweeted. . .
#browns have expressed interest in #jaguars FA center Stefen Wisniewski, league source says. Mack poised to leave.
I am not of the opinion that that is not much of a downgrade, if at all.
I am not of the opinion that that is much of a downgrade, if at all.
I have no opinion on Wisniewski, but I would like to hear Tour's 2 pennies on this guy.
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I believe Erving was plan "B".well, they have to have a plan "B"....
no big deal.
We're now on plan "C" or possibly beyond that.
Two things that will define you: Your determination when you have nothing. Your attitude when you have everything. - Mike McCartney -
Mary Kay just tweeted. . .
#browns have expressed interest in #jaguars FA center Stefen Wisniewski, league source says. Mack poised to leave.
I am not of the opinion that that is not much of a downgrade, if at all.
I am not of the opinion that that is much of a downgrade, if at all.
Bingo. I don't have a problem with that trade-off in the slightest.
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Wisiewski is a great option.....plus he plays guard too....they shoulda signed him LAST year, instead of drafting Irving
Wisiewski is a great option.....plus he plays guard too....they shoulda signed him LAST year, instead of drafting Irving
I have no opinion on Wisniewski, but I would like to hear Tour's OR Mud's 2 pennies on this guy.
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Tour is much better suited to give you technical particulars.....I can tell you he was a 2nd round pick by the Raiders, when HUE was their coach.....his dad and uncle were both NFL players, so he has good genes.....was an academic all american 3 years in school, so he's smart.....has been a starter every year in the league....1 as a guard and 4 as a center.....and, though not as good as Mack, is a strong run blocker and more than "good enough" to step right in and get er done....(and for a lot less than 10m)(and probably wants to be here more than Mack)(just a hunch)
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