Grading Mark Sanchez
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I watched the first two clips all the way through and he sure seems to have made his living throwing a lot of short stuff, which doesn't bother me, but this would be more Quinn-like. I think he throws shorter than Quinn did at ND, but gets a lot of YAC to make up for it.
Less maturity and less experience. Add that Quinn has a reasonable contract, two years of NFL exposure, and is ready for a Daboll offense and I can't see how Sanchez is a clear upgrade.
He's crafty and moves well. I'll admit to a feeling he'll work out in the NFL. I'm just not sure any of the current evidence says he's a slam dunk over Quinn.
In order for us to pay him boo-koo bucks, and skip on Quinn altogether, he should be a slam dunk.
Here's what Scout has to say:
In the case of Brady Quinn, no quarterback in recent memory is better prepared to succeed. He had four years of college and two years of sitting in the pro game. He was tutored by Charlie Weis...
Like many here, I really feel Quinn is ready to start, and will be the Browns starting QB to start the '09 season.
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Thanks.....I prefer grading that is numerical such as the ones above on a standard 8 point scale..(there are other scales, but they usually weigh things about the same)
Those allow a comparison to players from previous years. Star ratings and value boards tend to rate people inside that class but many times don't rate people to a NFL standard.
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Compares To: TRENT EDWARDS, Buffalo -- Sanchez, just beginning to come into his own after he was groomed in a pro-style offense since his prep days, might lack the game experience or incredible arm strength of Matthew Stafford, he does show a lot of moxie on the field, along with good patience and excellent timing and touch. He needs to be in a strong vertical attack, as he's best throwing downfield and does a great job of anticipating his receivers before they come out of their breaks.
Forgive me if I'm wrong here, but don't I remember Edwards and Quinn compared and Quinn coming out on top of the two?
I thought I recalled Shep saying something about the two being practically identical but Quinn having the bigger arm.
If that's the case and it's true, then Sanchez would be a step backwards for us.
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Compares To: TRENT EDWARDS, Buffalo -- Sanchez, just beginning to come into his own after he was groomed in a pro-style offense since his prep days, might lack the game experience or incredible arm strength of Matthew Stafford, he does show a lot of moxie on the field, along with good patience and excellent timing and touch. He needs to be in a strong vertical attack, as he's best throwing downfield and does a great job of anticipating his receivers before they come out of their breaks.
Forgive me if I'm wrong here, but don't I remember Edwards and Quinn compared and Quinn coming out on top of the two?
I thought I recalled Shep saying something about the two being practically identical but Quinn having the bigger arm.
If that's the case and it's true, then Sanchez would be a step backwards for us.
Forgive me if I'm wrong here, but don't I remember Edwards and Quinn compared and Quinn coming out on top of the two?
I thought I recalled Shep saying something about the two being practically identical but Quinn having the bigger arm.
If that's the case and it's true, then Sanchez would be a step backwards for us.
A voice of reason would say......................Sanchez is a smokescreen. With all the needs of the Browns could you really see them drafting Sanchez. Now if he is Quinn with a little weaker arm then he's at least a year away from starting at QB. After grooming Quinn on the finer points of the NFL, the speed of the NFL game and reading NFL defenses I agree we would be taking a step backwards. Plus, having a system installed that he's familiar with and plays to his strengths is a positive.
A personal workout with Sanchez is nothing more then having one with Maclin, Maualuga, that TE (whatever his name is), Orakpo, Curry and Smith. Some are serious and some are as stated above, smokescreens.
Sanchez's visit very well may be a smokescreen but also a just in case, which is doubtful, but just in case they are made a deal they can't refuse. I guess it is called covering all your bases and making other teams scratch their heads.
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@shepwrite said:
BTW, Edwards was often called "a poor man's Brady Quinn." Similar guys, throwers, athletes, etc. Difference was that Quinn put up huge numbers and Edwards played on a bad team and had nagging injuries.Not a stretch at all to call Quinn, Edwards, and Sanchez similar.
I'll agree with that and say because of game experience Edwards is ahead of Quinn and Quinn is a year ahead of Sanchez.
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mz. said:
Seems like a less-intelligent and charasmatic yet slightly more accurate Brady Quinn. I can't for the life of me see why Mangini would prefer Sanchez over Quinn, other than marginally at best.Don't know if Brady's actually smarter, though it sounds like he works harder in the film room.
As for charisma/leadership ability, I'm not sure Quinn's got a clear advantage. I was impressed when Sanchez took hit after cheap hit against UCLA, then rushed over to stop one of his teammates from getting into an altercation. He hasn't been tested as much as Quinn, but he's shown some good qualities.
@oconrecon said:
He's crafty and moves well. I'll admit to a feeling he'll work out in the NFL. I'm just not sure any of the current evidence says he's a slam dunk over Quinn.Agreed about it not being a slam dunk, but I also think Sanchez will be a successful NFL QB. Because of that, it really depends on what you think of Quinn.
A case could be made that Mangini would still be coaching the Jets if the QB position had been handled better. I'm sure Mangini's aware of that: if he harbors any doubts about Quinn, he might be willing to pull the trigger on a guy he thinks is more of a sure thing.
@ytownbrownsbacker said:
Sanchez is a smokescreen. With all the needs of the Browns could you really see them drafting Sanchez.It very well could be a smokescreen. But even if they're bringing him in just to scare a team into trading up, Mangini's going to meet with him face to face & have him work the board. It's not crazy to think that Mangini could end up falling in love.
@shepwrite said:
Not a stretch at all to call Quinn, Edwards, and Sanchez similar.Not at all. One similarity between Quinn and Sanchez is that they both make a few throws a game that leave you scratching your head. However, Quinn's are usually because his accuracy goes haywire; with Sanchez, it's because he temporarily loses his good field vision.
Both are legitimate issues, but I think coaches would be more concerned about Quinn's. You can help a smart, inexperienced guy like Sanchez minimize his mistakes, but it's hard to fix a guy's accuracy issues. You can tinker with his mechanics, but you may just end up making things worse.
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If I were drafting him I'd want to be in the position where I don't have to hurry to make him a starter. Mostly due to his lack of playing time in College. Someone like Seattle who can take their time with him, although #4 is just too high I think.
I know it's not going to happen. Someone like the 49ers, Jets or Tampa will probably take him and possibly play him in a hurry. I'd rather give kid time to sit and learn and not rush him into a starting role. The one thing we hear all the time is the amazing difference in speed between college and the NFL. I want to give my QB time to adapt to this.
That's another reason I'm really excited about Quinn's chances of being successful. He's sat and watched and matured and is certainly in a lot better shape to take the reigns than he was two years ago.
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@shepwrite said:
Good stuff. Alo. As an SC fan, I can tell you Sanchez is a fiery leader type and his team LOVES him. Very smart, got a 29 on the Wonderlic, mastered a complex offense, etc., all like Quinn. They're just very similar. I do think Sanchez is more consistently accurate, but I also think Quinn doesn't "lose the strike zone" as often as people think. You throw picks and complete a lower percentage if that's the case... not 69/14 and 63 percent under Weis.They both have plenty of arm, like Manning and Brady. Not bazookas, but NFL arms.
I would see it as about a wash if not for Quinn's experience in Daboll's offense. Which is why I'd give Quinn the full season and just stop overthinking the whole matter.
Bingo. I never really understood this perceived accuracy problem. Sure he has (rather infrequent) times where he "loses the strike zone," but not any more so than the vast majority of starting QB's in the NFL.
It's pretty simple. If he had legitimate accuracy problems, he wouldn't have put up the sick (not just really good) numbers that he did.
EDIT: And just to put it in perspective...the scouts went ape-shit over Stafford's pro day (or was it the workout with the Lions?) where he threw 40-some passes and only 3 hit the ground. Quinn threw 63 passes on his pro day and only 5 hit the ground (and 4 of those were pinned on the receiver.) Newton and Einstein must have been Quinn fags.
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Here's the thing about Quinn's "losing the strike zone": he seemed to miss the easy throws much more frequently than the hard ones.
I remember him throwing balls in the dirt at running back's feet or overthrowing TE outs.
I do NOT remember him sailing throws over WRs into safeties hands or throwing pick 6's to MLBs (cough, DA, cough).
Put another way, Quinn's mistakes cost downs, not drives and rarely ever points. His incompletions wouldn't ruin the whole offensive scheme or put ND behind the eight ball.
I'd love to see the breakdown on Quinn's incompletions in college and how accurate he was downfield versus medium vs. short. You know NFL teams have that stuff. Would be fascinating to see if my recollection is accurate.
Ha. No pun intended...
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Here's the thing about Quinn's "losing the strike zone": he seemed to miss the easy throws much more frequently than the hard ones.
I remember him throwing balls in the dirt at running back's feet or overthrowing TE outs.
I do NOT remember him sailing throws over WRs into safeties hands or throwing pick 6's to MLBs (cough, DA, cough).
Put another way, Quinn's mistakes cost downs, not drives and rarely ever points. His incompletions wouldn't ruin the whole offensive scheme or put ND behind the eight ball.
I'd love to see the breakdown on Quinn's incompletions in college and how accurate he was downfield versus medium vs. short. You know NFL teams have that stuff. Would be fascinating to see if my recollection is accurate.
Ha. No pun intended...
I remember him throwing balls in the dirt at running back's feet or overthrowing TE outs.
Exactly. And the funny thing is that most of the times those off-target throws would come very early in the game, usually the first series....and then he'd settle down and all would be fine.
His biggest accuracy issue that I have noticed was every once in a while sailing an out to the blonde in the 1st row very early in the game. I don't know if it's just because he was too hyped-up, but he wouldn't continue to make those bad throws throughout the games.
Again, the whole perceived issue with Quinn's accuracy continues to baffle me.
You don't put up the numbers he did if you are inaccurate. And of his 3 best receivers (who set some ND records themselves) over his Junior and Senior year:
1 is playing baseball
1 is fighting with everything he has just to stay on an NFL roster, much less see the field
1 went undrafted, got signed as UDFA, released, signed, released....and is probably selling insurance now
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I agree...I don't know where that stuff comes from, but then I haven't seen the kid play very often. I have seen a trend to check-down much like Couch did....which i don't like, but it is way tosoon to say that is something that is going to be a problem.
This is the kids 3rd year. He's had the proper seasoning and has had enough play time to be over the rookie jitters. He should be able to come out and play well.
It isn't going to take 20 games, or even 8 games to be able to tell if he has it or he doesn't.
That doesn't mean he can't improve with each outing over the next 20 games, but it should be pretty easy to see where his floor is.
It's hard to tell where a ceiling might end, but that floor is pretty easy to spot pretty early in the process. History shows most qbs have a similar rage between the floor and ceiling, so once you know where the floor might be, it gives you a pretty good idea of where he may top out.
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IIRC, there were concerns about Quinn's accuracy getting spotty when he faced a lot of pressure. Also, some people criticized Quinn for throwing a lot of high passes, though others claimed that Weis purposely had him put the ball in a spot only his tall receivers could reach.
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The video of Quinns pro day where Weiss says that Quinn threw 65 passes, 5 hit the ground, 1 was his fault, he also throws many bombs. That not only shows skill, but endurance as well
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Every QB's accuracy gets spotty when he faces a lot of pressure.
Quinn's knock was more about his deep ball accuracy getting spotty, and every now and then him having a throw that was way off for no reason at all.
Masters said:
Every QB's accuracy gets spotty when he faces a lot of pressure.Okay, but I'm sure they're not all affected to the same degree.
Here's part of BQ's old nfldraftscout scouting report. You can see what they said about his alleged accuracy issues:
Negatives: Shows some elusiveness on the run, but won't frighten any defense when having to carry the ball (out in the open, he simply lacks the elusiveness to gain positive yardage)...Not the type who can consistently make plays with his feet...Used to drop the ball and pat it a bit, but with his improved over-the-top release point, he was able to generate better quickness with his tosses...When he throws with a long arc, he doesn't always follow through (mostly on deep outs)...Will still sometimes force the receiver to adjust a bit on crossing patterns and needs to take something off his passes when dumping off, but can drop the ball over the top...Does not have that overpowering arm to lead the receivers going deep, but can put good touch on those throws (showed good improvement with his trajectory, but when going long on the move, he did make his receivers adjust a bit)...Has better timing when taking a three-step drop, but may hold the ball a little too long, resulting in sacks when he takes a longer (five-step) drop...Has good movement skills for a tall quarterback to avoid and elude the pass rush, but must continue to work on ball security (10 fumbles his first two years, but only three in 2005), as he leaves the ball too exposed when on the move...Can throw on the run, but needs to do a better job of squaring his shoulders when delivering the ball (plays on his feet, but you see that he loses some of his accuracy when throwing on the move).
I'm not saying that this is a huge problem for him - just that Sanchez is a more accurate passer.
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IIRC, there were concerns about Quinn's accuracy getting spotty when he faced a lot of pressure. Also, some people criticized Quinn for throwing a lot of high passes, though others claimed that Weis purposely had him put the ball in a spot only his tall receivers could reach.
Aloysius said:
IIRC, there were concerns about Quinn's accuracy getting spotty when he faced a lot of pressure. Also, some people criticized Quinn for throwing a lot of high passes, though others claimed that Weis purposely had him put the ball in a spot only his tall receivers could reach.I've never heard this before, but it may very well have been the case. Let's not forget Quinn had Stovall and Samardzija (both over 6'4) and Fasano then Carlson at TE (also big guys). So it's entirely possible Weis programmed him that way.
Whatever his accuracy issue is or may be, here's the only number I really care about:
14.
As in INTs his senior year.
And 3 of those 14 were in the UM game when ND was down over 20 at the half and passing the entire second half. Again, I challenge anyone to find more than 1 or 2 really awful Quinn INTs from his senior year. They just don't exist.
Which bodes well for him in the pro's, I think.
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OVERALL GRADE: 7.06
John David Booty was a better QB than Dirty Sanchez.
Whoever produces these number ratings for players needs to go back to playing World of Warcraft with their dork friends.
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