I turned Brown
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The Browns left Cleveland then changed their name. The Cleveland gets the Browns team name and uni's again. That's what happened.
....and look what they went it did to our uni's!
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Baltimore moves to Indy
St. Louis moves to Arizona
Los Angeles moves to St. Louis
Cleveland moves to Baltimore
Cleveland gets a new franchise
Los Angeles who moved to St. Louis moves back to Los Angeles
...certainly, in hindsight it looks like total madness.
....and look what they went it did to our uni's!
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Baltimore moves to Indy
St. Louis moves to Arizona
Los Angeles moves to St. Louis
Cleveland moves to Baltimore
Browns didn't move to Baltimore
Cleveland gets a new franchise
Baltimore got the new franchise.....again these are the Facts. Sorry if you are clueless about them. (and it would be better to use the name of the teams that did actually move....I don't think the earth shook and Los Angeles ended up in the middle of the country....the Rams franchise did move all those times. The Browns franchise never moved at all, ever.
Los Angeles who moved to St. Louis moves back to Los Angeles
...certainly, in hindsight it looks like total madness.
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"One said:
Don't forget about the Oilers moving to Tenn and changing their name as well.
And never forget who has the most being in their trophy case.
And never forget who has the most being in their trophy case.
The Green Bay Packers have the most. That is indisputable.
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Uhmm....the Browns NEVER left Cleveland. If you are to be a Browns fan.....know your facts about the team.
I don't want to argue here, but it took a court injunction to stop Modell from keeping the Browns name, 99.9% sure on that.
EDIT: Modell announced the move in November of 1995. The legal settlement of the "Baltimore Browns" was solved in Feb. of 1996, when Modell was unsuccessful in court and had to keep the "Browns" name in Cleveland, and he was awarded a "new" franchise.
It's semantics to me. He uprooted families of players, coaches, and staff....so yeah, the team moved. And we Clevelanders were vocal enough, somewhat lucky enough, to have this idiotic decision righted (except we get an ugly reminder twice a season to play those Ratbirds).
Go Browns.
I don't want to argue here, but it took a court injunction to stop Modell from keeping the Browns name, 99.9% sure on that.
Right....no one is claiming that there was not an "attempt" to move the Browns. Modell certainly did attempt to do so.
Modell was like Sara Jane Moore or Squeaky Fromme....they took their shots at Gerald Ford in an attempt to kill him, but missed.
Or, perhaps he is more like John Hinkley....he took his shot and wounded Reagan, but was not successful in his attempt. Modell....as history seems to show, wounded the Browns ....but he too was not successful.
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The Browns left Cleveland then changed their name. The Cleveland gets the Browns team name and uni's again. That's what happened.
No, it isn't. You lose this debate. You are entitled to your opinions, you are not entitled to facts that are not accurate.
Who left Cleveland? Art Modell, some of his FO, some of his players. Maybe some equipment. That is it.
The franchise stayed here. The operations of the Cleveland Browns stayed here (run by NFL appointed Trustee Bill Futterer). The Berea HQs never discontinued operating. (had a shorter staff because of no on field activity). There was no "again" in terms of the team name and uniforms etc. They NEVER went anywhere....always stayed with the Cleveland Browns franchise.
Sorry Cardinal fan if you are just learning this 21 years later, but those ARE the facts.
Whatever.No, it isn't. You lose this debate. You are entitled to your opinions, you are not entitled to facts that are not accurate.
Who left Cleveland? Art Modell, some of his FO, some of his players. Maybe some equipment. That is it.
The franchise stayed here. The operations of the Cleveland Browns stayed here (run by NFL appointed Trustee Bill Futterer). The Berea HQs never discontinued operating. (had a shorter staff because of no on field activity). There was no "again" in terms of the team name and uniforms etc. They NEVER went anywhere....always stayed with the Cleveland Browns franchise.
Sorry Cardinal fan if you are just learning this 21 years later, but those ARE the facts.
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Whatever.No, it isn't. You lose this debate. You are entitled to your opinions, you are not entitled to facts that are not accurate.
Who left Cleveland? Art Modell, some of his FO, some of his players. Maybe some equipment. That is it.
The franchise stayed here. The operations of the Cleveland Browns stayed here (run by NFL appointed Trustee Bill Futterer). The Berea HQs never discontinued operating. (had a shorter staff because of no on field activity). There was no "again" in terms of the team name and uniforms etc. They NEVER went anywhere....always stayed with the Cleveland Browns franchise.
Sorry Cardinal fan if you are just learning this 21 years later, but those ARE the facts.
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After the Modell left how many years did it take to have the Browns play another game in Cleveland. Ya that's what I thought.Yes, these facts are the What, and they are forever.
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After the Modell left how many years did it take to have the Browns play another game in Cleveland. Ya that's what I thought.Yes, these facts are the What, and they are forever.
After the Modell left how many years did it take to have the Browns play another game in Cleveland. Ya that's what I thought.
Three years. Again, part of the historical record. They went on hiatus until a few things could be accomplished: A. Find a new owner B. Build the new stadium C. Replenish the player pool. It was all agreed to and planned that way. Again, are you just now learning this?
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After the Modell left how many years did it take to have the Browns play another game in Cleveland. Ya that's what I thought.
Three years. Again, part of the historical record. They went on hiatus until a few things could be accomplished: A. Find a new owner B. Build the new stadium C. Replenish the player pool. It was all agreed to and planned that way. Again, are you just now learning this?
No just clarifying your honor.Three years. Again, part of the historical record. They went on hiatus until a few things could be accomplished: A. Find a new owner B. Build the new stadium C. Replenish the player pool. It was all agreed to and planned that way. Again, are you just now learning this?
So if the Browns had a franchise then why didn't they play anyone? They were playing in Baltimore dumbass. Lol
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I gotta go. Catch you later Gip.
I understand the love for the Browns stay in Cleveland. But the team left and changed their name. It's a sad thing.
Go Browns and don't call me anything else.
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No just clarifying your honor.Three years. Again, part of the historical record. They went on hiatus until a few things could be accomplished: A. Find a new owner B. Build the new stadium C. Replenish the player pool. It was all agreed to and planned that way. Again, are you just now learning this?
So if the Browns had a franchise then why didn't they play anyone? They were playing in Baltimore dumbass. Lol
No just clarifying your honor.
So if the Browns had a franchise then why didn't they play anyone? They were playing in Baltimore dumbass. Lol
No, dumbass.....you have no clue what a "franchise" is apparently. A franchise can and has existed even though it does not field a team. It has happened more than once in history. It has happened to the Rams, the Steelers...and even the Cardinals.
When an expansion franchise is created....it is still a franchise upon its creation. It may not take the field for a couple of years, yet that franchise still exists. Happened with the Jag/Panthers/Texans etc.
Not sure why you are so obtuse over this concept.
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I gotta go. Catch you later Gip.
I understand the love for the Browns stay in Cleveland. But the team left and changed their name. It's a sad thing.
Go Browns and don't call me anything else.
I gotta go. Catch you later Gip.
I understand the love for the Browns stay in Cleveland. But the team left and changed their name. It's a sad thing.
Go Browns and don't call me anything else.
Well, it didn't....and if you want to wager and lose your hard earned money to me, I will be glad to take it from you.
The Browns franchise stayed in Cleveland. A new franchise was created in Baltimore.
These are historical facts.....as much as is the fact that the North won the Civil War. An atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima. Lincoln and Kennedy were assasinated.
Historical facts.
Lemonade...its delicious.
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I gotta go. Catch you later Gip.
I understand the love for the Browns stay in Cleveland. But the team left and changed their name. It's a sad thing.
Go Browns and don't call me anything else.
Well, it didn't....and if you want to wager and lose your hard earned money to me, I will be glad to take it from you.
The Browns franchise stayed in Cleveland. A new franchise was created in Baltimore.
These are historical facts.....as much as is the fact that the North won the Civil War. An atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima. Lincoln and Kennedy were assasinated.
Historical facts.
Lemonade...its delicious.
Well, it didn't....and if you want to wager and lose your hard earned money to me, I will be glad to take it from you.
The Browns franchise stayed in Cleveland. A new franchise was created in Baltimore.
These are historical facts.....as much as is the fact that the North won the Civil War. An atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima. Lincoln and Kennedy were assasinated.
Historical facts.
Lemonade...its delicious.
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I gotta go. Catch you later Gip.
I understand the love for the Browns stay in Cleveland. But the team left and changed their name. It's a sad thing.
Go Browns and don't call me anything else.
Well, it didn't....and if you want to wager and lose your hard earned money to me, I will be glad to take it from you.
The Browns franchise stayed in Cleveland. A new franchise was created in Baltimore.
These are historical facts.....as much as is the fact that the North won the Civil War. An atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima. Lincoln and Kennedy were assasinated.
Historical facts.
Lemonade...its delicious.
Ok Gip you win.Well, it didn't....and if you want to wager and lose your hard earned money to me, I will be glad to take it from you.
The Browns franchise stayed in Cleveland. A new franchise was created in Baltimore.
These are historical facts.....as much as is the fact that the North won the Civil War. An atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima. Lincoln and Kennedy were assasinated.
Historical facts.
Lemonade...its delicious.
The Browns left Cleveland and moved to Baltimore then changed their name. If any record of the Ravens being the Ravens before the move I see your point. But hey Gip you're the man.
I like the Browns now and fuck the Cards, anyway you slice it don't doubt my fandom. Peace.
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No just clarifying your honor.
So if the Browns had a franchise then why didn't they play anyone? They were playing in Baltimore dumbass. Lol
No, dumbass.....you have no clue what a "franchise" is apparently. A franchise can and has existed even though it does not field a team. It has happened more than once in history. It has happened to the Rams, the Steelers...and even the Cardinals.
When an expansion franchise is created....it is still a franchise upon its creation. It may not take the field for a couple of years, yet that franchise still exists. Happened with the Jag/Panthers/Texans etc.
Not sure why you are so obtuse over this concept.
Ok so a franchise has no owner or players or coaches much less a stadium? No money or play an nfl game in three years. Yep I'm a dumbass. Hey here in virden il I dream of an nfl team so I guess I have a franchise.No, dumbass.....you have no clue what a "franchise" is apparently. A franchise can and has existed even though it does not field a team. It has happened more than once in history. It has happened to the Rams, the Steelers...and even the Cardinals.
When an expansion franchise is created....it is still a franchise upon its creation. It may not take the field for a couple of years, yet that franchise still exists. Happened with the Jag/Panthers/Texans etc.
Not sure why you are so obtuse over this concept.
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The way I recall it, Modell left and took some people with him. He left behind the name, colors and trophy case. The team didn't play for 3 years. Then returned to the field under the ownership of Al Lerner
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Ok Gip you win.Well, it didn't....and if you want to wager and lose your hard earned money to me, I will be glad to take it from you.
The Browns franchise stayed in Cleveland. A new franchise was created in Baltimore.
These are historical facts.....as much as is the fact that the North won the Civil War. An atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima. Lincoln and Kennedy were assasinated.
Historical facts.
Lemonade...its delicious.
The Browns left Cleveland and moved to Baltimore then changed their name. If any record of the Ravens being the Ravens before the move I see your point. But hey Gip you're the man.
I like the Browns now and fuck the Cards, anyway you slice it don't doubt my fandom. Peace.
Ok Gip you win.
The Browns left Cleveland and moved to Baltimore then changed their name. If any record of the Ravens being the Ravens before the move I see your point. But hey Gip you're the man.
OK, you are being foolish again. A. the Browns never left Cleveland....never changed their name.
The Ravens were a new franchise created in 1996....so,no, you won't see any record of them before then...just like you won't see any record of any other expansion franchise before they actually took the field.
I like the Browns now and fuck the Cards, anyway you slice it don't doubt my fandom. Peace.
I will try not to. Love and Understanding. What's so funny about that?
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Ok so a franchise has no owner or players or coaches much less a stadium? No money or play an nfl game in three years. Yep I'm a dumbass. Hey here in virden il I dream of an nfl team so I guess I have a franchise.No, dumbass.....you have no clue what a "franchise" is apparently. A franchise can and has existed even though it does not field a team. It has happened more than once in history. It has happened to the Rams, the Steelers...and even the Cardinals.
When an expansion franchise is created....it is still a franchise upon its creation. It may not take the field for a couple of years, yet that franchise still exists. Happened with the Jag/Panthers/Texans etc.
Not sure why you are so obtuse over this concept.
Ok so a franchise has no owner or players or coaches much less a stadium? No money or play an nfl game in three years. Yep I'm a dumbass. Hey here in virden il I dream of an nfl team so I guess I have a franchise.
Yes...sort of. It was held in trust...and being managed by a Trustee. They began a process for finding a new owner. (Al Lerner became the successful bidder...and he in fact owned the team for about a year and a half before it retook the field, taking over managment from the Trustee). They were in the process of tearing down the old and building the new stadium. They began a process of acquiring players.
But, no, they had money. In the interim the money was seed money provided by the NFL....then Lerner provided all the operating costs when he took over.
If you in Virden Ill.....have an official franchise charter issued to you by the NFL.....and if you had a headquarters building, and a training facility....as the Browns had and maintained all the time, then perhaps you could have had an NFL franchise.
Did you have that? Of course not.
I really don't think this is all that complicated to comprehend. Let me try this:
I can own say, a McDonald's franchise....issued to me by the McDonald's corporation. (McDonald's does have area franchises that are being held by corporate, waiting for people to buy the franchise). It is still a franchise, even if I haven't built the building, hired the employees, or fried a single hamburger yet.
YOU can't have that McDonald's franchise until you bid for it.
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The way I recall it, Modell left and took some people with him. He left behind the name, colors and trophy case. The team didn't play for 3 years. Then returned to the field under the ownership of Al Lerner
The way I recall it, Modell left and took some people with him. He left behind the name, colors and trophy case. The team didn't play for 3 years. Then returned to the field under the ownership of Al Lerner
Yes, Modell surrendered his right to the Cleveland franchise. The NFL awarded him the new Baltimore franchise....later called Ravens.
Name/colors/trophies are just accoutrements of the franchise itself.
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The way I recall it, Modell left and took some people with him. He left behind the name, colors and trophy case. The team didn't play for 3 years. Then returned to the field under the ownership of Al Lerner
The way I recall it, Modell left and took some people with him. He left behind the name, colors and trophy case. The team didn't play for 3 years. Then returned to the field under the ownership of Al Lerner
Sort of... leaving the franchise behind was not voluntary.
- On November 6, 1995... Modell announced in a press conference at Camden Yards that he had signed a deal to relocate the Browns to Baltimore in 1996.
- The City of Cleveland sued Modell, the Browns, Stadium Corp, the Maryland Stadium Authority, and the authority's director, John A. Moag Jr...
- After extensive talks between the NFL, the Browns, and officials of the two cities, Cleveland accepted a legal settlement that would keep the Browns' legacy in Cleveland. This was announced on Feb. 8, 1996.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_Browns_relocation_controversy#Announcing_the_move
https://web.archive.org/web/19961112100905/http://www.nfl.com/browns/agreement.html
Certainly Modell's original intent was to move the franchise. The name "Baltimore Browns" appeared in news articles.
Whether the franchise ever left depends upon how you view a very short window from the end of our '95 regular season on December 24th and the Feb, 1996 announcement of the settlement. I found some player transaction records in Jan, 1996, but the Browns team logo, not the name, were used to ID the organization making the moves. Modell also had offices in both cities for a period that included Feb, 1996.
A separate suit filed by Browns season ticket holders was not settled until 2001.
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Ok so a franchise has no owner or players or coaches much less a stadium? No money or play an nfl game in three years. Yep I'm a dumbass. Hey here in virden il I dream of an nfl team so I guess I have a franchise.
Yes...sort of. It was held in trust...and being managed by a Trustee. They began a process for finding a new owner. (Al Lerner became the successful bidder...and he in fact owned the team for about a year and a half before it retook the field, taking over managment from the Trustee). They were in the process of tearing down the old and building the new stadium. They began a process of acquiring players.
But, no, they had money. In the interim the money was seed money provided by the NFL....then Lerner provided all the operating costs when he took over.
If you in Virden Ill.....have an official franchise charter issued to you by the NFL.....and if you had a headquarters building, and a training facility....as the Browns had and maintained all the time, then perhaps you could have had an NFL franchise.
Did you have that? Of course not.
I really don't think this is all that complicated to comprehend. Let me try this:
I can own say, a McDonald's franchise....issued to me by the McDonald's corporation. (McDonald's does have area franchises that are being held by corporate, waiting for people to buy the franchise). It is still a franchise, even if I haven't built the building, hired the employees, or fried a single hamburger yet.
YOU can't have that McDonald's franchise until you bid for it.
Yes...sort of. It was held in trust...and being managed by a Trustee. They began a process for finding a new owner. (Al Lerner became the successful bidder...and he in fact owned the team for about a year and a half before it retook the field, taking over managment from the Trustee). They were in the process of tearing down the old and building the new stadium. They began a process of acquiring players.
But, no, they had money. In the interim the money was seed money provided by the NFL....then Lerner provided all the operating costs when he took over.
If you in Virden Ill.....have an official franchise charter issued to you by the NFL.....and if you had a headquarters building, and a training facility....as the Browns had and maintained all the time, then perhaps you could have had an NFL franchise.
Did you have that? Of course not.
I really don't think this is all that complicated to comprehend. Let me try this:
I can own say, a McDonald's franchise....issued to me by the McDonald's corporation. (McDonald's does have area franchises that are being held by corporate, waiting for people to buy the franchise). It is still a franchise, even if I haven't built the building, hired the employees, or fried a single hamburger yet.
YOU can't have that McDonald's franchise until you bid for it.
Lord, are we still arguing about this 21 years down the road? The simple way of looking at it is suppose Modell owned a McDonald's Franchise in Cleveland. He wanted to move everything to Baltimore. McDonald's says no, we'll grant you a new McD's franchise in Baltimore. The corporation takes control of the Cleveland franchise, and Modell moves all his employees to Baltimore to his new franchise. That's what happened in a nutshell. Some people still cant understand the difference between team and franchise. The Browns franchise never moved, and is still the exact same one since 1946. The Ravens were the expansion franchise, the 1999 Browns were an expansion team.
It's more than just semantics. I could pull 55 big guys off the street, and say I'm resurrecting the Dayton Triangles- I'd have a team, but I doubt the NFL would recognize me a a legit franchise.
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