GOP Candidates Fueled by Evangelical Insanity
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Sounds like an advocate for the God of the Gaps
Says the Richard Dawkins disciple.
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Sounds like an advocate for the God of the Gaps
Says the Richard Dawkins disciple.
Says the Richard Dawkins disciple.
Is that supposed to be an insult? Please explain.
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Sounds like an advocate for the God of the Gaps
Says the Richard Dawkins disciple.
Says the Richard Dawkins disciple.
I'm not sure what the insult is, so I'm not sure how to respond. I imagine it wont be ironic coming from you in any way though...
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Wrong again Woody. I never said that as an insult. Your views are totally in line with Dawkins are they not?
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You definitely worded that as if it was a jab at me.
I do not know all of Dawkins views, I couldn't tell you.
If we do, I can tell you I used my own reasoning and information gathering to get there. I wasn't just shown a book...
But yes, this sounds like the god of the gaps argument. As science discovers more and more about the universe, we find more and more areas a literal interpretation of the bible is objectively wrong. This forces those on your side to cling to the gaps that remain and say "Ah ha! You can't prove this, so god did it!"
Give it time and you'll keep receding. Just like the religious influence and population in the US.
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look it up, Woody.
google "Richard Dawkins". Read it. You tell us what you think.
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Wrong again Woody. I never said that as an insult. Your views are totally in line with Dawkins are they not?
Wrong again Woody. I never said that as an insult. Your views are totally in line with Dawkins are they not?
So, if not an insult, what? Like "says the person I'm talking to?" I'm genuinely confused.
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Wrong again Woody. I never said that as an insult. Your views are totally in line with Dawkins are they not?
So, if not an insult, what? Like "says the person I'm talking to?" I'm genuinely confused.
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Did I say that?
I'm commenting on the views you have described for us here. I said your argument sounded like it fits into the god of the gaps argument.
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Did I say that?
I'm commenting on the views you have described for us here. I said your argument sounded like it fits into the god of the gaps argument.
Did I say that?
I'm commenting on the views you have described for us here. I said your argument sounded like it fits into the god of the gaps argument.
And I'm saying your views fit right in with Richard Dawkins. You are the one who took it as an insult.
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So, the laws are there, and they are the laws that you should be living up to, but because you're 'only human after all' you can just kind of ignore them? That's mighty convenient.
Who said anything about ignoring anything. I said no one could keep the law. That is the reason Jesus came. Christianity is not built on a set of rules to follow it is a relationship with God. The bible speaks of a new covenant relationship that was to come and now we are living in it:
Jeremiah 31:31-34New International Version (NIV)31 “The days are coming,” declares the Lord,
“when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to[a] them,[b]”
declares the Lord.
33 “This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
34 No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the Lord.
“For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”
Christianity is not built on a set of rules to follow it is a relationship with God.
Oh Rly???
*Where is that damn Owl Meme when you need it??*
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Christianity is not built on a set of rules to follow it is a relationship with God.
Oh Rly???
*Where is that damn Owl Meme when you need it??*
Oh Rly???
*Where is that damn Owl Meme when you need it??*
Jesus summed all the law and rules up like this:
The Greatest Commandment Read Leviticus 19:18; Deuteronomy 6:4-9 & Mark 12:28-34 Key verses: “You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your being, with all your mind, and with all your strength. The second is this, You will love your neighbor as yourself. No other commandment is greater than these” (Mark 12:30-31).
Sometimes, simpler is better. The need to summarize the Law into a single, working principle was the likely motive behind the scribe’s question to Jesus: “Which commandment is the most important of all?” (Mark 12:28) Effectively summarizing the Pharisaical law and tradition of Jesus’ day was no easy task. The oral law alone consisted of some 613 statutes with 365 prohibitions. So it was a difficult question that the scribe asked Jesus. To answer it, Jesus skillfully drew from the Old Testament scriptures. First, He reaffirmed the foundational truth of Deuteronomy 6:4-5, known as the Shema: “Israel, listen! Our God is the Lord! Only the Lord! Love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your being, and all your strength.” These words were written on the doorpost of every Jewish home. Next, Jesus joined this key truth with the commandment of Leviticus 19:18: “…you must love your neighbor as yourself.” With these few words, Jesus summed up the Law, the Prophets, and the Gospel that He came to bring.
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Matthew 5:18
For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
Sure sounds like Jesus thought the Old Testament still applied.
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"To fulfill them"
Jesus also said he came not to abolish the Law or the Prophets, that is, the Holy Scriptures, but to "fulfill them" (Matthew 5:17). We should notice that Jesus did not tell Christians to "fulfill" these Scriptures down to the smallest letter and least stroke of a pen. He said he came to fulfill the Holy Scriptures.
What did he mean by this? The Greek word for "fulfill" isplerosai. According to Greek scholars, the nuance and meaning of this word is difficult to express in English, and several possibilities have been offered. These are summarized by four options:
- Jesus came to accomplish or obey the Holy Scriptures,
After reviewing several ways of looking at the word "fulfill," the Expositor’s Commentary on Matthew concluded by saying: "The best interpretation of these difficult verses says that Jesus fulfills the Law and the Prophets in that they point to him, and he is their fulfillment. The antithesis is not between ‘abolish’ and ‘keep’ but between ‘abolish’ and ‘fulfill’" (page 143).
Let’s see how this possibility works out. It is certainly a proper understanding of Jesus’ intent to say that he came to fulfill the Law and the Prophets in himself—in his life and salvation work, and that the Scriptures pointed to him.
The book of Matthew was written to prove from the Jewish Scriptures that Jesus fulfilled the requirements of messiahship. Matthew often said Jesus acted "to fulfill" what was said through one prophet or another (Matthew 1:22;2:5, 15, 17, 23; 4:14;8:17, etc.). One can read through the book of Matthew and note all the times that a reference is made to the Old Testament as being fulfilled in Jesus. It is surprising, indeed.
To ask again: Did Jesus mean Christians had to keep all the regulations of the Law of Moses, including the "holy time" regulations of the Sabbath, or strict tithing, or the food laws? Consider what that line of reasoning would demand.
Christians would be obligated to keep all the sacrificial, ceremonial and civil laws described in the Law of Moses. They would have to keep every single law mentioned in Genesis through Deuteronomy — and the rest of the Old Testament. The Jews calculated that there were 613 laws in their Holy Scriptures. Christians, then, based on the idea that Jesus was telling his disciples to keep the regulations of the Law and the Prophets, would have to keep all 613 laws. No wonder the apostle Paul said that thinking in these terms was wrongheaded (Galatians 3:10).
To pick a few examples of this line of reasoning, Christian men would have to be physically circumcised. All Christians would have to offer sacrifices. Men, at least, would have to travel to Jerusalem to keep the annual festivals. Christians would have to keep the various purification rituals. One of these rituals specified that individuals who came in contact with dead bodies would be "unclean" for seven days. They would have to ceremonially wash themselves on the third and seventh day (Numbers 19:11-13). If any person failed to do this, he or she would be "cut off from Israel" (verse 13). There are many dozens of such laws in the Law of Moses that would have to be followed.
"Everything is accomplished"
Jesus said that until heaven and earth ceased to exist, nothing would disappear from the law "until everything is accomplished" (5:18). But heaven and earth will pass away, and by contrast, Jesus’ own words will remain forever (Matthew 24:35). They have a greater validity than the Law because Jesus is greater than Moses.
The meaning of "until everything is accomplished" has several possibilities. It is suggested by the Tyndale New Testament Commentary that the translation: "Until what it [the Law] looks forward to arrives" gives the best sense of this phrase. This links the thought with the idea of "fulfillment" in verse 17. This also seems to be the thrust of Paul’s comments regarding the relationship of the Law and Jesus’ earthly ministry (Galatians 3:19, 23-25).
The Tyndale New Testament Commentary expresses the interpretation of "accomplished" in these words:
"The law remains valid until it reaches its intended culmination; this it is now doing in the ministry and teaching of Jesus. This verse does not state, therefore, as it is sometimes interpreted, that every regulation in the Old Testament law remains binding after the coming of Jesus. The law is unalterable, but that does not justify its application beyond the purpose for which it was intended" (page 115).The Tyndale commentary also makes the same point in these words:
"This passage does not therefore state that every Old Testament regulation is eternally valid. This view is not found anywhere in the New Testament, which consistently sees Jesus as introducing a new situation, for which the law prepared (), but which now transcends it. The focus is now on Jesus and his teaching, and in this light the validity of Old Testament rules must now be examined. Some will be found to have fulfilled their role, and be no longer applicable...others will be reinterpreted" (page 117).This explanation must be the correct one, or else the early Christian church and the apostles violated Matthew 5:17-19 by telling gentile Christians that circumcision and keeping the Law of Moses was not necessary. The book of Galatians would also have been in error on this point. And the book of Hebrews would have been in extraordinary violation of Jesus’ words, too, since it states that the entire sacrificial system, the temple worship and Levitical priesthood had been annulled.
However, these books are in agreement with the principle mentioned above. They explain that some old covenant religious regulations have fulfilled their role and others need reinterpretation. This is the situation that holds with the ceremonial weekly Sabbath "holy time" regulation. It fulfilled its role in old covenant times and can be interpreted spiritually for Christians as the spiritual Sabbath rest we now have in Christ.
"Least of these commandments"
In Matthew 5:19 Jesus also said that if anyone broke "one of the least of these commandments" and taught others to do so, that person would be called "least" in the kingdom. Those who practiced and taught these commands of which he spoke would be called "great" in that kingdom. How do these words fit into the discussion?
One explanation of this phrase is that "these commandments" refer to the teaching of Jesus in Matthew 5-7, and not to the Old Testament or its law. His reinterpretation of old covenant law was certainly the subject of much of the Sermon on the Mount.
After discussing the Law and the Prophets, Jesus went on to give six units of teaching, each introduced by the phrase, "You have heard that it was said... But I say to you" (Matthew 5:21-48). In those six units, Jesus gave varied examples of how the principles he was discussing should work out in practice among his disciples. He began each section with how Jews might have taught and applied a literal understanding of Old Testament law. Then Jesus gave his more discerning view — the real intent or aim of the law in general, and the six examples he chose in particular.
To summarize, he mentioned the following subjects: murder and anger,based on the sixth commandment (5:21-26); adultery, the seventh commandment (5:27-30); divorce, from Deuteronomy 24:1 (5:31-32);swearing and oaths, summarizing teaching from such scriptures as Leviticus 19:12 and Numbers 30:2 (5:33-37); legal rights, quoted from Exodus 21:24-25, Leviticus 24:20, and Deuteronomy 19:21 (5:38-42); and the principle of loving one’s neighbor, from Leviticus 19:18 (5:43-47).
What we notice is that the examples Jesus chose come from all five books of Moses. These six principles are then summarized as the greater righteousness of Jesus’ disciples (5:48). The disciples of Jesus, in contrast to the scribes and Pharisees, must be "perfect," that is, have a life totally motivated by the will of God. Jesus contrasted this new and radical righteousness (5:20) with the scrupulous religious observance of old covenant demands practiced by Pharisees and other Jewish religious teachers (6:1-8. 16-18).
Jesus did not come to annul the Holy Scriptures as a body of holy writingssince they were "God breathed" words of the Creator. But they were not an end in themselves, as many Jews thought. Jesus had come to bring the truth to which those Scriptures pointed (John 1:17).
The law of Christ
If we look carefully at the context of the verse in which Jesus spoke of fulfilling the Law, particularly at what follows Matthew 5:17-19, we will note that Jesus was redefining the teaching from the Law and the Prophets. He was pointing out which principles from the Holy Scriptures had an eternal validity and their intended purpose, and how both were to be understood.
In short, Jesus was creating a spiritual law, which we may call the "law of Christ" (John 13:33-35) — and this becomes the norm for Christian living, not the old covenant law. This is demonstrated by the fact that one cannot find in the teaching in Matthew 5-6 any discussion of ceremonial laws such as the Sabbath and annual festival "holy time" regulations — a hallmark of Jewish religious observance based on old covenant commands.
While Jews concerned themselves with what Moses and their traditions said, Jesus superseded that approach to God with his own instruction. He became the standard of truth (John 1:17). In referring to both the Law of Moses and the tradition of the elders, Jesus boldly proclaimed, "But I say to you" (Matthew 5:22, 28, 32, 34, 39, 44). At the end of the Sermon, Jesus told his hearers that the wise person is one "who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice" (Matthew 7:24).
The orientation of the new covenant is to Christ and the cross, not to Moses and the tables of stone. The great sermon of the new covenant is not the one given on Mt. Sinai, but by Jesus Christ (John 1:17). He explained the spiritual-moral principles of the new covenant that apply to Christians. These are amply discussed in several places in the New Testament (in Galatians 5:22-25, for example). We should note that these places do not contain any mention of such ceremonial regulations as keeping a specific day of the week.
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Well apparently, according to woody, if they were pandering to muslims it wouldn't be a problem at all. The evil evangelicals who hurt you with words and are actual Americans are much more concerning than an ideology that smiles upon terrorism and the ownership of women and slaves.
:neutral_face: -
Matthew 5:18
For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
Sure sounds like Jesus thought the Old Testament still applied.
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5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Jesus did not do away with the moral law but with the ceremonial law which was for the theocratic nation Israel. The New Testament also introduced the concept of grace as the way of life, an intrinsic rather than an extrinsic way of life.
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I hope no ladies lie about being virgins or else we get to warm up our stoning arms.
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Rapists need to cover the 50 shekels and the wedding because the Old Testament still applies.
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Rapists need to cover the 50 shekels and the wedding because the Old Testament still applies.
Rapists need to cover the 50 shekels and the wedding because the Old Testament still applies.
Now you're just being silly. I mean yes those rules apply, but we're only human after all, so it's no biggy. Jesus got our back.
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Rapists need to cover the 50 shekels and the wedding because the Old Testament still applies.
Now you're just being silly. I mean yes those rules apply, but we're only human after all, so it's no biggy. Jesus got our back.
Now you're just being silly. I mean yes those rules apply, but we're only human after all, so it's no biggy. Jesus got our back.
I hope there is a monthly installment plan for rapists that can't cover the 50 all at once. Like getting a Rent-To-Own wife/victim.
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