"Not At All" Hard to Leave Cleveland (Benjamin)

Flugel

@calfoxwc said:

Nope....but there is a little something call tact and knowing when and how to use it is a big part of being successful in business and in life....and its a true skill to be tactful and classy.....so there are plenty of ways to say you're happy to be in SD and excited about new opportunities, while still expressing positive thoughts about the city, team and teammates you just left....Mudfly

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Exactly, Mud !

I threw off on him for fun, because by ommission, he was bashing the fans, and the city, and a new regime.

I'm like "it isn't tough leaving us? well don't let the door hit ya on yer way out..."

His reply was low class, wasn't necessary. What did the fans ever do to warrant a "goodbye you're easy to leave

because you suck" kind of statement. Just not smart, even if it was just a mistake. We cheered him, appreciated him

on the field like crazy. Not impressed with it, that's all. I hope he does well with the Jags, unless they play the Browns,

and I hope he gets addicted to donuts and gains 40 lbs.

LOL! I got your threw off on him right here. This isn't one of your better posts Cal I thought Mud articulated it extremely well about the high road. I wish Benjamin handled that better.

You went from saying the reply was low class to role modeling the style you're protesting. If I was the WR not wired to be a #1 only seen by many as just a #2 or #3 WR at best with very good return skills noticing that Bowe was the WR guaranteed 9 million $ in 2015 and whatever FA $ Hawk has robbed our cap with during tenure here while Josh Spiccoli was serving his 6th football suspension (counting the one that wasn't drug related in 2014 when Josh was failing to deliver on his we'll see the best version of him yet promises hitting the toilet paper).

Travis had 4 different OCs in 4 years with 3 different Head Coaches, countless QBs and 1 major reconstruction to hurdle to arrive at what we saw from him in 2015. I'm sure there were sour grapes from the only guy that stepped up to be our #1 WR in 2015 on top of what he added in the return game. If he knows he's NOT #1 WR material and he had the best season of anyone in our entire WR Corps facing the best corner of our opponents - he prolly wanted to be rewarded or at least acknowledged for what he gave us in 2 different roles playing his best football at 26 years of age. He should have communicated his disappointment to the appropriate people inclusive of his agent rather than choosing passive aggressive elsewhere. He feels he wasn't the guy we had to read about going way over the speed limit when there was a bag of marijuana in the car that allegedly/conveniently belonged to a guy he shouldn't have been hanging around with in between suspensions for dirty urine.

And do you really think Manziel was classy by saying nice things about Cleveland and fans while his actions never stopped giving us 2 middle fingers?

Flugel

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:
I guess I failed to see his elite return performance. Must have missed those games.

Thanks a lot Couch! LOL! You had my back like Brutus and Cassius had Julius Caesar's.

Okay, he's just a good scoring weapon in the return game before the knee injury and 2 years post op. I still remember the last time we beat Buffalo in a night game Weeden took over for the injured Hoyer. if it wasn't for TJ Ward's pick 6 and Benjamin's return for a TD we prolly don't win that defensive battle of backup QBs. That said, if he didn't score 3 TDs vrs the TN Titans (2 via pass and 1 via return) - we'd be owning the first pick of the draft in 2016.

Mudfly

@flugel said:

Thanks a lot Couch! LOL! You had my back like Brutus and Cassius had Julius Caesar's.

That said, if he didn't score 3 TDs vrs the TN Titans (2 via pass and 1 via return) - we'd be owning the first pick of the draft in 2016.

And he would have had only 2 for the whole season....

Flugel

@mudfly said:
And he would have had only 2 for the whole season....

I'm okay with him going now believe it or not. You guys have made some good points about him here and there.

Where I was coming from prior to this is - we just haven't had too many recent examples of 4th round picks on offense playing their best football through 4 OC changes in 4 years especially when we've only been able to get our #1 WR active in 5 of our last 32 games. Let's just say I understand his sour grapes but it's not the fault of the people he aimed his passive aggressive at. Nobody in our current front office would have been dumb enough to throw the absurd cake Farmer threw at Bowe.

I didn't like losing Schwartz any more than I liked losing Benji. The few we got right in the draft - would have been nice to keep around when they're playing their best football at 26-27 years of age. I didn't mind losing Mack as much with an off season to address that because of his age. He's best in a zbs that he got his first comfort zone with at Cal so re-uniting with Shanny should serve him well.

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@flugel said:

Thanks a lot Couch! LOL! You had my back like Brutus and Cassius had Julius Caesar's.

Okay, he's just a good scoring weapon in the return game before the knee injury and 2 years post op. I still remember the last time we beat Buffalo in a night game Weeden took over for the injured Hoyer. if it wasn't for TJ Ward's pick 6 and Benjamin's return for a TD we prolly don't win that defensive battle of backup QBs. That said, if he didn't score 3 TDs vrs the TN Titans (2 via pass and 1 via return) - we'd be owning the first pick of the draft in 2016.

Ha, I just call em like I see em. He had potential to be a great returner, but a Cribbs he wasn't.

Benjamin is a good utility weapon but he doesn't really fit in anywhere. He's not a #1, he's not a #2, he's not strictly a return man....and the money he wanted didn't reflect his production.

Would have been nice to keep him, but not at the money he wanted. Then again, it's not like we used that money for anything else...

gumby73

Of all the FA we lost, the only team that plays us in Cleveland? San Diego. Boy that presser, just got fun.

Flugel

@mudfly said:
And he would have had only 2 for the whole season....

Nope 1 of those was a punt return. He would have had 3 more receiving TDs to reach his WR Corps leading 5. So he led our WR Corps in TD receptions and yards per catch for 2 straight years and led us in receptions and yardage in 2015.

Someone had to do it since our higher paid free agents (Hartline, Bowe, and Hawkins combined for 2 TD receptions in 2015). I don't mind getting rid of Benjamin but of all the WRs that were here in 2015 - he was the least of all evils by a country mile.

calfoxwc

And do you really think Manziel was classy by saying nice things about Cleveland and fans while his actions never stopped giving us 2 middle fingers? Mr. Flugels

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No, no, no. lol.

Manziel had no cred with his actions, his words were just probly written for him by his publicist. But truthfully, I admired

how Benjamin played - I just wish he had said what he should have said - "it's easy to leave the situation - I want to win,

and we had all those changes..." or something. But he left it open, which includes, by ommision, all of us fans.

Now, if he didn't mean to do that, then I will email him and retract the joking about him in response...and I'll sign it

"Canton Mike"

sisky fringo

for the record fwiw i don't believe in voodoo, or Hanukkah.

Benjamin coulda easily been like, "there will always be fond memories from Cleveland that I will take with me, but I'm ready to start a new chapter"...or ANYTHING besides how he put it.

he knew what he was saying, and he was well aware he may be viewed as a jerk and did not care. we're in his rearview mirror, and now he's in mine.

until that comment i had planned on casually following his career in SD. call me fickle.

miktoxic

@canton-mike said:

I'll not join in on the bad mouthing of Benjamin. The kid played hard & well here for a very disjointed coaching staff & FO. Of course it wasn't hard for him to leave.

He's gone, I wish him well, & it's time for us to move on by showing some class.

Mike

but you hate kaep who did the same for his team and wants out?

kaep did more for SF than benji ever did for cleveland.

RoyceRolls

I don't mind Benjamin's comments but I also don't lament him leaving. He's not nearly consistent enough to be worth what he's being paid. after his crazy start the NFL was like "oh, we need to pay attention to that guy" and the rest of his season was pretty boring.

jcam222

@mudfly said:

Nope....but there is a little something call tact and knowing when and how to use it is a big part of being successful in business and in life....and its a true skill to be tactful and classy.....so there are plenty of ways to say you're happy to be in SD and excited about new opportunities, while still expressing positive thoughts about the city, team and teammates you just left....

That 'worst franchise" is the one that drafted him....gave him his opportunity .....and the one that was bad enough that he finally got a chance to play #1 receiver for a season....which is the whole reason he even got a deal in SD......cause for 3 years prior, even with our crapola receivers, he wasnt good enough to start or play....so, maybe if he landed in another city, with a better team, he'd still be riding the bench and sure as hell wouldnt have a $6m contract....guaranteed

Excellent post

nickers

Benji can go fuck himself... He's NOT one of us anymore...

Flugel

@sisky-fringo said:

for the record fwiw i don't believe in voodoo, or Hanukkah.

Benjamin coulda easily been like, "there will always be fond memories from Cleveland that I will take with me, but I'm ready to start a new chapter"...or ANYTHING besides how he put it.

he knew what he was saying, and he was well aware he may be viewed as a jerk and did not care. we're in his rearview mirror, and now he's in mine.

until that comment i had planned on casually following his career in SD. call me fickle.

It sounded to me like he wanted to be paid by the team he blew his knee out for and came back 1 year later to lead our WR Corps with 17.4 yards per catch and TD receptions in 2014 (via part time duty) and then lead the WR Corps in receptions, first downs, TDs, ypc, and yards in 2015 at a 4th round salary while WRs like Bowe, Hartline, and Hawkins (all completely worthless in 2015) made all the money in the WR Corps. So which guy gets told he's not worth keeping? Let's not pretend if we were in his shoes watching who's getting the tenure around here - we wouldn't feel just as frustrated or unappreciated.

All I keep reading is -"he's only a #2 WR or a #3 WR at best." That's fine. The debate starts at - then why was he easily our #1 WR in 2015? We were paying generous FA $ for guys to handle all that stuff but couldn't. The only guy from our 2015 WR Corps advertising best football ahead was Benjamin. The same guy making the least money so he's the bad guy in here. When Dwayne Bowe leaves here complimenting Cleveland for their generosity and the fan base for their loyalty - he'll be a terrific guy. And don't forget, Manziel said the fans are great...

I'm glad nobody was worried about how much money Bowe, Hawkins and Harline made here.

gftChris

Flugel - I'm sure nobody would contradict you on Benjamin being better than Bowe and Hartline, and probably Hawkins. Yes, he was easily our best wide receiver this year, but that wasn't against stiff competition, and I doubt there'd be too many complaints from the coaches if none of those guys were back next year.

But that doesn't mean we should roll out a blank cheque, and just give him whatever he wants - the leading receiver on a 3-13 is nothing to shout about in itself. He didn't crack a thousand yards, didn't make the pro bowl, and only had one touchdown in games 5-through-16. I would like to have seen him back, sure, but not at any cost, and he ended up getting paid more by another team. It happens, we can pick up a replacement, or lean more on Hawkins (who was our leading receiver in 2014 with about 850 while benjamin got 300).

TexasAg1969

Hartline when not injured was more consistently open than anyone except Barny. I would not lump him in with the rest of those unproductive receivers.

Mudfly

Not to keep harping on the Benji thing, but lets do an "honest" evaluation of what Benji and those others have done to earn their pay.....

@flugel said:

It sounded to me like he wanted to be paid by the team he blew his knee out for and came back 1 year later to lead our WR Corps with 17.4 yards per catch and TD receptions in 2014 (via part time duty)

Benji "led the team in TD's" with 3.....three Td's does not even make a blip on the stats chart for an NFL WR......its an indictment on how poor our offense was, as opposed to how great Benji was.....and he played 16 games, so not really part time, was it?.....and if he didnt start enough to be full time, why was that?.....perhaps he wasnt good enough to beat out udfa Gabriel and Hawkins?

and then lead the WR Corps in receptions, first downs, TDs, ypc, and yards in 2015 at a 4th round salary while WRs like Bowe, Hartline, and Hawkins (all completely worthless in 2015) made all the money in the WR Corps.

I think we can all agree that Bowe was a bust, though he was signed at a higher amount because he did have a 10 year history of production. Hartline and Hawkins both suffered injuries and missed plenty of games, which opened things up for Benji to get more starts and WAY more targets. The reason he was on a fourth round salary is because he was a fourth round pick.....and up until 2015, he played like it(or worse). Nothing he did PRIOR to 2015 indicated he was worth a penny more and, as we both know, many people didnt even have him making the team in 2015. So, his production was not expected, it was a surprise. Hartline and Hawkins(and Bowe) all earned their stripes and the salaries they were being paid, so to say Benji shold have been paid equal or more would be unfair to those guys and their past production.

In fact, Hawk led the team the year before, so by that standard, should he not have a big contract too? Hart and Bowe both have multiple 1000 yard seasons, which Benji has never done, so should they be paid less?.....because, right now, they are.....

So which guy gets told he's not worth keeping?

The only guy that was negotiating and the only guy who wanted $6 million a year. Both Hawkins and Hartline have produced more, for a longer time, yet they signed for 1/2 of what Benji was asking.....

Let's not pretend if we were in his shoes watching who's getting the tenure around here - we wouldn't feel just as frustrated or unappreciated.

Again....the other guys were already signed...of course they are staying. It was Benji who had the option to leave and he took it. Word is that the Browns offered him $4mil, so that would have paid him more than both Hart and Hawk.....both of whom have a stronger & longer history of production

All I keep reading is -"he's only a #2 WR or a #3 WR at best." That's fine. The debate starts at - then why was he easily our #1 WR in 2015?

1) He's the one who didnt get hurt, and when he did in 2013, his production hit rock bottom for 2 seasons......2) He had the most targets......and, he was still less productive than our TE in yards, catches and TD's//////who wasnt making much dough either

And Id point out that Barnidge out played Benji and signed a new contract right away.....for way less than Benji did....and Benji could have done just the same way way back and had the same love and acceptance that Barny is getting now......

We were paying generous FA $ for guys to handle all that stuff but couldn't. The only guy from our 2015 WR Corps advertising best football ahead was Benjamin.

Both Hawk and Hart are making modest amounts and Benji WOULD HAVE been the highest paid WR on the team had he signed....(less Bowe, if he stays)

I'm glad nobody was worried about how much money Bowe, Hawkins and Harline made here.

Um...EVERYBODY has been concerned about the Bowe contract all along....where have you been?????......Hart and Hawk both signed for reasonable money....Benji didnt....

TexasAg1969

Very well stated Mud.

Mudfly

@texasag1969 said:
Very well stated Mud.

Thank you....

And, I forgot to add that I keep hearing we should keep Benji because he was homegrown talent, as if "getting drafted" deserves some type of reward. I wonder if he could have picked where he went, if he would have picked Cleveland......because both Hartline and Hawkins did just that......and for less money too

gftChris

@mudfly said:

Thank you....

And, I forgot to add that I keep hearing we should keep Benji because he was homegrown talent, as if "getting drafted" deserves some type of reward. I wonder if he could have picked where he went, if he would have picked Cleveland......because both Hartline and Hawkins did just that......and for less money too

Getting drafted doesn't deserve a reward, but a good strategy for continued success is to keep players that have performed well for you, that you know and know your system, rather than take what is always a gamble on players from other teams that have no such history.

Of course, you need a stable system for that logic to apply, so here's hoping we can at least get that.