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Did the New FO Find Enough Play Makers?

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  • simple answer to your question:

    NO

  • gftChrisG gftChris

    @tour2ma said:

    Should any of our recent "disappointments" contribute, they would just be icing on the cake.

    Our Class of 2016, this org's Class of 2016, has to be the wellspring of this season's positives.

    Classes of '15, 16' and '17 - Shelton, Erving, Orchard, Johnson all have the potential to be big contributors to the team, along with Coleman/Coleman, Ogbah, Nassib, Schobert. Here's to the Eagles going 0-16 and us getting the next great QB hope.

    @gftchris said:

    Shelton, Erving, Orchard, Johnson all have the potential to be big contributors to the team...

    True, yet matters less as they were inherited. Should they develop, then that says our staff may be solid... but Erving was the only obvious bust of the four you listed.

    That's why for me the real test is the rookie crop. We can have an all-world staff, but without a solid FO to feed them talent year after year, it won't matter.

    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
  • OrionO Orion

    @flugel said:

    Did the New FO Find Enough Play Makers?

    ...dunno....we've gotta see them perform in pre-season.

    They went after players that were productive in college. That's a concept! Hard working, decent charactered, productive players.

    Lets give that a shot and see how many of the 14 has their college production translate to the NFL.

    (I enjoy reading your posts)

    @orion said:

    ...dunno....we've gotta see them perform in pre-season.

    They went after players that were productive in college. That's a concept! Hard working, decent charactered, productive players.

    Lets give that a shot and see how many of the 14 has their college production translate to the NFL.

    (I enjoy reading your posts)

    Thanks Orion!

    I like your point about what the front office looked for in the horse they are betting on. Some of the guys also had tested well in the workouts/combines in the assessments measuring explosion like the jumps.

    In comparison, Farmer didn't even care enough to consider what Gilbert's college coaching staff thought of his work ethic and passion for the game. How much did that end up sucking for us? Corners are a last tier of defense so it's a pretty bad place to be a bad tackler. It's also a bad place for a guy who isn't open to coaching.

    I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!"

  • courtney brown:

    Brown attended Pennsylvania State University, where he played for coach Joe Paterno's Penn State Nittany Lions football team from 1996 to 2000. At Penn State, he was teammates with LaVar Arrington and Brandon Short. As senior in 1999, he was a first-team All-Big Ten selection, and was recognized as a consensus first-team All-American.[2] Brown earned the Big Ten Defensive Player of the Year and Defensive Linemen of the Year honors in his senior year. He was also a finalist for three national awards: Bronko Nagurski Trophy, Chuck Bednarik Award and Lombardi Award. He finished his college career with a NCAA record-breaking 33 quarterback sacks and 70 tackles for a loss.

    trent richardson:

    By March 2012, Richardson was widely projected to be a top six draft choice,[34][35][36] with the Cleveland Browns, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, and St. Louis Rams rumored to be most interested in selecting him.[37][38] Former Colts vice chairman Bill Polian called him one of the "three sure-thing players" in the 2012 draft.[39]

    johnny manziel:

    In January 2014, Manziel announced that he would forgo his junior season and enter the 2014 NFL Draft.[45] He was projected to be a first-round pick, and as of January 15, 2014, his draft stock was reported to be rising by a consensus of experts who had him pegged as a top-5 pick.[46] Manziel elected to throw during Texas A&M's Pro Day on March 27, 2014, instead of during the NFL Combine. During his pro day, Manziel completed 64 of 66 passes to six different receivers. His pro day performance was well received by sports journalists.[47][48][49][50]

    barkevious mingo:

    Mingo attended Louisiana State University, and played for coach Les Miles' LSU Tigers football team from 2009 to 2012. He was redshirted in 2009. As a redshirt freshman in 2010, he started one of 13 games, recording 35 tackles and 3.5 sacks. As a sophomore in 2011, Mingo was a second all-SEC selection after recording 47 tackles and 8 sacks.[4] As a junior in 2012, he played in all 13 games with 10 starts, and earned second team All-SEC honors after recording 38 tackles, 8.5 tackles for a loss, and 4.5 quarterback sacks. He also led the Tigers with 12 quarterback hurries.

    sure college numbers are great. i could go on and list AT LEAST a dozen more players drafted by some FO of the browns since their reinception just to show you it all means dick. what i hate the most is that most of us fans can see the talent within some of these players but yet, due to some scheme bullshit they aren't allowed to flourish within the brown's org. perfect example is jabaal sheard. do you think belichick takes away a player's talent by restricting him to play a position that he's never played before in his short football career? having mingo or sheard drop back into pass coverage isn't just silly it's fucking maddening. some times the coach needs to drop his clipboard and tell a guy "go get him!" maybe hue is that guy.....don't know. but just cuz we got some guys who had/have great numbers somewhere else doesn't mean we should all break out the happy dance.

    been there. done that.

    tom. love your enthusiasm brother. maybe a shot of that southern styled hooch might bring me around if i get a chance to roll thru tenn later for the tailgate and meet you droogs. until then.....

    "me, i'm just a lawnmower. you can tell me by the way i walk."

    DieHardBrownsFanD FlugelF 2 Replies
    👍
  • miktoxicM miktoxic

    courtney brown:

    Brown attended Pennsylvania State University, where he played for coach Joe Paterno's Penn State Nittany Lions football team from 1996 to 2000. At Penn State, he was teammates with LaVar Arrington and Brandon Short. As senior in 1999, he was a first-team All-Big Ten selection, and was recognized as a consensus first-team All-American.[2] Brown earned the Big Ten Defensive Player of the Year and Defensive Linemen of the Year honors in his senior year. He was also a finalist for three national awards: Bronko Nagurski Trophy, Chuck Bednarik Award and Lombardi Award. He finished his college career with a NCAA record-breaking 33 quarterback sacks and 70 tackles for a loss.

    trent richardson:

    By March 2012, Richardson was widely projected to be a top six draft choice,[34][35][36] with the Cleveland Browns, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, and St. Louis Rams rumored to be most interested in selecting him.[37][38] Former Colts vice chairman Bill Polian called him one of the "three sure-thing players" in the 2012 draft.[39]

    johnny manziel:

    In January 2014, Manziel announced that he would forgo his junior season and enter the 2014 NFL Draft.[45] He was projected to be a first-round pick, and as of January 15, 2014, his draft stock was reported to be rising by a consensus of experts who had him pegged as a top-5 pick.[46] Manziel elected to throw during Texas A&M's Pro Day on March 27, 2014, instead of during the NFL Combine. During his pro day, Manziel completed 64 of 66 passes to six different receivers. His pro day performance was well received by sports journalists.[47][48][49][50]

    barkevious mingo:

    Mingo attended Louisiana State University, and played for coach Les Miles' LSU Tigers football team from 2009 to 2012. He was redshirted in 2009. As a redshirt freshman in 2010, he started one of 13 games, recording 35 tackles and 3.5 sacks. As a sophomore in 2011, Mingo was a second all-SEC selection after recording 47 tackles and 8 sacks.[4] As a junior in 2012, he played in all 13 games with 10 starts, and earned second team All-SEC honors after recording 38 tackles, 8.5 tackles for a loss, and 4.5 quarterback sacks. He also led the Tigers with 12 quarterback hurries.

    sure college numbers are great. i could go on and list AT LEAST a dozen more players drafted by some FO of the browns since their reinception just to show you it all means dick. what i hate the most is that most of us fans can see the talent within some of these players but yet, due to some scheme bullshit they aren't allowed to flourish within the brown's org. perfect example is jabaal sheard. do you think belichick takes away a player's talent by restricting him to play a position that he's never played before in his short football career? having mingo or sheard drop back into pass coverage isn't just silly it's fucking maddening. some times the coach needs to drop his clipboard and tell a guy "go get him!" maybe hue is that guy.....don't know. but just cuz we got some guys who had/have great numbers somewhere else doesn't mean we should all break out the happy dance.

    been there. done that.

    tom. love your enthusiasm brother. maybe a shot of that southern styled hooch might bring me around if i get a chance to roll thru tenn later for the tailgate and meet you droogs. until then.....

    "me, i'm just a lawnmower. you can tell me by the way i walk."

    @miktoxic said:

    courtney brown:

    Brown attended Pennsylvania State University, where he played for coach Joe Paterno's Penn State Nittany Lions football team from 1996 to 2000. At Penn State, he was teammates with LaVar Arrington and Brandon Short. As senior in 1999, he was a first-team All-Big Ten selection, and was recognized as a consensus first-team All-American.[2] Brown earned the Big Ten Defensive Player of the Year and Defensive Linemen of the Year honors in his senior year. He was also a finalist for three national awards: Bronko Nagurski Trophy, Chuck Bednarik Award and Lombardi Award. He finished his college career with a NCAA record-breaking 33 quarterback sacks and 70 tackles for a loss.

    trent richardson:

    By March 2012, Richardson was widely projected to be a top six draft choice,[34][35][36] with the Cleveland Browns, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, and St. Louis Rams rumored to be most interested in selecting him.[37][38] Former Colts vice chairman Bill Polian called him one of the "three sure-thing players" in the 2012 draft.[39]

    johnny manziel:

    In January 2014, Manziel announced that he would forgo his junior season and enter the 2014 NFL Draft.[45] He was projected to be a first-round pick, and as of January 15, 2014, his draft stock was reported to be rising by a consensus of experts who had him pegged as a top-5 pick.[46] Manziel elected to throw during Texas A&M's Pro Day on March 27, 2014, instead of during the NFL Combine. During his pro day, Manziel completed 64 of 66 passes to six different receivers. His pro day performance was well received by sports journalists.[47][48][49][50]

    barkevious mingo:

    Mingo attended Louisiana State University, and played for coach Les Miles' LSU Tigers football team from 2009 to 2012. He was redshirted in 2009. As a redshirt freshman in 2010, he started one of 13 games, recording 35 tackles and 3.5 sacks. As a sophomore in 2011, Mingo was a second all-SEC selection after recording 47 tackles and 8 sacks.[4] As a junior in 2012, he played in all 13 games with 10 starts, and earned second team All-SEC honors after recording 38 tackles, 8.5 tackles for a loss, and 4.5 quarterback sacks. He also led the Tigers with 12 quarterback hurries.

    sure college numbers are great. i could go on and list AT LEAST a dozen more players drafted by some FO of the browns since their reinception just to show you it all means dick. what i hate the most is that most of us fans can see the talent within some of these players but yet, due to some scheme bullshit they aren't allowed to flourish within the brown's org. perfect example is jabaal sheard. do you think belichick takes away a player's talent by restricting him to play a position that he's never played before in his short football career? having mingo or sheard drop back into pass coverage isn't just silly it's fucking maddening. some times the coach needs to drop his clipboard and tell a guy "go get him!" maybe hue is that guy.....don't know. but just cuz we got some guys who had/have great numbers somewhere else doesn't mean we should all break out the happy dance.

    been there. done that.

    tom. love your enthusiasm brother. maybe a shot of that southern styled hooch might bring me around if i get a chance to roll thru tenn later for the tailgate and meet you droogs. until then.....

    "me, i'm just a lawnmower. you can tell me by the way i walk."

    All these pics (except for Manziel) were widely applauded by most on this here board.

    "You planning on having a long relationship with that glass or are you going to drink it? Drink up, man. Maybe we can get another.” - Janis Joplin, 1970.
    FlugelF 1 Reply

  • only one i applauded was mingo. hated the others.

  • miktoxicM miktoxic

    courtney brown:

    Brown attended Pennsylvania State University, where he played for coach Joe Paterno's Penn State Nittany Lions football team from 1996 to 2000. At Penn State, he was teammates with LaVar Arrington and Brandon Short. As senior in 1999, he was a first-team All-Big Ten selection, and was recognized as a consensus first-team All-American.[2] Brown earned the Big Ten Defensive Player of the Year and Defensive Linemen of the Year honors in his senior year. He was also a finalist for three national awards: Bronko Nagurski Trophy, Chuck Bednarik Award and Lombardi Award. He finished his college career with a NCAA record-breaking 33 quarterback sacks and 70 tackles for a loss.

    trent richardson:

    By March 2012, Richardson was widely projected to be a top six draft choice,[34][35][36] with the Cleveland Browns, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, and St. Louis Rams rumored to be most interested in selecting him.[37][38] Former Colts vice chairman Bill Polian called him one of the "three sure-thing players" in the 2012 draft.[39]

    johnny manziel:

    In January 2014, Manziel announced that he would forgo his junior season and enter the 2014 NFL Draft.[45] He was projected to be a first-round pick, and as of January 15, 2014, his draft stock was reported to be rising by a consensus of experts who had him pegged as a top-5 pick.[46] Manziel elected to throw during Texas A&M's Pro Day on March 27, 2014, instead of during the NFL Combine. During his pro day, Manziel completed 64 of 66 passes to six different receivers. His pro day performance was well received by sports journalists.[47][48][49][50]

    barkevious mingo:

    Mingo attended Louisiana State University, and played for coach Les Miles' LSU Tigers football team from 2009 to 2012. He was redshirted in 2009. As a redshirt freshman in 2010, he started one of 13 games, recording 35 tackles and 3.5 sacks. As a sophomore in 2011, Mingo was a second all-SEC selection after recording 47 tackles and 8 sacks.[4] As a junior in 2012, he played in all 13 games with 10 starts, and earned second team All-SEC honors after recording 38 tackles, 8.5 tackles for a loss, and 4.5 quarterback sacks. He also led the Tigers with 12 quarterback hurries.

    sure college numbers are great. i could go on and list AT LEAST a dozen more players drafted by some FO of the browns since their reinception just to show you it all means dick. what i hate the most is that most of us fans can see the talent within some of these players but yet, due to some scheme bullshit they aren't allowed to flourish within the brown's org. perfect example is jabaal sheard. do you think belichick takes away a player's talent by restricting him to play a position that he's never played before in his short football career? having mingo or sheard drop back into pass coverage isn't just silly it's fucking maddening. some times the coach needs to drop his clipboard and tell a guy "go get him!" maybe hue is that guy.....don't know. but just cuz we got some guys who had/have great numbers somewhere else doesn't mean we should all break out the happy dance.

    been there. done that.

    tom. love your enthusiasm brother. maybe a shot of that southern styled hooch might bring me around if i get a chance to roll thru tenn later for the tailgate and meet you droogs. until then.....

    "me, i'm just a lawnmower. you can tell me by the way i walk."

    @miktoxic said:

    courtney brown:

    Brown attended Pennsylvania State University, where he played for coach Joe Paterno's Penn State Nittany Lions football team from 1996 to 2000. At Penn State, he was teammates with LaVar Arrington and Brandon Short. As senior in 1999, he was a first-team All-Big Ten selection, and was recognized as a consensus first-team All-American.[2] Brown earned the Big Ten Defensive Player of the Year and Defensive Linemen of the Year honors in his senior year. He was also a finalist for three national awards: Bronko Nagurski Trophy, Chuck Bednarik Award and Lombardi Award. He finished his college career with a NCAA record-breaking 33 quarterback sacks and 70 tackles for a loss.

    trent richardson:

    By March 2012, Richardson was widely projected to be a top six draft choice,[34][35][36] with the Cleveland Browns, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, and St. Louis Rams rumored to be most interested in selecting him.[37][38] Former Colts vice chairman Bill Polian called him one of the "three sure-thing players" in the 2012 draft.[39]

    johnny manziel:

    In January 2014, Manziel announced that he would forgo his junior season and enter the 2014 NFL Draft.[45] He was projected to be a first-round pick, and as of January 15, 2014, his draft stock was reported to be rising by a consensus of experts who had him pegged as a top-5 pick.[46] Manziel elected to throw during Texas A&M's Pro Day on March 27, 2014, instead of during the NFL Combine. During his pro day, Manziel completed 64 of 66 passes to six different receivers. His pro day performance was well received by sports journalists.[47][48][49][50]

    barkevious mingo:

    Mingo attended Louisiana State University, and played for coach Les Miles' LSU Tigers football team from 2009 to 2012. He was redshirted in 2009. As a redshirt freshman in 2010, he started one of 13 games, recording 35 tackles and 3.5 sacks. As a sophomore in 2011, Mingo was a second all-SEC selection after recording 47 tackles and 8 sacks.[4] As a junior in 2012, he played in all 13 games with 10 starts, and earned second team All-SEC honors after recording 38 tackles, 8.5 tackles for a loss, and 4.5 quarterback sacks. He also led the Tigers with 12 quarterback hurries.

    sure college numbers are great. i could go on and list AT LEAST a dozen more players drafted by some FO of the browns since their reinception just to show you it all means dick. what i hate the most is that most of us fans can see the talent within some of these players but yet, due to some scheme bullshit they aren't allowed to flourish within the brown's org. perfect example is jabaal sheard. do you think belichick takes away a player's talent by restricting him to play a position that he's never played before in his short football career? having mingo or sheard drop back into pass coverage isn't just silly it's fucking maddening. some times the coach needs to drop his clipboard and tell a guy "go get him!" maybe hue is that guy.....don't know. but just cuz we got some guys who had/have great numbers somewhere else doesn't mean we should all break out the happy dance.

    been there. done that.

    tom. love your enthusiasm brother. maybe a shot of that southern styled hooch might bring me around if i get a chance to roll thru tenn later for the tailgate and meet you droogs. until then.....

    "me, i'm just a lawnmower. you can tell me by the way i walk."

    It would be fun to get you down here Mik!

    Let's hope this front office bet on the right horses. I can't blame the current front office for what happened with Trent Richardson or Courtney Brown. But I can say instead of trading up to lose a pick for a guy like Richardson or placing all our marbles into Courtney Brown at #1 (ie; trading out of #2), the current front office traded back to add more picks to our overall draft volumes in 2016 and 2017 (inclusive of adding a 1st round pick next year) while rolling the dice on the productive prospects I spoke of.

    I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!"
  • DieHardBrownsFanD DieHardBrownsFan

    @miktoxic said:

    courtney brown:

    Brown attended Pennsylvania State University, where he played for coach Joe Paterno's Penn State Nittany Lions football team from 1996 to 2000. At Penn State, he was teammates with LaVar Arrington and Brandon Short. As senior in 1999, he was a first-team All-Big Ten selection, and was recognized as a consensus first-team All-American.[2] Brown earned the Big Ten Defensive Player of the Year and Defensive Linemen of the Year honors in his senior year. He was also a finalist for three national awards: Bronko Nagurski Trophy, Chuck Bednarik Award and Lombardi Award. He finished his college career with a NCAA record-breaking 33 quarterback sacks and 70 tackles for a loss.

    trent richardson:

    By March 2012, Richardson was widely projected to be a top six draft choice,[34][35][36] with the Cleveland Browns, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, and St. Louis Rams rumored to be most interested in selecting him.[37][38] Former Colts vice chairman Bill Polian called him one of the "three sure-thing players" in the 2012 draft.[39]

    johnny manziel:

    In January 2014, Manziel announced that he would forgo his junior season and enter the 2014 NFL Draft.[45] He was projected to be a first-round pick, and as of January 15, 2014, his draft stock was reported to be rising by a consensus of experts who had him pegged as a top-5 pick.[46] Manziel elected to throw during Texas A&M's Pro Day on March 27, 2014, instead of during the NFL Combine. During his pro day, Manziel completed 64 of 66 passes to six different receivers. His pro day performance was well received by sports journalists.[47][48][49][50]

    barkevious mingo:

    Mingo attended Louisiana State University, and played for coach Les Miles' LSU Tigers football team from 2009 to 2012. He was redshirted in 2009. As a redshirt freshman in 2010, he started one of 13 games, recording 35 tackles and 3.5 sacks. As a sophomore in 2011, Mingo was a second all-SEC selection after recording 47 tackles and 8 sacks.[4] As a junior in 2012, he played in all 13 games with 10 starts, and earned second team All-SEC honors after recording 38 tackles, 8.5 tackles for a loss, and 4.5 quarterback sacks. He also led the Tigers with 12 quarterback hurries.

    sure college numbers are great. i could go on and list AT LEAST a dozen more players drafted by some FO of the browns since their reinception just to show you it all means dick. what i hate the most is that most of us fans can see the talent within some of these players but yet, due to some scheme bullshit they aren't allowed to flourish within the brown's org. perfect example is jabaal sheard. do you think belichick takes away a player's talent by restricting him to play a position that he's never played before in his short football career? having mingo or sheard drop back into pass coverage isn't just silly it's fucking maddening. some times the coach needs to drop his clipboard and tell a guy "go get him!" maybe hue is that guy.....don't know. but just cuz we got some guys who had/have great numbers somewhere else doesn't mean we should all break out the happy dance.

    been there. done that.

    tom. love your enthusiasm brother. maybe a shot of that southern styled hooch might bring me around if i get a chance to roll thru tenn later for the tailgate and meet you droogs. until then.....

    "me, i'm just a lawnmower. you can tell me by the way i walk."

    All these pics (except for Manziel) were widely applauded by most on this here board.

    @diehardbrownsfan said:

    All these pics (except for Manziel) were widely applauded by most on this here board.

    The record spike in season ticket sales within a 48-72 hour period after Manziel was drafted, says he was widely applauded outside of this board. I'm not going to lie, I was excited we drafted him before I wasn't shy in voicing my disappointment in him about what he was prioritizing over football here.

    I remembered a lot of fans back on our first board that preferred Arrington to Brown. I was one of them. I posted up how Michigan refused to feed Courtney's backside clampdowns for losses by running right at Courtney Brown's olay/swim move throughout long, sustained scoring drives that allowed Michigan to dominate time of possession and beat Penn State. My feeling is NFL OCs wouldn't take long to discover a weakness like Courtney had against the point of attack coming at him. The majority of his TFL came from the backside clampdowns when he wasn't even blocked.

    I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!"

  • Wouldn't that be true of most TFLs for DL?

    Although I was excited by our '99 return, I had neither the time and the burning interest then to form an opinion on Courtney.

    TR? I was luke-warm on him. Did not mind the pick... thought he would fare better than the previous BAMA wunderback, Ingram (kinda whiffed on that one)... but hated the trade up for him. But even at #3 I thought there was better value on the board including a trade-down.

    JM? Pretty sure I am on record with hating that one... bore a hater-in-chief label as a result for a couple years. But I'm still here while nearly every labeler (libeller?) is not...

    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
  • Tour2maT Tour2ma

    Wouldn't that be true of most TFLs for DL?

    Although I was excited by our '99 return, I had neither the time and the burning interest then to form an opinion on Courtney.

    TR? I was luke-warm on him. Did not mind the pick... thought he would fare better than the previous BAMA wunderback, Ingram (kinda whiffed on that one)... but hated the trade up for him. But even at #3 I thought there was better value on the board including a trade-down.

    JM? Pretty sure I am on record with hating that one... bore a hater-in-chief label as a result for a couple years. But I'm still here while nearly every labeler (libeller?) is not...

    @tour2ma said:

    Wouldn't that be true of most TFLs for DL?

    Maybe with upfield 1 gap guys to an extent like Robert Quinn or Dwight Freeney for example. Bruce Smith made a lot of tackles for a loss on the playside as well as backside clampdowns vrs offenses that didn't hinge him off. For some reason, the NY Giants were intrigued by the SB matchup of Jumbo Elliot vrs Bruce Smith's upfield moves in the running game. 2 SB record length scoring drives exceeding 11 minutes and 13 minutes via 3 yards and a cloud of dust by OJ Anderson running behind Elliott at Smith for a larger percentage of time than anyone would have predicted turned out to be an ideal strategy for keeping Jim Kelly's No Huddle offense sidelined.

    That said, I've seen guys like Richard Seymore, Haloti Ngata, Brett Keisel, JJ Watt, Casey Hampton, Sam Adams, Tony Siragusa, Aaron Smith, T. Suggs, Kyle Williams blowing up countless playside runs in the backfield. Reggie White made countless tackles in the backfield on playside without olay moves. We had a pretty good running game in 2014; but JJ Watt stymied so many plays in our backfield on the playside right at/after the handoff well before our RBs had the chance for the cutback they were accustomed to making.

    Although I was excited by our '99 return, I had neither the time and the burning interest then to form an opinion on Courtney.

    In 99, we chose Couch over McNabb in the NFL draft and Scott Milanovich over Kurt Warner in the expansion draft. In 2000, we chose Courtney Brown over Lavar Arrington.

    TR? I was luke-warm on him. Did not mind the pick... thought he would fare better than the previous BAMA wunderback, Ingram (kinda whiffed on that one)... but hated the trade up for him. But even at #3 I thought there was better value on the board including a trade-down.

    That guy had a huge consensus of approval among the well paid draft analysts covering the draft and throughout the majority of mock drafts. I'm not sure why it was ever necessary to trade up with the team that had Adrian Peterson holding the 3rd overall pick but that's what we did like prior years. We traded up for Winslow when we could have stayed put or traded back for Ben Roethlisberger. We could have traded back for Aaron Rodgers instead of listening to Savage tell us Braylon was the safest pick in the draft at #3 overall.

    JM? Pretty sure I am on record with hating that one... bore a hater-in-chief label as a result for a couple years. But I'm still here while nearly every labeler (libeller?) is not...

    You're a lot better than I am. You thoroughly research the draft and treat us to some great write-ups. I was excited about Manziel's football skills and naive about how much the football would take a back seat to the out of control party animal. Living in Western, NY I saw first hand that an Irish party animal like Jim Kelly could still function and play QB in a game he loved. Therefore, I didn't think it would be any different for Johnny Manziel. I was WRONG! It's a good thing social media wasn't around when Kelly hit the Elmwood strip in Buffalo including some Saturday nights before Sunday home games. My Step mother who was VP of Nursing at Sisters of Charity Hospital in Buffalo prior to HIPPA said Kelly's girl friend (who is now his wife) showed up to their emergency room 3 different times badly beaten. My buddy who bounced at a bar said Kelly used to grab her and shove her around all the time when he got liquored up. It's a good thing some people change or grow up. Since then, he's done a lot of good stuff in the community, survived cancer with a wife that never gave up on "for better or worse"when she had countless reasons to. It seems like they arrived at the relationship she always wanted. Manziel came to us even younger than Kelly arrived in Buffalo. He only completed 2 seasons of college.

    I think we all wanted either Sammy Watkins or Khalil Mack over Justin Gilbert.

    I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!"
    Tour2maT 1 Reply

  • sure college numbers are great. i could go on and list AT LEAST a dozen more players drafted by some FO of the browns since their reinception just to show you it all means dick. what i hate the most is that most of us fans can see the talent within some of these players but yet, due to some scheme bullshit they aren't allowed to flourish within the brown's org. perfect example is jabaal sheard. do you think belichick takes away a player's talent by restricting him to play a position that he's never played before in his short football career? having mingo or sheard drop back into pass coverage isn't just silly it's fucking maddening. some times the coach needs to drop his clipboard and tell a guy "go get him!" maybe hue is that guy.....don't know. but just cuz we got some guys who had/have great numbers somewhere else doesn't mean we should all break out the happy dance.



    been there. done that.



    Mik: I'm your Huckleberry when it comes to this opinion. 😉


    FlugelF 1 Reply
    👍

  • love the quantity of picks this FO could squeeze out BUT don't you have to (sometimes) go all in on a player? i know the record for the browns is not good as far as picking from #10 up is concerned.......gonna have to do it again, soon.

  • FlugelF Flugel

    @tour2ma said:

    Wouldn't that be true of most TFLs for DL?

    Maybe with upfield 1 gap guys to an extent like Robert Quinn or Dwight Freeney for example. Bruce Smith made a lot of tackles for a loss on the playside as well as backside clampdowns vrs offenses that didn't hinge him off. For some reason, the NY Giants were intrigued by the SB matchup of Jumbo Elliot vrs Bruce Smith's upfield moves in the running game. 2 SB record length scoring drives exceeding 11 minutes and 13 minutes via 3 yards and a cloud of dust by OJ Anderson running behind Elliott at Smith for a larger percentage of time than anyone would have predicted turned out to be an ideal strategy for keeping Jim Kelly's No Huddle offense sidelined.

    That said, I've seen guys like Richard Seymore, Haloti Ngata, Brett Keisel, JJ Watt, Casey Hampton, Sam Adams, Tony Siragusa, Aaron Smith, T. Suggs, Kyle Williams blowing up countless playside runs in the backfield. Reggie White made countless tackles in the backfield on playside without olay moves. We had a pretty good running game in 2014; but JJ Watt stymied so many plays in our backfield on the playside right at/after the handoff well before our RBs had the chance for the cutback they were accustomed to making.

    Although I was excited by our '99 return, I had neither the time and the burning interest then to form an opinion on Courtney.

    In 99, we chose Couch over McNabb in the NFL draft and Scott Milanovich over Kurt Warner in the expansion draft. In 2000, we chose Courtney Brown over Lavar Arrington.

    TR? I was luke-warm on him. Did not mind the pick... thought he would fare better than the previous BAMA wunderback, Ingram (kinda whiffed on that one)... but hated the trade up for him. But even at #3 I thought there was better value on the board including a trade-down.

    That guy had a huge consensus of approval among the well paid draft analysts covering the draft and throughout the majority of mock drafts. I'm not sure why it was ever necessary to trade up with the team that had Adrian Peterson holding the 3rd overall pick but that's what we did like prior years. We traded up for Winslow when we could have stayed put or traded back for Ben Roethlisberger. We could have traded back for Aaron Rodgers instead of listening to Savage tell us Braylon was the safest pick in the draft at #3 overall.

    JM? Pretty sure I am on record with hating that one... bore a hater-in-chief label as a result for a couple years. But I'm still here while nearly every labeler (libeller?) is not...

    You're a lot better than I am. You thoroughly research the draft and treat us to some great write-ups. I was excited about Manziel's football skills and naive about how much the football would take a back seat to the out of control party animal. Living in Western, NY I saw first hand that an Irish party animal like Jim Kelly could still function and play QB in a game he loved. Therefore, I didn't think it would be any different for Johnny Manziel. I was WRONG! It's a good thing social media wasn't around when Kelly hit the Elmwood strip in Buffalo including some Saturday nights before Sunday home games. My Step mother who was VP of Nursing at Sisters of Charity Hospital in Buffalo prior to HIPPA said Kelly's girl friend (who is now his wife) showed up to their emergency room 3 different times badly beaten. My buddy who bounced at a bar said Kelly used to grab her and shove her around all the time when he got liquored up. It's a good thing some people change or grow up. Since then, he's done a lot of good stuff in the community, survived cancer with a wife that never gave up on "for better or worse"when she had countless reasons to. It seems like they arrived at the relationship she always wanted. Manziel came to us even younger than Kelly arrived in Buffalo. He only completed 2 seasons of college.

    I think we all wanted either Sammy Watkins or Khalil Mack over Justin Gilbert.

    @flugel said:

    You're a lot better than I am. You thoroughly research the draft and treat us to some great write-ups. I was excited about Manziel's football skills and naive about how much the football would take a back seat to the out of control party animal. Living in Western, NY I saw first hand that an Irish party animal like Jim Kelly could still function and play QB in a game he loved. Therefore, I didn't think it would be any different for Johnny Manziel. I was WRONG! It's a good thing social media wasn't around when Kelly hit the Elmwood strip in Buffalo including some Saturday nights before Sunday home games. My Step mother who was VP of Nursing at Sisters of Charity Hospital in Buffalo prior to HIPPA said Kelly's girl friend (who is now his wife) showed up to their emergency room 3 different times badly beaten. My buddy who bounced at a bar said Kelly used to grab her and shove her around all the time when he got liquored up. It's a good thing some people change or grow up. Since then, he's done a lot of good stuff in the community, survived cancer with a wife that never gave up on "for better or worse"when she had countless reasons to. It seems like they arrived at the relationship she always wanted. Manziel came to us even younger than Kelly arrived in Buffalo. He only completed 2 seasons of college.

    I think we all wanted either Sammy Watkins or Khalil Mack over Justin Gilbert.

    Thanks... I think so, too... 😉 ... sorry, could not resist...

    Seriously, my JM concerns were more on-the-field than off. All I saw was a playground QB who couldn't read beyond his first option and then scrambled with one hand up his ass searching for anything to pull out. Granted... that was one full ass, but it wasn't going to be at the next level where "excitement" is no substitute for competence.

    What that view did for me was lower the tolerance for any injury or off-field risk... and I saw more than enough for both.

    As for Watkins... I was all over him (took shit for that as well actually), but the moment Mack fell to us it was Sammie Who? I even posted "Holy Shit... Mack is there" in the tavern... then came the trade-down. Mack still on the board made that trade undoable IMO... but ultimately I held my nose and drank the fucking Gilbert-flavored Kool-aid. I've been sick ever since...

    I wish rehashes like this were more therapeutic...

    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
  • The GipperT The Gipper

    sure college numbers are great. i could go on and list AT LEAST a dozen more players drafted by some FO of the browns since their reinception just to show you it all means dick. what i hate the most is that most of us fans can see the talent within some of these players but yet, due to some scheme bullshit they aren't allowed to flourish within the brown's org. perfect example is jabaal sheard. do you think belichick takes away a player's talent by restricting him to play a position that he's never played before in his short football career? having mingo or sheard drop back into pass coverage isn't just silly it's fucking maddening. some times the coach needs to drop his clipboard and tell a guy "go get him!" maybe hue is that guy.....don't know. but just cuz we got some guys who had/have great numbers somewhere else doesn't mean we should all break out the happy dance.



    been there. done that.



    Mik: I'm your Huckleberry when it comes to this opinion. 😉


    @the-gipper said:

    sure college numbers are great. i could go on and list AT LEAST a dozen more players drafted by some FO of the browns since their reinception just to show you it all means dick. what i hate the most is that most of us fans can see the talent within some of these players but yet, due to some scheme bullshit they aren't allowed to flourish within the brown's org. perfect example is jabaal sheard. do you think belichick takes away a player's talent by restricting him to play a position that he's never played before in his short football career? having mingo or sheard drop back into pass coverage isn't just silly it's fucking maddening. some times the coach needs to drop his clipboard and tell a guy "go get him!" maybe hue is that guy.....don't know. but just cuz we got some guys who had/have great numbers somewhere else doesn't mean we should all break out the happy dance.

    been there. done that.

    Mik: I'm your Huckleberry when it comes to this opinion. 😉

    Mingo was getting rag dolled so much by Left Tackles in the NFL they had to be calling him Raggedy Ann in opposing film rooms. And when the underweighted edge rusher is also playing with an injured shoulder, why not get the levers of his 6'5" frame into a hook zone or the flats to challenge the accuracy of a passer? I've seen him intercept Peyton Manning in overtime giving us the ball at Denver's 39 yard line in 2015; and he either intercepted somebody else at our 1 yard line or batted the ball down on 4th down.

    BTW, Mingo wasn't exactly a sack monster at LSU. He only had 4.5 sacks his last year at LSU with 8.5 TFLs. Nothing about that said gotta-have in round 1 especially if you saw other prospects playing from the same draft pool. We made an epic reach for a 240 lb guy to take on NFL LTs averaging about 320 lbs. Before that, we took a guy like Greg Little at WR up in round 2 thinking all we gotta do is teach this guy how to catch and run routes. Is this Arena Football or the NFL? While we're doing that Cincy is drafting an AJ Green that already knew how to catch the ball and run routes in the SEC that was putting a whole lotta DBs in the NFL. That guy couldn't catch a cold in cold and flu season. His first 2 years starting here, we led the conference in dropped passes with him leading our WR Corps in those. And when it came time for the big guy to get the ball in a traffic, he turned into Danny Ferry. Let's not pretend their failures are all bad coaching. If you have start thinking about hiring David Copperfield to make a prospect work, you made a stupid draft choice at the draft. So yeah, I LIKE to see some evidence of guys being productive statistically before they come here rather than hoping we can just Dr Frankenstein them into something they haven't put on film yet. Having said that, Mingo finally got his off season weight up to about 260 lbs for the first time.

    Sometimes your FO, has to know what your coaching philosophy and are of expertise is. For example, HC Bill Cowher and former GM Tom Donahoe were not co-existing very well. Once they sent Donahoe packing to Buffalo for a couple cups of coffee, Pittsburgh eventually got good enough to make SBs and win them again. Classic example of compatibility needed.

    You better believe Scott Pioli knew what BB's philosophy and expertise was in NE when all that was taking off. In fact, Ozzie Newsome said he took everything he learned from BB in Cleveland and brought it to Rattymore. That's how you bring in guys ready to fit your systems. That said, BB began his gig in NE with a 4-3 and Ted Johnson playing MLB until injury volume to their d-line got BB back to his 3-4 comfort zone.

    If your WR Corps has the fewest TD receptions the last year or 2, you're against adding a prospect that was good at scoring TDs and won an award that called him the best WR? You'd rather find the next Greg Little? Okay...

    If you don't hurry very many passers in 2015, you don't think adding the prospect leading the country in sacks and the next best guy at it is a good idea? You'd rather find the next Mingo we can rewire more power, strength and instincts into? Okay...

    As for the Courtney Brown thing, like the Kellen Winslow thing, like the Braylon Edwards thing, like the FA LeCharles Bentley thing - history shows me and our new FO that putting all our marbles into 1 guy that can get injured might not be as good of an idea as what they're doing in NE seemingly every year with trading back for more picks (despite usually having less openings for starting spots). We just did the trade-back thing. If we were at a restaurant looking for a table for what we just drafted it would sound like this when we're talking to the Hostess: Cleveland - party of 14. We also added picks to 2017 inclusive of another 1st round pick which doesn't suck.

    It's okay to get excited about a different way of drafting guys and bringing in FAs than those that kept us ranking with anchors most of the time... What's my alternative? Getting pumped to watch re-runs of the Golden Girls or inviting Ghoolie over to watch the Hallmark Channel?

    I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!"
    miktoxicM The GipperT U 3 Replies
  • FlugelF Flugel

    @the-gipper said:

    sure college numbers are great. i could go on and list AT LEAST a dozen more players drafted by some FO of the browns since their reinception just to show you it all means dick. what i hate the most is that most of us fans can see the talent within some of these players but yet, due to some scheme bullshit they aren't allowed to flourish within the brown's org. perfect example is jabaal sheard. do you think belichick takes away a player's talent by restricting him to play a position that he's never played before in his short football career? having mingo or sheard drop back into pass coverage isn't just silly it's fucking maddening. some times the coach needs to drop his clipboard and tell a guy "go get him!" maybe hue is that guy.....don't know. but just cuz we got some guys who had/have great numbers somewhere else doesn't mean we should all break out the happy dance.

    been there. done that.

    Mik: I'm your Huckleberry when it comes to this opinion. 😉

    Mingo was getting rag dolled so much by Left Tackles in the NFL they had to be calling him Raggedy Ann in opposing film rooms. And when the underweighted edge rusher is also playing with an injured shoulder, why not get the levers of his 6'5" frame into a hook zone or the flats to challenge the accuracy of a passer? I've seen him intercept Peyton Manning in overtime giving us the ball at Denver's 39 yard line in 2015; and he either intercepted somebody else at our 1 yard line or batted the ball down on 4th down.

    BTW, Mingo wasn't exactly a sack monster at LSU. He only had 4.5 sacks his last year at LSU with 8.5 TFLs. Nothing about that said gotta-have in round 1 especially if you saw other prospects playing from the same draft pool. We made an epic reach for a 240 lb guy to take on NFL LTs averaging about 320 lbs. Before that, we took a guy like Greg Little at WR up in round 2 thinking all we gotta do is teach this guy how to catch and run routes. Is this Arena Football or the NFL? While we're doing that Cincy is drafting an AJ Green that already knew how to catch the ball and run routes in the SEC that was putting a whole lotta DBs in the NFL. That guy couldn't catch a cold in cold and flu season. His first 2 years starting here, we led the conference in dropped passes with him leading our WR Corps in those. And when it came time for the big guy to get the ball in a traffic, he turned into Danny Ferry. Let's not pretend their failures are all bad coaching. If you have start thinking about hiring David Copperfield to make a prospect work, you made a stupid draft choice at the draft. So yeah, I LIKE to see some evidence of guys being productive statistically before they come here rather than hoping we can just Dr Frankenstein them into something they haven't put on film yet. Having said that, Mingo finally got his off season weight up to about 260 lbs for the first time.

    Sometimes your FO, has to know what your coaching philosophy and are of expertise is. For example, HC Bill Cowher and former GM Tom Donahoe were not co-existing very well. Once they sent Donahoe packing to Buffalo for a couple cups of coffee, Pittsburgh eventually got good enough to make SBs and win them again. Classic example of compatibility needed.

    You better believe Scott Pioli knew what BB's philosophy and expertise was in NE when all that was taking off. In fact, Ozzie Newsome said he took everything he learned from BB in Cleveland and brought it to Rattymore. That's how you bring in guys ready to fit your systems. That said, BB began his gig in NE with a 4-3 and Ted Johnson playing MLB until injury volume to their d-line got BB back to his 3-4 comfort zone.

    If your WR Corps has the fewest TD receptions the last year or 2, you're against adding a prospect that was good at scoring TDs and won an award that called him the best WR? You'd rather find the next Greg Little? Okay...

    If you don't hurry very many passers in 2015, you don't think adding the prospect leading the country in sacks and the next best guy at it is a good idea? You'd rather find the next Mingo we can rewire more power, strength and instincts into? Okay...

    As for the Courtney Brown thing, like the Kellen Winslow thing, like the Braylon Edwards thing, like the FA LeCharles Bentley thing - history shows me and our new FO that putting all our marbles into 1 guy that can get injured might not be as good of an idea as what they're doing in NE seemingly every year with trading back for more picks (despite usually having less openings for starting spots). We just did the trade-back thing. If we were at a restaurant looking for a table for what we just drafted it would sound like this when we're talking to the Hostess: Cleveland - party of 14. We also added picks to 2017 inclusive of another 1st round pick which doesn't suck.

    It's okay to get excited about a different way of drafting guys and bringing in FAs than those that kept us ranking with anchors most of the time... What's my alternative? Getting pumped to watch re-runs of the Golden Girls or inviting Ghoolie over to watch the Hallmark Channel?

    @flugel said:

    It's okay to get excited about a different way of drafting guys and bringing in FAs than those kept us ranking with anchors most of the time... What's my alternative? Getting pumped to watch re-runs of the Golden Girls or inviting Ghoolie over to watch the Hallmark Channel?

    who's got a quarter?

  • miktoxicM miktoxic

    @flugel said:

    It's okay to get excited about a different way of drafting guys and bringing in FAs than those kept us ranking with anchors most of the time... What's my alternative? Getting pumped to watch re-runs of the Golden Girls or inviting Ghoolie over to watch the Hallmark Channel?

    who's got a quarter?

    @miktoxic said:

    who's got a quarter?

    LOL! I might if you have 2 tens for a five...

    I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!"
  • FlugelF Flugel

    @the-gipper said:

    sure college numbers are great. i could go on and list AT LEAST a dozen more players drafted by some FO of the browns since their reinception just to show you it all means dick. what i hate the most is that most of us fans can see the talent within some of these players but yet, due to some scheme bullshit they aren't allowed to flourish within the brown's org. perfect example is jabaal sheard. do you think belichick takes away a player's talent by restricting him to play a position that he's never played before in his short football career? having mingo or sheard drop back into pass coverage isn't just silly it's fucking maddening. some times the coach needs to drop his clipboard and tell a guy "go get him!" maybe hue is that guy.....don't know. but just cuz we got some guys who had/have great numbers somewhere else doesn't mean we should all break out the happy dance.

    been there. done that.

    Mik: I'm your Huckleberry when it comes to this opinion. 😉

    Mingo was getting rag dolled so much by Left Tackles in the NFL they had to be calling him Raggedy Ann in opposing film rooms. And when the underweighted edge rusher is also playing with an injured shoulder, why not get the levers of his 6'5" frame into a hook zone or the flats to challenge the accuracy of a passer? I've seen him intercept Peyton Manning in overtime giving us the ball at Denver's 39 yard line in 2015; and he either intercepted somebody else at our 1 yard line or batted the ball down on 4th down.

    BTW, Mingo wasn't exactly a sack monster at LSU. He only had 4.5 sacks his last year at LSU with 8.5 TFLs. Nothing about that said gotta-have in round 1 especially if you saw other prospects playing from the same draft pool. We made an epic reach for a 240 lb guy to take on NFL LTs averaging about 320 lbs. Before that, we took a guy like Greg Little at WR up in round 2 thinking all we gotta do is teach this guy how to catch and run routes. Is this Arena Football or the NFL? While we're doing that Cincy is drafting an AJ Green that already knew how to catch the ball and run routes in the SEC that was putting a whole lotta DBs in the NFL. That guy couldn't catch a cold in cold and flu season. His first 2 years starting here, we led the conference in dropped passes with him leading our WR Corps in those. And when it came time for the big guy to get the ball in a traffic, he turned into Danny Ferry. Let's not pretend their failures are all bad coaching. If you have start thinking about hiring David Copperfield to make a prospect work, you made a stupid draft choice at the draft. So yeah, I LIKE to see some evidence of guys being productive statistically before they come here rather than hoping we can just Dr Frankenstein them into something they haven't put on film yet. Having said that, Mingo finally got his off season weight up to about 260 lbs for the first time.

    Sometimes your FO, has to know what your coaching philosophy and are of expertise is. For example, HC Bill Cowher and former GM Tom Donahoe were not co-existing very well. Once they sent Donahoe packing to Buffalo for a couple cups of coffee, Pittsburgh eventually got good enough to make SBs and win them again. Classic example of compatibility needed.

    You better believe Scott Pioli knew what BB's philosophy and expertise was in NE when all that was taking off. In fact, Ozzie Newsome said he took everything he learned from BB in Cleveland and brought it to Rattymore. That's how you bring in guys ready to fit your systems. That said, BB began his gig in NE with a 4-3 and Ted Johnson playing MLB until injury volume to their d-line got BB back to his 3-4 comfort zone.

    If your WR Corps has the fewest TD receptions the last year or 2, you're against adding a prospect that was good at scoring TDs and won an award that called him the best WR? You'd rather find the next Greg Little? Okay...

    If you don't hurry very many passers in 2015, you don't think adding the prospect leading the country in sacks and the next best guy at it is a good idea? You'd rather find the next Mingo we can rewire more power, strength and instincts into? Okay...

    As for the Courtney Brown thing, like the Kellen Winslow thing, like the Braylon Edwards thing, like the FA LeCharles Bentley thing - history shows me and our new FO that putting all our marbles into 1 guy that can get injured might not be as good of an idea as what they're doing in NE seemingly every year with trading back for more picks (despite usually having less openings for starting spots). We just did the trade-back thing. If we were at a restaurant looking for a table for what we just drafted it would sound like this when we're talking to the Hostess: Cleveland - party of 14. We also added picks to 2017 inclusive of another 1st round pick which doesn't suck.

    It's okay to get excited about a different way of drafting guys and bringing in FAs than those that kept us ranking with anchors most of the time... What's my alternative? Getting pumped to watch re-runs of the Golden Girls or inviting Ghoolie over to watch the Hallmark Channel?

    @flugel said:

    Mingo was getting rag dolled so much by Left Tackles in the NFL they had to be calling him Raggedy Ann in opposing film rooms. And when the underweighted edge rusher is also playing with an injured shoulder, why not get the levers of his 6'5" frame into a hook zone or the flats to challenge the accuracy of a passer? I've seen him intercept Peyton Manning in overtime giving us the ball at Denver's 39 yard line in 2015; and he either intercepted somebody else at our 1 yard line or batted the ball down on 4th down.

    BTW, Mingo wasn't exactly a sack monster at LSU. He only had 4.5 sacks his last year at LSU with 8.5 TFLs. Nothing about that said gotta-have in round 1 especially if you saw other prospects playing from the same draft pool. We made an epic reach for a 240 lb guy to take on NFL LTs averaging about 320 lbs. Before that, we took a guy like Greg Little at WR up in round 2 thinking all we gotta do is teach this guy how to catch and run routes. Is this Arena Football or the NFL? While we're doing that Cincy is drafting an AJ Green that already knew how to catch the ball and run routes in the SEC that was putting a whole lotta DBs in the NFL. That guy couldn't catch a cold in cold and flu season. His first 2 years starting here, we led the conference in dropped passes with him leading our WR Corps in those. And when it came time for the big guy to get the ball in a traffic, he turned into Danny Ferry. Let's not pretend their failures are all bad coaching. If you have start thinking about hiring David Copperfield to make a prospect work, you made a stupid draft choice at the draft. So yeah, I LIKE to see some evidence of guys being productive statistically before they come here rather than hoping we can just Dr Frankenstein them into something they haven't put on film yet. Having said that, Mingo finally got his off season weight up to about 260 lbs for the first time.

    Sometimes your FO, has to know what your coaching philosophy and are of expertise is. For example, HC Bill Cowher and former GM Tom Donahoe were not co-existing very well. Once they sent Donahoe packing to Buffalo for a couple cups of coffee, Pittsburgh eventually got good enough to make SBs and win them again. Classic example of compatibility needed.

    You better believe Scott Pioli knew what BB's philosophy and expertise was in NE when all that was taking off. In fact, Ozzie Newsome said he took everything he learned from BB in Cleveland and brought it to Rattymore. That's how you bring in guys ready to fit your systems. That said, BB began his gig in NE with a 4-3 and Ted Johnson playing MLB until injury volume to their d-line got BB back to his 3-4 comfort zone.

    If your WR Corps has the fewest TD receptions the last year or 2, you're against adding a prospect that was good at scoring TDs and won an award that called him the best WR? You'd rather find the next Greg Little? Okay...

    If you don't hurry very many passers in 2015, you don't think adding the prospect leading the country in sacks and the next best guy at it is a good idea? You'd rather find the next Mingo we can rewire more power, strength and instincts into? Okay...

    As for the Courtney Brown thing, like the Kellen Winslow thing, like the Braylon Edwards thing, like the FA LeCharles Bentley thing - history shows me and our new FO that putting all our marbles into 1 guy that can get injured might not be as good of an idea as what they're doing in NE seemingly every year with trading back for more picks (despite usually having less openings for starting spots). We just did the trade-back thing. If we were at a restaurant looking for a table for what we just drafted it would sound like this when we're talking to the Hostess: Cleveland - party of 14. We also added picks to 2017 inclusive of another 1st round pick which doesn't suck.

    It's okay to get excited about a different way of drafting guys and bringing in FAs than those that kept us ranking with anchors most of the time... What's my alternative? Getting pumped to watch re-runs of the Golden Girls or inviting Ghoolie over to watch the Hallmark Channel?

    I am not discounting the fact that Mingo could actually, really turn out to be a bust. I just do think he should get more opportunity to rush the passer...and see what he can do there. While I think he is under utilized....it is also possible that he is just no good.

    And.....he WAS a Mike Lombardi pick......and that is NEVER a good thing for you to be.

    On your point about picking players who have proven production in college and translating that to the pros.....THAT is what this last draft was all about....fair to say. What did they get....the top 2 sackers in college this past year? The top productive WR. And other top college performers.

    Lets hope that the philosophy of taking top college performers translates to production in the pros.

    Is that analytics? It seems so absurdly simple.

    MudflyM 1 Reply
  • FlugelF Flugel

    @the-gipper said:

    sure college numbers are great. i could go on and list AT LEAST a dozen more players drafted by some FO of the browns since their reinception just to show you it all means dick. what i hate the most is that most of us fans can see the talent within some of these players but yet, due to some scheme bullshit they aren't allowed to flourish within the brown's org. perfect example is jabaal sheard. do you think belichick takes away a player's talent by restricting him to play a position that he's never played before in his short football career? having mingo or sheard drop back into pass coverage isn't just silly it's fucking maddening. some times the coach needs to drop his clipboard and tell a guy "go get him!" maybe hue is that guy.....don't know. but just cuz we got some guys who had/have great numbers somewhere else doesn't mean we should all break out the happy dance.

    been there. done that.

    Mik: I'm your Huckleberry when it comes to this opinion. 😉

    Mingo was getting rag dolled so much by Left Tackles in the NFL they had to be calling him Raggedy Ann in opposing film rooms. And when the underweighted edge rusher is also playing with an injured shoulder, why not get the levers of his 6'5" frame into a hook zone or the flats to challenge the accuracy of a passer? I've seen him intercept Peyton Manning in overtime giving us the ball at Denver's 39 yard line in 2015; and he either intercepted somebody else at our 1 yard line or batted the ball down on 4th down.

    BTW, Mingo wasn't exactly a sack monster at LSU. He only had 4.5 sacks his last year at LSU with 8.5 TFLs. Nothing about that said gotta-have in round 1 especially if you saw other prospects playing from the same draft pool. We made an epic reach for a 240 lb guy to take on NFL LTs averaging about 320 lbs. Before that, we took a guy like Greg Little at WR up in round 2 thinking all we gotta do is teach this guy how to catch and run routes. Is this Arena Football or the NFL? While we're doing that Cincy is drafting an AJ Green that already knew how to catch the ball and run routes in the SEC that was putting a whole lotta DBs in the NFL. That guy couldn't catch a cold in cold and flu season. His first 2 years starting here, we led the conference in dropped passes with him leading our WR Corps in those. And when it came time for the big guy to get the ball in a traffic, he turned into Danny Ferry. Let's not pretend their failures are all bad coaching. If you have start thinking about hiring David Copperfield to make a prospect work, you made a stupid draft choice at the draft. So yeah, I LIKE to see some evidence of guys being productive statistically before they come here rather than hoping we can just Dr Frankenstein them into something they haven't put on film yet. Having said that, Mingo finally got his off season weight up to about 260 lbs for the first time.

    Sometimes your FO, has to know what your coaching philosophy and are of expertise is. For example, HC Bill Cowher and former GM Tom Donahoe were not co-existing very well. Once they sent Donahoe packing to Buffalo for a couple cups of coffee, Pittsburgh eventually got good enough to make SBs and win them again. Classic example of compatibility needed.

    You better believe Scott Pioli knew what BB's philosophy and expertise was in NE when all that was taking off. In fact, Ozzie Newsome said he took everything he learned from BB in Cleveland and brought it to Rattymore. That's how you bring in guys ready to fit your systems. That said, BB began his gig in NE with a 4-3 and Ted Johnson playing MLB until injury volume to their d-line got BB back to his 3-4 comfort zone.

    If your WR Corps has the fewest TD receptions the last year or 2, you're against adding a prospect that was good at scoring TDs and won an award that called him the best WR? You'd rather find the next Greg Little? Okay...

    If you don't hurry very many passers in 2015, you don't think adding the prospect leading the country in sacks and the next best guy at it is a good idea? You'd rather find the next Mingo we can rewire more power, strength and instincts into? Okay...

    As for the Courtney Brown thing, like the Kellen Winslow thing, like the Braylon Edwards thing, like the FA LeCharles Bentley thing - history shows me and our new FO that putting all our marbles into 1 guy that can get injured might not be as good of an idea as what they're doing in NE seemingly every year with trading back for more picks (despite usually having less openings for starting spots). We just did the trade-back thing. If we were at a restaurant looking for a table for what we just drafted it would sound like this when we're talking to the Hostess: Cleveland - party of 14. We also added picks to 2017 inclusive of another 1st round pick which doesn't suck.

    It's okay to get excited about a different way of drafting guys and bringing in FAs than those that kept us ranking with anchors most of the time... What's my alternative? Getting pumped to watch re-runs of the Golden Girls or inviting Ghoolie over to watch the Hallmark Channel?

    @flugel said:

    trading back for more picks

    The key regarding picking early AND picking late: Everybody's picks suck. It's about volume, and hoping that you hit on more than you miss. Lombardi is a special GM.. in the way that you don't want to be, because whatever his decision is about something, that's guaranteed to be the wrong move.

    And really, don't talk about the Pats as a team with good drafting: They took a QB in round3 in 2016.. instead of a weapon for Brady to get another SB before he retires. They barely earned a C overall in 2016, and the past was no better with a lot of extremely questionable decisions. Their history really is not just "trade back" all the time. All the sports talk media around here has been ripping BB a new one.

    Yes, the Pats have been 100% with their first-round selections, but barely 50% after that.. It's almost impossible to replicate how awful the Browns have been at drafting the last few years.

    2014: Bitonio/Kirksey, the rest are terrible. 4 fails, 2 rd1. [6]

    2013: The best pick was Armonty Bryant in the 7th. It's 9am and I already want a drink. 4 fails, 1 rd1. [6]

    2012: Hughes in the 3rd. Benjamin 4, Schwartz 2 also have done well. Winn is depth. 7 fails, 2 rd1. [11]

    2011: None still on our roster. Sheard, Cameron are borderline all-pro; skrine is depth, the rest busts. 5 fails, 1 rd1. [8]

    2010: Only Haden still on our roster. Ward left. 6 of the picks were busts. 7 fails. [8]

    2009: None still on our roster. Mack left. 8 fails. [9]

    5 players still on the roster from the 6 drafts prior to the last 2. 35 busts out of 48 picks. That's apocalyptic levels of incompetence.. If 50% of the players from 15 and 16 are decent starters, that's an order of magnitude better than before!

    Fun: All 3 of the picks from 2015 cut so far by the Browns -- Olumu, Telfer, Mayle -- were the 3 picks the Browns got from the Cards to trade down instead of the Browns taking Rodney Gunter. Rodney Gunter started 11 games for Cards this past season at DT. So no, trading down is NOT always better.

    "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown

  • The Mingo pick scared the crap out of me, and I know many other fans shared a similar thought process. When I draft a pass rusher in the top 10 of the draft, I'd like to see him with more than just 4.5 sacks. We know Ray Horton likes to bring pressure, so hopefully Mingo will be able to thrive in this new system and make some plays.

    As far as "finding enough play makers", it appears as if the front office MAY have lucked out with a certain WR getting reinstated. Let's have fun with it and say that Gordon shakes off the rust during training camp, STAYS CLEAN, serves his four game suspension...and joins the ranks of our squad. All of the sudden, our WR group looks like Coleman, Gordon, Hawkins, Higgins, Pryor, and don't forget about Gary Barnidge and Duke Johnson.

    Man, looks much better than it did a few months ago, right?

  • The GipperT The Gipper

    @flugel said:

    Mingo was getting rag dolled so much by Left Tackles in the NFL they had to be calling him Raggedy Ann in opposing film rooms. And when the underweighted edge rusher is also playing with an injured shoulder, why not get the levers of his 6'5" frame into a hook zone or the flats to challenge the accuracy of a passer? I've seen him intercept Peyton Manning in overtime giving us the ball at Denver's 39 yard line in 2015; and he either intercepted somebody else at our 1 yard line or batted the ball down on 4th down.

    BTW, Mingo wasn't exactly a sack monster at LSU. He only had 4.5 sacks his last year at LSU with 8.5 TFLs. Nothing about that said gotta-have in round 1 especially if you saw other prospects playing from the same draft pool. We made an epic reach for a 240 lb guy to take on NFL LTs averaging about 320 lbs. Before that, we took a guy like Greg Little at WR up in round 2 thinking all we gotta do is teach this guy how to catch and run routes. Is this Arena Football or the NFL? While we're doing that Cincy is drafting an AJ Green that already knew how to catch the ball and run routes in the SEC that was putting a whole lotta DBs in the NFL. That guy couldn't catch a cold in cold and flu season. His first 2 years starting here, we led the conference in dropped passes with him leading our WR Corps in those. And when it came time for the big guy to get the ball in a traffic, he turned into Danny Ferry. Let's not pretend their failures are all bad coaching. If you have start thinking about hiring David Copperfield to make a prospect work, you made a stupid draft choice at the draft. So yeah, I LIKE to see some evidence of guys being productive statistically before they come here rather than hoping we can just Dr Frankenstein them into something they haven't put on film yet. Having said that, Mingo finally got his off season weight up to about 260 lbs for the first time.

    Sometimes your FO, has to know what your coaching philosophy and are of expertise is. For example, HC Bill Cowher and former GM Tom Donahoe were not co-existing very well. Once they sent Donahoe packing to Buffalo for a couple cups of coffee, Pittsburgh eventually got good enough to make SBs and win them again. Classic example of compatibility needed.

    You better believe Scott Pioli knew what BB's philosophy and expertise was in NE when all that was taking off. In fact, Ozzie Newsome said he took everything he learned from BB in Cleveland and brought it to Rattymore. That's how you bring in guys ready to fit your systems. That said, BB began his gig in NE with a 4-3 and Ted Johnson playing MLB until injury volume to their d-line got BB back to his 3-4 comfort zone.

    If your WR Corps has the fewest TD receptions the last year or 2, you're against adding a prospect that was good at scoring TDs and won an award that called him the best WR? You'd rather find the next Greg Little? Okay...

    If you don't hurry very many passers in 2015, you don't think adding the prospect leading the country in sacks and the next best guy at it is a good idea? You'd rather find the next Mingo we can rewire more power, strength and instincts into? Okay...

    As for the Courtney Brown thing, like the Kellen Winslow thing, like the Braylon Edwards thing, like the FA LeCharles Bentley thing - history shows me and our new FO that putting all our marbles into 1 guy that can get injured might not be as good of an idea as what they're doing in NE seemingly every year with trading back for more picks (despite usually having less openings for starting spots). We just did the trade-back thing. If we were at a restaurant looking for a table for what we just drafted it would sound like this when we're talking to the Hostess: Cleveland - party of 14. We also added picks to 2017 inclusive of another 1st round pick which doesn't suck.

    It's okay to get excited about a different way of drafting guys and bringing in FAs than those that kept us ranking with anchors most of the time... What's my alternative? Getting pumped to watch re-runs of the Golden Girls or inviting Ghoolie over to watch the Hallmark Channel?

    I am not discounting the fact that Mingo could actually, really turn out to be a bust. I just do think he should get more opportunity to rush the passer...and see what he can do there. While I think he is under utilized....it is also possible that he is just no good.

    And.....he WAS a Mike Lombardi pick......and that is NEVER a good thing for you to be.

    On your point about picking players who have proven production in college and translating that to the pros.....THAT is what this last draft was all about....fair to say. What did they get....the top 2 sackers in college this past year? The top productive WR. And other top college performers.

    Lets hope that the philosophy of taking top college performers translates to production in the pros.

    Is that analytics? It seems so absurdly simple.

    @the-gipper said:

    On your point about picking players who have proven production in college and translating that to the pros.....THAT is what this last draft was all about....fair to say. What did they get....the top 2 sackers in college this past year? The top productive WR. And other top college performers.

    Lets hope that the philosophy of taking top college performers translates to production in the pros.

    Is that analytics? It seems so absurdly simple.

    Didnt you go on and on about picking Bosa and, now, suddenly Ogbah and Nassib were great picks because they were the top 2??

    Im thinking Richardson, Gilbert and Johnny were all "top performers" too....

    Nothing about picking future stars is absurdly simple.....and the NFL draft history pretty much shows that......#crapshoot

    The GipperT 1 Reply
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