Is Drango an Ideal Fit for a Power Scheme?
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When applying analytics to football it's important to maintain context.
(Something PFF has failed to do at times) Baylor, after their QB injury went to a run first team with quick, high percentage passes to supplement the running game.
Take that In comparison to a tackle like Conklin that plays in a more pro style offense with a more downfield passing game and we find that numbers don't always quantify performance.
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With our Talented roster I like our odds of keeping 10. Am I over or under? And bring some passion will yea
Happy to bring what I gots...
I take the "Over". Specifically I put the number at a dozen... and that's for the 53. Should Gordon return, he might force a drafted WR out the door, but that's still 11. Why so many?
- We are talent starved. Witness the running series on the 2016 Top 100. We have one... Barney... at #94. Pretty sure we see one more (a "fatass" deluxe). I doubt there's a third... at least not a third still on the roster.
- I only see 2 of our picks having a possibility of making it to the PS... Caldwell and Scooby. So it's 53 or bye-bye for the rest.
- The one thing our analytics' model needs is a "feedback loop". More on this point below...
Yes, feedback comes from every "evaluated" player who ends up playing snaps in the NFL, but there are many, many more that are relegated to STs if they see the field at all. These players do not provide feedback.
There's no feedback like that provided by those you can put eyes on daily... see their progress. Analytics is not about finding performances no one else sees. It's about finding potential no one else sees. Only by being able judge the degree to which that potential is realized can you get true feedback.
And finally feedback cannot be anecdotal... you need a proper sample size. Anyone who has taken Intro Statistics knows that the minimum sample size is generally held to be about 15.
STRONG POINTS: ... strong initial punch and heavy hands. Controls his man with inside hand position and active feet.
WEAK POINTS: Limited athletic ability against speed rushers.
SUMMARY: May be best suited for Guard in the NFL...
Three points I made in my write up and one exact opposite.
I saw hands outside grabbing pads a lot... and that means flags. Inside you can hold all day long so long as you do not rip/pull defender down. We have a LT that is great at it.
Three points I made in my write up and one exact opposite.
I saw hands outside grabbing pads a lot... and that means flags. Inside you can hold all day long so long as you do not rip/pull defender down. We have a LT that is great at it.
Yep and the 2 sources I used projected Drango as an OG so that's where I'm picturing his niche here moving forward.
If he ever has to play Tackle my guess is it would be RT where Schwartz wasn't always comfortable in pass pro out there especially early on. Kevin Shaffer wasn't ever really an ideal pass protector who ended up having a good season for us at RT in 2007. Then there was Ryan Tucker before that who struggled in pass pro at RT and was later kicked inside to play RG.
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Three points I made in my write up and one exact opposite.
I saw hands outside grabbing pads a lot... and that means flags. Inside you can hold all day long so long as you do not rip/pull defender down. We have a LT that is great at it.
Yep and the 2 sources I used projected Drango as an OG so that's where I'm picturing his niche here moving forward.
If he ever has to play Tackle my guess is it would be RT where Schwartz wasn't always comfortable in pass pro out there especially early on. Kevin Shaffer wasn't ever really an ideal pass protector who ended up having a good season for us at RT in 2007. Then there was Ryan Tucker before that who struggled in pass pro at RT and was later kicked inside to play RG.
Yep and the 2 sources I used projected Drango as an OG so that's where I'm picturing his niche here moving forward.
Just to be sure I was clear... I was talking about inside vs. outside hand position, not OL slot.
Joe T holds as much as any LT in the game, but he does it inside... kind of a reverse horse collar. He can because of how well he moves his feet.
Drango on the other hand grabs the outside of the pads of his opposite. He needed to in college to compensate for his lack of movement.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Hold up on that sequoia there Flug. Don't see us running the Art Briles veer, but with Drango lined up as LT remember he had a G that would sometimes shift to Drango's left as TE. LaQuan McGowan, he was 6'7 410lbs. of Sequoia. We got some wood on OL but nothing like this. Drango has had back issues(wonder why) & pad level is part of it..he needs coached up & a desire to be a pro with work..
Agree... I came away unimpressed by Drango's LT work... and don't remember a hint of the kick-step praised in the OP.
http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=40341&view=findpost&p=603049
Agree... I came away unimpressed by Drango's LT work... and don't remember a hint of the kick-step praised in the OP.
http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=40341&view=findpost&p=603049
In your link you clarified you didn't watch any of his 2015 starts as a senior and only saw film of him vrs OU & MSU. Drango started 48 games and I'm sure he's not the only pro prospect with a kick slide or 2 he'd like to forget about against Shilique Calhoun. I quoted the opinion of someone paid to summarize more than 5% of his work for a draft magazine.
If I only watched Peyton Manning play twice against the Florida Gators - it's not enough information for me to correct the people paid to summarize a much bigger percentage of his body of work.
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Yep and the 2 sources I used projected Drango as an OG so that's where I'm picturing his niche here moving forward.
Just to be sure I was clear... I was talking about inside vs. outside hand position, not OL slot.
Joe T holds as much as any LT in the game, but he does it inside... kind of a reverse horse collar. He can because of how well he moves his feet.
Drango on the other hand grabs the outside of the pads of his opposite. He needed to in college to compensate for his lack of movement.
Just to be sure I was clear... I was talking about inside vs. outside hand position, not OL slot.
Joe T holds as much as any LT in the game, but he does it inside... kind of a reverse horse collar. He can because of how well he moves his feet.
Drango on the other hand grabs the outside of the pads of his opposite. He needed to in college to compensate for his lack of movement.
Read that and agreed with it.
However, even before you pointed that out - I also typed one of his weaknesses listed from Athlon Sports NFL Draft is "lacks the ideal arm length" which also differentiates him from Joe Thomas. In fact, I also typed the Summary from the same magazine which began with: "Two-time All-American with 48 career starts for the Bears. May be best suited for guard in the NFL considering how he moves and his lack of ideal length." This is where the OL slot became applicable/re-applicable. I had him at OG in the very first sentence of this thread.
I was giving you a lot more credit than feeling like I needed to explain at guard, a lot of the space and speed concerns that left tackles have to deal with gets eliminated.
All that said, the guy was a 2 time All American at Left Tackle in a pass happy offense and twice named the Big 12 Offensive Lineman of the Year (as well as a unanimous All Big 12 selection 3 years in a row) so I'm guessing he learned some tricks of the trade along the way. Depending on what type of veterans are available to him early on - he'll learn even more tricks. Wing spans are very important especially on the edge because the smaller spans are more vulnerable to the swim/olay moves as well as the rip moves.
I remember the very first pre-season game Joe Thomas played in. It was the only time I ever remembered seeing him flagged twice for holding in 1 game. I also remember the value of having a calming veteran influence of a savvy Eric Steinbach next to him to help expedite the learning curve very early on. Same held true for Alex Mack shortly thereafter.
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When applying analytics to football it's important to maintain context.
(Something PFF has failed to do at times) Baylor, after their QB injury went to a run first team with quick, high percentage passes to supplement the running game.
Take that In comparison to a tackle like Conklin that plays in a more pro style offense with a more downfield passing game and we find that numbers don't always quantify performance.
When applying analytics to football it's important to maintain context.
(Something PFF has failed to do at times) Baylor, after their QB injury went to a run first team with quick, high percentage passes to supplement the running game.
Take that In comparison to a tackle like Conklin that plays in a more pro style offense with a more downfield passing game and we find that numbers don't always quantify performance.
Russell went down in game 7 and IIRC the offense was no more run happy with Stidham. Also, I looked at PFF's rankings every week and Drango was near the top throughout the year.
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football wood factor from balsa to sequoia:
In Our View: Drango was a four-year starter at left tackle for the Bears,
Hold up on that sequoia there Flug. Don't see us running the Art Briles veer, but with Drango lined up as LT remember he had a G that would sometimes shift to Drango's left as TE. LaQuan McGowan, he was 6'7 410lbs. of Sequoia. We got some wood on OL but nothing like this. Drango has had back issues(wonder why) & pad level is part of it..he needs coached up & a desire to be a pro with work..
Hold up on that sequoia there Flug. Don't see us running the Art Briles veer, but with Drango lined up as LT remember he had a G that would sometimes shift to Drango's left as TE. LaQuan McGowan, he was 6'7 410lbs. of Sequoia. We got some wood on OL but nothing like this. Drango has had back issues(wonder why) & pad level is part of it..he needs coached up & a desire to be a pro with work..
And the Ratbirds occasionally ran an unbalanced line putting another Offensive Tackle outside of Ogden at TE. I never took that to mean they thought Ogden sucked.
I understand your concern about the back Gumby because Drango had back surgery in November 2013. You mentioned desire and work - how did he respond to the back surgery? 2 consecutive Big 12 Offensive Lineman of the Year awards followed and he also made 2 All American teams.
I think the injury plus the reality he'll play Guard put him on our door step in round 5. I think it's good pick for us. Heading into this draft, I wasn't really cozy with our Center position which has me thinking Greco will be a solution there at some point opening opportunity for a guy like this.
If we look around at college football today - how many teams are running a traditional NFL pass offense from a stationary pocket with cup protection? This isn't exclusive to Art Briles by any means so a lot of offensive lineman are being drafted with NFL learning curves ahead. We drafted another lineman from Auburn who's an intriguing prospect but his Head Coach Gus Malzon was a high school football coach before he coached at Arkansas State for a cup of coffee who still uses much of his high school playbook at Auburn. Learning curve ahead for Coleman? You bet. It shouldn't change how intriguing Coleman is to our future though. Same applies to Drango.
This draft, we added picks but maintained a willingness to roll the dice on guys that have been ill/injured, overcame injury, and/or played through injury. Scooby Wright, Shon Coleman, Spencer Drango, Seth DeValve, and Derrick Kindred that made 3rd team all conference playing though a broken collar bone. Our FO also signed RG3 at the NFL version of garage sale prices. It's a "nobody's betting on you but us" way of lighting fannies while we're potentially stealing better values than we have to pay out on.
The movie Moneyball was a lot like this. Oakland took guys with imperfections many others teams wouldn't look at or snagged guys post injury that had to learn a new position like first base. For example, there was a pitcher with an awkward side arm delivery with a release about 2 feet off the ground many teams thought was more of a candidate for Tommy John Surgery. Oakland rolled the dice and came up big. There was also David "Give Me Liberty Or" Just-ass who was kind of their version of RG3 in the sense the Yankees were still playing half his salary which was 3.5 million $ with Oakland only matching that like they bought him at a garage sale. The rest of the league looked at Justice much like the NFL looked at RG3 prior to Cleveland signing him, the best days are in the rear view mirror. Oakland was the only team that thought yeah but now we can pay him non-risk wages and it's up to us whether or not we want to tap what he has or not. They did. I think Hue knows he's not going to use the Daniel Snyder approach of "why don't we just Dr Frankenstein his wiring and presto up a pocket passer?" I'm thinking Hue will use more of the type of stuff Joe Gibbs once used for his 6'0" former Heisman Trophy winner - Joe Theisman. He'll tap the deep ball with 5-7 step drops; but he'll also bootleg him outside of the pocket for waggle passes that doesn't use traditional cup protections. Kyle Shannahan actually used a lot of bootleg passes for Hoyer outside of pocket just 1 year after major knee construction en route to our 7-4 start.
Moneyball/Analytics looks at what is key to winning and develops a formula for how you can get it done guiding the front office directly to what it needs to add. For example, it's a passing era so what's important? Scoring TDs and moving the chains at the WR position as well as hurrying passers/sacking them. What did our front office prioritize? WRs and edge rushers. Our first WR drafted scored 33 TDs in the last 2 years, Higgins scored 25 TDs (but had 17 TDs, 18.2 ypc, 1,750 yds in 2014 when McElwain was the HC and had an experienced QB that got drafted in 2015). Our first 2 edge rushers were #1 and #2 in sacks in 2015. Does anyone remember how many close games or second half leads/knotted scores we lost in 2014? Outside of Josh Gordon, the effort was there - the play makers were not. It was easy for me to make sense of what our FO did this draft.
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When applying analytics to football it's important to maintain context.
(Something PFF has failed to do at times) Baylor, after their QB injury went to a run first team with quick, high percentage passes to supplement the running game.
Take that In comparison to a tackle like Conklin that plays in a more pro style offense with a more downfield passing game and we find that numbers don't always quantify performance.
Russell went down in game 7 and IIRC the offense was no more run happy with Stidham. Also, I looked at PFF's rankings every week and Drango was near the top throughout the year.
Russell went down in game 7 and IIRC the offense was no more run happy with Stidham. Also, I looked at PFF's rankings every week and Drango was near the top throughout the year.
That still doesn't negate my point on how Baylors passing game helps take a great deal of pressure off of their oline.
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Russell went down in game 7 and IIRC the offense was no more run happy with Stidham. Also, I looked at PFF's rankings every week and Drango was near the top throughout the year.
That still doesn't negate my point on how Baylors passing game helps take a great deal of pressure off of their oline.
That still doesn't negate my point on how Baylors passing game helps take a great deal of pressure off of their oline.
Yes and no T. There were games Baylor went to #3 on the depth chart at QB, which put their oline in charge of protecting a lot of 3rd and 10 pass situations with unreliable accuracy from the passer. In spite of it, I believe they ended up ranked #1 in the country in points scored and yardage diluted by backup QBs for 5-6 games.
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If it's a quick passing play where the OL doesn't have to do anything, that usually results in a 0 (neutral) grade for them. So it can actually hurt as they get less opportunities to build on the grade.
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If it's a quick passing play where the OL doesn't have to do anything, that usually results in a 0 (neutral) grade for them. So it can actually hurt as they get less opportunities to build on the grade.
If it's a quick passing play where the OL doesn't have to do anything, that usually results in a 0 (neutral) grade for them. So it can actually hurt as they get less opportunities to build on the grade.
... or help by limiting grades.
But in either case that is the way to grade.
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I don't think it's possible to know a damn thing about the OL until the pads come on. Our radio guys brought up the fact that training camp has been reduced to basically a trip to the spa now, and without things like two-a-days and back-to-back padded practices, many players aren't getting the reps they need to improve their skills.
We have a new coach, so there won't be any loyalty to players previously picked by other regimes. The best guy is going to play, so if Drango can get it done, we're going to see him. On a side note, it was nice to hear (from radio show) that Cam Erving looked "natural" at the center position, and he really appeared to grasp the offense and protection schemes. AGAIN, we won't know a damn thing until the bullets start flying for real, but it sure is nice to hear that our first round pick doesn't look lost. He's also improved his strength and reportedly has worked "tirelessly on his technique". In the back of my mind, I see the Matthews kid as making some noise. It will definitely be a position to watch in camp and the preseason games.
At any rate, Drango hopefully can provide some good depth, even if he doesn't crack the starting lineup (which I doubt he will). OL injuries happen to every team, so let's hope the kid can come in and provide some stability.
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