Grossi: Browns Will Not Take Crabtree
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on passing downs a tandem of Raji/Rogers in a 2-5-4, a 2-3-6 or some other incarnation would be a nightmare for an OC.....if we had the other players to pull it off successfully. mmmm kool-aid.
Too much specializing. If that worked everyone would do it. It does not work and thats why we have the 2 base types, 3-4 and 4-3.
Both base sets are a compromise of the other. I would say a 3-4 is better against the run and a 4-3 is better against the pass. The reason they don't specialize in say a 2-5 on running downs and a 5-2 on passing downs is because the offense can just do the opposite and everyone is out of position.
AdaM said:
Too much specializing. It does not work and thats why we have the 2 base types, 3-4 and 4-3.Both base sets are a compromise of the other. I would say a 3-4 is better against the run and a 4-3 is better against the pass. The reason they don't specialize in say a 2-5 on running downs and a 5-2 on passing downs is because the offense can just do the opposite and everyone is out of position.
who's talking base sets? as a Browns fan you should know all about Marty-ball, which obviously means i'm talking about the quarter/prevent type sets that are used quite frequently in games by teams with the right personnel.
If that worked everyone would do it.
if everyone had those players they might be doing it, but they don't and we do. remind me again how many teams have converted back to 3-4 in the last two seasons? not only is it more flexible, it's less predictable and w/ the right personnel you can hybrid into 4-3 and even 2-5 sets, like they did last year. 4-3 D-Lineman lack the bulk to flex into a 3-4.
a 5-2 team would probably have a worse record than the Lions did in '08.....but i think you meant a 2-5, right?
the league is constantly evolving and you need to evolve with it. and when you trace the evolution you find the ingenuity of the Paul Brown's, the Lombardi's, and the Bill Walsh's are part of the reason the evolution took place to begin with.
think about LT (the orig, not the guy they put in fresh in the second half of games after someone else wore out the D.) he is responsible for the way the game is currently played. it's time to break the mold again.
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So are we going Defense with #5 pick ? Im happy with us not having Crabtree. I would prefer if we trade down .... Maclin is a good offensive option ... how is the Kenny Britt dude ? Is he more the possession type or a BE type ?
So are we going Defense with #5 pick ? Im happy with us not having Crabtree. I would prefer if we trade down .... Maclin is a good offensive option ... how is the Kenny Britt dude ? Is he more the possession type or a BE type ?
He does have Edward's hands and lack of concentration, but he isn't as fast or athletic. Actually I really like Nicks, but he is a mid 1st round guy. I like Maybin as a 3-4 OLB over Orakpo, but he is also a mid 1st round guy.
There really isn't anybody that doesn't have some sort of question mark about them taht will be there to pick at #5, except maybe Curry. But, I see Curry as a stud 4-3 SOLB or a 3-4 SILB. I don't know how good of a pass rush you'd get out of him. But, I take him and find out because he is a total football player. You'd find the right position for him.
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I thought Quinn did 22 or 24. I know it was impressive.
But the guy has shorter arms and is a beast as far as QB's go.
Yeah I know he is, but it's ridiculous for a QB to be stronger than a D-Lineman. I mean come on, the QB's supposed to be the one being tackled by THEM....not vice-verca. Jackson needs to seriously bulk up if he plans on bringing down the Ben Roethlesbergers of the league.
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Again, how is it there is a source to leak that CLE did not like Crabtree, when reporters can't get any info out of CLE facilities.
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Again, how is it there is a source to leak that CLE did not like Crabtree, when reporters can't get any info out of CLE facilities.
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Ya I am quite suprised at the sentiment in this thread that Rogers can't play DE.
In an era of bigger stronger faster players, Roger's stands out and is among the leagues elite.
He will make plays from the end, he was running down and stuffing some sweeps from NT last year!!.
He's just one of those guys where you can line up right across the trenches and he will make plays.
It could turn out to be an advantage which is why I like Raji over Orakpo.
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Again, how is it there is a source to leak that CLE did not like Crabtree, when reporters can't get any info out of CLE facilities.
Masters said:
Again, how is it there is a source to leak that CLE did not like Crabtree, when reporters can't get any info out of CLE facilities.Here Mik
Tony Grossi's blog: Cleveland Browns passing on Michael Crabtree
by Tony Grossi/Plain Dealer Reporter Wednesday April 22, 2009, 10:41 AM
CLEVELAND -- The Browns have all but crossed off Michael Crabtree as a candidate for the No. 5 overall pick, said a source.
The Texas Tech receiver brought a diva attitude on his visit to the club facility last week and did not impress coach Eric Mangini and others, the source said. In fact, Crabtree was described by some in the building as "not nice." After Crabtree left, Mangini secured last-minute workouts with borderline first-round receivers Hakeem Nicks of North Carolina, Kenny Britt of Rutgers and Mohamed Massaquoi of Georgia.
* No, Derek Anderson did not have surgery on his left knee in the offseason. So why wouldn't Browns GM George Kokinis just admit it in his pre-draft press conference this week? It's a mandate from Mangini to not even acknowledge questions about surgeries. Mangini jumped all over Kokinis when Kokinis let it slip in an interview prior to the NFL combine in February that running back Jamal Lewis had routine arthroscopic surgery to "clean up" an ankle. Mangini does not even intend to speak the letters MRI if a player, in fact, has had the routine exam.
* Crabtree might not even be the first receiver taken in the draft. Seattle (fourth) and Cincinnati (sixth) are expected to fill greater needs on the offensive line. Oakland (seventh) is enamored with the speed of Missouri's Jeremy Maclin. Jacksonville (eighth) has been burned so many times by first-round receivers, they are gunshy to take another. It's quite possible that Alabama tackle Andre Smith, who turned off so many coaches at the NFL combine, will be taken ahead of Crabtree.
* Boston College defensive tackle B.J. Raji is back on the rise after reports of a positive drug test proved false. He's very much in the mix with the Browns at No. 5. Drafting Raji might result in more four-man fronts for the Browns. Also, Shaun Rogers would move to right end in the base 3-4 front. If the Browns pass him up, Raji is not expected to get past Jacksonville at No. 8 or Green Bay, for sure, at No. 9.
* New Orleans sees Ohio State's Malcolm Jenkins as a free safety and is expected to take him at No. 14.
* The first USC linebacker will go to Houston at No. 15. But which one? Either Brian Cushing or Clay Matthews, but not Rey Maualuga.
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I think the word we have crossed Crabtree off the list is smoke.
First, if we really didn't like the guy, we wouldn't release that, we just wouldn't draft him.
Saying we don't like Crabtree does a couple of things.
First, it helps in the Edwards negotiation. If we aren't taking Crab, that means we may keep Edwards, so anybody wanting him might need to up the ante, or it sends a message to Edwards and his agent we just might keep him, so they better start working with NY or whoever to get something done if he wants out of Cleveland.
It also sends a message to Sanchez lovers that we might be a real player for Sanchez, and if they want him, they might need to come to us on draft day.
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Mike Smith (Very familiar with Mangini from their time in NE) just said no way Mangini picks Crabtree. Said he's not a Mangini kind of player.
Take it for what it's worth.
I didn't like one thing I just heard Crabtree say. Wingo asked him if and what NFL teams may be saying to him as far as something he doesn't do now what is it that they'd like to see him do....Crabtree said they have said nothing along those lines and it doesn't matter because his dad is the only one he listens to when it comes to that kind of thing.
Huh?
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Mike Smith (Very familiar with Mangini from their time in NE) just said no way Mangini picks Crabtree. Said he's not a Mangini kind of player.
Take it for what it's worth.
I didn't like one thing I just heard Crabtree say. Wingo asked him if and what NFL teams may be saying to him as far as something he doesn't do now what is it that they'd like to see him do....Crabtree said they have said nothing along those lines and it doesn't matter because his dad is the only one he listens to when it comes to that kind of thing.
Huh?
Mike Smith (Very familiar with Mangini from their time in NE) just said no way Mangini picks Crabtree. Said he's not a Mangini kind of player.
Take it for what it's worth.
I didn't like one thing I just heard Crabtree say. Wingo asked him if and what NFL teams may be saying to him as far as something he doesn't do now what is it that they'd like to see him do....Crabtree said they have said nothing along those lines and it doesn't matter because his dad is the only one he listens to when it comes to that kind of thing.
Huh?
Just watched the interview. He started off in a good direction, kind of a "My dad's my toughest critic" kind of deal, then veered straight into a ditch. Really dumb thing to say right before the draft.
One thing I'd just note: Michael Smith said that the Browns won't take Crabtree at #5 because "that's not Mangini's style." It's unclear whether he was referring to Crabtree's character or simply the notion of taking a receiver that high. Or maybe a little bit of both.
EDIT: Later on, he said it was about drafting a receiver that high.
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Masters said:
Again, how is it there is a source to leak that CLE did not like Crabtree, when reporters can't get any info out of CLE facilities.Masters this was reported as being overheard from Mangini's mouth while Crabtree was in Berea working out.
AdaM said:
Masters this was reported as being overheard from Mangini's mouth while Crabtree was in Berea working out.First Adam, I don't think anything has come out of Berea. The only people at the workouts are coaches and yeam officials. So, none of them are going to say Mangini bad mouthed the guy because he would be gone.
Please believe all this is someones speculation and opinion. I don't know if the Browns like Crabtree or not and I don't think anybody else outside of Fort Berea does either. The same about Raji and his character issues or anybody else they are looking at.
Personally, I wasn't impressed with Crabtree's interviews. He is not a Rhodes Scholar, but he is a football player and probably no more a diva then Edwards.
I think about this. What is the organization plan and where does the team need to be at this time next year with needs? I don't want to have to go into the draft next year with needs at OLB, WR, SS, RB and Center.
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AdaM said:
Masters this was reported as being overheard from Mangini's mouth while Crabtree was in Berea working out.First Adam, I don't think anything has come out of Berea. The only people at the workouts are coaches and yeam officials. So, none of them are going to say Mangini bad mouthed the guy because he would be gone.
Please believe all this is someones speculation and opinion. I don't know if the Browns like Crabtree or not and I don't think anybody else outside of Fort Berea does either. The same about Raji and his character issues or anybody else they are looking at.
Personally, I wasn't impressed with Crabtree's interviews. He is not a Rhodes Scholar, but he is a football player and probably no more a diva then Edwards.
I think about this. What is the organization plan and where does the team need to be at this time next year with needs? I don't want to have to go into the draft next year with needs at OLB, WR, SS, RB and Center.
He is not a Rhodes Scholar, but he is a football player and probably no more a diva then Edwards.
Here lies the problem ytown. We don't need another Edwards.
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He is not a Rhodes Scholar, but he is a football player and probably no more a diva then Edwards.
Here lies the problem ytown. We don't need another Edwards.
Here lies the problem ytown. We don't need another Edwards.
You are absolutely right and I am not professing we take him. I am saying I don't think drafting Raji solves any of our needs. But, you never know what their plan is. I said in another thread that I think Nicks is one of the most underrated player in the draft. I also think Maybin could end up the best pass rushing/OLB (hybrid) coming out of this draft. But, both are mid first rounders, so please find a partner to trade down.
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Nicks is considered a late 1st/early 2nd guy.
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Aloysius said:
Nicks is considered a late 1st/early 2nd guy.Aloy...you do a lot of scouting and know the prospects pretty well. Is there THAT big of a difference between Crabtree and Nicks? I'm just thinking we might be better off getting the top rated defensive guy at 5 and then Nicks at 29 if he's still there.
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@jadbf said:
I tend to agree, and who will help him make that transition? Wimbley?
Crabtree lacks burst speed and pro reciever strenth to break free after the catch... frankly he is going to get hammered and may be a fumbler in the nfl..he may become paranoid of footsteps as well..ive said all along maclin is the better choice but he comes with his own set of risks..
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Here lies the problem ytown. We don't need another Edwards.
You are absolutely right and I am not professing we take him. I am saying I don't think drafting Raji solves any of our needs. But, you never know what their plan is. I said in another thread that I think Nicks is one of the most underrated player in the draft. I also think Maybin could end up the best pass rushing/OLB (hybrid) coming out of this draft. But, both are mid first rounders, so please find a partner to trade down.
. I am saying I don't think drafting Raji solves any of our needs.
You know I agree with you more often than not, but I don't understand that comment.
He makes the run D more stout, and his presence will improve the pass rush.
He himself isn't a great pass rusher, but he isn't bad. Take Rogers off the ball and play him at end or a traditional tackle spot if we go 4-3 some of the time, and his pass rush improves a great deal.
No one guy is going to block either one of them on any kind of regular basis.
I see it as a nightmare waiting to happen for opposing offensive lines.
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Aloysius said:
Nicks is considered a late 1st/early 2nd guy.Aloy...you do a lot of scouting and know the prospects pretty well. Is there THAT big of a difference between Crabtree and Nicks? I'm just thinking we might be better off getting the top rated defensive guy at 5 and then Nicks at 29 if he's still there.
Aloy...you do a lot of scouting and know the prospects pretty well. Is there THAT big of a difference between Crabtree and Nicks? I'm just thinking we might be better off getting the top rated defensive guy at 5 and then Nicks at 29 if he's still there.
Hard to say. The two of them have similar builds, though Crabtree has longer arms and Nicks has bigger mitts. Both have great hands, though I think Crabtree's more likely to get the tough grab in traffic or successfully high-point a ball. Both are also tough to tackle, though I think Crabtree has better body control and elusiveness in the open field.
But where the big issue with both guys is character. Both bombed the Wonderlic (Crabtree got a 15, Nicks scored an 11), but Nicks has also had weight/conditioning issues. After injuring a hamstring at the Combine, he packed on fifteen pounds and couldn't work out at his pro day. He's reportedly dropped the weight since then, but he's said to have been too out of shape to work out for the Ravens last Friday.
So while both guys have the physicality and great hands that usually limit a receiver's bustability factor, the character issues add some risk. I think Nicks' issues are more disconcerting: if he doesn't stay in shape, he could end up being a Mike Williams type. And while Crabtree may have some attitude issues, he shows a great deal of competitiveness and toughness on the field. He may not have Calvin Johnson's upside, but I think he'll be a very good receiver.
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