RG3 Signs with the Browns
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Doing an analysis of the bad first round picks doesn't mean much - except that
the Browns fo and coaches drafted stupidly. There are guys who have elite physical
talent, but WHO are they on and off the field?
Do they love the game? Have the work ethic and desire to succeed?
That bit of criteria would pretty much have saved the Browns from a lot of drafting failures.
Some folks say they don't care about off the field, but with the qb who will remain nameless, and
the wr who can't stay on the field.... it matters a hell of a lot, especially when you draft in the first
couple of rounds.
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BPA isn't a pass rusher, at least not Bosa, and at least not according to the aforementioned CBS and NFL rankings. It's an OT, or a FS, or a DE not named Bosa.
Bosa will become the best player out of the top of this draft.
BPA aligned with need, however, points to a QB - since a franchise QB is the number one similarity between all Super Bowl winning teams over the last 15 years...not DE. Maybe these guys do turn out like Harrington, and maybe Bosa turns out like Gholston.
QB may be our #1 need, sure. But, I would bet against the last half of your last sentence...but not against the first half.
Odds are greater, however, that one (likely both) of these QB's ends up having a long and prosperous NFL career. Because, once again, these guys are legitimately ranked as top prospects, unlike any of the QB's we've taken.
Where do you get these stupid odds? Historically you would be dead ass wrong.....I detailed it on here in a different post: TWO ThIrds of all first round QBs become busts...including all the very high picks. THAT is the historical fact that we have to go on. It is far more accurate to say historically that BOTH these QB will be busts than it is to say both will be greatly successful.
I hope they beat the odds...especially if the Browns choose one. But the odds are against them.
Your argument as a whole doesn't make sense. You want us to take the BPA on the board instead of taking the top QB (really you just want us to take Bosa, you're just thinly veiling it behind a BPA argument)
I want Bosa because I think he will become the best pro player of those high on the prospect list. And I think maybe he has a 50/50 chance of making it.
The others have about a one third chance.
because our first round drafting has been so bad...yet you are completely disregarding the fact that we HAVE more often taken BPA over the last 15 years than we have drafted the top QB. Overall, it's not very logical.
I haven't ignored it at all....I just detailed it on my last post.
Facts: The Browns have "hit" on only 20% of their first round picks. Fact: The Browns have drafted more QBs in the first round than any other single postiton....and have gone O'fer that position. Their hit rate is exactly -0-%.
Maybe they SHOULD draft the OT.....they are batting 100% there (Thomas). Or center. They have gotten two good players...and a green prospect.
Ain't not nobody named not a one of us nobody darned one of us can say that for certainty until after the dang kids plays dah dang darn games
Ain't not nobody named not a one of us nobody darned one of us can say that for certainty until after the dang kids plays dah dang darn games
That is completely true. Its just what I believe.
Your pithy arguments are not persuasive.
And the difference between us is that I admit that none of us know shit from shinola about this. You just delude yourself by thinking you do know shit from shinola.
Well at least you may know shit...that's for sure.
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Doing an analysis of the bad first round picks doesn't mean much - except that
the Browns fo and coaches drafted stupidly. There are guys who have elite physical
talent, but WHO are they on and off the field?
Do they love the game? Have the work ethic and desire to succeed?
That bit of criteria would pretty much have saved the Browns from a lot of drafting failures.
Some folks say they don't care about off the field, but with the qb who will remain nameless, and
the wr who can't stay on the field.... it matters a hell of a lot, especially when you draft in the first
couple of rounds.
Doing an analysis of the bad first round picks doesn't mean much - except that
the Browns fo and coaches drafted stupidly. There are guys who have elite physical
talent, but WHO are they on and off the field?
Well, as opposed to not meaning much....that actually means quite a lot doesn't it? Perhaps you mean it means nothing toward analyzing what the Browns should do in this draft....then I would agree.
Do they love the game? Have the work ethic and desire to succeed?
That bit of criteria would pretty much have saved the Browns from a lot of drafting failures.
I don't know....if they had indices that these guys were fuckups or fuckoffs I don't think they would have drafted them. I think it is to some respect just dumbass bad luck.
Some folks say they don't care about off the field, but with the qb who will remain nameless, and
the wr who can't stay on the field.... it matters a hell of a lot, especially when you draft in the first
couple of rounds.
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BPA isn't a pass rusher, at least not Bosa, and at least not according to the aforementioned CBS and NFL rankings. It's an OT, or a FS, or a DE not named Bosa.
Bosa will become the best player out of the top of this draft.
BPA aligned with need, however, points to a QB - since a franchise QB is the number one similarity between all Super Bowl winning teams over the last 15 years...not DE. Maybe these guys do turn out like Harrington, and maybe Bosa turns out like Gholston.
QB may be our #1 need, sure. But, I would bet against the last half of your last sentence...but not against the first half.
Odds are greater, however, that one (likely both) of these QB's ends up having a long and prosperous NFL career. Because, once again, these guys are legitimately ranked as top prospects, unlike any of the QB's we've taken.
Where do you get these stupid odds? Historically you would be dead ass wrong.....I detailed it on here in a different post: TWO ThIrds of all first round QBs become busts...including all the very high picks. THAT is the historical fact that we have to go on. It is far more accurate to say historically that BOTH these QB will be busts than it is to say both will be greatly successful.
I hope they beat the odds...especially if the Browns choose one. But the odds are against them.
Your argument as a whole doesn't make sense. You want us to take the BPA on the board instead of taking the top QB (really you just want us to take Bosa, you're just thinly veiling it behind a BPA argument)
I want Bosa because I think he will become the best pro player of those high on the prospect list. And I think maybe he has a 50/50 chance of making it.
The others have about a one third chance.
because our first round drafting has been so bad...yet you are completely disregarding the fact that we HAVE more often taken BPA over the last 15 years than we have drafted the top QB. Overall, it's not very logical.
I haven't ignored it at all....I just detailed it on my last post.
Facts: The Browns have "hit" on only 20% of their first round picks. Fact: The Browns have drafted more QBs in the first round than any other single postiton....and have gone O'fer that position. Their hit rate is exactly -0-%.
Maybe they SHOULD draft the OT.....they are batting 100% there (Thomas). Or center. They have gotten two good players...and a green prospect.
BPA isn't a pass rusher, at least not Bosa, and at least not according to the aforementioned CBS and NFL rankings. It's an OT, or a FS, or a DE not named Bosa.
Bosa will become the best player out of the top of this draft.
BPA aligned with need, however, points to a QB - since a franchise QB is the number one similarity between all Super Bowl winning teams over the last 15 years...not DE. Maybe these guys do turn out like Harrington, and maybe Bosa turns out like Gholston.
QB may be our #1 need, sure. But, I would bet against the last half of your last sentence...but not against the first half.
Odds are greater, however, that one (likely both) of these QB's ends up having a long and prosperous NFL career. Because, once again, these guys are legitimately ranked as top prospects, unlike any of the QB's we've taken.
Where do you get these stupid odds? Historically you would be dead ass wrong.....I detailed it on here in a different post: TWO ThIrds of all first round QBs become busts...including all the very high picks. THAT is the historical fact that we have to go on. It is far more accurate to say historically that BOTH these QB will be busts than it is to say both will be greatly successful.
I hope they beat the odds...especially if the Browns choose one. But the odds are against them.
Your argument as a whole doesn't make sense. You want us to take the BPA on the board instead of taking the top QB (really you just want us to take Bosa, you're just thinly veiling it behind a BPA argument)
I want Bosa because I think he will become the best pro player of those high on the prospect list. And I think maybe he has a 50/50 chance of making it.
The others have about a one third chance.
because our first round drafting has been so bad...yet you are completely disregarding the fact that we HAVE more often taken BPA over the last 15 years than we have drafted the top QB. Overall, it's not very logical.
I haven't ignored it at all....I just detailed it on my last post.
Facts: The Browns have "hit" on only 20% of their first round picks. Fact: The Browns have drafted more QBs in the first round than any other single postiton....and have gone O'fer that position. Their hit rate is exactly -0-%.
Maybe they SHOULD draft the OT.....they are batting 100% there (Thomas). Or center. They have gotten two good players...and a green prospect.
If that's how we're going to do things...
Fact: The Browns have drafted the top ranked QB prospect exactly zero times since Tim Couch.
Fact: The Browns have had exactly zero "franchise" QBs over the same span.
Fact: Hue Jackson is largely considered a QB "guru".
Fact: The Browns are in position to draft the top QB in this draft.
Fact: Hue Jackson was at Jared Goff's Pro Day and Carson Wentz's Pro Day.
Fact: Hue Jackson did not attend Joey Bosa's Pro Day.
Opinion: Joey Bosa will have an average, to slightly above average NFL career, falling short of the career of one (if not both) of the top two QB prospects.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Ain't not nobody named not a one of us nobody darned one of us can say that for certainty until after the dang kids plays dah dang darn games
That is completely true. Its just what I believe.
Your pithy arguments are not persuasive.
And the difference between us is that I admit that none of us know shit from shinola about this. You just delude yourself by thinking you do know shit from shinola.
Well at least you may know shit...that's for sure.
That is completely true. Its just what I believe.
Your pithy arguments are not persuasive.
And the difference between us is that I admit that none of us know shit from shinola about this. You just delude yourself by thinking you do know shit from shinola.
Well at least you may know shit...that's for sure.
Hey, Bosa may be "Da Bomb" or just bomb like a couple other OSU college studs like the (previously mentioned) Vernon Gholston, or Dan "Big Dud-dy" Wilkinson. I freely admit I was dead wrong about Wilkinson- I saw the second coming of Bruce Smith there. Sooooooo..... we get it, you loves some Bosa. FWIW, I don't particularly.
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BPA isn't a pass rusher, at least not Bosa, and at least not according to the aforementioned CBS and NFL rankings. It's an OT, or a FS, or a DE not named Bosa.
Bosa will become the best player out of the top of this draft.
BPA aligned with need, however, points to a QB - since a franchise QB is the number one similarity between all Super Bowl winning teams over the last 15 years...not DE. Maybe these guys do turn out like Harrington, and maybe Bosa turns out like Gholston.
QB may be our #1 need, sure. But, I would bet against the last half of your last sentence...but not against the first half.
Odds are greater, however, that one (likely both) of these QB's ends up having a long and prosperous NFL career. Because, once again, these guys are legitimately ranked as top prospects, unlike any of the QB's we've taken.
Where do you get these stupid odds? Historically you would be dead ass wrong.....I detailed it on here in a different post: TWO ThIrds of all first round QBs become busts...including all the very high picks. THAT is the historical fact that we have to go on. It is far more accurate to say historically that BOTH these QB will be busts than it is to say both will be greatly successful.
I hope they beat the odds...especially if the Browns choose one. But the odds are against them.
Your argument as a whole doesn't make sense. You want us to take the BPA on the board instead of taking the top QB (really you just want us to take Bosa, you're just thinly veiling it behind a BPA argument)
I want Bosa because I think he will become the best pro player of those high on the prospect list. And I think maybe he has a 50/50 chance of making it.
The others have about a one third chance.
because our first round drafting has been so bad...yet you are completely disregarding the fact that we HAVE more often taken BPA over the last 15 years than we have drafted the top QB. Overall, it's not very logical.
I haven't ignored it at all....I just detailed it on my last post.
Facts: The Browns have "hit" on only 20% of their first round picks. Fact: The Browns have drafted more QBs in the first round than any other single postiton....and have gone O'fer that position. Their hit rate is exactly -0-%.
Maybe they SHOULD draft the OT.....they are batting 100% there (Thomas). Or center. They have gotten two good players...and a green prospect.
If that's how we're going to do things...
Fact: The Browns have drafted the top ranked QB prospect exactly zero times since Tim Couch.
Fact: The Browns have had exactly zero "franchise" QBs over the same span.
Fact: Hue Jackson is largely considered a QB "guru".
Fact: The Browns are in position to draft the top QB in this draft.
Fact: Hue Jackson was at Jared Goff's Pro Day and Carson Wentz's Pro Day.
Fact: Hue Jackson did not attend Joey Bosa's Pro Day.
Opinion: Joey Bosa will have an average, to slightly above average NFL career, falling short of the career of one (if not both) of the top two QB prospects.
If that's how we're going to do things...
Fact: The Browns have drafted the top ranked QB prospect exactly zero times since Tim Couch.
Who cares......if they take a QB 1st round....I want him to play like first rounders.
Fact: The Browns have had exactly zero "franchise" QBs over the same span.
Sure....their choices have all been busts.
Fact: Hue Jackson is largely considered a QB "guru".
OK, hope he lives up to that reputation.
Fact: The Browns are in position to draft the top QB in this draft.
They are in position to draft the #2 player in this draft....regardless of position.
Fact: Hue Jackson was at Jared Goff's Pro Day and Carson Wentz's Pro Day.
Sure....and a lot of other players.
Fact: Hue Jackson did not attend Joey Bosa's Pro Day.
Its called laying in the weeds.
Opinion: Joey Bosa will have an average, to slightly above average NFL career, falling short of the career of one (if not both) of the top two QB prospects.
Opinions are like assholes...and some come from the same location. We shall see in a few years. ( But, If the Browns do take the QB....I hope you are right.....even if Bosa is HOF I would hope the Browns QB is even better)
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That is completely true. Its just what I believe.
Your pithy arguments are not persuasive.
And the difference between us is that I admit that none of us know shit from shinola about this. You just delude yourself by thinking you do know shit from shinola.
Well at least you may know shit...that's for sure.
Hey, Bosa may be "Da Bomb" or just bomb like a couple other OSU college studs like the (previously mentioned) Vernon Gholston, or Dan "Big Dud-dy" Wilkinson. I freely admit I was dead wrong about Wilkinson- I saw the second coming of Bruce Smith there. Sooooooo..... we get it, you loves some Bosa. FWIW, I don't particularly.
Hey, Bosa may be "Da Bomb" or just bomb like a couple other OSU college studs like the (previously mentioned) Vernon Gholston, or Dan "Big Dud-dy" Wilkinson. I freely admit I was dead wrong about Wilkinson- I saw the second coming of Bruce Smith there. Sooooooo..... we get it, you loves some Bosa. FWIW, I don't particularly.
Well, or, maybe Bosa will be the one to fulfill your Bruce Smith fantasy.
As for my fantasies?
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Ain't not nobody named not a one of us nobody darned one of us can say that for certainty until after the dang kids plays dah dang darn games
That is completely true. Its just what I believe.
Your pithy arguments are not persuasive.
And the difference between us is that I admit that none of us know shit from shinola about this. You just delude yourself by thinking you do know shit from shinola.
Well at least you may know shit...that's for sure.
That is completely true. Its just what I believe.
Your pithy arguments are not persuasive.
And the difference between us is that I admit that none of us know shit from shinola about this. You just delude yourself by thinking you do know shit from shinola.
Well at least you may know shit...that's for sure.
I was kidding around you old bag. Don't be so butthurt and defensive.
And I know close to nothing, but you know nothing. I'm OK with that.
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That is completely true. Its just what I believe.
Your pithy arguments are not persuasive.
And the difference between us is that I admit that none of us know shit from shinola about this. You just delude yourself by thinking you do know shit from shinola.
Well at least you may know shit...that's for sure.
I was kidding around you old bag. Don't be so butthurt and defensive.
And I know close to nothing, but you know nothing. I'm OK with that.
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I'll say right now, we could have been a winning team last season with McCown, if not for the complete break down of the rest of the team. QB wasn't the issue, but it's the first thing we want to address? That's the pill that won't go down easy for me. So in my mind at least, after day 1 of the draft we will be no better as a team then we already were if we draft a Qb. We will be younger there, but not better. 300+ yards passing isn't enough to win games with this roster obviously.
“It is impossible to get a man to understand something if his livelihood depends on him not understanding.” -
Doing an analysis of the bad first round picks doesn't mean much - except that
the Browns fo and coaches drafted stupidly. There are guys who have elite physical
talent, but WHO are they on and off the field?
Do they love the game? Have the work ethic and desire to succeed?
That bit of criteria would pretty much have saved the Browns from a lot of drafting failures.
Some folks say they don't care about off the field, but with the qb who will remain nameless, and
the wr who can't stay on the field.... it matters a hell of a lot, especially when you draft in the first
couple of rounds.
-
Agree...
There is a difference between THE top QB and a top QB...
So.....you agree that a 1st round pick shouldn't be expected to play like a first rounder. That its OK for them to just be throw away picks.
Because that is essentiallywhat we have had....first round throwaway picks. Weeden, Richardson, Mingo, Manziel, Gilbert.
Fucking throw away picks that I think should have been top notch players.
Sorry that I feel that way. I am a Browns fan and I expect our first round picks to play like that is what they are. I want them all to be Joe Thomas....or at least Joe Haden in terms of their production. I don't care if they are #1 overall or #32.
So.....you agree that a 1st round pick shouldn't be expected to play like a first rounder. That its OK for them to just be throw away picks.
Because that is essentiallywhat we have had....first round throwaway picks. Weeden, Richardson, Mingo, Manziel, Gilbert.
Fucking throw away picks that I think should have been top notch players.
Sorry that I feel that way. I am a Browns fan and I expect our first round picks to play like that is what they are. I want them all to be Joe Thomas....or at least Joe Haden in terms of their production. I don't care if they are #1 overall or #32.
First, do you actually stomp your feet when you make your little nonsensically unresponsive posts or is that just what i imagine when I read them?
Second, do you honestly believe that all first rounders are created equal? All 32 of them?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I'll say right now, we could have been a winning team last season with McCown, if not for the complete break down of the rest of the team. QB wasn't the issue, but it's the first thing we want to address? That's the pill that won't go down easy for me. So in my mind at least, after day 1 of the draft we will be no better as a team then we already were if we draft a Qb. We will be younger there, but not better. 300+ yards passing isn't enough to win games with this roster obviously.
I'll say right now, we could have been a winning team last season with McCown, if not for the complete break down of the rest of the team. QB wasn't the issue, but it's the first thing we want to address? That's the pill that won't go down easy for me. So in my mind at least, after day 1 of the draft we will be no better as a team then we already were if we draft a Qb. We will be younger there, but not better. 300+ yards passing isn't enough to win games with this roster obviously.
OK, finally get where you're coming from. I respectfully disagree. I'm looking beyond day 1 in the draft. We need a RT to replace Schwartz, should be one there. Hope and pray Erving does better at center than he did at guard. The X factor to improve is Josh Gordon. The silence is deafening there. The way I read the reinstatement policy-
"1. Within 45 days of receipt of the application, the player will be interviewed by the Medical Director and the Medical Advisor, who will make a recommendation to the Commissioner.
2. Gordon will provide access to information about his substance abuse history, including but not limited to attendance at counseling sessions (individual, group and family); attendance at 12-step and other self-help group meetings; periodic progress reports; and all diagnostic findings and treatment recommendations.
3. He'll submit to urine testing by the NFL at a frequency determined by the Medical Advisor.
4. He'll agree in a meeting with the Commissioner or his representative(s) to comply with the conditions imposed by the Commissioner for his reinstatement to the status of an active player.
5. All individuals involved in the process will take steps to enable the Commissioner to render a decision within 60 days of the receipt of the application."
YO, Comish- time is almost up, we should hear something by April 3rd at the latest. (60 days from February 3rd, the date he was banned last year)
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the commish will probably wait til after the draft, per his friends, the looney rooneys.
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the commish will probably wait til after the draft, per his friends, the looney rooneys.
Cal, even the Rooneys can't mess with this one- it's in the CBA- plain as mud. What's puzzling to me- is the why this is all so hush-hush. Gordon HAD to have met with the Medical Director by now, way past 45 days. Not a peep anywhere. I'll assume that went OK. So where's the Twitterverse Gordon to meet with Goodell to discuss possible reinstatement?
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So.....you agree that a 1st round pick shouldn't be expected to play like a first rounder. That its OK for them to just be throw away picks.
Because that is essentiallywhat we have had....first round throwaway picks. Weeden, Richardson, Mingo, Manziel, Gilbert.
Fucking throw away picks that I think should have been top notch players.
Sorry that I feel that way. I am a Browns fan and I expect our first round picks to play like that is what they are. I want them all to be Joe Thomas....or at least Joe Haden in terms of their production. I don't care if they are #1 overall or #32.
First, do you actually stomp your feet when you make your little nonsensically unresponsive posts or is that just what i imagine when I read them?
Second, do you honestly believe that all first rounders are created equal? All 32 of them?
First, do you actually stomp your feet when you make your little nonsensically unresponsive posts or is that just what i imagine when I read them?
Second, do you honestly believe that all first rounders are created equal? All 32 of them?
My responses are perfectly apt:
No, but I believe all first rounders should be productive, contributing members to their team on at least an intermediate basis.
Do you not believe that?
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First, do you actually stomp your feet when you make your little nonsensically unresponsive posts or is that just what i imagine when I read them?
Second, do you honestly believe that all first rounders are created equal? All 32 of them?
My responses are perfectly apt:
No, but I believe all first rounders should be productive, contributing members to their team on at least an intermediate basis.
Do you not believe that?
My responses are perfectly apt:
No, but I believe all first rounders should be productive, contributing members to their team on at least an intermediate basis.
Do you not believe that?
I don't always agree with the Gipper but if you are one of the 32 best football players in the country, meaning the world, it stands to reason you should be able to play at at least a respectable level, no?
The exception to the rule should be when a first-round player busts.
WSS
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My responses are perfectly apt:
No, but I believe all first rounders should be productive, contributing members to their team on at least an intermediate basis.
Do you not believe that?
I don't always agree with the Gipper but if you are one of the 32 best football players in the country, meaning the world, it stands to reason you should be able to play at at least a respectable level, no?
The exception to the rule should be when a first-round player busts.
WSS
I don't always agree with the Gipper but if you are one of the 32 best football players in the country, meaning the world, it stands to reason you should be able to play at at least a respectable level, no?
The exception to the rule should be when a first-round player busts.
WSS
I think the point is that the Browns historically don't always take one of the best 32 players with their first round pick.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
I don't always agree with the Gipper but if you are one of the 32 best football players in the country, meaning the world, it stands to reason you should be able to play at at least a respectable level, no?
The exception to the rule should be when a first-round player busts.
WSS
I think the point is that the Browns historically don't always take one of the best 32 players with their first round pick.
I think the point is that the Browns historically don't always take one of the best 32 players with their first round pick.
Well, the theory is that they are supposed to be able to evaluate these players at a level where most of these first round picks are productive contributors. I think they should hit on a minimum 60%. But, yes, historically they have sucked swamp water in this area.
They are only hitting at a 20% rate. Yes, it is a gripe about the past....and unproductive toward the future. But it explains why yet again we have to try to go after positions that I think should have been covered: QB, pass rusher etc.
Over and over again we have to keep drafting the same thing. in the last 10 years we have gotten one JT, one Haden, one Mack.
We should have had 7 players that played at that level, not three. And one of them should have been a damned QB.
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I don't always agree with the Gipper but if you are one of the 32 best football players in the country, meaning the world, it stands to reason you should be able to play at at least a respectable level, no?
The exception to the rule should be when a first-round player busts.
WSS
I think the point is that the Browns historically don't always take one of the best 32 players with their first round pick.
Probably a big factor combined with some blind luck.I think the point is that the Browns historically don't always take one of the best 32 players with their first round pick.
Plus a good bit of reshuffling the deck every 18 months. Jeff Faine comes to mind.
WSS
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