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Debunking common football 'knowledge'

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  • Emphasis on "looking for" since most of the article's cases are strictly addressed anecdotally.

    The article did cover our 2-pt/PAT debate covering nearly every angle we did excepting the impact on the Defense's approach of playing with a 9-point vs. an 8-point lead.

    Also just occurred to me that there has to be analytics on the chances of gaining two more possessions when kicking off with 2:00 to play and two time-outs.

    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196

  • All sports are full of media and commentators that used to play the game and that's what they know and how they talk about it. There are countless examples in soccer of a change in thinking being ridiculed before it became successful and no sport is exempt. As far as I'm concerned a bright mind is a bright mind and whether they were involved in baseball first is irrelevant, smart people draw the right conclusions in the end, no matter the situation.

  • There's analytics or just throw to an AJ Green or Julio Jones

    R 1 Reply

  • Kick the extra point when down nine to make it a one-score game.

    The Browns ran into the furor surrounding this unwritten rule a couple of weeks back, when Hue Jackson decided to go for two down 28-19 with 2:10 left to try to make it a one-score game. He failed. This essentially ended the contest: The Browns recovered an onside kick and scored a touchdown, but that was only enough to make it 28-26. They failed on a second onside kick try and subsequently lost.

    Let's flip that scenario and say the Browns kick the extra point first to go down 28-20 with 2:10 left. Then, let's say that the same stuff happens. The Browns recover the onside kick, score another touchdown, and then go for two and fail. They're in the same situation. They're down 28-26, but now, it's with 30 seconds to go. There is no time left to overcome their failed two-point play.

    The outcomes are exactly the same. If you get the two-pointer, you need only one score to tie, regardless of whether you get it early or late. And if you don't get the two-pointer, you need two scores to tie, regardless of whether you miss with the first attempt or the second one. The only difference between the two plays, as Chase Stuart first pointed out to me, is that teams who go for two and fail on their first drive have more time to adapt their decision-making for the fact that they've failed by getting more aggressive with blitzes or offensive playcalling. The team who goes for it late and fails has spent the preceding few minutes assuming they were going to get the two-pointer to tie.

    ---------------------

    I thank this article writer for saying what I said when it happened.

    If you go for two late...then there's no time left to even TRY anything else.

    BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE
  • F Furious Styles

    There's analytics or just throw to an AJ Green or Julio Jones

    @furious-styles said:

    There's analytics or just throw to an AJ Green or Julio Jones

    1 playoff win out of ten seasons of teams throwing to AJ Green or Julio Jones. Sounds fool-proof

    F MudflyM 2 Replies
  • R RoyceRolls

    @furious-styles said:

    There's analytics or just throw to an AJ Green or Julio Jones

    1 playoff win out of ten seasons of teams throwing to AJ Green or Julio Jones. Sounds fool-proof

    @roycerolls said:

    1 playoff win out of ten seasons of teams throwing to AJ Green or Julio Jones. Sounds fool-proof

    Sounds like a better plan than 0-4 preseason 0-7 regular season. Not foolproof but 11× better than 0-11. You're talking playoff wins ?.....how about winning ONE pre or regular season game FIRST ?
    R 1 Reply
  • R RoyceRolls

    @furious-styles said:

    There's analytics or just throw to an AJ Green or Julio Jones

    1 playoff win out of ten seasons of teams throwing to AJ Green or Julio Jones. Sounds fool-proof

    Youre both right.....😉

    @roycerolls said:

    1 playoff win out of ten seasons of teams throwing to AJ Green or Julio Jones. Sounds fool-proof

    Im in the WR's are accessories camp......cant thing of one example where adding a WR was the difference.....nor can I think of a recent SB champion that had a great one(that made a difference)....Seattle? Denver? NE?.....nope.....

    Defense......

    @furious-styles said:

    Sounds like a better plan than 0-4 preseason 0-7 regular season. Not foolproof but 11× better than 0-11. You're talking playoff wins ?.....how about winning ONE pre or regular season game FIRST ?

    Im in this camp too......0-11 is unbelievably bad.....horrible.....blech

    I remember being told(repeatedly) that "just changing the coach will get us 4 more wins"..........HA!....

    0-11....just turrible....

  • Does this remind anyone of 1999 again and the amazing win over New Orleans led by Tim Couch to get the one and only win that year, 1-15?

    Actually this team does have better talent or potential or whatever even with 18 rookies but let a few wins slip by earlier. Hopefully with a favorable end of year schedule might help if they have any standing QBs left.

    So what's the basic football 101 knowledge missing ingredients on this team? QB even though the "fill-ins" have played good enough to complete. Receivers have been adequate with a healthy Pryor, RBs OK with Crowell. Defense has been spotty, really miss a healthy old Haden.

    .....so it must be what's up front, the lines.

    GO BUCKEYES, BROWNS, INDIANS, CAVS, YSU, NAVY and yes I like ND!
  • mjp28M mjp28

    Does this remind anyone of 1999 again and the amazing win over New Orleans led by Tim Couch to get the one and only win that year, 1-15?

    Actually this team does have better talent or potential or whatever even with 18 rookies but let a few wins slip by earlier. Hopefully with a favorable end of year schedule might help if they have any standing QBs left.

    So what's the basic football 101 knowledge missing ingredients on this team? QB even though the "fill-ins" have played good enough to complete. Receivers have been adequate with a healthy Pryor, RBs OK with Crowell. Defense has been spotty, really miss a healthy old Haden.

    .....so it must be what's up front, the lines.

    @mjp28 said:

    So what's the basic football 101 knowledge missing ingredients on this team? QB even though the "fill-ins" have played good enough to complete. Receivers have been adequate with a healthy Pryor, RBs OK with Crowell. Defense has been spotty, really miss a healthy old Haden.

    .....so it must be what's up front, the lines.

    Defense needs help everywhere.....not one solid group on the team.....O needs a QB and linemen.......and the next TE....

  • MudflyM Mudfly

    @mjp28 said:

    So what's the basic football 101 knowledge missing ingredients on this team? QB even though the "fill-ins" have played good enough to complete. Receivers have been adequate with a healthy Pryor, RBs OK with Crowell. Defense has been spotty, really miss a healthy old Haden.

    .....so it must be what's up front, the lines.

    Defense needs help everywhere.....not one solid group on the team.....O needs a QB and linemen.......and the next TE....

    @mudfly said:

    Defense needs help everywhere.....not one solid group on the team.....O needs a QB and linemen.......and the next TE....

    All true....but there aren't enough quality guys to throw the ball to....and that muddies the waters in evaluating Kessler's future potential.

    BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE
    gftChrisG MudflyM 2 Replies

  • Odds are they win a game this year. What they really need is a great draft! No more excuses! Get a franchise player for once! How many have we passed on in recent drafts? The season is awful but we can expect the Front Office to trade away their top picks.

    DAMN THE TORPEDOES! FULL SPEED AHEAD!
  • OrionO Orion

    @mudfly said:

    Defense needs help everywhere.....not one solid group on the team.....O needs a QB and linemen.......and the next TE....

    All true....but there aren't enough quality guys to throw the ball to....and that muddies the waters in evaluating Kessler's future potential.

    @orion said:

    All true....but there aren't enough quality guys to throw the ball to....and that muddies the waters in evaluating Kessler's future potential.

    When everyone is healthy, there are enough targets, with Coleman, Pryor, Barnidge and Duke. Problem is, you can't have them all on the field every down.

    We really need to see more of Higgings and Payton before we go spending big picks on receivers, and Louis needs to show that he can get himself open and catch the ball. A lot of his stuff seems (to my untrained eye) to have come when he's schemed open or there's a breakdown in coverage.

  • OrionO Orion

    @mudfly said:

    Defense needs help everywhere.....not one solid group on the team.....O needs a QB and linemen.......and the next TE....

    All true....but there aren't enough quality guys to throw the ball to....and that muddies the waters in evaluating Kessler's future potential.

    @orion said:

    All true....but there aren't enough quality guys to throw the ball to....and that muddies the waters in evaluating Kessler's future potential.

    What does that say about the 4 WR's and 1 TE we just drafted???........we dont need anymore WR's just to see how Kess throws the ball....(mostly very short weak passes).....

    Either those 5 WR/TE picks were a complete waste or Kess aint the guy........

  • F Furious Styles

    @roycerolls said:

    1 playoff win out of ten seasons of teams throwing to AJ Green or Julio Jones. Sounds fool-proof

    Sounds like a better plan than 0-4 preseason 0-7 regular season. Not foolproof but 11× better than 0-11. You're talking playoff wins ?.....how about winning ONE pre or regular season game FIRST ?

    @furious-styles said:

    Sounds like a better plan than 0-4 preseason 0-7 regular season. Not foolproof but 11× better than 0-11. You're talking playoff wins ?.....how about winning ONE pre or regular season game FIRST ?

    So you believe adding Julio jones or AJ Green would keep the defense from giving up 30+ a game?

    Don't get me wrong, either of those guys on the Browns would be awesome, but good receivers on a team with a horrific defense and an uncertain QB situation will never win consistently.

    WRs are like windshield wipers. They are very important when it comes to your ability to drive, but no one worries about the windshield wipers on a car with no engine or transmission.

  • R RoyceRolls

    @furious-styles said:

    Sounds like a better plan than 0-4 preseason 0-7 regular season. Not foolproof but 11× better than 0-11. You're talking playoff wins ?.....how about winning ONE pre or regular season game FIRST ?

    So you believe adding Julio jones or AJ Green would keep the defense from giving up 30+ a game?

    Don't get me wrong, either of those guys on the Browns would be awesome, but good receivers on a team with a horrific defense and an uncertain QB situation will never win consistently.

    WRs are like windshield wipers. They are very important when it comes to your ability to drive, but no one worries about the windshield wipers on a car with no engine or transmission.

    @roycerolls said:

    WRs are like windshield wipers. They are very important when it comes to your ability to drive, but no one worries about the windshield wipers on a car with no engine or transmission.

    Were I still quoting individual posts...

    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
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