I HATE RAY HORTON
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One note on Kirksey... he may not be the guy to be our lead ILB, but the other guy next to the guy. He had a three-play sequence vs. Cinci where he stuffed a run with a gap shot, sacked Dalton and then defended a pass 20 yards downfield. He has the tools.
... but (Garrett) didnr look no 270 though.
Next year qb and ol need to take precedent.
Agree... Garrett looked a lot leaner than 270.
Jury is still out on QB, but OL future looks promising if we find the answer at RT on our roster.
One note on Kirksey... he may not be the guy to be our lead ILB, but the other guy next to the guy. He had a three-play sequence vs. Cinci where he stuffed a run with a gap shot, sacked Dalton and then defended a pass 20 yards downfield. He has the tools.
Agree... Garrett looked a lot leaner than 270.
Jury is still out on QB, but OL future looks promising if we find the answer at RT on our roster.
Kirksey can be adequate If surrounded by enough talent. The Jackson comparison look to be correct.
RE: OL, you're not giving up on Erving yet Tour? I liked what I saw of Reiter until he got hurt.
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One note on Kirksey... he may not be the guy to be our lead ILB, but the other guy next to the guy. He had a three-play sequence vs. Cinci where he stuffed a run with a gap shot, sacked Dalton and then defended a pass 20 yards downfield. He has the tools.
Agree... Garrett looked a lot leaner than 270.
Jury is still out on QB, but OL future looks promising if we find the answer at RT on our roster.
Kirksey can be adequate If surrounded by enough talent. The Jackson comparison look to be correct.
RE: OL, you're not giving up on Erving yet Tour? I liked what I saw of Reiter until he got hurt.
Kirksey can be adequate If surrounded by enough talent. The Jackson comparison look to be correct.
RE: OL, you're not giving up on Erving yet Tour? I liked what I saw of Reiter until he got hurt.
lol... I think you first have to be up, to give up...
Offensive Tackle Reviews
- Cameron Erving: FSU (02-11-15) vs. OK St/ND - no kick; lotta waist bend; feet look heavy; fires out on run blocks; focus? Head? ND's DE Sheldon Day gave fits with low edge rush. I can see as an interior prospect, but would like to see tape on him there.
Once we had a serious look at him inside, it was too late. Even at, per some, his "natural" position of Center.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Kirksey can be adequate If surrounded by enough talent. The Jackson comparison look to be correct.
RE: OL, you're not giving up on Erving yet Tour? I liked what I saw of Reiter until he got hurt.
lol... I think you first have to be up, to give up...
Offensive Tackle Reviews
- Cameron Erving: FSU (02-11-15) vs. OK St/ND - no kick; lotta waist bend; feet look heavy; fires out on run blocks; focus? Head? ND's DE Sheldon Day gave fits with low edge rush. I can see as an interior prospect, but would like to see tape on him there.
Once we had a serious look at him inside, it was too late. Even at, per some, his "natural" position of Center.
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cant say Im a Horton fan(cause Im not)....but.....he has the same shit(or worse) that Oneill had.....and NEITHER coach is gonna get gold from this shit....
For the billionth time.....this team lacks TALENT....not coaching.....we are losing because of TALENT, not coaching.....our D sucks because it has no TALENT, not because of coaching.....
cant say Im a Horton fan(cause Im not)....but.....he has the same shit(or worse) that Oneill had.....and NEITHER coach is gonna get gold from this shit....
For the billionth time.....this team lacks TALENT....not coaching.....we are losing because of TALENT, not coaching.....our D sucks because it has no TALENT, not because of coaching.....
i look at horton on the sidelines and all game long, he's just shaking his head. Probably thinking the same thing you are mud...
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Of course talent is the issue. Its the issue all over the team. No coach can come in here and get these guys to beat other guys on the field that are demonstrably (for the moment) better than them. If these guys havent been properly developed in a few years than its coaching. But or FO traded down so we dodnt get joey bosa or any of the "ready right fucking now" mother fuckers. I promise you if it had been up to hue or horton we would have taken either one of those cocksucking twinkies or joey babosa. But haslem has structured this franchise such that the coaches arent the final shot callers on draft say. We shall see if this works out or not.
Me personally i like the idea of trading down for more picks if and only if the organization can prove they find later round gems and develop them. If we cant then we have yo take guys lime bosa or mack or watkins when its our pick. Please none of you act like vince lonbardi could come out of his grave and coach this up. Ghoolie is trolling you guys out hard
Of course talent is the issue. Its the issue all over the team. No coach can come in here and get these guys to beat other guys on the field that are demonstrably (for the moment) better than them. If these guys havent been properly developed in a few years than its coaching. But or FO traded down so we dodnt get joey bosa or any of the "ready right fucking now" mother fuckers. I promise you if it had been up to hue or horton we would have taken either one of those cocksucking twinkies or joey babosa. But haslem has structured this franchise such that the coaches arent the final shot callers on draft say. We shall see if this works out or not.
Me personally i like the idea of trading down for more picks if and only if the organization can prove they find later round gems and develop them. If we cant then we have yo take guys lime bosa or mack or watkins when its our pick. Please none of you act like vince lonbardi could come out of his grave and coach this up. Ghoolie is trolling you guys out hard
we never make the right picks...maybe 1 out of a fucking million and thats it...not enough to build a good team...this jets team is ripe for a pounding with their issues but i guarantee you we will get butchered this sunday....fucking washed up forte will probably get 150 on the ground and the bearded one will probably throw for 3 td's...oh well, at least we got the tribe..i knew francona would get them a championship...guy is a true winner...
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agreed, but my point was more about vet presence, not that anyone we've had on the roster in the past how many years has been top ten talent except the 2 joes.
we have no top 10 talent (except the joes, when healthy.....and they're both on the back end of their careers) on this roster. maybe kessler's #'s will disprove that. pryor and crowell are going to get shut down considering the Ds will key on them and i'm not at all suggesting they are top 10 even without that distinction.
for years now i've heard the old " we have so many holes to fill." "we have to draft a foundation for this team then build up." blah blah blah blah blah. ok, so these different FOs have been drafting foundation for the last decade but we still draft foundation every year?
GTFO.
I agree, and I think so does this front office. Where you're annoyed is that they cut Whitner, Kruger and Dansby - three aging, underperforming veterans on big money - and didn't resign Benjamin, Gipson or Schwartz.
They *should* have resigned Schwartz and Gipson, and keeping Benji would have been nice but he's replaceable.
Mack doesn't count - he wanted out for years and nothing we could have done would have stopped him, like Phil Dawson.
So the new group of veterans in, say, 2018 (it's all headed to being great in 2018 btw) we'll have on our team should be people like Davis (FA), Kirksey, Bitonio, Shelton, Campbell, Crowell/Duke, all will be in their fourth or fifth year, plus the existing guys like Thomas, Haden and maybe Hawkins.
I agree, and I think so does this front office. Where you're annoyed is that they cut Whitner, Kruger and Dansby - three aging, underperforming veterans on big money - and didn't resign Benjamin, Gipson or Schwartz.
They *should* have resigned Schwartz and Gipson, and keeping Benji would have been nice but he's replaceable.
Mack doesn't count - he wanted out for years and nothing we could have done would have stopped him, like Phil Dawson.
So the new group of veterans in, say, 2018 (it's all headed to being great in 2018 btw) we'll have on our team should be people like Davis (FA), Kirksey, Bitonio, Shelton, Campbell, Crowell/Duke, all will be in their fourth or fifth year, plus the existing guys like Thomas, Haden and maybe Hawkins.
they should have kept tj ward yrs ago also...whitner sucked...kruger was ok his first yr but went downhill and dansby has seen better days. gipson and schwartz is where we fucked up. Don't know what it is, but up to this point, from 99 to present day, this organization does not know football...they are really good at tripping over themselves.
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I am no fan of Hortons, but right now we have zero talent on D. None.
Bullshit! Each and every one excelled in college and know how to play their position. It takes the coach to plan the chess match and utilize that talent in the best way possible. Only once in a while does a player come in and Excell. That's your playmaker. Coaching is everything in the NFL. Horton couldn't coach here in the past, didn't do so great for 2 other teams and is back. Now he's part owner of an 0-7 record. He sucked then, sucks today and will suck tomorrow. Him and whoever thought he is some sort of great NFL DC should all be shitcanned. Patience my ass! When a good HC takes over, the changes are immediate and for the better. I have witnessed this happen several times before and will happen again. How's the ST play going? O line? QB life expectancy? D line? D backfield? 2 minute drill? Other than new faces, is there game day improvement anywhere? All I have seen is redefining the word suck!
Bullshit! Each and every one excelled in college and know how to play their position. It takes the coach to plan the chess match and utilize that talent in the best way possible. Only once in a while does a player come in and Excell. That's your playmaker. Coaching is everything in the NFL. Horton couldn't coach here in the past, didn't do so great for 2 other teams and is back. Now he's part owner of an 0-7 record. He sucked then, sucks today and will suck tomorrow. Him and whoever thought he is some sort of great NFL DC should all be shitcanned. Patience my ass! When a good HC takes over, the changes are immediate and for the better. I have witnessed this happen several times before and will happen again. How's the ST play going? O line? QB life expectancy? D line? D backfield? 2 minute drill? Other than new faces, is there game day improvement anywhere? All I have seen is redefining the word suck!
there is no improvement...in fact we are regressing...we lose to the jets sunday, we go 0-16....jets are so beatable now but with this shit team, i don't know how we do it....
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cant say Im a Horton fan(cause Im not)....but.....he has the same shit(or worse) that Oneill had.....and NEITHER coach is gonna get gold from this shit....
For the billionth time.....this team lacks TALENT....not coaching.....we are losing because of TALENT, not coaching.....our D sucks because it has no TALENT, not because of coaching.....
i look at horton on the sidelines and all game long, he's just shaking his head. Probably thinking the same thing you are mud...
i look at horton on the sidelines and all game long, he's just shaking his head. Probably thinking the same thing you are mud...
we never make the right picks...maybe 1 out of a fucking million and thats it...not enough to build a good team...this jets team is ripe for a pounding with their issues but i guarantee you we will get butchered this sunday....fucking washed up forte will probably get 150 on the ground and the bearded one will probably throw for 3 td's...oh well, at least we got the tribe..i knew francona would get them a championship...guy is a true winner...
they should have kept tj ward yrs ago also...whitner sucked...kruger was ok his first yr but went downhill and dansby has seen better days. gipson and schwartz is where we fucked up. Don't know what it is, but up to this point, from 99 to present day, this organization does not know football...they are really good at tripping over themselves.
there is no improvement...in fact we are regressing...we lose to the jets sunday, we go 0-16....jets are so beatable now but with this shit team, i don't know how we do it....
All I do is bitch52...Watch..understand.. then Bitch.1. Horton is mostly in what they call a booth.. 2. Due to a collection of dumb ass GM drafting. & 3. Piss poor GM's locking up our good talent. We have watched this FO 1. make fair offers to Mack & Schwartz & still lost 5 FA's past their control. 2.Knowing this team has "No Talent" & loss of FA's. Understood they had to pass on the best talent now, for the possible opportunity to land more Talent on your? team in future. They still may have landed on 3. #4--How the hell does Hartline,Whitner,Kruger,Gilbert & Manhell look now?..BTW--They tried to treat Gordon with class & he still took a sh*t on them.. You can't fix a Factory of Sadness in your 1st Season.. Guess, Some of us can start to see it & some just stayed locked in the Factory..Go Browns!!
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The tackle is just down right jr high. It is pathetic. It is as if they are trying to tackle their girlfriend in the backyard in a friendly game. And the Hail O Mary at the end of the 2nd half???? That should of NEVER happened. They should of gave up their game check just because of that play.
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The tackle is just down right jr high. It is pathetic. It is as if they are trying to tackle their girlfriend in the backyard in a friendly game. And the Hail O Mary at the end of the 2nd half???? That should of NEVER happened. They should of gave up their game check just because of that play.
The tackle is just down right jr high. It is pathetic. It is as if they are trying to tackle their girlfriend in the backyard in a friendly game. And the Hail O Mary at the end of the 2nd half???? That should of NEVER happened. They should of gave up their game check just because of that play.
No, the coach should have given up his game check for calling the assistive TO for Cincy. There is a reason idiota translates easily into English from Spanish & Italian. So all can recognize the obvious.
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Yes the TO was ef'n DUMB. That is like RAC all over again! SMH
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Screw Jim Oneil all his fault we can't pressure the QB
Screw Jim Oneil all his fault we can't pressure the QB
So I read this and just laughed and laughed.....
Just went back and read a bunch of old threads, with all the ranting about Oneills "scheme" and how the coaches made this D so bad by mis using players and having a bad scheme etc.....one poster(Cal) said the team would be 4 games better just by switching coaches......haaaaaaaaaahahahaha.....
After giving up on the battle, trying to convince the lynch mob that talent was the answer(not coaching), I posted......"I cant wait till they fire Oneill and when the new defensive coordinator still cant stop the run or win a game cause he has shit players, then ya'll can start blaming the new coach"...
And it didnt take long(at all)......(or course most of those people are completely awol right now.....and I also notice the board has zero chatter about "good" stuff, up and coming players, general sunshine pumping, great plays, etc.......why?......
So, which is it??......Horton sucks? Oneill sucks? the players suck?......all of the above?.......or blame it on Who?......anyone?
Haaaaaaaaaahahahaha....... it's so bad, it's become funny......
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Screw Jim Oneil all his fault we can't pressure the QB
So I read this and just laughed and laughed.....
Just went back and read a bunch of old threads, with all the ranting about Oneills "scheme" and how the coaches made this D so bad by mis using players and having a bad scheme etc.....one poster(Cal) said the team would be 4 games better just by switching coaches......haaaaaaaaaahahahaha.....
After giving up on the battle, trying to convince the lynch mob that talent was the answer(not coaching), I posted......"I cant wait till they fire Oneill and when the new defensive coordinator still cant stop the run or win a game cause he has shit players, then ya'll can start blaming the new coach"...
And it didnt take long(at all)......(or course most of those people are completely awol right now.....and I also notice the board has zero chatter about "good" stuff, up and coming players, general sunshine pumping, great plays, etc.......why?......
So, which is it??......Horton sucks? Oneill sucks? the players suck?......all of the above?.......or blame it on Who?......anyone?
Haaaaaaaaaahahahaha....... it's so bad, it's become funny......
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Screw Jim Oneil all his fault we can't pressure the QB
So I read this and just laughed and laughed.....
Just went back and read a bunch of old threads, with all the ranting about Oneills "scheme" and how the coaches made this D so bad by mis using players and having a bad scheme etc.....one poster(Cal) said the team would be 4 games better just by switching coaches......haaaaaaaaaahahahaha.....
After giving up on the battle, trying to convince the lynch mob that talent was the answer(not coaching), I posted......"I cant wait till they fire Oneill and when the new defensive coordinator still cant stop the run or win a game cause he has shit players, then ya'll can start blaming the new coach"...
And it didnt take long(at all)......(or course most of those people are completely awol right now.....and I also notice the board has zero chatter about "good" stuff, up and coming players, general sunshine pumping, great plays, etc.......why?......
So, which is it??......Horton sucks? Oneill sucks? the players suck?......all of the above?.......or blame it on Who?......anyone?
Haaaaaaaaaahahahaha....... it's so bad, it's become funny......
So I read this and just laughed and laughed.....
And it didnt take long(at all)......(or course most of those people are completely awol right now.....and I also notice the board has zero chatter about "good" stuff, up and coming players, general sunshine pumping, great plays, etc.......why?......
Ah... the good ol' days???
You may have missed the pumping sunshine stage during your hiatus.
As for the rest... maybe I just love swimming against the tide, but I'm seeing positives every week. You should read my posts sometime...
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Thanks, old friend, but I shit you not... I've really not had to put any effort into it.
Aside: The above may not be entirely true... the road trip to Miami may have invested me more in this season than past ones.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Thanks, old friend, but I shit you not... I've really not had to put any effort into it.
Aside: The above may not be entirely true... the road trip to Miami may have invested me more in this season than past ones.
Thanks, old friend, but I shit you not... I've really not had to put any effort into it.
Maybe Im just blinded by anger.....and NOW, only great players and wins will get me my sight back...dont know...
I promise, I positively did not choose to lose faith.....or hate what I see.....it just kind of happened on it own......
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Thanks, old friend, but I shit you not... I've really not had to put any effort into it.
Maybe Im just blinded by anger.....and NOW, only great players and wins will get me my sight back...dont know...
I promise, I positively did not choose to lose faith.....or hate what I see.....it just kind of happened on it own......
Maybe Im just blinded by anger.....and NOW, only great players and wins will get me my sight back...dont know...
I promise, I positively did not choose to lose faith.....or hate what I see.....it just kind of happened on it own......
Give it time brother. Good things are on their way. At the moment we're playing guys who probably won't be on our or any roster next year because we had too many holes to fix in one draft (some voluntary, sure). Meanwhile, here are some positives:
- Danny Shelton appears to be developing in to one of the better tackles in the league, and with some consistency will be right up there
- Jamie Collins! Woo! Assuming he plays to his level
- It looks like we might be switching to a 4-3 front more of the time. We've all said for a while this would be beneficial, and not trying to force Ogbah, Orchard and the rest in to new positions, but making the best use of the talent we have
- Speaking of Ogbah...
- Campbell can tackle.
- Carl Nassib has big arms!
- Pryor looks legit. Finally, a Cleveland experiment that succeeds, and he *wants* to be playing here (for Hue at least).
- Coleman also looks a quality player and is back in practice this week.
- The run game has been surprisingly good, if boom or bust, and that's with the patchwork OL we've had. Imagine how good it could be next year with better blockers, with Bitonio back.
- Cody Kessler looks far from the deer in headlights we saw in pre-season and looks like he'll be at the very worst a competent backup if not a starter (Brian Hoyer floor, Alex Smith ceiling?).
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