Will McCown be given the chance to beat out RG III?
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I understand the analogy you are using but I see RG3 a lot smarter than you give him credit.VesnaKociper said:
RG 3 is Black Tarkenton. He was raised and trained to be a run-first QB. His entire football life. While he is certainly light-speed compared to me and you, his injuries were DIRECTLY to his most important weapons, which were impotent to begin with, his legs. Losing a step for a guy like Kosar, Marino or Manning is not a big deal. Those guys made their living with their brains and their are. Black Tarkenton never had those skills. He ran around like a chicken with his head cutoff making athletic plays. He got to the pros and his speed didn't scare anyone. Many LBs and DL were just as fast and they ran him down and fucked him up.
There is no upside to a black Tarkenton. Just like a young rapper pulled over for a routine traffic ticket, at the first sign of trouble, the dumb bastard is going to take off running, and he WILL again get destroyed physically.
Black Tarkenton III has had his day. He will never be as good as he was, again. And even that, was not very good.
Like I stated before all the excuses are out the window with him now and it's put up or shut up right now. It's been four years time to put his big boy pants on.
A bit off topic..what you say about RG3 fits Kaepernick the most. I think RG3 will be somewhat of a Russel Wilson. However you think you can agree that you hope that you're wrong about RG3.
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i too was disappointed that we didn't get our QB at the top of this draft. We were right there...sitting pretty.
Then the Rams traded to #1 and I thought, 'well, that increases the odds that we trade out of there on draft day'
On draft day I was still holding hope that we might finish the day with Lynch.
I wanted our QB issue to go away.
I've made peace with the fact that the Geek Squad did not value the top of this draft's QB's.
They're entitled to that opinion. But OTHER NFL teams valued Goff, Wentz & Lynch enough to trade up and get them.
Their decision will be measured as time goes by.
Right now we have Kessler to groom as the future, if RG3 isn't. (and McCown to bridge the gap, I guess)
It is what it is. It's what we've got to work with, so now we have to give it time to bake.
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VesnaKociper said:
To have a team with no QB, then go to the draft with the #2 and #32 picks, and not come away with a QB, preferring to let two pieces of shit battle it out, is beyond stupid. It has to be the dumbest thing Cleveland sports has ever seen. Hey, I understand the philosophy of getting some stop gap players, I get it. ....... IF your team is already flush. But the Browns have nothing. There is a reason losing teams get the higher draft picks, it is so that they can add the better players and become competitive.
It's called a 2 part rebuild. 14 drafted, 6 FA's & a bunch of UDFA in 2016 with no pads on yet. Here's 2017- 12 more picks- 1st-ours & Philly. 2nd-ours & Tenn. 3rd-ours. 4th-Mack,Schwartz & Gipson comp. 5th-own & Benji comp. 6th-own. 7th from Colts. Comps. will be tradeable in 17 I believe?(your favorite)
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Why is it ok for a qb to have growing pains and injuries except for RG3?
Why is it ok for a qb to have a bad season but not RG3?
Why is it ok to sign a vet qb that has been to the playoffs but not RG3?
You can thank Jay Gruden for giving up on RG3. We have him now without any excuses.
One Post From the Truth said:
Why is it ok for a qb to have growing pains and injuries except for RG3?
Why is it ok for a qb to have a bad season but not RG3?
Why is it ok to sign a vet qb that has been to the playoffs but not RG3?
You can thank Jay Gruden for giving up on RG3. We have him now without any excuses.
Well done One!
The only thing I'll slightly challenge is who we can thank for RG3's departure. Part of it is RG3's immaturity which won't be bad in the long term if a more humble QB can be coached up into what he's capable of. Another part of it was RG3's durability.
There was an article that summarized Mike Shanahan's feelings about what unfolded. Cliff notes version, Daniel Snyder thought all he had to do was re-wire RG3 to be a stationary pocket passer where RG3 went from a playoff and rookie of the year caliber performer to no longer welcome, along with Mike Shanahan. Snyder even made RG3 call a meeting with his coaching staff to inform them of the changes he allegedly wanted (which of course Shanahan knew were the ones Snyder wanted).
Joe Theisman wasn't wired to be a 6'0" stationary pocket passer any more than RG3. Therefore, he did a lot of bootleg (out-of-pocket) waggle passes under Joe Gibbs. In fact, Theisman was originally drafted by the Miami Dolphins but like other 6' QBs that went on to frequent Pro Bowls and NFL Playoffs such as Warren Moon and Jeff Garcia - he would need the CFL experience prior to the right system match for skill set. Gibbs mixed in some 5-7 step drops in some occasional cup protections upfront with deep passes to the post or flag. I think that was done with RG3 as well. Another good thing for the former 6' Heisman Trophy winners was a running game featuring John Riggins or Alfred Morris. You can't set up good play-action waggle passes without that strong running game.
I think Connor Shaw and RG3 bring us skill-sets for a good out of pocket passing game. My biggest worry with both is durability. Josh McCown proved to be a very reliable QB here but he also fell victim to durability issues (although he could have avoided pretending he was the next Larry Csonka at the goal line vrs the Jets). I don't know enough about Kessler to comment. I thought Austin Davis had the time management skills of Rain Man. He was operating the offense on "10 minutes to Wopner" time when we had only 30 seconds to go in the half or game. I liked his arm and reading how studious he was about the game but I think we collided with reasons why he was unemployed.
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Ok good. Check again with mom if accordion was ever stolen by one of her dates. Good God you may need blood tested. A Lynch fan with a accordion back ground at this point is not good..Good Luck to you & don't move to Memphis
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Why is it ok for a qb to have growing pains and injuries except for RG3?
Why is it ok for a qb to have a bad season but not RG3?
Why is it ok to sign a vet qb that has been to the playoffs but not RG3?
You can thank Jay Gruden for giving up on RG3. We have him now without any excuses.
"One said:
Why is it ok for a qb to have growing pains and injuries except for RG3?
Why is it ok for a qb to have a bad season but not RG3?
Why is it ok to sign a vet qb that has been to the playoffs but not RG3?
You can thank Jay Gruden for giving up on RG3. We have him now without any excuses.
Conversely why give RG3 the benefit of the doubt when no other quarterback gets it? The reason people, at least I, are leery of the guy is the Redskins overpaid to get him and it was a failure. The biggest reason for that had been his shitty attitude and for that reason it's a little bit harder to work up the sympathy. Just like you-know-who.
Any misgivings are his to dispel and he does that by playing well under the system he's asked to play. The reason I don't think we'll see that much running is that it heightens the risk of injury and previous injury has probably made that less of a factor.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
(plus I'm still not understanding the notion that Connor Shaw is the savior)
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
I've made peace with the fact that the Geek Squad did not value the top of this draft's QB's. Orion
*******************************************************
That's a false conclusion, I think. They didn't not value them - the simple fact is, they couldn't afford
to take one of them, with all the needs they had to fill as far as their restructuring, to a point, their roster.
One star qb, either one of the top two, is never worth the players they drafted with all those extra picks.
If all the Browns needed was the bigtime qb, of course they would have drafted the qb.
It's a team game, and they needed to rebuild the Browns into a team. With those picks they got the most
explosive wr in the draft, other wr's, well, the whole bunch of players who have the talent and character and
work ethic to fit into what the Browns are going to be - a competitive kick ass bunch of Browns who
will not be put into bad schemes and wrong assignments for their talents...etc, etc etc.
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(plus I'm still not understanding the notion that Connor Shaw is the savior)
WSS
(plus I'm still not understanding the notion that Connor Shaw is the savior)
WSS
Savior? If that's aimed at me Steve - I'll clarify where I'm coming from. I don't project him as a savior as much as I welcome/refuse to count out a QB that can sport a 25 TD to 1 INT ratio in his final year at SC in the SEC. Most of Spurrier's former QBs have been asked to read defenses at warped behind suspect numbers up front and pass pro schemes that put split second decisions on center stage in a conference often praised for team speed on defense. He's the ONLY QB at SC that put up an incredible ratio like that while his team went 10-2.
What other things do I like? He seemed like he knew our offense a lot better than Manziel did when they were both rookies. Not only that, the most underrated intangible he showed me was an ability to get out of the pocket and run for a first down if that was handed to him.
The last time we traded a HOF WR like Paul Warfield so we could draft a football messiah at the 3rd pick overall - we ended up with Mike Phipps. Long story short, it's a damn good thing nobody expected Brian Sipe to be anybody's football savior prior to seeing him become the only League MVP I've witnessed at our QB since color television began.
I don't have a big enough body of work to tell me Shaw = Sipe. That said, I kind of liked his starting point in coherence with what separated him from all the other QBs Spurrier had at SC. One time Kurt Warner was asked HOW could Arena Football possibly prepare you for the NFL? He said it trained him to understand the importance of getting rid of the ball quickly especially when numbers up front weren't always favorable. That's what I liked about Shaw's training at SC in an offense that treats its QBs like Hollywood stunt men. The difference between him and a Danny Weurffel is he had the physical and mental ability to escape the pocket on time. That showed up in some of his playing time in the preseason and in the regular season short window he got. Last but not least, I think he's got plenty of time to improve his arm strength the way Andy Dalton has since he entered the NFL.
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Had the Rams opted for Wentz, I believe our draft would have looked much different.
So you think that Sashi had spoken to the Rams and knew that they were taking Goff. ('cuz we'd already traded out of #2 prior to draft day)
It makes sense because we traded out of #2 after the Rams traded up to #1.
So you think that Sashi had spoken to the Rams and knew that they were taking Goff. ('cuz we'd already traded out of #2 prior to draft day)
It makes sense because we traded out of #2 after the Rams traded up to #1.
Sashi knew... He said so in an interview.
VesnaKociper said:
Steve, he's Black Tarkenton. It doesn't matter what offense he plays in, He is a run first QB.
Why does this horse-shit statement live on? Thought it was killed when we drafted JM...
Sir Francis was not a "running QB". He was a scrambling QB. He ran to buy time to throw as he played behind some of the worst OLs in the league. (Expansion Vikings and rebuilding NYGs)
I've made peace with the fact that the Geek Squad did not value the top of this draft's QB's. Orion
*******************************************************
That's a false conclusion, I think. They didn't not value them - the simple fact is, they couldn't afford
to take one of them, with all the needs they had to fill as far as their restructuring, to a point, their roster.
Don't not not not look now... but that's the definition of a "value" analysis.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Gee whiz Tommy!
Sure, I guess it's possible that your third-string UFA winds up being the MVP of the league.
I just mentioned it since you were the most recent commenter on the kid Kama even though he gets a good deal of airtime around here.
And it doesn't hurt to Hope. We can also hope that RG3 is better and less of an asshole than before and the Josh McCown finally breaks through.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
"One said:
Why is it ok for a qb to have growing pains and injuries except for RG3?
Why is it ok for a qb to have a bad season but not RG3?
Why is it ok to sign a vet qb that has been to the playoffs but not RG3?
You can thank Jay Gruden for giving up on RG3. We have him now without any excuses.
Conversely why give RG3 the benefit of the doubt when no other quarterback gets it? The reason people, at least I, are leery of the guy is the Redskins overpaid to get him and it was a failure. The biggest reason for that had been his shitty attitude and for that reason it's a little bit harder to work up the sympathy. Just like you-know-who.
Any misgivings are his to dispel and he does that by playing well under the system he's asked to play. The reason I don't think we'll see that much running is that it heightens the risk of injury and previous injury has probably made that less of a factor.
WSS
No other qb gets it? Humm..Conversely why give RG3 the benefit of the doubt when no other quarterback gets it? The reason people, at least I, are leery of the guy is the Redskins overpaid to get him and it was a failure. The biggest reason for that had been his shitty attitude and for that reason it's a little bit harder to work up the sympathy. Just like you-know-who.
Any misgivings are his to dispel and he does that by playing well under the system he's asked to play. The reason I don't think we'll see that much running is that it heightens the risk of injury and previous injury has probably made that less of a factor.
WSS
How about McCown.
I'm also going to add Goff and Wentz to the list before it happens because you know they're too young, don't know the systems because they're rookies and that will be ok. Either two could crap on the field this season and it would be just hunky dory.
Now if RG3 were already on the roster and Hue came in and signed McCown I'd be worried.
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1-15 or 0-16, bank it.
"You planning on having a long relationship with that glass or are you going to drink it? Drink up, man. Maybe we can get another.” - Janis Joplin, 1970. -
Gee whiz Tommy!
Sure, I guess it's possible that your third-string UFA winds up being the MVP of the league.
I just mentioned it since you were the most recent commenter on the kid Kama even though he gets a good deal of airtime around here.
And it doesn't hurt to Hope. We can also hope that RG3 is better and less of an asshole than before and the Josh McCown finally breaks through.
WSS
Gee whiz Tommy!
Sure, I guess it's possible that your third-string UFA winds up being the MVP of the league.
I just mentioned it since you were the most recent commenter on the kid Kama even though he gets a good deal of airtime around here.
And it doesn't hurt to Hope. We can also hope that RG3 is better and less of an asshole than before and the Josh McCown finally breaks through.
WSS
Let's put this back into context. I only wrote about why I feel Shaw has a future here.
It's okay if you don't like Connor Shaw. I'm sure you won't be the only one that feels that way.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
1-15 or 0-16, bank it.
Make a bet?1-15 or 0-16, bank it.
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VesnaKociper said:
<<Sir Francis was not a "running QB". He was a scrambling QB. He ran to buy time to throw as he played behind some of the worst OLs in the league. (Expansion Vikings and rebuilding NYGs)>>
Fran Tarkenton was a horse cock. Tarkenton could have had a cherry-picker for his offensive line and he would have abandoned the pocket and ran around like a shitting ostrich. Like RG3, Like Cam Newton, Like Queerdell Stewart............... he held on to the fucking ball too long and ran around with his nutsack hanging out to save his ass. NO DBs can cover recievers when the asshole QB is fucking every other pass play up.
Fran Tarkenton was shit. RG3 and Cam Newton are shit.
Ben Roethlisberger.................. the best that ever lived about using his feet, size, power and balance, to buy more time......Big Ben is the classic pass first, run to buy time QB. Sir Francis? Yeah, maybe at an underground BDSM party for queers he is "Sir". As a QB, he sucked big dick.
Am guessing here that Roger Staubach & Troy Aikman were somehow in the classic. The Shitting White Ostrich & his 7 White Dwarfs?
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Gee whiz Tommy!
Sure, I guess it's possible that your third-string UFA winds up being the MVP of the league.
I just mentioned it since you were the most recent commenter on the kid Kama even though he gets a good deal of airtime around here.
And it doesn't hurt to Hope. We can also hope that RG3 is better and less of an asshole than before and the Josh McCown finally breaks through.
WSS
Let's put this back into context. I only wrote about why I feel Shaw has a future here.
It's okay if you don't like Connor Shaw. I'm sure you won't be the only one that feels that way.
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No other qb gets it? Humm..Conversely why give RG3 the benefit of the doubt when no other quarterback gets it? The reason people, at least I, are leery of the guy is the Redskins overpaid to get him and it was a failure. The biggest reason for that had been his shitty attitude and for that reason it's a little bit harder to work up the sympathy. Just like you-know-who.
Any misgivings are his to dispel and he does that by playing well under the system he's asked to play. The reason I don't think we'll see that much running is that it heightens the risk of injury and previous injury has probably made that less of a factor.
WSS
How about McCown.
I'm also going to add Goff and Wentz to the list before it happens because you know they're too young, don't know the systems because they're rookies and that will be ok. Either two could crap on the field this season and it would be just hunky dory.
Now if RG3 were already on the roster and Hue came in and signed McCown I'd be worried.
"One said:
No other qb gets it? Humm..
How about McCown.
I'm also going to add Goff and Wentz to the list before it happens because you know they're too young, don't know the systems because they're rookies and that will be ok. Either two could crap on the field this season and it would be just hunky dory.
Now if RG3 were already on the roster and Hue came in and signed McCown I'd be worried.
How does Josh McCown get the benefit of the doubt? He gets shit on here all the time. Of course he's a hard guy to hate because he's always had a great attitude and worked hard unlike your buddy RG3.
Or in all honesty my buddy Johnny.
By the way I don't give a rat's ass about Goff or Wentz but if they played here yes I would probably cut them some slack the first year or two.
They don't play here though and I hope they suck just so I don't have to listen to people crying and whining about not drafting them.
WSS
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"One said:
No other qb gets it? Humm..
How about McCown.
I'm also going to add Goff and Wentz to the list before it happens because you know they're too young, don't know the systems because they're rookies and that will be ok. Either two could crap on the field this season and it would be just hunky dory.
Now if RG3 were already on the roster and Hue came in and signed McCown I'd be worried.
How does Josh McCown get the benefit of the doubt? He gets shit on here all the time. Of course he's a hard guy to hate because he's always had a great attitude and worked hard unlike your buddy RG3.
Or in all honesty my buddy Johnny.
By the way I don't give a rat's ass about Goff or Wentz but if they played here yes I would probably cut them some slack the first year or two.
They don't play here though and I hope they suck just so I don't have to listen to people crying and whining about not drafting them.
WSS
Time will tell Steve. Hide and watch.How does Josh McCown get the benefit of the doubt? He gets shit on here all the time. Of course he's a hard guy to hate because he's always had a great attitude and worked hard unlike your buddy RG3.
Or in all honesty my buddy Johnny.
By the way I don't give a rat's ass about Goff or Wentz but if they played here yes I would probably cut them some slack the first year or two.
They don't play here though and I hope they suck just so I don't have to listen to people crying and whining about not drafting them.
WSS
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Gee whiz Tommy!
Sure, I guess it's possible that your third-string UFA winds up being the MVP of the league.
I just mentioned it since you were the most recent commenter on the kid Kama even though he gets a good deal of airtime around here.
And it doesn't hurt to Hope. We can also hope that RG3 is better and less of an asshole than before and the Josh McCown finally breaks through.
WSS
Let's put this back into context. I only wrote about why I feel Shaw has a future here.
It's okay if you don't like Connor Shaw. I'm sure you won't be the only one that feels that way.
Let's put this back into context. I only wrote about why I feel Shaw has a future here.
It's okay if you don't like Connor Shaw. I'm sure you won't be the only one that feels that way.
2014--Season finale against Ravens finished game despite dislocated finger & bruised kidney..2015--Has reconstruction surgery on broken Thumb on throwing hand in preseason game with Skins. 2016--Could be the return of Drago Jr. returns.. Got to root for this guy. Later Austin 'Powers' Davis Return
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